The movement is not awakening, all you are doing is spreading more baseless paranoia and suspicion. Why because americans run on fear. All you are creating will be a massive sense of dissapointment when people find out this is all false.

Vote National and buy bonds, they plough through the oppisition.

Rodney, please watch Loose Change Final Cut, Zero or 911 Mysteries, and view docos to the contrary, keep an open mind and please do not let the fear of practical implications influence your decision. I understand your arguments as I used to think the same, I don’t fall for baseless rumors.

Just like Gary the spammer troll before him, “Rodney” posts here to deride every article he comments on; and (just like the troll) he reads very little of what he slams. In fact, he is so much like Gary: the troll could stop posting tomorrow and his views would still be presented here by “Rodney.”

And, of course, “Roger” because they are the same person. Which can easily be seen by the following “exchange”

“Rodney” posts at 9:09 pm and “Roger” *replies* two minuets later:

“Have to agree with Rodney, weapons companies, war bonds AND Big Tobbacco the US Supreme Court are practically in bed with them so you will be fine.”
Posted by Roger | August 19, 2009, 9:11 pm

http://uncensored.co.nz/2009/07/29/when-the-going-gets-tough/

“Rodney” and “Roger” toy with readers at Uncensored just like Gary the spammer troll and the Israeli mole “alex search.”

“Rodney” is most likely Gary playing more games.

“Rodney” and “Roger” are bookends.

Tricks are being played upon readers of this site by people who despise the conspiratorial view of history, and have nothing but contempt for most of the articles posted here:

1) because they are too proud to admit they are wrong;

2) they are not bright enough to understand the truth presented at this site through articles and comments;

3) or they are debunkers-for-hire (and sport) on somebody’s payroll as they use interchangeable fake names to make finding out who they shill for impossible.

Very little time should be wasted with these imposters.
http://www.rense.com/general87/trolls.htm

http://www.rense.com/Datapages/new911data.htm

Well put, Phillip.

“Tricks are being played upon readers of this site by people who despise the conspiratorial view of history, and have nothing but contempt for most of the articles posted here:”

Aye – Contempt. Prior. To. Examination.

And they offer very little information beyond parroting whatever nationalistic drivel it was that they heard on Radio Talkback or SKY Sport.

“1) because they are too proud to admit they are wrong;”

For myself, I remember feeling more than a little humilated at being fooled so completely – once I realised that the official line was bullsh*t.

Oh and -angry- at having been lied to by murdering soulless psychopathic fucks.

On the positive side – I quickly realised that I didn’t have to be afraid of Muslims anymore.
Even despite the best efforts of asshole trolls to tell me different.

“2) they are not bright enough to understand the truth presented at this site through articles and comments”

Hence the ‘read more widely’ advice that tends to head their way a lot.
With the internet – that option is readily available to anyone who can be bothered.
Turning off One Network News or FOX or whatever total ass that passes for news that they are watching would also be a good forward step.
I’d cancel that Herald sub, too. Tabloids make you dumber than a street lamp.

“3) or they are debunkers-for-hire (and sport) on somebody’s payroll as they use interchangeable fake names to make finding out who they shill for impossible.”

Which (if true) is probably a pretty lame way to spend their lives …
My advice for them would be to go and spend some time alone in nature, find a nice hill to sit down on – and then have a bit of a rethink.

“Very little time should be wasted with these imposters.”

Agreed. As people, they are disappointing and uninspiring.

Don’t believe his nonsense, dear reader. Philip, Lorraine and ewingsc are all one and the same person. Look how they post the same ridiculous opinions. They even link to the same silly conspiracy sites over and over again. It is obvious that they one person on a disinformation spree.

Regards
Gary

Like I said, disappointing and uninspiring
and very little information offered.

Actually troll it is pretty obvious that we aren’t the same person, as even though we say basically the same things we have very different styles of delivery.

Like you Scott I am really angry that the majority of people watch and regurgitate the total rubbish they hear on the news as fact without any further investigation. The elites must laugh themselves silly when they see how easily people are manipulated into thinking whatever suits their current cause.

As I tell my husband the kids today are taught how to learn NOT how to think.

There was a movie on sky last night called The Happening which stared Mark Wahlberg. It was about some kind of biological attack that made people kill themselves. I bet that plot was the outcome of an elites wet dream.

Aye – It’s shocking to see just how easy people are to push around mentally.

That’s why its important to read – or at the very least, watch documentaries.

Not being lied to is almost a full time job

Actually Lorraine, it is pretty obvious that we (Troll, Rodger, Alex and Rodney) aren’t the same person, as even though we say basically the same things we have very different styles of delivery.

So up yours Phil.

In the nicest possible way,
Regards,
Gary

PS Lorraine, there is a difference between thinking and imagining conspiracies everywhere. You are not thinking, you are just delusional.

Fuck off and do something useful with your life troll.

… and start by watching this :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6cZLfK4Zjk

I normally hate shows like Top Gear, but shits like you need to be constantly reminded that we are all standing on a closed system.

And that means that we’re all in this together.

So don’t be such a fu@&en douchebag.

Wtc 7 NYC 9/11 was IMPLODED QED
Anyone care to refute Sir Isaac Newton.?
FIREFIGHTERS USA
Who do you trust, GW Bush serial liar & his friends or Sir Isaac Newton-Galileo’s proven laws of gravity-suspension momentum etc.?
(WHILST SECRECY PREVAILS DEMOCRACY WITHERS & FAILS jc.)
http://firefightersfor911truth.org/?cat=11
This work is dedicated to Chief of Department Peter J. Ganci Jr. and his

342 fellow F.D.N.Y. members killed in action while trying to save others.

Summary of Evidence of Controlled Demolition at the World Trade Center

(Expansive citations below)
This article appeared originally at FireFightersFor911Truth.org and is the intellectual property of David R. Wayne & Greg Garrison C2008 with
all use permissions hereby granted provided that all copies include this notice of authorship.

The evidence summarized below proves conclusively that 3 World Trade

Center buildings collapsed on 9/11/2001 as the result of controlled demolitions. It makes no attempt to determine why, or to imply by whom.
From a scientific standpoint, it is inadvisable to leap to conclusions because there are always scenarios we may not be prepared to imagine. In science, as in life, an open mind is a good thing. It is conceivable that there was a bio-threat airborne in the CIA undercover New York
station in Building capable of wiping out 20 million people if it
wasn’t immediately neutralized by the use of Thermate. Although that is
unlikely, it remains possible and therefore, scientifically, it stands
as an unknown, as do many other unknowns.——–etc etc

Respectfully,John Cameron Australia ae911truth.org RSVP

For the videos, please visit the site: http://firefightersfor911truth.org/?cat=11

Im not Rodney,Troll,Gary etc Im Roger!
The fact that you say we are the same people is hilarious because it shows that you cannot accept that more than one person disagrees with you.
Hahahaha An awakening? From what a coma for 50 years. And i agree we do have different deliveries a tend to accuse you of being a filthy communist and the others have their own special ways.
Regards Roger.

Before I leave Vote National who surprisingly are diiferent to the BNP.

I’ve been researching 911 since the day it happened and my opinions have changed throughout that time as more evidence comes to light.Its now proven that no planes were in evidence at any of the 4 crash sites..please show me the evidence of plane wreckage if you disagree…we have masses of wreckage from the Lockerbie plane bombing and massive ground destruction and crater..so why none at pentagon,shanksville and twin towers.?Please no silly vapourising comments.
Anyway now that matter is resolved its time to question how can 2 hundred story buildings[WTC]leave hardly any rubble pile after dustifying in 10 seconds..yes they did turn to dust..the streets around were thick with dust.The bath tub complex beneath the towers was still intact…which defies logic if it had been a normal controlled demolition..the weight of material would have crushed it…so what is the explanation? I advise that you make a thorough study of http://www.drjudywood.com ’s work to get the real 911 truth

or you can read probably the best book on 911 by Andrew Johnson

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-9-11-BOOK-BY-ANDREW-JOHNSON-PLUS-FREE-911-DVD_W0QQitemZ230365569214QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CDsDVDs_DVDs_DVDs_GL?hash=item35a2dba0be&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

his website is http://www.checktheevidence.com

Here is a readers comment about the book:

9-11 – Finding the Truth
What really happened on 9/11? What can the evidence tell us? Who is covering up the evidence, and why are they covering it up? This book attempts to give some answers to these questions and has been written by someone who has become deeply involved in research into what happened on 9/11. A study of the available evidence will challenge you and much of what you assumed to be true. “Now we are discovering that there is a highly-sophisticated black-ops weaponization of free energy technology and it was responsible for the bizarre, low-temperature pulverization of the Twin Towers. Dr. Judy Wood has pieced together the physical evidence and Andrew Johnson has highlighted who is working to silence or smear whom, as the powers that be rush to impede or at least contain the dissemination of these startling findings.” – Conrado Salas Cano, M.S. in Physics.

I believed the official story for almost 3 years. Then I found out certain things and got to know others who had found out certain things – we knew the official story was false.

Then, thanks to Dr Judy Wood I found out about things like Hurricane Erin being closest to NYC at 8am on 9/11. Other people don’t want to talk about this. They also don’t want to talk about something called the Hutchison Effect in relation to 9/11.

I found out they were so very uncomfortable talking about things like this, I had to write a book about it. It includes a discussion of all the evidence that will show you that (a) The official story of 9/11 is completely false and (b) the 9/11 “Truth” Movement is essentially designed to cover up, muddle up and suppress discussion of the evidence mentioned above.

http://tinyurl.com/911hestudy

http://tinyurl.com/911erinstudy

20 minute video covering the main evidence.

http://tinyurl.com/911key

Free download (310 pages)

http://tinyurl.com/911book

Just come across this, looks interesting.

The Battelle National Biodefense Institute was selected by the U.S. Department of Homeland Security in 2006 to manage the new National Biodefense Analysis & Countermeasures Center (NBACC), a Federally Funded Research and Development Center. The NBACC, scheduled to open in 2008, will be the nation’s premier research facility for biological threat characterization and bioforensic research. The lab, which will employ approximately 120 people, is under construction in Frederick, Maryland at Fort Detrick. The 160,000-square-foot facility will become part of the biodefense campus that includes the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases and the U.S. Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases.

National Biodefense Analysis and Countermeasures Center

Other US National Laboratories Managed by Battelle:

Brookhaven National Laboratory
Idaho National Laboratory
Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory **
National Renewable Energy Laboratory
Oak Ridge National Laboratory **
Pacific Northwest National Laboratory-Seattle, WA

** Implicated, along with Naval Weapons Testing Laboratory at Indian Head, Maryland, in helping to develop the nanothermite found in recent forensic analysis of debris from the Twin Towers implicating the US military and scientists/engineers from the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) in the 9/11 terrorist attacks.
Part of the top-secret research done at these national/military laboratories was on highly explosive nanothermite coatings that could be disguised as paint. These would have had the capacity to be remotely activated by directed energy weapons such as magnetic lasers (masers), thus possibly supporting the premise of the lawsuit brought by Dr. Judy Wood against NIST, asserting that such DEWs were indeed used, and reconciling the two camps in the 9/11 Truth movement that diverged over the thermite versus DEWs hypotheses.
http://www.battelle.org/LABMANAGEMENT/lawrencel.aspx

Board of Directors-Battelle Memorial Institute

Bernadine P. Healy MD-Former Director-NIH (Over CDC/NIAID)
during Clinton administration;
Senior Health Columnist-Newsweek and other
major corporate-controlled media publications

Lester L. Lyles- Also on Board of Directors-KBR/Halliburton,
of which Cheney was CEO, major military con-
tractor being investigated for massive fraud
on no-bid contracts in Iraq; also received
no-bid contract in 2002 from Bush admini-
stration to build FEMA concentration camps
thruout US.

Robert D. Walter Informally connected with the Bush crime family thru
the Carlyle Group.

Russell A. Hulse Career Battelle minions
Sean O’Keefe
Vicky A. Bailey

Scalar Energy – A Completely
New World Is Possible

By Bill Morgan
wmorgan@nycap.rr.com
7-22-3

The greatest scientific discovery in the history of the world has happened over the last few decades and it has gone largely unnoticed because of the great secrecy with which it has been held by all who know of it. It is the discovery of a completely new kind of electomagnetic waves which exist only in the vacuum of empty space, the empty space between the atoms of our bodies as well as the empty space we see in sky at night. All of empty space.

These waves constitute a kind of ocean of infinite energy, and it has now been discovered that this abundant energy can be coaxed to pour into our 3-dimensional world from their 4-dimensional realm, to be used to do work, provide electricity, power all transport, and even heal the body of almost all disease. This is the new world of scalar electromagnetics, the zero-point energy, the energy of the absolute nothingness which existed before the world began.

To understand the incredible implications of this phenomenal discovery is to realize that a completely New World is possible for mankind, a future never before dreamed possible. It could be a world of abundance everywhere, of endless free energy, pollution-free, and a world of cheap universal healthcare, in which actual healing takes place instead of mere treatment, and for most ailments, without the load of chemicals of the pharmaceutical industry. It could be a world in which a huge portion of this world’s massive suffering could be relieved.

These new waves of energy are called “longitudinal” EM (electromagnetism) to distinguish them from “transverse” EM, the kind we are familiar with in our daily life, which power our cell phones and pagers, television and radio broadcasts, microwave ovens, and so on. Rather than modulating in 3-dimensions they are modulating in the direction they are going, accordian-like, that is, along the axis of time, the 4th dimension. What this means is still a mystery to me, but one important facet of this new discovery in the new field of “scalar electromagnetics” is the discovery that time itself is compressed energy, compressed by the factor of the speed-of-light-squared. Does that sound familiar? It brings to mind Einstein’s E = mc2. Matter itself is also compressed energy, and compressed by the same factor as scalar energy is compressed in time. So the discovery of scalar electromagnetics is that we can tap and use the immense energy existing in the ocean of time.

This amazing discovery is announced and described by foremost U.S. scalar scientist Tom Bearden on his website Cheniere.org. I spent about six months poring over the papers and briefings there, despite being a layman and not understanding the high physics and mathematical formulas of it. But I could glean enough to know that, if Bearden is correct, this discovery of the zero-point energy was in fact and without doubt the greatest discovery in human history.

This discovery will completely change our understanding of physical and “non-physical” reality. And it could lead to heaven, and it could lead to hell, because the incredible powers of these new longitudinal waves can, and already HAVE BEEN harnessed in the creation of the most stupendous weapons the world has ever seen. The least of them, the longitudinal interferometer or “Tesla howitzer,” could bring down, in a single shot, a huge building the size, say, the World Trade Center towers, and is being used daily to engineer and change the weather over North America. The Russians are probably the most advanced in the development of these kinds of weapons, but the Chinese are catching up as well. Once you have the know-how building a Tesla howitzer is relatively cheap, the key is in the know-how, knowing how to manipulate, modulate and intersect the longitudinal waves at-a-distance. You can be anywhere in the world and deliver a shot to anywhere else in the world with a Tesla howitzer. All nations now developing these new electromagnetic weapons do so in great secrecy, so mankind at large remains unaware of the danger into which it has fallen.

It should be noted that this discovery of the longitudinal waves of the vacuum of space is not so new as it might seem. Nikola Tesla is generally considered the father of scalar electromagnetics. Tesla’s name for this energy, also called “scalar energy” or “zero-point” energy was “Radiant Energy.” Tesla worked in the first half of the last century and was clearly a genius of the highest order. Unfortunately Tesla was quite paranoid about others stealing his inventions and so, with his photographic memory, kept most of what he knew in his head rather than write it down. But he made a free energy device called the “Tesla turbine,” and even converted an automobile to run on the “radiant energy.” At Tesla’s death the government swooped in immediately and confiscated what writings and papers there were. So, many of Tesla’s secrets were lost to humanity, and in fact, repressed by the powers that be. Even at that early period there were powerful interests working to keep these discoveries secret. The last thing the oil companies or the energy cartels want is free energy for everybody! That would mean their own demise.

Through scalar electromagnetics it will become possible to engineer physical reality directly, even to engineering at the molecular level, creating new “impossible” molecules and even transmuting elements. It will be possible to make radioactive waste non-radioactive. This new science will unlock the secret of gravity, and thereby the secret of anti-gravity allowing us to manufacture our own “UFOs.” It will allow the cure of cancer and Aids. I guess if I had to name the four most important implications of the discovery of longitudinal waves it would be these:

1. The solutions to the energy crisis and the “oil problem” are in hand. These oil-wars are completely unnecessary. There is endless energy available freely from the domain of time.

2. Unbelievably powerful weapons are not only possible, but are already operating in several nations. The many powers of these weapons are unprecedented and mind-boggling.

3. The cure of diseases such as cancer and AIDS, in fact nearly any disease, has become possible within a few years of sufficient funding. Everyone can be made healthy and stay healthy.

4. Mind control on a mass scale has now become possible, and the machines to do it are already in place in certain nations. It has become possible to mentally enslave whole populations with the twist of a few dials.

Yes, that’s right, the new waves are in fact the kind of waves the mind itself uses in its operations, and so there will be implications in the realm of both mind control and education. Thoughts/feelings can be induced, even from afar, in target subjects, portending possible terrible uses in mentally enslaving people, or putting them into a happy trance, or making them apathetic, or even inducing sheer fear and panic. On the other hand, it will be possible to learn about any subject by merely “downloading” the knowledge directly into the human mind. A person might become a PhD. in a matter of months rather than years.

Other more offbeat possibilities would be “drug machines” which could induce a variety of euphoric happy states, a wide spectrum of consciousness altering effects which allow all drug users to get off their drugs. Why use drugs when those effects are available electromagnetically at the turn of a dial? Once the mind grasps the fundemental discovery it just runs wild thinking of the vast spectrum of things which will become possible.

But for mankind at its present juncture two aspects of longitudinal waves are supremely important: the matter of free-energy, and the terrible scalar weapons. If the government continues to suppress and hold back the secret of free energy from the vacuum, then the world continues to be locked into this direction we are going of the oil wars, as various powers seek to secure all the remaining oil supplies for themselves. In reality, the cost of the current war could easily have covered the research and development which would make the whole planet free of the need to burn oil! We are now spending 4 billion dollars a month in Iraq to take over their oil to the benefit of corporate America. The real benefit to the people of America would be to have a Manhatten-style project to develop scalar energy on a large scale and begin the changeover to a new oil-free era of world prosperity. But this will wipe out the oil companies and they are a demons that will not go down without a fight.

The Disclosure Project of Dr. Stephen Greer seeks, in part, to force disclosure by the secret agencies of the government to disclose this technology, which it holds highly classified, for the betterment of humanity. Witnesses, many of them military or ex-military, have given testimony that such technology exists and is being held secret from the people. This may classify as one of the greatest crimes against humanity, and history may very well judge it to be so. While keeping this technolgy of free-energy secret, they are secretly developing it into the worst weapons the world has ever known. It is epic evil worthy of Dr. Faust.

The secret testing of these scalar devices may also explain a lot of mysteries going on, like the cropcircles and the glowing orbs of lights in the sky increasing seen throughout the world. According to Tom Bearden, it was a scalar accident that caused the Chernobyl disaster. He also points out quite a number of sightings by trained pilots of “cold explosions” at sea which send up huge mushroom clouds of water vapor miles into the sky, or other sighting of giant glowing hemipheric electromagnetic domes, also called “Tesla shields.”

So once again, as at the dawn of the nuclear age, mankind is faced with a discovery that could lead to its own destruction, in the hands of evil or stupid men, or could lead to an incredibly better world, free of fossile fuels, filled with healthy people, and with plenty enough of everything to go around.

For more information on scalar electromagnetics see
http://www.cheniere.org

‘free of fossile fuels’
That’s a world I’d like to see -

The fiction movie ‘Southland Tales’ dips into this – and posits the idea that the US MIC that has to keep it’s global war machine going in the face of dwindling oil reserves – begins the switch to alternative tesla-inspired sources

Oil is one of the most expensive commodities on the planet – we have seen deeply obscene oil profit margins dip and rise as arbitarily as a hand turns a tap.

Exxon Mobil and Dutch Royal Shell have posted the highest corporate profits in human history in the last couple of years.

(Big fu@&en imbalance there …)

And the biggest impediment to change – has been that small group of people that refuse to give up these profits and switch to (or even research) a source that would benefit wider groups – which would of course diminish their own bottom lines.

Bio-fuels are more attractive to oil companies, because it is an energy source that can still be metered and profited from.
Makes no difference whether you suck it out of the ground or suck it out of plants grown in fields (that would normally be used to produce -food- for people), it’s all the same to them.

They won’t do it simply because there is too much money to be made.

your gay

If you think burning plane fuel weakened and melted those steel building supports – then I would think seriously about putting any long distance jumbo jet travel on hold for awhile …

Steve joins us as obviously another person that has done absolutely no research.

I think you should not only delay any air travel I would dig a really big hole to stick your head in.

… and thanks for raising the level of debate in here, Steve.

And it’s “Ýou’re” – not “Your”.

The line isn’t that the steel melted it is that the trusses heated up and torted. Do you know what a truss looks like, if yes we are on the road to recovery. If no you are the kid who drinks the bleach. Trusses are strong but weak in fire. Jet fuel burns at a temerature hot enough to tort trusses. There is no conspiracy, just science.

Buy warbonds and vote National

Rodney, do you know how to calculate tensile and compresive forces in a truss arrangement under a given load? Do you know what a safety factor is? The towers were 20 times over-engineered. How can steel be weakened to within 50% of its strength and DNA not de-natured? Dont try the “scientific” stance, it wont fucking work dumbass, if you are so sure of yourself and the government “experts” start putting some money down!!!

“There is no conspiracy, just science.”

“Rodney” believes he has science on his side just like Gary the spammer troll, always spamming his Rockefeller-approved “sciencebasedmedicine” malarkey on these discussion threads.

Not long after September 11th happened, the official story was exposed by this article:

Muslims Suspend Laws of Physics! http://www.public-action.com/911/jmcm/physics_1.html

It has stood the test of time.

Gary the spammer troll, “alex search”, “Rodney”, and “Roger” remain in their cocoon’s of denial by refusing to seriously research through the voluminous evidence that refutes the official story.

THE DAY ITSELF – EVIDENCE OF COMPLICITY

1) AWOL Chain of Command

a. It is well documented that the officials topping the chain of command for response to a domestic attack – George W. Bush, Donald Rumsfeld, Richard Myers, Montague Winfield – all found reason to do something else during the actual attacks, other than assuming their duties as decision-makers.

b. Who was actually in charge? Dick Cheney, Richard Clarke, Norman Mineta and the 9/11 Commission directly conflict in their accounts of top-level response to the unfolding events, such that several (or all) of them must be lying.

2) Air Defense Failures

a. The US air defense system failed to follow standard procedures for responding to diverted passenger flights.

b. Timelines: The various responsible agencies – NORAD, FAA, Pentagon, USAF, as well as the 9/11 Commission – gave radically different explanations for the failure (in some cases upheld for years), such that several officials must have lied; but none were held accountable.

c. Was there an air defense standdown?

3) Pentagon Strike

How was it possible the Pentagon was hit 1 hour and 20 minutes after the attacks began? Why was there no response from Andrews Air Force Base, just 10 miles away and home to Air National Guard units charged with defending the skies above the nation’s capital? How did Hani Hanjour, a man who failed as a Cessna pilot on his first flight in a Boeing, execute a difficult aerobatic maneuver to strike the Pentagon? Why did the attack strike the just-renovated side, which was largely empty and opposite from the high command?

4) Wargames

a. US military and other authorities planned or actually rehearsed defensive response to all elements of the 9/11 scenario during the year prior to the attack – including multiple hijackings, suicide crashbombings, and a strike on the Pentagon.
b. The multiple military wargames planned long in advance and held on the morning of September 11th included scenarios of a domestic air crisis, a plane crashing into a government building, and a large-scale emergency in New York. If this was only an incredible series of coincidences, why did the official investigations avoid the issue? There is evidence that the wargames created confusion as to whether the unfolding events were “real world or exercise.” Did wargames serve as the cover for air defense sabotage, and/or the execution of an “inside job”?

- THE TOP 40 REASONS TO DOUBT THE OFFICIAL STORY OF SEPTEMBER 11th, 2001
http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20041221155307646

http://911truth.org/downloads/Family_Steering_Cmte_review_of_Report.pdf

Technical Articles http://www.ae911truth.org/techarts.php _ http://firefightersfor911truth.org/

Medical Professionals for 9/11 Truth http://mp911truth.org/

41 U.S. Counter-Terrorism and Intelligence Agency Veterans Challenge the Official Account of 9/11 by Alan Miller
http://patriotsquestion911.com/Counterterrorism_Veterans.pdf

29 Structural & Civil Engineers Cite Evidence for Controlled Explosive Demolition in Collapses of All 3 WTC High-Rises on 9/11
http://www.ae911truth.org/downloads/29_Structural-Civil_Engineers_2009-06-17.pdf

Twenty-five U.S. Military Officers Challenge Official Account of 9/11
http://patriotsquestion911.com/Article%20Military%20Officers%20Challenge%20911.pdf

Eight U.S. State Department Veterans Challenge the Official Account of 9/11
http://patriotsquestion911.com/Article%20State%20Dept%20911.pdf

http://www.journalof911studies.com/ _ http://www.familiesofseptember11.org/

http://nafeez.blogspot.com/ _ http://www.william911.com/ _
http://www.justacitizen.com/

___________________________________

“Improbable Collapse: The Demolition of Our Republic” is the first film to look at the events of September 11, 2001 from a scientific perspective.

On September 11, 2001 the World Trade Center Twin Towers disintegrated in a manner that scientists say resembled deliberately calculated implosions. The facts open for discussion include: at 5:20 p.m. that same day another building, the 47 story WTC 7, completely collapsed within 70 feet of its footprint in 6.6 seconds. These three buildings became the first such structures to ever suffer complete collapse due to fire and damage.

The film closely examines one of the world’s worst catastrophes from a civil engineering perspective. Using photo and video footage as well as expert scientific testimony, the film thoroughly examines the official reports, offering varied criticisms of the official findings, while raising a more plausible hypothesis. The findings from these scientific experts have been quietly ignored by both government investigations and the mainstream media. “The dramatic collapse of World Trade Center 7 is something everyone ought to see . . . It really does have the characteristics of an explosive demolition.” – Dr. Steven Jones, physicist, author of “Why Indeed Did the WTC Buildings Completely Collapse?

”The film closely examines one of the world’s worst catastrophes from a civil engineering perspective. Using photo and video footage as well as expert scientific testimony, the film thoroughly examines the official reports, offering varied criticisms of the official findings, while raising a more plausible hypothesis. The findings from these scientific experts have been quietly ignored by both government investigations and the mainstream media.

http://www.improbablecollapse.com/

___________________________________

An honest evaluation of the evidence exposing the official version of 9/11 might thin out the trolls on this site. Sadly, the truth has no appeal to trolls, because it would hinder their agenda to spread disinformation and be the timewasters that they are.

http://www.rense.com/general87/trolls.htm

Philip, you will find plenty of truth on sciencebasedmedicine.org. As anyone with an open mind will see if they go there and read the articles. The same can’t be said for rense.com which is jam packed full of the most ridiculous pretend-science nonsense and quackery of all sorts from homeopathy to horoscopes.
Only the most truly gullible give any credence to the rubbish found there.

Regards
Gary

You talk to any fire department internationally and they will tell you the same thing. Trusses are killers. They kill fire fighters every year in roof collapses. Also do you know what the internal structure of the WTC was like. I would put up a picture if i could. It is the outside of the tower with a elevator sharft in the middle that was a load bearing structure. When the plane smashed into the side of the towers they damaged the central load bearing sharft then the jet fuel burnt at a sufficent enough temperature to tort trusses. The trusses made the support for each floor. Once the trusses torted the floor would collapse the floor below that one was not as compromised but the extra wieght of above floor on it was enough to make this floor collapse and it continued untill the tower collapsed.

I can’t say anything about WTC7, i have seen some doco’s with differing views over it and somthing is a bit wierd with that. I’m not here to antagonise against you, but i genuinly can’t understand how you believe 9/11 is a conspiracy?

Rodney understand 9/11 was a conspiracy either way. Either by Arabs or elements within the US Govt. The fact that you think only the latter is a conspiracy shows your bias, bias is not the SCIENTIFIC METHOD. If you disagree that the official story is a conspiracy by definition, please equal my wager of $10,000 NZ. We will draw up a draft and have a legal witness tomorrow if you like?

Rodney, the links I included in my post at [August 26, 2009] 8:04 am are some of the best you will find anywhere on the net.

I knew, from the very first day, that the official 9/11 explanation was (and still is) a lie.

From that time until today, I have read exhaustively into the cover-up of what really happened that day.

If you begin clicking on the links in my post above, with a real desire to get to the truth of the matter, you will never be the same.

As for Gary the spammer… most everyone who appreciates this site knows what he’s doing here.

In his own words he is “not here to learn anything.”

Dead right Philip. There is nothing to learn from crazy conspiracy nutters. I am here to provide reliable, informed, science based information to those sane enough to appreciate it.

For example:
“The anti-vaccine movement is nothing if not plastic. It “evolves” very rapidly in response to selective pressures applied to it in the form of science refuting its key beliefs. For instance, when multiple studies looking at the MMR vaccine and autism failed to confirm the myth that the MMR causes autism or “autistic enterocolitis,” most recently late last year, it was not a problem to the anti-vaccine movement. Neither was it a major problem to the movement when multiple studies similarly failed to find a link between mercury in the preservative thimerosal that used to be in most childhood vaccines and is no more (except the flu vaccine) and autism. No problem! Andrew Wakefield is alleged, based on strong evidence, to have falsified his data alleging a link between the MMR vaccine and “autistic enterocolitis”? Fuggedabouddit! The anti-vaccine movement simply pivoted neatly, de-emphasized points that the evidence was so clearly against that even they couldn’t spin it to a positive anymore, and found new bogeymen. These days, it’s the “toxins” (such as formaldehyde and the latest antivax bogeyman, squalene), and “too many too soon” (a gambit given seeming respectability by Dr. Bob Sears and Dr. Jay Gordon, apologists for and supplicants to the anti-vaccine movement both.

However, there is one trait of the anti-vaccine movement that, however its camouflaging plumage may evolve, never, ever changes. It is as immutable as believers say that God is. That trait is that, whatever other claims, the anti-vaccine movement makes, at its core it is always about the vaccines. Always. No matter how often science fails to find a link between vaccines and autism or vaccines and whatever other horreur du jour the anti-vaccine movement tries to pin on vaccines, no matter how many studies do not support the viewpoint that vaccines cause autism, no matter how much the anti-vaccine movement tries to deny and obfuscate by saying that it is not “anti-vaccine” but rather “pro-safe vaccine,” at its core the anti-vaccine movement is about fear and loathing of vaccines. Always. When inconvenient science doesn’t support their views, anti-vaccine activists either ignore the science, distort the science, or launch ad hominems against the people doing the science or citing the science. ”
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?cat=36

None of you conspiracy nuts can teach anyone anything…except how to spot a conspiracy nut.

This Rodney guy is on the right track. There is nothing sinister about gravity and simple physics.

When you remove 30-40 percent of the support columns on several floors all at once, plus as Rodney said the central core was severely damaged, thus transferring more and more dead loads to the remaining support columns. Couple that with enough heat to distort the trusses and it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to guess what’s going to happen next.

All you people do to counter people like me is to link to more conspiracy websites.

That makes no sense, do you not have the intelligence to debate on your own??

I’ve been building structures for 25+ years. I know a thing or two about how loads work and the transfer of loads as support structures are removed.

The fire didn’t have to melt the steel, all it had to do was weaken it’s tensile strength to the point where the trusses and columns could no longer do their job.

One of the funniest thing I’ve read on this site is that there were no planes involved in the attack.

I suppose all those New Yorkers that watched the planes fly into the towers were all plants? All 10 million of them?? Really?? Are those some of the “facts” you wish to hang your hat?

It defies logic to even begin to take any of your so called facts for real.

Do any of you nitwits even understand the first thing involved in building a structure??

Yeah, you go right ahead and cling to that, dude.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bbn7qk61NZ4

Look dude, quoting conspiracy websites to defend conspiracy theories is idiotic.

Can you think for yourself??

Can any of you “geniuses” start to explain how to build a building?

Do any of you understand gravity?

How about load bearing structures?

Continuing to link to conspiracy sites, just proves you don’t think for yourself and are no better than a sheep following the herd.

Come on ewing

Lay down the knowledge you claim to have.

I build these things for a living

do you??

Let’s see your knowledge….DUDE

You see, Clare Swinney is too scared to debate me.

Let’s see if you are the same weak kneed conspiracy nut she is.

… watch the building collapse again.

It is NOT a building collapsing from fire.

No amount of debate will change that.

This is important to you, isn’t it?

Fire was only a contributing factor to the weakening of the steel.

The rest was accomplished by simple gravity and load stresses never dreamed of on the remaining support columns.

Still can’t explain how to build a structure can you??

The other contributing factors were the removal of most of the central core’s support structures. This happened due to the way the planes crashed into the bulidings.

If you notice, the plane turns slightly before it hits…that way more floors were affected by the impact.

Ironically , as I tried to tell Clare…if the central core had been built of reinforced structural concrete, like they are built in earthquake zones..the buildings might actually have survived.

Oh and ewing,

I’ve watched countless conspiracy videos and read countless accounts by people like you.

No credible source agrees with you…NONE.

Wow, the silence is deafening

Let me guess, you’re googling like mad in an effort to “prove me wrong” by linking to a different kook website.

Wow ewing,

you are so secure in your beliefs that you have to run and hide from opposing points of view??

Are you sure you believe what you believe?? Or are you just repeating what you’ve heard?

clare’s shadow = … guess who… go on guess.

Careful ‘Clare’s Shadow’. Scott will be labeling you as a disinfo troll next. This sort of reaction is all these crazies can muster. They certainly aren’t capable of rational argument so they constantly link to loopy sites like ‘whale’ and ‘rense’.
With luck they will all run away to Clare’s blog where contrary views are censored.

You’ll never know.

But how about trying to refute any of the facts I put forth on her website.

You people can’t refute the facts, all you can do is string a bunch of dots together and claim a conspiracy.

Do you understand about loads?

Do you understand about how every part of a building works together to maintain the structure? when you remove so many supports from several floors…it’s not surprising the towers collapsed.

No conspiracy, no evil “Them” , the MIBs do not really exist and neither do the black helicopters.

Can any of you refute the facts without referring to conspiracy websites?

Do any of you build things for a living as I do?

If you think I’m wrong, then try to refute the facts…on your own, with your own knowledge of building practices.

Yes troll, sadly they reveal the paucity of their arguments by attacking those of us that disagree with them…instead of trying to refute the facts.

Oh and Clare is one of the worst.

She claims to be a journalist, yet engages in only yellow journalism…not a very noble pursuit on her part

What a revolting individual you are. Calling yourself “Clares shadow” really is funny as your ignorance of the facts couldn’t be any further from the amount of knowledge Clare has. How many articles have you had published?

I suggest you go and look at this website prehaps then you can contact Richard Gage and debate the facts with him. As a group of professional Architects and Engineers maybe they are qualified enough for you to listen to. (I suppose this website kind of destroys your fantasy about no credible sources agreeing with us too eh) Anyway I am sure they deal with uneducated upstarts like you everyday. I suggest you confine yourself to building rather than thinking – you obviously aren’t that good at it.

http://www.ae911truth.org/

Ahh yes, I’ve read some of your posts too Lorraine.

Why are people like you and clare so afraid of opposing views.

Do you build things for a living?

Do you understand gravity and how it works?

how about loads on support structures?

you people are the ones afraid of facts.

you instead link to idiotic conspiracy sites as proof of your conspiracy.

Do you have any concept of how pathetic that is?

That’s like defining a word by using the word itself.

You are the people advocating censorship and hiding when your views are challenged, not me.

Why don’t you tell clare to open up her forum to opposing views.

or are you all too afraid of your facts that they can’t stand the light of day??

Oh and simply publishing idiotic conspiracy theories does not make one an expert. It makes them….DELUSIONAL….yes , she, you and any one else that believes this tripe is delusional.

There is no way in hell a conspiracy of this size could be kept quiet this long. Too many people would have had to have been involved…SOMEONE would have talked by now.

Go back to your nutjob cave…OR be a bigger person than clare and try to refute the facts I have presented…without linking to 911.org…

you destroy your credibility by that behavior.

Let’s see, you have absolutely no knowledge of how to build things…yet you are some sort of expert??

LOL

You people need help

come on lorraine, defend your position in your own words, don’t parrot a website.

You tell me where I’ve gone wrong in my analysis of the structural integrity of those towers.

You seem to “know the truth”

Let’s hear it

REFUTE MY FACTS….if you have the balls to do it.

According to the bureau of labor statistics, in 2006 there were 1.5 Million engineers employed in the States.

Of that number, approximately 700,000 of these engineers are involved in the specialty of structural engineering and the related fields.

You quote a kook website that claims a whopping 808 engineers think it was an inside job.

That equates to .001 percent of the engineers JUST in the USA.

Why on earth would any intelligent person dismiss 700,000 engineers in favor of 808??

Like I said, it’s easy to come up with conspiracy theories…they can never be proven so all sorts of “facts” can be inserted to “prove” it’s true.

Here is the link to the BLS website.

Read for yourself

http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos027.htm#emply

Or go stick your head in the sand and be led around by your nose.

You done ?

Sorry, but you are wasting your time here … Same old crap year after year.

Information hemmorage (sp?) is happening no matter what.
You can’t stop it.

I have a question for you if you don’t mind?

It’s:

If you are a troll – do you reckon that your employers have let you in on everything (or are there
still some things that you don’t really need to know about? Need. To. Know. type stuff)

and a follow up question :

What type of cyberspace prick bully asshole calls himself Claires Shadow, Claires Shadow?

Gary, what are you doing here? – they need you urgently over at studio 2D !

http://uncensored.co.nz/2009/08/29/hi-troll/

The informercial for the helicopter mounted chain-gun is about to finish – and then you’re on !

Your question when you get there is :

Why did WTC7 collapse?

You have dimwits on your side citing “facts” that no planes were involved in the attack…despite the entire world seeing them crash into the buidings…both on video and in person for the New Yorkers.

Are all of these people making up what they saw??

Are you actually trying to claim that the U.S. government has got the entire world to cover for them??

Next you’re going to tell me that the jews did it because some nutcase said all the jews left the building ahead of the attack…completely ignoring the long list of jewish names on the casualty lists.

You have nothing of substance with which to debate intelligent people. All you nitwits can do is reinforce each others conspiracy theories.

Lorraine you are useful idiot , that’s for sure.

How many times do you have to be told, linking to kook websites to prove kook ideas is childish at best??

The entire WTC complex was built over a large hole essentially. After two towers collapsed..it stands to reason the underlying foundation of the entire complex was compromised.

You keep forgetting, I BUILD THESE THINGS…I know how they are put together and how to take them down.

The terrorists did their homework and hit them at their weakest spot.

No conspiracy, just simple physics.

Oh, and by the way, you spelled Clare’s name wrong

why are we supposed to believe

.001 % of the engineers instead of the remaining hundreds of thousand other engineers that don’t buy into your kook ideas??

I’m not wasting my time, I’m proving beyond a doubt you nitwits have nothing substantive to debate with.

Did you go to the bls site and see the breakdown of how many engineers are in the states??

Do you have any idea how you look? If your aim was to come here and discredit us you have failed big time. All you have done is made us look even more credible (and sane). I suggest you stop digging yourself into an even bigger hole.

Like Scott, and the other contributors to this site we have got better things to do then deal with a twat like you.

so you can’t refute the facts Lorraine??

All you can do is engage in ad hominem attacks??

You won’t even debate the facts, how does that make you look credible??

Why so afraid of opposing views??

Are you that insecure with your beliefs??

come on lorraine…

Tell me how many years you have in the construction industry.

I have over 25 years experience…how many years experience do you have in building things lorraine?

Refusing to debate facts , just shows the weakness of your arguments.

Yes I do have a concept of how I look.

I’m the one quoting facts coupled with 25 years of experience in the building industry.

I’m the one discrediting you dimwits.

You can’t describe to me the first thing involved in building something can you Lorraine?

All you can do is call people names and you take that as “proof” you’re correct.

You take the “word” of .001% of the engineers in America and dismiss the opinions of the 700,000 other engineers in this country.

Let me guess…THEY got to all of them right? The Men in Black got a hold of all of these engineers and forced them to parrot “the government line”

Is that your contention??

Typical kook, your beliefs are challenged and you run and hide.

You discredit yourself by your very actions Lorraine.

This is the problem with conspiracy theories…they don’t stand up to scrutiny.

So does the fact that you have 25 years in the construction industry and I don’t make any difference to understanding the basic components of a controlled demolition? – NO. If you honestly think that just because I am not some builder that I can’t understand researched, peer reviewed evidence then you are crazy.

The main point here before I leave you to your psychotic rant is that people on the whole come to this website to look at alternative sources of information and then makeup their own mind. I really don’t give a flying f*ck what you do or don’t believe. I do however strongly object to you thinking you can personally attack good people to try and discredit our right to investigate and talk about non-mainstream issues. The mere fact that you aren’t even prepared to look at the evidence as presented by Richard Gage says multitudes. Contempt prior to investigation is the highest form of ignorance.

“Contempt prior to investigation is the highest form of ignorance.”
Really Lorraine? Higher than believing in homeopathy, acupuncture and reflexology?
I think you have got us all beaten on the high ignorance scale. Except perhaps for Scot and Phil.

And I mean that in the kindest possible way,
Gary

PS. Don’t you just love ad hominem arguments? It saves you kooks from having to deal with the facts.

The buildings WERE designed to take multiple 707 impacts

Both buildings were not equally damaged by the impacts, and neither had more than 11 of 47 central columns damaged

The buildings were engineered with a safety factor of 20

NIST has changed its hypothesis on building 7 5 times

The FBI has “insufficient evidence” to prosecute bin Laden if he were captured today!

The US govt obviously lied about prior knowledge as they were running 15 war games that day simulating almost the exact same scenario. This confused emergency services and aslo put NORADS jets 135 miles away from pentagon rather than at Andrews air base 13 miles away.

the military chain of command was ammended in july and re-ammended on september 12

NIST admits the plane impacts had little effect on the integrity and instead puts all the emphasis on the subsequent fires

There was molten steel at ground zero according to first responders and NASA thermo images weeks later.

Av-gas burns at 980 degress celcius in pure oxygen (not carbon black fires) where did the extra energy come from to melt steel (1500+degress celcius)

How does non-uniform damage cause uniform collapse with all three structures

The project for a new American century talks of the need for a pearl harbour style event in order to catalyse military expansion (sept ‘00)

The pentagon was re-enforced for aircraft impact on the side it was impacted months prior

Many on the hijackers lived near the NSA in Florida, on fbi property, and were trained at military bases according to mainstream articles

Then we have a document written by the second highest level of government in 1962 that ties this all together. Read it “Operation Nothwoods”. If nothing else it shows you what they are CAPABLE of!

I’ve worked in construction also and I know what arrogant fucks you can be. Just because you know about structural steel, concrete and trusses, doesn’t make you an authority on false flag terrorism or global intelligence organisations. So I you have any more crap to spout put your name forward and put some money down!

Have you answered the quiz yet troll?

Is it too hard for you?

Hey Scott I have just been talking to Clare and she said that bozzo calling himself clares shadow has been spamming her site too. After attempting to debate the facts with him (along with others) she gave up and started deleting his posts instead. Hence the vitriolic attack on Clare.

Typical disinformation tactic of accusing someone of not debating with you when they have tried to. Obviously this guy is the same as the old troll – here purely to disrupt and cause trouble. Best ignored.

“clares shadow” you accuse us of supporting our conspiarcy theories with links to conspiracy sites, but then you do the same by supporting your official theory with official testimony. IE we put forward an explanation and you say “no credible source agrees” but the “credible” sources you site are official organisations that we claim are involved in the cover-up. Can you see the problem here? The independent jury is your mind, look at the data, and don’t have blind faith in a source just because they are “official” and “credible” can you not see how such thinking could be exploited and lead to corruption? Or do you not think corruption exists? Do you think the world is made up of innocent little angels just doing their jobs?

Five Quick Questions
with controversial Muslim author
Kevin Barrett

Introduction by Sander Hicks

I remember a 9/11 truth gig I did at the Rainbow Cooperative bookstore in Madison, WI, in 2005. It was a great night, with a lively and packed little room. There was this guy there who just seemed to bubble up with enthusiasim and zeal for 9/11 truth. I got to know him later that night, as he smiled and locked horns with the doctrinaire Marxist, and anti-9/11 Truth, bookstore manager. The clinching argument was that 9/11 Truth did NOT distract from “real anti-war organizing.” In fact, this energetic guy claimed, he knew from experience that he could convert military families to 9/11 Truth in 20 minutes. He had just done it that week.

The guy was Kevin Barrett. At the time, he had not written a book on 9/11 and still had a university job. Four years later, he’s got a couple of books out, good ones, he’s been blackballed by the local U. of W. Madison. The man has suffered outrageous torts and humiliation for standing up for truth, for freedom of religion, for faith. He is seeking a good lawyer to persue a religious discrimination suit.

Barrett appeared on Hannity and Colmes, but repeatedly refused to appear on The O’Reilly Factor until his teaching semester was over. O’Reilly got so upset he sputtered an unprofessional death threat on air (see sidebar on the right for a bit more on that).

Barrett’s words are provocative. His religion and worldview run counter to much of mainstream American culture. In just this brief interview, I got a sense of how twisted, how out of step with 1/5th of the world, how anti-Islamic, much of America’s basic reality is. There’s plenty of controversey about this guy, and a lot of loose talk. I jumped in and got him to answer a few questions:

rest of article here:
http://wedemandtransparency.com/barrett.html

Hey lorraine, she did not try to debate the facts

She kept telling me to go watch youtube videos on conspiracy websites.

That is not debating facts Lorraine

I presented many many facts about buildings and the way it collapsed.

She never, not once tried to refute any of the facts I presented…

Lorraine, that is how you debate things, one side says this the other side says that, then you try to take apart or agree with their stated facts.

All i got from Clare and the other kooks like you is a bunch of ad hominem attacks.

That is not debating Lorraine, that is pontificating.

Look nz i did not quote official testimony.

I build these things for a living.

I don’t need a government to tell me what I saw and what I know in over 25 years of construction experience.

I never once quoted or linked to any government site, EXCEPT to show how you nimrods are taking the “opinion” of .001% of the over 700,000 structural and material engineers JUST in America.

If you want to add engineers worldwide, that .001% goes down significantly making it even less likely your opinions are based in reality.

so let’s hear it nz

Going to lie about what I’ve said again??

Or are you going to try and refute the facts I’ve presented??

DO you build skyscrapers for a living nz??

Do you have over 25 years experience building them nz??

You keep saying I cited “government sources” yet there is not one link in any of my posts except the aforementioned link the bureau of labor statistics in regards to how many engineers are in the states…vs how many “engineers” on your side claim it was a conspiracy.

In fact , that’s all you dimwits are doing here

You aren’t debating the facts, you’re calling me names etc etc

And try to discredit me personally, instead of trying to refute the facts I’ve presented.

Nz, Lorraine, and any of you other nutjobs…refusing to acknowledge the facts I’ve presented is NOT debating.

Do you need to be educated as to the meaning of the word debate also??

Nz the buildings were designed to take ONE hit from a 707, not multiple.

Furthermore, the buildings were not designed to survive a concerted effort to bring them down.

It stands to reason that an airliner that is heading for the towers would be trying desperately to get out of the way..thus leading the distinct possibility of a glancing blow at best. In that scenario, yes, they would have survived.

I bet you don’t even know why they came up with the idea to try and make the buildings able to withstand an airplane crash..

Let’s see if you even know about that fact…let alone the countless others you dismiss because it doesn’t fit your conspiracy theory.

Do you realize how many thousands upon thousands of people that would have been needed to pull this off???

Someone would have talked by now, that many people can not be kept silent this many years after the event…

There is no logical way to believe all these thousands of people could be kept quiet this long.

Lorraine, I am not attacking good people.

I’m trying to get certifiable nutjobs to answer even the most basic of questions.

None of you have been able to do that.

The steel didn’t melt, it didn’t have to melt to lose it’s structural integrity.

If all of these planes didn’t exist (as Ive seen some on this and other boards claim) then where are all the people that were supposed to have been in those planes?? Did they not exist either?

You might want to go talk to their relatives….they existed to their families…unless you wish to claim those people are in on it too??

Oh and one last thing for a bit.

At least this website isn’t afraid of opposing views.

Unlike Clare that believes in censorship on her own site, but rails against supposed censorship of “the facts” by the MIBs

Censorship destroys your credibility.

“clares shadow” you may have 25 years experience, and yes I am only 25 years old, but please learn from history…

You obviously see truth in numbers
“you nimrods are taking the “opinion” of .001% of the over 700,000 structural and material engineers JUST in America.”
“Do you realize how many thousands upon thousands of people that would have been needed to pull this off???”

This is a huge problem; people like you cannot believe so many experts could be wrong, or just afraid to tell the truth. You think it’s a contest of how many on “your side” vs how few on “our side”.

Well have you ever noticed the majority of people are wrong on so many issues? For example how many people know how to build a bomb? Not many, but does this make it impossible? How many people would know how an engine works in every detail (volumetric efficiency, bore/stroke ratio’s etc)? Not many but there are millions of cars driving around. How many people know why the wind blows? But the wind still blows. You see I live in the real world, where reality comes before what most people think, and frankly I don’t give a fuck what most retarded idiots out there think, because they are largely based on surface, infantile, one-line explanations.

Look how thousands of the world’s best scientists were duped into working for Hitler’s SS. Smarter people than you and I have been suckered before and will continue to be, so take a step back and broaden your knowledge. An unfortunate side-effect of the specialisation of labour is peoples narrowed focus and compartmentalised world views. Why don’t you look up the definition of conspiracy and then Google “Israeli insider ringworm children”

Twin Towers’ Designers Anticipated Jet Impacts Like September 11th’s

Structural engineers who designed the Twin Towers carried out studies in the mid-1960s to determine how the buildings would fare if hit by large jetliners. In all cases the studies concluded that the Towers would survive the impacts and fires caused by the jetliners.

Evidence of these studies includes interviews with and papers and press releases issued by engineers who designed and oversaw construction of the World Trade Center.

1960s-era Jetliners Compared to Boeing 767s
Contrary to widely promoted misconceptions, the Boeing 767-200s used on 9/11/01 were only slightly larger than 707s and DC 8s, the types of jetliners whose impacts the World Trade Center’s designers anticipated.

The graphic from Chapter 1 of FEMA’s Report shows the sizes of a 707 and a 767 relative to the footprint of a WTC tower. 1 Flight 11 and Flight 175 were Boeing 767-200s. Although a 767-200 has a slightly wider body than a 707, the two models are very similar in overall size, weight and fuel capacity.

Given the differences in cruise speeds, a 707 in normal flight would actually have more kinetic energy than a 767, despite the slightly smaller size. Note the similar fuel capacities of both aircraft. The 767s used on September 11th were estimated to be carrying about 10,000 gallons of fuel each at the time of impact, only about 40% of the capacity of a 707.

Statements by Engineers who participated in the design of the World Trade Center have stated, since the attack, that the Towers were designed to withstand jetliner collisions. For example, Leslie Robertson, who is featured on many documentaries about the attack, said he “designed it for a (Boeing) 707 to hit it.” 2 Statements and documents predating the attack indicate that engineers considered the effects of not only of jetliner impacts, but also of ensuing fires.

John Skilling was the head structural engineer for the World Trade Center. In a 1993 interview, Skilling stated that the Towers were designed to withstand the impact and fires resulting from the collision of a large jetliner such as Boeing 707 or McDonald Douglas DC-8.

Our analysis indicated the biggest problem would be the fact that all the fuel (from the airplane) would dump into the building. There would be a horrendous fire. A lot of people would be killed, … The building structure would still be there. 3
A white paper released on February 3, 1964 states that the Towers could have withstood impacts of jetliners travelling 600 mph — a speed greater than the impact speed of either jetliner used on 9/11/01.

The buildings have been investigated and found to be safe in an assumed collision with a large jet airliner (Boeing 707—DC traveling at 600 miles per hour. Analysis indicates that such collision would result in only local damage which could not cause collapse or substantial damage to the building and would not endanger the lives and safety of occupants not in the immediate area of impact.

The Richard Roth Telegram
On Feburary 13, 1965, real estate baron Lawrence Wien called reporters to his office to charge that the design of the Twin Towers was structurally unsound. Many suspected that his allegation was motivated by a desire to derail the planned World Trade Center skyscrapers to protect the value of his extensive holdings, which included the Empire State Building. In response to the charge, Richard Roth, partner at Emery Roth & Sons, the architectural firm that was designing the Twin Towers, fired back with a three-page telegram containing the following details.

THE STRUCTURAL ANALYSIS CARRIED OUT BY THE FIRM OF WORTHINGTON, SKILLING, HELLE & JACKSON IS THE MOST COMPLETE AND DETAILED OF ANY EVER MADE FOR ANY BUILDING STRUCTURE. THE PRELIMINARY CALCULATIONS ALONE COVER 1,200 PAGES AND INVOLVE OVER 100 DETAILED DRAWINGS.
…
4. BECAUSE OF ITS CONFIGURATION, WHICH IS ESSENTIALLY THAT OF A STEEL BEAM 209′ DEEP, THE TOWERS ARE ACTUALLY FAR LESS DARING STRUCTURALLY THAN A CONVENTIONAL BUILDING SUCH AS THE EMPIRE STATE BUILDING WHERE THE SPINE OR BRACED AREA OF THE BUILDING IS FAR SMALLER IN RELATION TO ITS HEIGHT.
…
5. THE BUILDING AS DESIGNED IS SIXTEEN TIMES STIFFER THAN A CONVENTIONAL STRUCTURE. THE DESIGN CONCEPT IS SO SOUND THAT THE STRUCTURAL ENGINEER HAS BEEN ABLE TO BE ULTRA-CONSERVATIVE IN HIS DESIGN WITHOUT ADVERSELY AFFECTING THE ECONOMICS OF THE STRUCTURE. …
At the time the Twin Towers were built, the design approach of moving the support columns to the perimeter and the core, thereby creating large expanses of unobstructed floor space, was relatively new, and unique for a skyscraper. However, that approach is commonplace in contemporary skyscrapers.

Frank Demartini’s Statement
Frank A. Demartini, on-site construction manager for the World Trade Center, spoke of the resilience of the towers in an interview recorded on January 25, 2001.

The building was designed to have a fully loaded 707 crash into it. That was the largest plane at the time. I believe that the building probably could sustain multiple impacts of jetliners because this structure is like the mosquito netting on your screen door — this intense grid — and the jet plane is just a pencil puncturing that screen netting. It really does nothing to the screen netting.
Demartini, who had an office on the 88th floor of the North Tower, has been missing since the 9/11/01 attack, having remained in the North Tower to assist in the evacuation. 6 Demartini had first worked at World Trade Center when Leslie E. Robertson Associates hired him to assess damage from the truck bombing in 1993.

Like All Skyscrapers, the Twin Towers Were Over-Engineered
One aspect of engineering that is not widely understood is that structures are over-engineered as a matter of standard practice. Steel structures like bridges and buildings are typically designed to withstand five times anticipated static loads and 3 times anticipated dynamic loads. The anticipated loads are the largest ones expected during the life of the structure, like the worst hurricane or earthquake occurring while the floors are packed with standing-room-only crowds. Given that September 11th was not a windy day, and that there were not throngs of people in the upper floors, the critical load ratio was probably well over 10, meaning that more than nine-tenths of the columns at the same level would have to fail before the weight of the top could have overcome the support capacity of the remaining columns.

There is evidence that the Twin Towers were designed with an even greater measure of reserve strength than typical large buildings. According to the 1964 white paper cited above, a Tower would still be able to withstand a 100-mile-per-hour wind after all the perimeter columns on one face and some of the columns on each adjacent face had been cut. 7 Also, John Skilling is cited by the Engineering News Record for the claim that “live loads on these [perimeter] columns can be increased more than 2000% before failure occurs.” 8

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/design.html

Still quoting kook conspiracy sites to prove your conspiracy theory??

You are just making an utter and complete fool of yourself and destroying any credibility you thought you had.

nz , it stretches logic to the point of breaking that your 808 engineers trump 700,000 engineers.

I don’t have any delusions that 808 trump 700,000.

You are the one that things despite the mountains of evidence to the contrary from all corners of the debate is irrelevant, but you and your 808 engineers “know the truth”….yet can’t seem to provide any facts…oh except on kook conspiracy sites.

None you dimwits have tried to refute the facts on this thread or over on Clare’s site. All you’ve done is attack me personally and link to kook websites.

You lied when you said I cited government sources. You have no credibility nz, none

Sorry but which country are we in -China or NZ?

Maori TV to show Chinese Govt video – after Kadeer documentary

Maori TV will run a documentary on Kadeer tonight, contrary to the Chinese Government’s wishes.

Maori Television will now show a documentary owned by the Chinese Government, following another that looks at the struggles of a Muslim minority group in China.

The television station said it is not bowing to pressure, despite a visit from embassy staff asking to pull the documentary.

Maori TV spokeswoman Sonya Haggie said embassy staff visited the television station and asked for ‘The 10 Conditions of Love’ not to be broadcast.

The documentary is about the life and struggles of Uyghur nationalist leader Rebiya Kadeer, a leader of the Muslim minority in the northwest of China.

The Chinese Government’s documentary represents China’s official view of the recent ethnic riots between the Uyghur people and the Han Chinese which left 197 people dead.

Ms Haggie said there was pressure but “we didn’t feel the pressure”.

She said the delegation from the embassy said Rebiya Kadeer was a terrorist but embassy staff could not “substantiate the claims”.

Ms Haggie said the delegation also left a film with the Television station, called Xinjiang Urumqi July 5 Riot: Truth.

She said the station had decided to run the documentary in the interests of showing two points of view.

Ms Haggie originally said that the station was not planning on displaying a message before the Chinese Government’s documentary aired to explain where it had come from. She later confirmed that a message would run to say that the documentary was owned by the Chinese Government.

The Chinese Government have also asked the Melbourne International Film Festival to withdraw the film.

Festival director Richard Moore refused the request. The festival’s communication systems – phone, fax, email and website – were hacked and blocked by overuse.

It was believed Beijing then pressured Chinese film-makers into withdrawing their films from the festival programme.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10594528

Grow a spin Maori TV and tell the Chinese Government to get lost. I bet they wouldn’t take kindly to us objecting to their human rights abuses.

Oh boy, yet ANOTHER conspiracy theory??

You people don’t stop do you??

Do you believe in black helicopters and the MJ-12 memo??

You see, I’ve read extensively about conspiracy theories for years. I’m fascinated how otherwise intelligent people can believe such bs.

It wouldn’t matter where the information came from, if it contradicts your small view of the world you would throw your teddy across the room. As you have been doing all day.

The information that I posted on the structural engineers that designed the twin towers is not conspiracy it is FACT. DO YOU GET THAT MORON.

None of you can refute the facts can you??

None of you can explain how thousands of people that would have to have been involved in your conspiracy have been kept quiet all these years.

None of you have a shred of common sense when it comes to gravity and load stresses on support structures.

I’m sure you people are calling all your kook buddies to come over here and spam me with links to conspiracy sites.

Actually no we don’t stop. This site is used to discuss alternative information to the muppet mainstream media.

Why don’t you piss off to Wikipedia I am sure they would love your input over there.

oooh lorraine , such strong language.

You poor deluded woman.

All you can do is quote others, I BUILD THESE THINGS

I am the source you need as to how to bring down the towers.

You do it by slamming airliners into the buildings at top speed and full of fuel.

This is not rocket science Lorraine….well to you it might be, but to the rest of the rational world this is a no brainer.

How do you explain how thousands of people have been kept quiet all these years about the conspiracy??

Let’s hear it Lorraine, refute my facts or answer any of the questions I have raised.

None of you have yet to try and refute any facts I’ve presented. You continue to link to conspiracy sites.

Nz lies about what I’ve said, you lie about what went on over at Clare’s site. You people lie out of habit.

Conspiracies never survive scrutiny.

Why don’t you try to refute the facts??

Come on Lorraine, you seem to know the “truth”

Let’s hear it in your own words…

Oh wait, when you don’t parrot a conspiracy website, all you can do is call me names.

You’re not looking very intelligent Lorraine. You’re not proving your case Lorraine. Alternative views would consist of differing opinions of how gravity and the damage caused to the buildings ultimately collapsed them

Alternative views are not, the government conspired to destroy the towers.

Come on Lorraine, refute my facts in your own words.

Come on Lorraine,

You know about those black helicopters that only fly and night and are silent and invisible.

You know about the MJ-12 memo, all conspiracy nuts know about that one.

Your comment of “It doesn’t matter where the information comes from” is very telling

Lorraine it matters very much where the information comes from. If it is coming from non credible sources, it has no credibility.

If it comes from reputable sources it holds much more weight.

Conspiracy nutjobs like you, take several disparate facts and string them together and voila a conspiracy is born

Where do you get you information from? Saying we cite “conspiracy sites” is equal to me claimimng you cite “conspirator or coverup sites”. When I said you cite government sites I was trying to relay that you support the official explanation, supposedly that would have to invoke their sources? You talk about 808 vs 700,000. Well understand many are afraid of being called a kook, loosing their jobs, not recieving their next grant, or just ignorant and self-centered. The same can be said in the global warming debate with most scientists standing with the ipcc nonsense. Truth is often not expressed in numbers but rather evidence. The latest Zogby poll stated 70 million Americans want a new 9/11 investigation however. Have you ever watched Zero, LCFC, 9/11 mysteries etc?

I get the information from my 25 years of experience building and tearing down buildings.

You link to conspiracy websites such as

http://www.ae911truth.org/

There’s a kook website that Lorraine linked to.

All you people have been doing to “refute me” is to link to further conspiracy sites.

You say you are only 25 years old?

Look kid, when I was your age I believed in some of this shit too. Then I grew up and saw how the world around me works…and realize it is impossible to keep a secret this big for this long without someone talking.

You are the one that is denying common sense and the mountains of evidence around you.

I support my own knowledge of skyscrapers and other structures learned over 25+ years in the industry. If the government agrees with me so be it.

You obviously don’t know what the word CITE means since I did not CITE any government source..now you try to backtrack and claim…err umm I only meant you support the government.

So tell me nz, in your 25 years on this planet, how many building have you built?

Ok some MIGHT be afraid to speak out, but it is still an infinitesimal number in the face of 700,000 engineers JUST in America. We haven’t even begun to count the millions of other engineers around the world.

You are relying on .001 % for “the truth” when the remaining 99.999% disagree. You are on very shaky ground intellectually.

Yeah, watched all the conspiracy videos, movies , etc.

Read up on all of your conspiracy theories.

I know more about your movement than I’m sure even you know.

So tell me nz, what is the first thing you do when constructing a building?

Let’s start there

Hey nz, I found your “latest poll”

It is three years old…not very current now is it.

Not to mention I can not find the actual poll on his website. All links lead to conspiracy websites stating he conducted a poll but there seems to be no evidence to support that claim.

Yet another “cover up” by the government I’d bet huh? They’ve gotten to zogby, oh no…who is next??

Your lack of credible sources and refusal to refute the facts destroys any credibility you think you have.

Here’s the link to Zogby’s site and all associated 9/11 polls.

The poll you claim he took is not listed

http://www.zogby.com/search/SearchNews.cfm

So, care to try again nz??

Come on nz, I’ve caught you in two lies already.

Your credibility is rapidly evaporating.

Do you have anything more substantive to put forth??

Or will you keep lying in a desperate attempt to reinforce your beliefs??

Well I haven’t built any buildings but neither have you. You may have some small role, tying off re-bars maybe, you cannot claim to have “built” skyscrapers. Also I may be 25 but I know how well secrets can be kept, and when they are leaked due whistle blowers coming forward establishment lackeys like you can’t believe it and the consensus lie is perpetuated. That is how this works, not so much of an outright conspiracy, but an exploitation of the limited public awareness. So tell me what your job is exactly, if you’re not full of shit. OH and you still seem to think the “truth” is what most people think and agree on, how retarded. Do you know that Hitler gained 96% when he was elected? Were the 4% on “shaky ground” due to their non support of Hitler, maybe they were conspiracy theorists because they thought he was not fit to run Germany?

As for catching me on “two lies already”, this is pure semantical spin. You live a lie, you reget the dictionary definition of conspiracy otherwise you would see how hypocritical your world view is. You believe in fiction and as a result will soon become fiction, because 9/11, nwo, fema, fluoride and everything else aside. You believe the banking system is legitimate and not a wealth transfer sytem that is about to implode on the vast majority of people. Thanks to the faith “smart” people like you have in fiat federal reserve currency, you have unwittingly sold everyone into bondage, and soon your ignorance will no longer be bliss! So keep building crap and being a pawn,moan about inane shit and call yourself patriotic for paying taxes for your government to service its perpetual debt to foriegn bankers

Still too afraid to debate the facts nz??

You’ve been caught in two lies already

Make that three (claiming I don’t build things for a living)

If you are so sure of your beliefs, what do you have to fear by debating the facts??

I work in the commercial construction industry. I have built several buildings over my 25+ years in construction.

All you can do is attack me, you can’t refute any of my claims and in fact lie about what I’ve said.

You have zero credibility.

As far as keeping everyone quiet

Do you have any concept whatsoever of how many thousands of people that would have had to have been involved for your conspiracy to work?

There is no way in hell the government could keep all of them quiet this long. At least one or two would have come forward by now…but to date no one has come forward to claim involvement in your conspiracy.

Nz we are not talking about political elections, we are talking about engineering principles. These can be tested and retested to produce verifiable results.

If 4% of a populace believes the sun rises in the west..should we take them seriously??

Your are failing miserably, ad hominem attacks belie your lack of logical arguments.

Ok now you’ve completely lost it.

You are talking about the banking industry in a debate about 9/11??

You are a loon.

what on earth does the banking industry have to do with 9/11??

I believe in truth, you are the one that can’t support your claims.

You are the one believing lies.

Oh and your lies are quite stark and easily refuted.

You claimed a Zogby poll that doesn’t exist on his website

You claim I cited government sources but there are no links in any of my posts except the one about how many engineers are in the states.

Those are verifiable lies you have made on this board.

You compound your lies by refusing to debate the facts and instead attacking me.

So let’s hear it kid, how do you (not some website) but how do you explain how a building missing 30-40% of its support columns on several floors did not contribute to the collapse.

We’ll take each issue one at a time to avoid overloading your brain.

Start with that one. Explain to me your theory of how a building won’t collapse under those conditions.

Here is the dictionary definition of conspiracy you claim I fear.

* Main Entry: con·spire
* Pronunciation: \kən-ˈspī(-ə)r\
* Function: verb
* Inflected Form(s): con·spired; con·spir·ing
* Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French conspirer, from Latin conspirare to be in harmony, conspire, from com- + spirare to breathe
* Date: 14th century

transitive verb : plot, contriveintransitive verb 1 a : to join in a secret agreement to do an unlawful or wrongful act or an act which becomes unlawful as a result of the secret agreement b : scheme
2 : to act in harmony toward a common end

This is exactly what you kooks are claiming.

Where are all the people in those planes nz??

How has the government managed to keep thousands of co conspirators quiet all these years?

This is what I mean by compartmentalised, I talk about another subject trying to draw an analogy of logic because you claimed to have viewed all our 9/11 material, and your subject specific brain melts down. This is why I use ad homiem attacks when I know I shouldn’t because I’m sick of going back to pre-school for dumb sons of bitches like you, when I should just be focused on fighting the nwo. I know this will sound insane to you, but you are insane to me, but it’s not parity since the facts are on my side:

OFFICAL sources

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/northwoods.pdf

http://web.israelinsider.com/Views/3998.htm

I also know a little of engineering, system of parts, method of joints, 3rd order differential equations etc. So don’t try bamboozle me you little maggot. Missing a support column over a few floors is not the same as removing a column, attention to detail, not something populist thinkers like you are good at. As for you claim “At least one or two would have come forward by now”, firstly this is a vague statement based on FAITH. Secondly, they have retard: Morgan Reynolds, Robert Bowman. Deal with it!

If this comments section was a real room with real people standing in it – then you would be that asshole with his chest puffed out, and yelling – drunk & ruddy – into everyone’s faces, with your hand stuck down the front of your trousers.

That makes you perfect for television.

Would you would like to be on our quiz show in the near future?

We had Gary – but he kept dribbling in his chair – and we had to keep going to a commercial.

If you would – please click on the link below

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6UX1bW3o6I&feature=related

Ahh ewing, haven’t heard from you in awhile.

I see you continue to link to conspiracy sites and engage in ad hominem attacks.

How many years experience do you have in the construction industry?

Let’s see your knowledge, calling me names just proves you have nothing intelligent with which to work with.

nz you continue to attack me personally and have yet to refute any of the facts I’ve proposed.

You just linked to two sites that have nothing to do with 9/11.

One of them some memo with no corroborating documentation supposedly about the Bay of Pigs

The other one is a site about Israel, no 9/11 stuff on that one either.

You are failing pretty badly kid.

As far as A missing support column, that is a lie. There were approximately 30-40% of the columns and associated support structures missing from several floors. Not just one. Nice try kid but you’re still flailing about.

How have they managed to keep all these people quiet for so many years.

Where are all the people on those planes if they weren’t on the planes?

Where are the people on the plane that crashed into the Pentagon?? Since people like you believe a missile hit it.

You still can’t answer these questions.

The facts are not on your side since you have yet to produce any to date.

Do either of you realize how much load was placed on the remaining support columns after the crash?

It far exceeded their design characteristics.

Every part of a buildings support structures need to remain intact if a building is to remain standing.

Remove enough of them and voila a collapsed building

No one coming forward is not faith, it is reality.

What is also reality is the infallibility of the human spirit.

Logic dictates that when you have thousands of people involved in a cover up ….eventually one of them is going to talk. For a whole host of reasons…money, conscience, 15 minutes of fame, etc etc. You can not keep that many people quiet for this long it is impossible. People are people, some will inevitably talk.

The building was 20 times over engineered, so even if 30-40% of the columns were removed load would not even double on the remaining. But the damage columns were not removed below the impact zones and hence would still be supporting the mass of the buildings below the impact zones. I know how to calculate load in various truss designs using the method of joints do you? The Israeli Insider is not a conspiracy site either, and whilst it has nothing to do with 9/11 it has everything to do with the fact that conspiracies happen and many people do remain silent. Its not my job to verify such occurences its up to individuals, one day when you get sick of the 6pm news sermons you may realise this

Where are all the people on those planes if they weren’t on the planes?

Read Nothwoods “carefully prepared aliasses”. But to be honest I do not know, you see it doesn’t get in the way of what happended. But for a pragmatist like you, your “investigation” starts at the conclusion and deems it too incredible, instead of working forwards and going where the evidence leads regardless of the practicle consequences

And yet the loads did increase past their design limits.

Of course the columns below the impact were intact, that is irrelevant.

The weakened columns at the impact site were insufficient to support the weight of the structure above them. When they failed and the floors above came crashing down, the kinetic energy released by the collapse of the floors above, transferred to the floors below increasing the loads on the unaffected support structures.

If people did com forward and talk, peopele like you would not listen, so what would be achieved?

Also prove to me that thousands must have been involved!

There is a military chain of command, people follow orders and carry out their roles in ignorance, I would imagine only 100 people would need to know the overall plan. This is why they have a classification system.

You need to prove thousands would have to be involved otherwise its baseless

The missing people don’t get in the way of your conspiracy theory??

That has to be the dumbest thing I’ve seen you write today.

The missing people are key to your theory. If they weren’t on the planes, then where are they?

You can’t dismiss hundreds of missing passengers simply because it doesn’t fit your theory

Kinetic energy you say…yap,yap. We may know the mass of a floor, but what velocity due to gravity could be gained considering the RESISTANCE between floors and the DISTANCE between floors? maybe 3 m/s? Compared to a 757 travelling at 200-220 m/s the energy involved is insignificant, and yet NIST claims the impacts had little effect on the integrity

The planes were at 25% normal occupacy and the buildings at 10%, explain that MR rational. Read northwoods!

No, if people that were involved in the conspiracy came forth…it would lend credence to your claims.

The glaring lack of such commentary screws with your theory in a major way.

There would have to have been many more people involved besides JUST military personnel. While you MIGHT be able to keep military people quiet for a long time, you are not going to be able to keep non military people quiet for very long.

It is simple logic that thousands would have had to have been involved.

You have to have the people that planted the explosives, you have to have the people that supposedly remotely flew the planes, you have to have all the passengers on the planes involved, you have to have all the emergency personnel in NYC involved, various military and governmental personnel, WTC employees that looked the other way as these people planted all the explosives, the list goes on and on numbering in the thousands…Oh and then you’d have to have the families of all the “victims” in on the plan too since they would have to convincingly lie to the cameras about their grief over the loss of their loved ones.

The sheer number of people that would have to be involved negates any possibility of this remaining a secret this long.

You are assigning skills to our federal government they simply don’t possess. They couldn’t even figure out how to plant WMDs in the Iraqi desert to support their claims of WMDs in Iraq…how in the hell are they going to pull off something like 9/11 without someone ratting them out?

People or not doesn’t stop a plane flying into a building you fucking dimwit. They could have been swapped with mock drones when the transponders were turned off, I don’t know, this is speculation, but it is possible. You take the govt for idiots like yourself, in reality they are much smarter and ruthless as you will learn one day

Not all of the planes…and besides what on earth does it matter how many people were on the planes. Even if there were 20 on each plane…where are they??

I did read northwoods, it is no more proof of your claim than the MJ-12 memo is proof of a worldwide conspiracy to control the world.

Besides it is from the Bay of Pigs era and all the details have subsequently come out and while the reasons for the operation were sound, the execution was pathetic at best. If you believe these memos, then how do you explain the utter incompetence of the actual operation?

Furthermore the government failed pretty miserably in keeping the entire operation a secret. It was front page news immediately after it happened.

So now you are speculating?

I thought you said you had the facts on your side?

You’re failing kid, in a very major way.

No nz, I’ve been on this planet long enough to know that the government, while not perfect , is too incompetent to pull off something like this. Perhaps when you’ve lived as long as I have you’ll understand that the government can barely do the job it’s supposed to do, let alone pull off 9/11

Youre like a typical dumbass leftist. Err but they couldn’t even plant fake wmd’s. Ever heard of double think? Just ignore things like the Tuskegee experiment they got away with for over 40 years. You are right that many would have to be involved in various parts of the operation, but the vast majority of those people would only be told a small fration of the picture. How do you think the Nazis got away with Op Himmler, or the Americans with Op Ajax in 1953? You have no idea, don’t pretend I’m the stupid one. You are a typical “mainstream smart” person, very good at your job no doubt, but a sucker in the scheme of things. I wish people like yourself would come around

Here is the NIST report you claim says there was little effect to the support structures from the impact of the planes.

It seems the report disagrees with your assessment…We’ll call this lie number four of yours.

http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm

I will quote an excerpt from this FAQ page

The damage from the impact of a Boeing 767 aircraft (which is about 20 percent bigger than a Boeing 707) into each tower is well documented in NCSTAR 1-2. The massive damage was caused by the large mass of the aircraft, their high speed and momentum, which severed the relatively light steel of the exterior columns on the impact floors. The results of the NIST impact analyses matched well with observations (from photos and videos and analysis of recovered WTC steel) of exterior damage and of the amount and location of debris exiting from the buildings. This agreement supports the premise that the structural damage to the towers was due to the aircraft impact and not to any alternative forces.

That very clearly shows you are lying yet again nz.

you’re not very good at this.

Care to try again kid?

You continue to lie about things and accuse me of being the one that doesn’t get it?

I have no delusions about my government, they’ve done some very unkind things to our own citizens and in the world at large.

But eventually everything comes out, someone talks, etc etc.

To date no one involved in this conspiracy has come forth. We are talking thousands of people.

Logic dictates that someone would have talked by now, yet there is deafening silence

You’re starting to sound like a Yogi Master, calling me a kid and raving about your many years. Many years being brainwashed and mulling ’round the pub don’t you mean? You didn’t have the access to such information in your day, so whilst you may have dreamt up grand conspiracies in your head, you had no way to verify anything. I know and have spoken to politicians, media scum and intelligence personnel. The fruit is on the tree, they are better funded, resourced and organised than you on your Fletcher sites can imagine

apparently you have no way of verifying things today.

You just stated that the NIST report concluded that the planes did not do enough damage to the support structures.

I linked to their website where they state

This agreement supports the premise that the structural damage to the towers was due to the aircraft impact and not to any alternative forces

I linked to their site.

You got caught in another lie , so you started attacking me again.

How many more times are you going to lie to “prove” your conspiracy theory??

I have no delusions about my government, they’ve done some very unkind things to our own citizens and in the world at large.

But eventually everything comes out, someone talks, etc etc

WOW SO YOU ADMITT THAT GOVERNMENTS DO CONSPIRE AT TIMES?

But the only way to know for sure is to wait for enough people to come forward??

That is so twisted
What about the collateral damage?
What if they killed your kids?

Yeah I’m a big liar, you happy now. One problem idiot this subject is not about me or you

No, I said they’ve done unkind things.

That does not imply a conspiracy.

How about trying to explain why the NIST doesn’t agree with what you claimed they said?

When you are trying to prove the subject, and you lie about the facts….it disproves your premise.

You’re right it’s not about you, it’s about 9/11 so why are you lying about your sources and facts?

But if eventually it does come out…….. Have you not invested in screeds of arguments against the “inside job” theory? What difference would Bush’s testimony make to all your “irrefutable” evidence?

Back to your lie about the NIST

How do you explain the fact their website doesn’t state what you claim

“unkind things”
like killing over 150 million people last century

Or X-raying 6000 little Jew kids to death

You bastard government apologist, you deserve to be shot!

You claimed the NIST report supports your conspiracy theory, but their own website says otherwise.

How do you explain that nz??

This is supposedly one of your “facts” that proves a conspiracy.

I expalin that by stating the FACT that they have changed their accounts on multiple occasions! You are seeing their latest edit!

Now tell me how whistleblowers could possibly change your mind!

How did we kill 150 million people in the 20th century?

Are you referring to WWI and WWII??

You do realize there were many more countries involved in those two wars than just us right?

You also know that we didn’t start either of those wars and came in late to both right?

Where do you get this claim of us killing 150 million people last century??

Robert M. Bowman (born 1934) was a former Director of Advanced Space Programs Development for the U.S. Air Force in the Ford and Carter administrations, and a former United States Air Force Lieutenant Colonel with 101 combat missions. He holds a Ph.D. in Aeronautics and Nuclear Engineering from the California Institute of Technology

This guy must be a kook also according to you!

Oh of course, how convenient…they changed their story..kid you are failing miserably.

IF someone came forward that was supposedly part of the conspiracy it would lend credence to your claims because…THEN you’d have someone with inside knowledge that could answer the questions you’ve raised.

IF that ever happened then yes one would have to at least hear what the person had to say and weigh that against other known facts.

But the problem for you and other truthers is that no one fitting that description has come forth to date

So you quote Wiki about some guy named Robert M Bowman.

What does he have to do with 9/11??

He has fought against missile defense.

Are you claiming he’s one of the co conspirators?

And just so we don’t forget,
How are you justifying your claim that the US government killed 150 million people in the 20th century??

Do you have a link to a cached page from the NIST that supports your claims?

“How did we kill 150 million people in the 20th century?

Are you referring to WWI and WWII??

You do realize there were many more countries involved in those two wars than just us right?

You also know that we didn’t start either of those wars and came in late to both right?

Where do you get this claim of us killing 150 million people last century??”

SORRY my statement assumed background knowledge. Like how Bush Snr was charged by Eisenhower under the trading woth the enemy act, for effectively being the largets financier of the 3 rd riech. What about IBM or the fact that the allies were ordered not to bomb GM, Ford, and GE installastions in Germany making panzer tanks etc. So when you say WE, you have to specify. I AM talking about the global financiers our governments serve due to debt. Sorry if it gets too complicated for you, I know the simple simon understanding you have is much more digestable.

If you can’t produce a cached page from their site that supports your claims, then there is no FACT that they changed it….only your word, and we’ve already established you lie, you even admitted it.

Bowman is a whistle blower, as is former Bush cabinet Reynolds.

Don’t listen to them, they cant be credentialled as they don’t design downtown apartment blocks

I’m done monkeying around with you Zombie. You probably get paid for this shit but I don’t. Either that or your wife and kids think you’re a dupe too. Say hi to Warren Tucker for me!

So you can’t support that claim either?

You refer to other conspiracy theories to support your claim?

I have extensive background knowledge of WWII and a pretty good grasp of the history of WWI.

I’d be happy to school you in WWII history if you’d care to take a shot at it.

WE , the United States did not arbitrarily kill 150 million people.

IIRC correctly in WWII approximately 80 million people died…wait, I’ll get the exact figures

Sorry I was off a bit, approximately 50-70 million people were killed in WWII. Close to 20 million of them JUST in the Soviet Union alone.

How exactly did we have anything to do with their deaths?? You do realize that the soviets were our allies in that war right? You do realize they were fighting the Nazis right? and not us

So we have accounted for less than have of your claim of 150 million deaths caused by the U.S.

Let’s examine the casualty lists for WWI shall we…see if we can find the missing 80 million people

Oh bummer for you, the estimated casualties both civilian and military only equal 37 million.

Let’s see, 70 million plus 37 million equals 107 million dead in two wars….neither of them caused by us.

Where did you get your numbers again??

No , I get paid to build buildings, as I have stated numerous times.

I know you are getting tired of it, you keep getting caught in lies.

Where did you get your figure of 150 million people killed by the U.S. in the 20th century?

Or should we just add this lie to your list of lies??

As far as the guy you linked, ok he’s a whistleblower…but not for 9/11. How does that prove your case?

Must suck to get caught in so many lies nz.

You have absolutely no credibility at this point, so no wonder you don’t want to continue our little chat.

I never said they were killed by the US! FUCK MAN WHATS YOUR PROBLEM?

wait a minute where on earth did you come up with the claim we X-rayed 6000 Jewish kids to death?

That’s going to need some support before I’ll even give that one credence.

I’m not apologizing for my government, I’ve already stated I’m not a big fan of it, but I’m also not a nutjob and realize that your claims can’t stand up to scrutiny.

You are so secure in your beliefs that you need to shoot me to prove your point? Wow, so violent for a supposed searcher of truth.

Did you or did you not say this

Remember we have been talking about the U.S. conspiring to pull off 9/11

“unkind things”
like killing over 150 million people last century

Or X-raying 6000 little Jew kids to death

You bastard government apologist, you deserve to be shot!

So are you denying your own words??

You even claimed I was apologizing for my government…the U.S. government

How can you sit there and claim you didn’t mean the U.S.??

Damn dude you suck at this.

OK $1000 RIGHT NOW that “we” being the US and Israel irradiated 6000 kids to death in 1951, with US taxpayer money!

Send me your email and I will send you my full name and bank account details

Not only did you claim the U.S. did it by quoting my comment of Unkind things

You claimed 150 million deaths

in the two major wars of the 20th century a total of approximately 110 million people were killed, not a 150 million, 110 million.

The remaining wars of the 20th century we were involved in barely add up to a few million.

You are getting desperate kid.

Show your link

still waiting for the link to your source that we killed 150 million people too.

alright kid, I’m out of here for the night. Time to crash out.

We’ll continue this tomorrow.

Make sure to do your research and show me how we killed 150 million people in the 20th century.

As far as your claims about 9/11, you’ve yet to refute any of my claims and have instead been caught in several lies. It’s not looking good for you in your effort to prove your case.

I was refering to governments in general killing 150 million last century, I did not say the US alone, understand?

But your government did commision the deaths of 6000 jews in 1951

http://web.israelinsider.com/Views/3998.htm

I was’nt even aware your government is the US? How am I to know where you are, I’m not the spook here! I thought since you have been on Clares case, that you must be a homegrown NZ scumbag

Thanks for clicking on the link above (and we really mean it, btw) – really looking forward to having you as a contestant, prick – and the studio reserves the right to use your image for promotional purposes.

Since the ratings debacle with gary – the network is changing up the show and giving it a makeover for our Fall Line-up – so there are some new rules this time.

1. Members of the studio audience will be able to submit their own questions – any time.

2. I need to tell you at this point that there will be no -construction- questions, so you can take your decades of experience, put it in the back pockets of your overalls, and walk off a roof.

3. The new title of the show is ‘Ugly on the Inside”.

OK let’s go.

Your first question in our swinging internet dick segment is:

Why has no-one seen clear footage of a jumbo jet crashing into the most protected and security monitored building in the world?

(by the way, this is not a yes or no answer)

For fifty points, prick (I don’t know what your real name is so I will just call you prick – can I call you prick?) – why has no-one seen clear footage of a jumbo jet crashing into the most protected and security monitored building in the world?

Your time starts now …

… and your bonus question – in this section is :

Why were there no body parts recovered from the incident – occuring on the same day – in Pennsylvania?

This segment of the show is bought to you by the Coca Cola Corporation – Helping you to help them steal India’s water – then sell it back in bottles to the people that live there.

Now its time for a message from our key sponsor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IfGUSBSF4I

We’ll be back after a break – while prick thinks things over.

Clare’s shadow, how can “we” be attacking “you” personally? Its a site where we all use screen names hence no attacks are personal, harden up you pussy.
I would also like to point out that this is an ‘opinion’ web site where people have ‘opinions’ (opinions, you know, like the ‘opinions’ you have).
So we are not allowed to quote any web sites YOU consider to be “kook” web sites, as though you had clicked on the links, could you provide us with a list of approved web sites we are allowed to quote from? Even though AE911 contains about 800 architects and engineers more qualified than you CLAIM to be, oh you have 25 years experience in building 100+ floor buildings do you? well hell you’re right I can’t debate a god such as you CLAIM you are. But we are allowed to have opinions. Anyways I claim to have 250 years experience as a master kung fu master and can eat an entire ford explorer in one sitting, I can also fly, speak 17 languages, fluently and invented the internal combustion engine.

Now then Clare’s shadow (sad name by the way) youtube is not a Kook site it too contains peoples opinions, some right some wrong.
It also contains footage like this link that Ewing put up earlier (about when you were cracking open your 8th beer for the morning)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bbn7qk61NZ4

its only 9 seconds long, go on watch it, I dare you.
Come on 9 seconds we all know you have the time.

I’d like you, with the great wealth of knowledge you CLAIM to have how fire did this, because if you think fire brought down this building in this way you are not an engineer or even a builder or even someone who once met a builder in a pub.

And your argument that because some idiots subscribe to the ridiculous theory that no planes hit the WTC towers therefore we all think no planes hit the towers is so weak and shows your B&W mentality. I will however state my opinion that no plane hit the pentagon, it was a winged vehicle true, but it was not an airliner.

Also, name the 5 largest buildings you ‘built’, the number of floors in descending order, what your role was and what company you worked for.
You can still remain anonymous.
Unless you are full of shit, as I suspect you are.
====

Thanks for trying to save us from our opinions though.

Poor little “Clares shadow” had to go to sleep…Lets all feel for poor little mind that got tired after posting 72 comments in one days work..awww

Watch the WTC tower fall in this video for a start. If anyone wants to dispute the gravity defying fall of WTC7,please refer them to the looney bin because, fire or a hole in the structure cannot produce a free fall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezIU6ZxYU3A

Does this site have another troll?

Or has the troll of many disguises, whose credibility has hit zero, decided to change his name again?

I counted 78 posts from 6:28 am to 10:23 pm!

Did discovery, and publication, of the troll’s passport photo http://tinyurl.com/lfbopr cause him to come completely unglued?

When did this “new” troll come on the scene?

Answer: a short time after my post August 26, 2009, 8:04 am that included some of the best internet links available exposing the official story as being a fraud. Were these 78 posts designed to be a smoke screen to distract readers from the links that I posted which in themselves completely destroy the government’s 9/11 conspiracy theory?

Also, and even more important, our “resident imposter” is blasted by Scott on August 29th, 2009 (the “Hi Troll” article) and suddenly we have a “new” troll on September 1st posting more than 70 messages (on this thread) in one day!

Has the old troll snapped?

A very important clue can be found at the “new” troll’s post at 7:14 am… “You see, Clare Swinney is too scared to debate me.”

My, we look at his new name and his post at 7:14 am and can only conclude that this “new” troll has the same obsession with Clare Swinney as the old troll did!

Then we have this clue at 11:22 am…

“Why don’t you tell clare to open up her forum to opposing views.

or are you all too afraid of your facts that they can’t stand the light of day?”

Obsessed with being unwelcome at Clare’s site… just like Gary the spammer!

Feed trolls and they will keep coming back.

Here is what I left for links just before this “new” troll began wasting reader’s time:

THE TOP 40 REASONS TO DOUBT THE OFFICIAL STORY OF SEPTEMBER 11th, 2001
http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20041221155307646

http://911truth.org/downloads/Family_Steering_Cmte_review_of_Report.pd f

Technical Articles http://www.ae911truth.org/techarts.php _ http://firefightersfor911truth.org/

Medical Professionals for 9/11 Truth http://mp911truth.org/

41 U.S. Counter-Terrorism and Intelligence Agency Veterans Challenge the Official Account of 9/11 by Alan Miller
http://patriotsquestion911.com/Counterterrorism_Veterans.pdf

29 Structural & Civil Engineers Cite Evidence for Controlled Explosive Demolition in Collapses of All 3 WTC High-Rises on 9/11
http://www.ae911truth.org/downloads/29_Structural-Civil_Engineers_2009 -06-17.pdf

Twenty-five U.S. Military Officers Challenge Official Account of 9/11
http://patriotsquestion911.com/Article%20Military%20Officers%20Challen ge%20911.pdf

Eight U.S. State Department Veterans Challenge the Official Account of 9/11
http://patriotsquestion911.com/Article%20State%20Dept%20911.pdf

http://www.journalof911studies.com/ _ http://www.familiesofseptember11.org/

http://nafeez.blogspot.com/ _ http://www.william911.com/ _
http://www.justacitizen.com/

___________________________________

“Improbable Collapse: The Demolition of Our Republic” is the first film to look at the events of September 11, 2001 from a scientific perspective.

On September 11, 2001 the World Trade Center Twin Towers disintegrated in a manner that scientists say resembled deliberately calculated implosions. The facts open for discussion include: at 5:20 p.m. that same day another building, the 47 story WTC 7, completely collapsed within 70 feet of its footprint in 6.6 seconds. These three buildings became the first such structures to ever suffer complete collapse due to fire and damage.

The film closely examines one of the world’s worst catastrophes from a civil engineering perspective. Using photo and video footage as well as expert scientific testimony, the film thoroughly examines the official reports, offering varied criticisms of the official findings, while raising a more plausible hypothesis. The findings from these scientific experts have been quietly ignored by both government investigations and the mainstream media. “The dramatic collapse of World Trade Center 7 is something everyone ought to see . . . It really does have the characteristics of an explosive demolition.” – Dr. Steven Jones, physicist, author of “Why Indeed Did the WTC Buildings Completely Collapse?

http://www.improbablecollapse.com/

___________________________________

An honest evaluation of the evidence exposing the official version of 9/11 might thin out the trolls on this site. Sadly, the truth has no appeal to trolls, because it would hinder their agenda to spread disinformation and be the timewasters that they are.

Posted by Philip | August 26, 2009, 8:04 am

___________________________________

The “new” troll is terrified of (and cannot answer) the truth posted above, just like Gary whose credibility is now zero.

The “new” troll is either Gary using a new alias, or “alex search”. Both are not welcome at Clare’s trollproof site, and for good reason.

Feed trolls and they will keep on coming back.

http://www.rense.com/general87/trolls.htm

My previous post has video with evidence for the cause of the free fall. Here’s the math which confirms the demolition of WTC towers for the duds who can’t figure whats in front of their eyes.

Part One – Sept 12, 2001=(1/2)(accel gravity)*([time]sq)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMVMKLizH0w

and

What Will It Take? . . . A Short Physics Lesson Perhaps – This Is WTC-7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ba4LuCcgZj0&NR=1

I see you dimwits continue to link to conspiracy sites to prove a conspiracy.

You are making fools of yourself

You can not prove a conspiracy by citing a conspiracy.

Good grief you people really are delusional.

Hey phillip,

I’ve already caught your buddy nz in four lies last night.

Perhaps if I get bored I’ll pick apart your so called “truth”

How many years in the building industry do you have under your belt?

I don’t need to even know what “the official” story is. I know from experience how those towers collapsed, and it had nothing to do with governmental forces. It had everything to do with terrorists crashing airliners into the buildings and removing enough support structures to cause the collapse.

You can’t logically refute me, all you can do is link to youtube videos and kook websites devoid of any credibility.

Here is how WT7 fell

Many conspiracy theorists point to FEMA’s preliminary report, which said there was relatively light damage to WTC 7 prior to its collapse. With the benefit of more time and resources, NIST researchers now support the working hypothesis that WTC 7 was far more compromised by falling debris than the FEMA report indicated. “The most important thing we found was that there was, in fact, physical damage to the south face of building 7,” NIST’s Sunder tells PM. “On about a third of the face to the center and to the bottom — approximately 10 stories — about 25 percent of the depth of the building was scooped out.” NIST also discovered previously undocumented damage to WTC 7’s upper stories and its southwest corner.

NIST investigators believe a combination of intense fire and severe structural damage contributed to the collapse, though assigning the exact proportion requires more research. But NIST’s analysis suggests the fall of WTC 7 was an example of “progressive collapse,” a process in which the failure of parts of a structure ultimately creates strains that cause the entire building to come down. Videos of the fall of WTC 7 show cracks, or “kinks,” in the building’s facade just before the two penthouses disappeared into the structure, one after the other. The entire building fell in on itself, with the slumping east side of the structure pulling down the west side in a diagonal collapse.

According to NIST, there was one primary reason for the building’s failure: In an unusual design, the columns near the visible kinks were carrying exceptionally large loads, roughly 2000 sq. ft. of floor area for each floor. “What our preliminary analysis has shown is that if you take out just one column on one of the lower floors,” Sunder notes, “it could cause a vertical progression of collapse so that the entire section comes down.”

There are two other possible contributing factors still under investigation: First, trusses on the fifth and seventh floors were designed to transfer loads from one set of columns to another. With columns on the south face apparently damaged, high stresses would likely have been communicated to columns on the building’s other faces, thereby exceeding their load-bearing capacities.

Second, a fifth-floor fire burned for up to 7 hours. “There was no firefighting in WTC 7,” Sunder says. Investigators believe the fire was fed by tanks of diesel fuel that many tenants used to run emergency generators. Most tanks throughout the building were fairly small, but a generator on the fifth floor was connected to a large tank in the basement via a pressurized line. Says Sunder: “Our current working hypothesis is that this pressurized line was supplying fuel [to the fire] for a long period of time.”

WTC 7 might have withstood the physical damage it received, or the fire that burned for hours, but those combined factors — along with the building’s unusual construction — were enough to set off the chain-reaction collapse.

You randomly exclude facts that don’t fit your scenario. That is not proper scientific examination. To properly assess a situation you have to take all facts into consideration before drawing conclusions.

By ignoring facts that don’t fit your story, you discredit your story.

Oh, here’s a link…I know you dimwits will claim PM is “part of the conspiracy” but they have been a respected source of scientific information for decades upon decades….

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html?page=5#wtc7

Hey lombeer or whatever you’re calling yourself.

I’m not pointing it out because it bothers me, I have a very thick skin.

I point it out because ad hominem attacks destroy your credibility.

Call me all the names you want, it doesn’t change the facts of the case.

Nice try at a Red Herring argument though.

singh, your videos prove nothing.

You conspiracy nuts string together disparate facts and call it “proof”

How many structures have you built singh?

How many have you torn down?

Are you capable of speaking for yourself or do you constantly have to have others do your talking??

I’m thinking you can’t speak for yourself since you continue to link to kook websites and youtube videos.

Which is it?

The “new” troll is terrified of (and cannot answer) the truth posted above (September 2, 2009, 6:29 am), just like Gary whose credibility is now zero.

The “new” troll is either Gary using a new alias, or “alex search”. Both are not welcome at Clare’s trollproof site, and for good reason.

29 Structural & Civil Engineers Cite Evidence for Controlled Explosive Demolition in Collapses of All 3 WTC High-Rises on 9/11
http://www.ae911truth.org/downloads/29_Structural-Civil_Engineers_2009 -06-17.pdf

The complete fraud Glenn Beck uses the junk science from the hacks at popularmechanics. Nice try. Total BS.
___________________________________

Capt. Russ Wittenberg, U.S. Air Force, is a former fighter pilot with over 100 combat missions and a retired commercial pilot, who flew for Pan Am and United Airlines for 35 years.

According to Capt.Wittenberg, “The government story they handed us
about 9/11 is total B.S. plain and simple.” [30]

In the 2007 documentary video, 9/11 Ripple Effect 31, he said “I flew the two actual aircraft which were involved in 9/11; the Fight number 175 and Flight 93, the 757 that allegedly went down in Shanksville and Flight 175 is
the aircraft that’s alleged to have hit the South Tower.
“I don’t believe it’s possible for, like I said, for a terrorist, a so-called terrorist, to train on a [Cessna] 172, then jump in a cockpit of a 757-767 class cockpit, and vertical navigate the aircraft, lateral navigate the aircraft, and fly the airplane at speeds exceeding its design limit speed by well over 100 knots, make high-speed high-banked turns, exceeding — pulling probably 5, 6, 7 G’s. And the aircraft would literally fall out of the sky. I
couldn’t do it and I’m absolutely positive they couldn’t do it.” [32]

Regarding Flight 77, which allegedly hit the Pentagon, Capt. Wittenberg said, ”The airplane could not have flown at those speeds which they said it did without going into what they call a high speed stall. The
airplane won’t go that fast if you start pulling those high G maneuvers at those bank angles. … To expect this alleged airplane to run these maneuvers with a total amateur at the controls is simply ludicrous …

“It’s roughly a 100 ton airplane. And an airplane that weighs 100 tons all assembled is still going to have 100 tons of disassembled trash and parts after it hits a building. There was no wreckage from a 757 at the Pentagon. … The vehicle that hit the Pentagon was not Flight 77. We think, as you may have heard before, it was a cruise missile.” [33]

http://patriotsquestion911.com/Article%20Military%20Officers%20Challenge%20911.pdf
___________________________________

Popular Mechanics has zero credibility regarding 9/11; just like the trolls on this site:

Gary, and his imaginary friends.

Oh, and “alex search”.

C Shadow, You and the NIST kooks are the ones who selectively bring up theories to support your lies. There is a guy by the name of William Rodriguez who’d like to give his account about explosions in the basement of the towers. But the scum commission for 9-11 and NIST will not take his first hand testimony. Before you go off on William and call him names, I’ve seen the reports coming out live about explosions in the basement of the towers.
Your incredible stories are just that. They add nothing to the official lies. I’ve done the math from the videos and have concluded that the official story is a coverup.

There are longer exposes eleswhere, but the physics of the collapse as seen here are clearly pointing to a demolition. If you cannot explain the collapse with math then you need to be sent for a psych evaluation.

See Part One – Sept 12, 2001=(1/2)(accel gravity)*([time]sq)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMVMKLizH0w

and

What Will It Take? . . . A Short Physics Lesson Perhaps – This Is WTC-7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ba4LuCcgZj0&NR=1

Philip

You continue to quote conspiracy sites to prove a conspiracy.

Do you have any concept of how stupid that makes you look??

Popular Mechanics is a well respected scientific/mechanical journal with decades upon decades of stellar performance…

BUT since they don’t agree with your cherry picked facts you dismiss them.

You can’t compare the stellar reputation built over decades, with some conspiracy site that sprung up a few years ago.

It is like comparing apples to oranges.

I must by psychic because as predicted you don’t address the facts presented, you denigrate the source.

I deal in facts, not innuendo or half truths. I leave that to the conspiracy nuts.

No airplane debris at the Pentagon huh?

You want to stick with that claim philip?

I’ll give you a chance to rescind that one before I destroy that contention.

’shadow’ as I shall now call you, oh that was great popular mechanics? popular frikin’ mechanics? you are using popular mechanics as your irrefutable proof that WTC collapsed due to US structural engineers not being able to build building properly? Hey, way to deflect the question. No really now I don’t buy into conspiracy theory web sites like PopMech. That article is so unbelievably vague. Now I’m going to quote you.
“Videos of the fall of WTC 7 show cracks, or “kinks,” in the building’s facade just before the two penthouses disappeared into the structure, one after the other. The entire building fell in on itself, with the slumping east side of the structure pulling down the west side in a diagonal collapse.”

Now in a round about way you answered the question truthfully. It collapsed from the centre, strange that as the damage was on the outside. Oh but wait, there was a fire, thats right because every steel frame building that has catches fire collapses onto its self in to a perfect little pile.

Also since you can’t / won’t provide any proof of your credentials (25+ years exp in ‘building stuff’ model airplanes more like) I’ll have to assume you are lying. We need proof or you are just another blowhard.
You are a true troll, you can’t debate. You just whimper like a little girlie-man whenever someone asks about WTC7. Poor troll its a sad life.
How many posts yesterday? 70+ what do you do for a job again? oh pro-troll, thats right.

Oh and Lombeer is how you say my actual name. Tool.

And if you think I have time to go through what you put other readers through yesterday… sorry dip$hit! I don’t get paid by the establishment to do what you’re doing here.

[(:] http://tinyurl.com/mkdy2y [:)]

“…as predicted YOU don’t address the facts presented, you denigrate the source.”

Care to explain this:

http://tinyurl.com/mkdy2y

or are you just going to “denigrate the source”?

Poor deluded establishment asset.

Singh, you are certifiable

The NIST , me, and many many others are not changing stories to fit some scenario.

They looked at the evidence and drew conclusions based on engineering and scientific knowledge.

Their tests can be recreated time and time again that show exactly how it all went down.

Still waiting to hear how many buildings you’ve built Singh.

I’ve built dozens in my career, how many have you built again??

Oh that’s right philip

Don’t challenge the evidence, attack the person posting it.

You’re making a fool of yourself.

Philip

You have no credibility by continuing to link to conspiracy sites. You can not prove a conspiracy by citing a conspiracy as your proof.

Do you still wish to stick with your story that no debris from a 757 was found at the Pentagon??

Yeah I know phil,

You wouldn’t want to get caught in a lie would you??

Not like nz did four times last night.

Yes or no, do you still maintain there was no debris from a 757 found in and around the Pentagon??

Lombeer,

You are not quoting me, you are quoting PM and scientists and engineers.

Funny how you leave out this part of the findings..it must be second nature for you to cherry pick facts to suit your scenario.

Here is the part you forgot to include about the damage to WT7

Many conspiracy theorists point to FEMA’s preliminary report, which said there was relatively light damage to WTC 7 prior to its collapse. With the benefit of more time and resources, NIST researchers now support the working hypothesis that WTC 7 was far more compromised by falling debris than the FEMA report indicated. “The most important thing we found was that there was, in fact, physical damage to the south face of building 7,” NIST’s Sunder tells PM. “On about a third of the face to the center and to the bottom — approximately 10 stories — about 25 percent of the depth of the building was scooped out.” NIST also discovered previously undocumented damage to WTC 7’s upper stories and its southwest corner.

To properly draw a conclusion you have to include ALL the evidence, not just the parts you need to address your theory.

It’s no wonder you people can come up with conspiracy theories, you cherry pick facts and try to string those cherry picked facts together in order to “prove” your conspiracy theories.

It’s easy to come up with a conspiracy theory. It’s far harder to prove it under direct scrutiny

Lombeer

If you think I’m lying, ask me questions about constructing buildings.

You’ve yet to even attempt to refute the facts I’ve presented, you continue to try to discredit me, instead of focusing on the facts.

You are losing credibility

Come on Phil

Yes or no

Do you stand by your contention that there was no debris from a 757 found at the Pentagon??

You are Gary.

The site’s “resident imposter”!

Clare won’t allow you to litter her website with attacks on other bloggers and establishment BS?

Boo hoo…

The sympathy that you will receive at this site might fill a thimble; just like reliable 9/11 info from Popular Mechanics: one of the most notorious sites for September 11th disinfo. Your classes at Tavistock should have taught you that. Keep slipping up, and Henry Kissinger may have to replace you.

http://tinyurl.com/nm287t

Get a new play book, and peddle your wares somewhere else, troll.

Another phony site with “photos” of “plane debris” at the Pentagon isn’t going to impress those who (unlike you) actually read the articles at Uncensored.

http://911rippleeffect.com/ Watch this video, troll, and see for yourself how bankrupt your position on 9/11 is.

The movie can be seen here: http://tinyurl.com/nkthr7

“Another phony site with “photos” of “plane debris” at the Pentagon isn’t going to impress those who (unlike you) actually read the articles at Uncensored.”

How about Rense? Is that a “phony” site too?

Photos Of Flt 77 Wreckage Inside The Pentagon
http://www.rense.com/general32/phot.htm

Eight posts already from the site’s “resident imposter” since 9:27 am

Somebody get Gary back on his Prozac, or it’s going to be a long day

Of course, ignore evidence that doesn’t fit the story.

There are dozens of photos of plane debris at the Pentagon.

Both inside and outside the building.

There is no way anyone had enough time to plant this debris.

Here are the pictures…if you’re brave enough to have your beliefs challenged

http://911review.com/attack/pentagon/imgs/debris_small_2.jpg

http://rense.com/general32/fuselagefragment_MVC-027S.jpg

Even found some pictures of the debris from one of your kook sites

http://rense.com/general32/landinggear002.jpg

http://rense.com/general32/pillarwreckage.jpg

http://www.911myths.com/assets/images/db_images/db_Pentagon_Debris_110.jpg

http://www.911myths.com/assets/images/db_images/db_Pentagon_Debris_111.jpg

http://www.911myths.com/assets/images/db_images/db_Pentagon_Debris_91.jpg

http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/398523a1a219.jpg

These are just some of the photographs I found of 757 debris around and in the Pentagon

You’ve been caught in a lie Philip.

So much for your credibility.

So are you calling Rense.com a phony site??

Some of you nitwits have linked to this site in order to “prove” me wrong.

So are you going to call your own website source ….phony??

You got caught in a lie and I can’t wait to see you try to backpedal out of this one.

I predict more name calling, and very little contrition.

Who is Gary?

Look you dimwits

Continuing to attack me doesn’t prove your case.

What it does prove is that you fear scrutiny of your theories.

This is a typical tactic of conspiracy theorists.

Holy cr@p is this bozzo still here.

Philip I don’t think this is gary I think this is someone much worse. Given the time on his hands he must be a currently unemployed building construction god.

I noticed the “prick” conveniently avoided answering your questions Scott. I wonder how you turn him off?

It’s not difficult to plant “evidence” inside the building.

Apparently it didn’t convince Capt. Wittenberg, “U.S. Air Force (former fighter pilot with over 100 combat missions and a retired commercial pilot, who flew for Pan Am and United Airlines for 35 years).”

Surprise us by watching (and explaining) 9/11 Ripple Effect http://tinyurl.com/nkthr7

How the “plane” squeezed through such a small hole?

It’s wings folded and all the plane went inside the building?

Don’t tell me… back to Popular Mechanics?

Still waiting for you to explain this:

http://tinyurl.com/mkdy2y

ahh lorraine back again I see

If you must know I happen to be home right now due to illness…but that is beside the point

The fact remains, I’ve caught nz in four lies

And good ole Phil here in at least one lie so far…namely his lie that there was no debris from a 757 outside the Pentagon.

Phil, if you look at the hole in the outside of the building it is gigantic, plenty large enough to have been caused by a 757.

The picture you are referring too is a small hole in the C ring

That is an exit hole INSIDE the building, not an entrance hole

But you keep on linking to conspiracy sites

Even one of the sites you linked shows pictures of plane debris ON THE DAY OF THE ATTACK…there was not enough time on the day of the attack to plant all of that debris.

None of you can refute the facts of the case. All you’ve done is attack me, go right ahead, I can take it, but it destroys your credibility.

And besides, troll, the Pentagon is just one aspect of 9/11 that you decided you could have some fun with:

which is why you took hold of my Capt. Wittenberg quote to beat me over the head with.

You don’t seem as light on your feet to explain the rest of the official story.

I didn’t “lie” as you so gleefully pointed out, I quoted a Captain in the U.S. Air Force. So get your facts straight before you call someone else a liar, troll.

Philip, you moron

Linking to 9/11 truther websites does not prove your case.

Here is my answer

Stop linking to conspiracy sites and try to defend your beliefs on your own.

No philip you lied by stating there was no 757 debris at the Pentagon

I showed you several photos of debris in and around the Pentagon.

That is the lie you made.

Nice try at the red herring though.

The troll is “home right now due to illness”.

Something Big Brother didn’t have a vaccine for?

You didn’t catch me in a lie, Bozo, just hallucinating from your last round of “immunizations.”

Stop lying idiot. Factual accounts are factual accounts whether that suits you or not.

How about answering the questions that numerous people have asked you?

Can’t you do it?

He’s not being paid by the establishment to answer questions, Lorraine, this clown is here to waste our time and spread his BS far and wide.

And he’s home sick!!!

They’re probably giving him sick time and a new play book.

I wonder what they think of the money they spent on his Tavistock “education”?

Can you imagine if “alex search” was home sick on the same day?

Then again, this could be “alex search”, he loves to play these games.

Answer the questions, troll, we haven’t got all day.

What about our “resident imposter” / scientific genius / sudden expert on 9/11?

For those who may have missed the airborne troll… click here:

http://tinyurl.com/d9uslm

His expertise prior to Tavistock and intense research into September 11th?

Click here > http://tinyurl.com/c3k559

I would say the “I am home due to illness” is a load of rubbish too Philip.

How many people if they ARE ill spend all day endlessly spamming websites from early morning till late at night?

I commend nz_truth too for the great job he did last night presenting the facts. Just a shame the ignorant bozzo wasn’t paying attention.

Come on troll-ite answer the questions – we are all waiting.

snnnnooooorrrreeee

shadow you are “If you must know I happen to be home right now due to illness…but that is beside the point” is it mental illness? only asking cos I care.. xx perhaps Garry can recommend some good SSRIs for you to take.

Get well soon Clare’s Shadow. I am enjoying your posts. You really have got these crazies up against the wall. They can find no support for their loopy beliefs except from whacko sites like whale and rense. Their lack of knowledge regarding building stuctures is only matched by their ignorance of basic medicine.

Oh, Lombeer, you recently complained about someone spelling your name incorrectly. Suck it up.

Regards,
Gary
( with one r )

Shadow has probably got the swine and is suffering hallucinations from taking his Tamiflu

oh look gawee has a fwend now, no more playing with himself and having to invent friends, super, no really Gaz I’m happy for you. We know how lonely you are.
You trolls are not interested in any kind of rational debate, plus nothing we ever say is admissible according to you the ways of the troll. I’ve asked the shadow troll questions and all he does is deflect and quote satirical articles by PopMech. It seems we are having fun at the expense of the trolls and not the other way around.

Ok shad I’ll repeat my questions to establish your credibility

1) What buildings have you worked on?
2) the height of said buildings?
3) Your role in their construction?
4) The companies you worked for?

I have no cred remember I’m a “conspiracy theorist”

Oh and Gaz, fill out the troll test we are still waiting.

Here’s an article for the shadow monster to get his knickers in a twist over.

Israel did 911

http://theinfounderground.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5367&start=0&sid=e80bfe088cf1ccec88d6399cd9f4ee14

But hey it’s all coincidence isn’t it? Our governments love us and would never do anything to hurt us. How pathetically naive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg7jA-H-jMo

SHADOW, they are not “conspiracy sites” it is just information, that may or may not be true that you have to apply logic to.

Information shouldn’t be divided up the way you do or it becomes SELF CENSORSHIP!

If you quote Popular Mechanics why can’t I quote Infowars? You don’t have to take either as the bible, but you should have an open mind you information NAZI.

I read from ABC,CNN,AP,REUTERS,GAURDIAN and “conspiracy sites” because the mainstream won’t report on the activities of people like William Rodriguez.

This is how you form a more balanced worldview! But regardless I’m done talking to you. Anyone who can view all the major 9/11 truth movies and look at building 7’s collapse and think the official story is reasonable, to the point where you will spend significant time and effort doing the governments job and defending it, is frankly retarded. Part of me feels sorry for you living in a mental prison, but the fact that your view perpetuates untold murder and harm to innocent people, pisses me off! We have exhausted diplomatic means with you; you are beyond help and need to be shot alongside Bush, Rice, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Kissinger, Rockefeller, Pearle, Kristol etc etc. Burn in hell coward

Good evening Earth ! Hope you’re doing ok out there
- and welcome – Tonights contestant joins us in our Burbank studios

covered inexplicabily in his own urine and ranting like a fuckwit

[cheesy but uplifting music]

A little bit of background on him – he was born and raised in a
trailer park outside Butte, Montana. Growing up his interests
included hurting small animals, mathmatics, and playing the biscuit game alone.

He has been in and out of mental institutions his entire adult
life – and now – after a series of failed relationships, enjoys
travelling the internet with his chest puffed out trying to rub his

winky in people’s faces

Welcome to the show, prick, and it’s great to have you with us!

I gotta tell ya, your -marathon- efforts yesterday caught the attention of our producers – and they told me to tell you that – if you do well on this quiz show – then then they would like to
talk to you to look at hiring you – in a presenter role – for an
exciting new show that the network is planning for the Christmas season ! huh ? huh ? Whadduhyuh think ?

The working title for the show is : “Waving My Weiner Around The Internet”

The successful applicant will of course need to have a bloated,
swollen, overblown, sense of his own self importance – they
must be lonely, and they must aggressively & rudely push
their own stunted worldview on an unsuspecting planet – and
you have proved that in spades. So fingers crossed, huh?

Applicants will naturally be drug tested – so you may have to
ditch the meth. Sorry.

(shoulder slap) OK – lets get back to it

Our first question for you – get it right and you qualify for our ‘fuck you’ round

The question is: “Most spooks end their career with broken
families, drinking themselves to death as a result of looking at
the world from such an unnatural angle – True or False?”

you-have-sixty-seconds ….

I have been over to Clares site and there is a guy over there calling himself Lee Henderson. Posting what sounds surprising like the twaddle shadow is spamming here.

-times up- !

Sorry prick – it would have been good to get some early points in there…

Never mind! Moving on to our next question to qualify for our special ‘fuck you’ round

Here goes:

Who said these famous words?
“I don’t see why we need to stand by and watch a country go communist due to the irresponsibility of its people. The issues are much too important for the Chilean voters to be left to decide for themselves.”

Bbbbeeeeepppp. Times Up – You failed.

Next question quiz master…

The correct answer there is
Henry Kissinger, Secretary of State under Richard Nixon (& giant fu@&en douchebag), about Chile prior to the CIA overthrow of the democratically elected government of socialist President Salvadore Allende in 1973

You can still get bonus points on this round if you can quote verbatum his now famous and widely known statement he once made about -Military- -Men-.

-and … ok-go-

Thank you Lorraine

You get a car

We have some great prizes going tonight – once, again prick – if you fail to learn a -damn- thing from history not-only-will-you-be-doomed-to-repeat-it but you will -also- be taking home ’societal collapse’ and a brand -spanking- new edition of our new product :’Rising Crime’

Yippee I need a new car.

Alrighty – the answer there was Henry Kissinger thinks that military men are – and I quote :

“stupid dumb animals”

nnniiiiiccceeee one Henry – after all they’ve done for you and your bank balance. Shame.

No points from prick on the board there – we will see how he does in the next round – right after these messages …

[cheesy but uplifting muzak]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtJDZmwh5Bc

[off air during the break - whispered tones]

What the hell was that, prick? You had -nothing- to offer out there – I don’t wanna pressure you but if you turn into another -gary- then you’re -through-

So the shadow prick might learn something here’s some more info on the upstanding citizen Kissinger (NOT)

Many people have asked about the origin of a quote from Henry Kissinger regarding military men, which came from Worodward and Bernstein’s “The Final Days” (1976). Here is the complete paragraph – and for contect, the one following – excerpted from pages 194-195 of the second Touchstone paperback edition (1994)
In Haig’s presence, Kissinger referred pointedly to military men as “dumb, stupid animals to be used” as pawns for foreign policy. Kissinger often took up a post outside the doorway to Haig’s office and dressed him down in front of the secretaries for alleged acts of incompetence with which Haig was not even remotely involved. Once when the Air Force was authorized to resume bombing of North Vietnam, the planes did not fly on certain days because of bad weather. Kissinger assailed Haig. He complained bitterly that the generals had been screamin for the limits to be taken off but that now their pilots were afraid to go up in a little fog. The country needed generals who could win battles, Kissinger said, not good briefers like Haig.

[paragraph]
On another occasion, when Haig was leaving for a trip to Cambodia to meet with Premier Lon Nol, Kissinger escorted him to a staff car, where reporters and a retinue of aides waited. As Haig bent to get into the automobile, Kissinger stopped him and began polishing the single star on his shoulder. “Al, if you’re a good boy, I’ll get you another one,” he said.

SOURCE:

Bob Woodward & Carl Bernstein
The Final Days
second Touchstone paperback edition (1994)
Chapter 14, pp. 194-195

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2003/06/266114.shtml

[cue: uplifting but cheesy muzak that kind of makes one's soul want to shrivel up and die]

Okay we’re back – and this segment of the show is bought to you by the -Monsanto Corporation- the corporation with a two hundred year business plan to suck the life out of the plan-neeeet.

Prick ? No points so far sooooo let’s goooo get some !

Your question for 50 points –
If you believe jet fuel can melt steel in an hour – then why don’t jumbo jets fall out of the sky on a regular basis? Your time starts now, prick…

Scott E asks: “What type of cyberspace prick bully asshole calls himself Claires Shadow, Claires Shadow?”

What type of ‘cyberspace prick bully asshole’ regularly posts replies such as “Fuck off and do something useful with your life troll” (21/08/09), “So don’t be such a fu@&en douchebag” (21/08/09) and “What the hell was that, prick?” (02/09/09)to those who disagree with his conspiranoid beliefs?

It’s so quiet…maybe he’s at a disinformation agents meeting getting his orders for the next diatribe…or maybe he’s given himself a brain bleed with all that demented ranting? Either way – does care.

Looky looky who’s here…

Our next contestant is :

alex search

(a fuckwit from way back)

Welcome to the show Alex – Whaddyuh been up to?

Actually I don’t give a shit – and neither does the studio audience or anyone else

Your question for fifty points is :

Could you briefly list the ‘interventions’ by the US Government in other people’s countries since World War II?
This is an ‘open to the audience’ question – where viewers at home may cut n paste their own replies before you get to the buzzer.

Ok-go-

Must have been the last post about Israel and 911 and Kissinger that brought alex search out of the woodwork. Defending shitty Israel seems to be the thing that gets him all fired up.

Of course alex search never insults anyone that disagrees with him – do you.

Prick ? … still some time on the clock …

Your question again for 50 points –
If you believe jet fuel can melt steel in an hour – then why don’t jumbo jets fall out of the sky on a regular basis?

I will remind you that you are competing against alex search (fuckwit) for points.

Someones gonna be taking home their very own brand of Fascism – TONIGHT !

… back after these messages …

Holy crap Scott that would take us hours to cover that huge body of work!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9SFoiYIs_4&feature=channel_page

… all I need is a list, alex

Date and country will do fine …

… sixty seconds left.

Prick ? only a few seconds left on the clock …

… summer’s ready, when you are.

While these assholes scratch their heads, here’s some music to play us through…

… take it away …

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKUbgtckmck

and … we’re … BACK !

Your scores are both quite low (read: zero) for contestants at this stage of the game so we’re making this next one multi-guess – to try and raise your curve.

If your negative scorecard trend persists further we will be introducing more true or false questions to help you lift your game.

Here goes …

… hands over the buzzer …

Is FOX news presenter Bill O’Reilly:

a) A journalist

b) An ageing mean-spirited ex jock bully asshole with a good gig – and all he has to do to stay employed is be a prick to everyone he meets.

c) A kindred spirit to someone like yourselves

or

d) An evil soulless prick with unimaginable systemic blood on his hands for helping to cheerlead an entire hemisphere into a war of conquest that has already killed two million people around the world.

… ready your answers please … and-go-

-EEERRRRRK-!

Sorry guuuyys

The answer is, of course, All Of The Above – except a)

(that was a trick question)

We will be back after these messages…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCQ4cPK6Qp4

Scott – Chill out bro! Just because you adhere to beliefs that an all-powerful group of Zionist-Satanist-Communist- Reptilian etc. evildoers named ‘the Illuminati’ are all set to take over the world by killing most of it’s population through chemtrails, vaccinations, MSG, fluoride, genetically-engineered diseases, nanotechnology, mind control devices etc. doesn’t mean you have to get so darned tetchy about it. Anyone would think you had a paranoid/narcissistic personality disorder or something.

For the pleasure of the studio audience while we await answers from you know who -

http://clareswinney.wordpress.com/2009/09/02/open-letter-to-nist-by-richard-gage-aia/#more-3073

[off air - dim studio lighting and raspy whispered urgent tones]

We’re -dying- out there and all you two can do is sit there like two bits of -fucking- wood !

Rupert isn’t happy about this – I just heard from him – and he’s at home twisting in his leather chair like a Lizard.

Now get out there after this ad break – and answer some $%#&%ing questions.

I just got twittered by the production office and we need you both to be available for some publicity photo shoots at three o’clock tomorrow afternoon at Tiannerman Square.

Be there -sharp- or the network will find a way to make you pay sorely for letting them and their shareholders down so badly.

We’re not kidding.

You better know how to fake a smile.

They’ve got a lot of money riding on this quiz show, you mean spirited ignorant fucks.

… if you don’t have cabfare – then we can send the Limo.

Just call the production office in the morning – and we better %$#$@&ing hear from you.

Next question:

Your failure to be informed makes this website ‘wacko’.
True or false?

Sorry but I think he’s dead.

The answer is, of course, ‘-false-’

Your failure to be informed does not make this website ‘wacko’

is the -right- answer

(deep breath)

-next -question-

Do you both consider yourselves better, nobler, grander, & more intelligent than the other
living beings inhabiting any other spot on Earth?

– by the way we have viewers joining us tonight from England, Bogota, Anchorage, Austin-Texas,
Ceylon, Rhodesia, & the Falkland Islands – all sitting ’round their fucken computers wondering just what it is that might come splattering noisily out of your posting-hole, next.

… sixty seconds on the clock, gentlemen …

You dimwits call us all sorts of names, one of you has said I need to be shot…and you say we are the ones that don’t want rational debate??

Wow, that’s rich

Oh and Troll, thanks man…been taking antibiotics for awhile and it’s starting to work.

Yes, these nimrods are a funny bunch. They cherry pick facts, make up facts Like Last night when Nz told me the NIST stated that the planes didn’t do enough damage to cause a collapse…but their website says teh exact opposite…his response to getting caught in a lie??

They changed the website

LOL

Oh that’s a good one

Hey scott, your failure to refute any of the facts Ive cited and your continued insistence on quoting conspiracy sites DOES prove this site is a wacko conspiracy site.

Do I need to remind you, prick, that this is a general knowledge

-quiz-

and if you deviate from our contract (made when you clicked on that ‘Fuck You’ song above) then our well-paid studio security force will man-handle you into a locked cell occupying a deeply horny 700lb silverback gorilla.

We mean it.

Stick to the -script- or it’s your a$$.

Next question.

For one hundred smackers, can you define the term : ‘Usury’

… sixty seconds, prick – or, by tomorrow morning, your butt will look like a squid ring.

what fuck you song?

I don’t click on anymore links, I’ve seen these websites too many times now because that’s all you people link to.

You , as per usual, are off on your own little adventure there skippy.

Still trying to prove your case by calling me names?? LOL

You are failing miserably scott, the hilarious thing is , you don’t even realize how stupid you look.

“You are failing miserably scott, the hilarious thing is , you don’t even realize how stupid you look.”

is the -wrong- answer-

Prick – we’re are going to stay in our ‘economics’ segment of the show with this next question:

(requires a knowledge of history)

Henry Ford made sure his employees got paid a decent wage so that they could then afford to buy his f%@&ing cars – true or false?

While you think that one through, I’ve just heard through my earpiece that public feedback from the folks at home watching are sending to the company website about you is looking pretty good.

You’re scoring hard across the wire with our ‘egotistical prick’ psychographics.

and that song / legally binding contract would be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6UX1bW3o6I&feature=related

Still with ‘economics’ for 50 points, prick

How do you see a money system run on debt working out for your kids when they’re your age?

While he’s thinking about that – your question, Alex is:

Who had a big hit with their 1985 smash single “Running Up That Hill”?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KEEXyRL0qE

Hey Lombeer

Emerald Plaza 30 stories, I worked on the core and shell

Harbor Club East and some of the West tower 41 stories, I worked on the core and shell

Those are a couple of the ones I’ve worked on.

I have also helped to build countless malls, small office buildings and worked on a new terminal structure at the commercial airport in the city I live, just to name a few of the types of buildings I’ve helped to build. I have a lot of experience in this field.

As far as the company I work for…so sorry, I’m not stupid. I’m not giving you personal information.

For your information, when I say core and shell that means the central section of the building where the elevators stairwells and bathrooms are typically located. The shell of a building is the exterior coating in various forms. On the WTC the shell was incorporated into the support structures. This was a critical weakness, not envisioned by the original architects.

The way the exterior columns were attached was akin to sticking a bunch of straws together. They were basically stood end on end. All is well and good as long as the trusses connecting the exterior and interior columns are intact and able to carry the loads. Once you start removing the trusses or they become weakened due to heat, the integrity of the entire structure at these points is compromised.

Think of how stable that stack of straws is…now take that knowledge and envision several floors worth of exterior columns with no connecting trusses to the central core. It would be akin to a wet noodle trying to hold up the Titanic.

That’s just part of the bad news. The remaining columns on the affected floors had more load put upon them that far exceeded their design specs. In laymans terms that means they couldn’t hold the weight put upon them by the removal of the other columns and trusses.

All of these factors together led to the collapse of the towers. The hard cold reality is that these towers were coming down, it was a matter of when not if. There is nothing evil or conspiratorial about gravity and the physics of load bearing structures, combined with heat.

Your 808 engineers and scientists do not trump 700,000 engineers that do know how these buildings came down. I don’t care how good your conspiracy is, you are not going to be able to get to all 700,000 of them to get them to toe the line. There is absolutely no way you can maintain a cover up of that magnitude for long.

Now, exactly what personal knowledge do any of you have building large buildings?? I keep forgetting what your expertise is in these fields…Enlighten me…..If you can.

I don’t need to link to “government” websites to explain how things are built and or torn down. I don’t need to threaten any of you to prove my point, I don’t need to do any of the idiotic threats and name calling you people engage in to prove my point.

I have my years of experience and loads of common sense to guide me. You have 9/11 truthers websites and claims of fake pictures and missiles disguised as airplanes with Holograms…Yes, on one of the kook websites I read someone made that claim.

The bottom line is that there would have to have been thousands of people complicit in this conspiracy for it to be pulled off. Not only is that just a ludicrous notion, there is no way in hell to keep that many people silent for this long.

So, can any of you “geniuses” refute my facts with personal knowledge?? Or are you just going to link to truther websites? Can you converse of your own accord? Or does 9/11truth.org rule your mind?

There are so many logical holes in this and in fact any conspiracy theory as to negate the validity of said theory.

I fully expect more name calling and shouts of heresy from you people…but perhaps one of you is brave enough to discuss things rationally.

Nz is a proven liar and so is Philip…so perhaps an uncompromised person could step in and run with this.

Any takers??

One more thing about the core of the WTC 1 and 2.

It was not made of reinforced concrete as cores are built out here in earthquake land.

Had the core been made of reinforced concrete the towers might have been able to remain standing.

As it was it was made of steel columns which were connected to each other by simply steel stud walls and gypsum board. In the elevator shafts they used a type of drywall called Core Board. It is much thicker than normal drywall yet it is still only drywall. It is excellent in slowing the spread of heat from room to room in a fire, but it has absolutely no structural elements to it.

With the reinforced concrete core, the plane’s impact would have been better absorbed and the stairwells would have remained intact and even more people above the impact zone would have been able to get out of the building.

The reason the central core did not have reinforced concrete was a cost decision. It is much cheaper to do simple framing between columns than to infill with reinforced concrete.

Doesn’t look like there are any takers shadow – so maybe you should piss off to where you came from??

Just out of interest you don’t happen to work for Roel Construction in San Diego do you shadow?

aww poor Lorraine still name calling??

You poor thing

You think you got the intelligence to debate me?

Show me in your own words where I got it wrong?

I’ve described in intimate detail how the buildings support columns were connected.

I could go into greater detail but it’s quite obvious it is beyond your pay grade since all you can do is call people with opposing viewpoints various names.

Poor Lorraine

Your little New Zealand head must be close to exploding about now.

How on earth will you ever counter my facts and knowledge Lorraine??

You claim to have the facts on your side but can’t even discuss how support structures are attached to each other…how on earth can you back up your conspiracy theory??

Simple question how does steel (meduim carbon) melting point of 1520 degrees celcius melt in fires fuelled by av-gas which burns at max of 980 degress c?

Simple question
And yes there was molten steel!
And no oofice furniture cannot povide the excess heat energy!

Answer this non-politically!

No, but I have done jobs for them in the past. They are a pretty shitty company when it comes to how they treat their workers.

Awww, pretty clever Lorraine, still trying to find out who I am are ya??

Bet you googled the buildings I referenced didn’t ya??

Not too bad Lorraine, but you still haven’t addressed the facts.

Trust me, I can find you too if I so choose…You and the rest of these conspiracy nuts have nothing worth fearing. You certainly don’t have facts on your side.

So you DO work for Roel Construction. Does your boss know what you do when you are on sick leave?

Interesting how you insist on us answering your questions but you never answer ours….hhhhmmmmmm why could that be…

If we have nothing worth fearing why are you so determined to try and discredit us. I would say you are shit scared of the fact this information is getting out.

BTW I don’t give a shit who you are but I am a PI and it interests me to track people so will keep digging on you my friend.

nz the steel didn’t melt.

Here , I’ll say it again…

THE STEEL DID NOT MELT.

All it has to do is weaken and it can’t do the job it was designed to do.

The weakened steel, plus the vast amounts of connected support structures that were simply gone and a few other associated problems i.e. at the time of the initial impact there were partial collapses inside the building. That debris fell onto the floor and added to the weight that floor and associated trusses had to carry…it exceeded their designed load characteristics.

In your language…there was a lot of heavy stuff on a floor not designed to hold all that heavy stuff.

I have not once answered any of these questions , nor made any statements of a political nature in regards to the twin towers or the Pentagon.

Steel begins to degrade at far lower temperatures than are required to melt it. If you weaken the steel with heat, coupled with excessive loads on this steel due to debris from the floors and the missing support structures…you get a big pile of rubble.

Where was there molten steel Nz…remember you’ve been caught in four lies already. I will check any information you give…so speak carefully , unless you wish to add to your list of lies.

Hey , still waiting for you to show me how the U.S. killed 150 million people…and yes you did claim it was the U.S. since we were talking ONLY about the U.S. at the time and you quoted part of one of my statements in regards to my distaste of the U.S. government.

So , where is your proof we killed 150 million people in the 20th century

oooh im so scared Lorraine.

Wow an honest to goodness gumshoe huh??

Do you wear the funny hat and smoke a pipe too??

No Lorraine I asked you what you have to fear from the facts.

Oh and I do answer the questions..the legitimate ones like

Lombeer asking which buildings I’ve built. Among many others.

You have yet to address any fact I have presented Lorraine.

All you people have done is come up with new and exciting ways to call me names.

Did you learn that in PI school Lorraine?

You are so out in left field it’s hilarious you still claim to have the facts on your side

No Lorraine I said I have done jobs for them in the past. They are a general contractor, they hire other contractors to do jobs.

That is not the same as being an employee.

Do you understand what a General Contractor is Lorraine? or do I have to explain that to you also?

You’re not a very good PI, you can’t even read.

My boss is not from Roel, and he could care less what I do on my time.

These red herrings are pathetic Lorraine

Can you or can you not debate the facts??

It’s a simple yes or no answer Lorraine.

Hey wait a minute here Lorraine

You don’t give a shit who I am but you’re going to keep digging to find out who I am?

You do realize those are contradictory statements right Lorraine??

So nz,

are you furiously googling in an attempt to support your claims of melted steel and 150 million people killed by the U.S.??

Sure is taking you a long time, you’ve had almost 24 hours to get the casualty figures, and it shouldn’t be too hard to find the proof of melted steel you claim was there.

what’s taking you so long kid??

AK 47 to your head Shadow, no kidding around. I did not fucking say the US alone killed 150 million. You see I dont hate the US, I hate unconstitutional fucks like you! Yes we were talking about the US and you made an assumption based on the context. They did kill 6000 Jew kids though in the manner I would love to see you executed.
Anyway molten steel? you got it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqNugYbZX7E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v36bkCB8sTY&feature=related

Youtube not conspiracy sites

This one too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmuzyWC60eE

How were the two 6 tonne jet engines on 77 vaporised at the pentagon? Titanium alloy >1650 degrees C! Only a jt8d (APU size) was found. Oh and where’s the footage also??? You are so retarded I am amazed you can read.

Still waiting, dirty mason

You see there was molten metal!
This is the ultimate lie of yours!
Go back to masturbating in a coffin at your lodge, and leave us in peace.
Your shill game is up!

nz yes you did say the U.S.

we were talking about the U.S. and conspiracy theories.

We were not talking about any other country.

And threatening people on the internet is like cheating in the special olympics….either way you’re still retarded.

Ok watched the videos

You have two firefighters that could easily have been mistaken. Did they stop and test what they saw to verify it was molten steel and not some other liquid? Doubtful since their job was to put the fires out and save people’s lives.

Then you have some voice on a video questioning a supposed NIST offical, yet there is no corroborating to prove any of these people are who they are portrayed to be. Furthermore there is no direct physical evidence in this video, just some dude off camera asking questions.

The final video is a series of shots of one of the towers and some non descript firey substance which could be anything. Were tests conducted on that material falling out of the towers?? Or did someone just look at it and guess?? Where are the reports from the material tests on the supposed molten steel??

You see, just posting videos doesn’t do it. You need scientific data to support your claims.

The engines were not vaporized there are pictures of the remains of the engines inside the Pentagon. I posted them earlier today.

Lie number 5 nz. You should really do your homework before sticking foot in mouth.

You claim there is no footage, yet if you scroll up on this very page you’ll find the footage you say doesn’t exist.

You are failing miserably nz.

You are a proven liar and it’s getting worse for you every time you try to get me.

now I’m an unconstitutional fuck??

what on earth is that?

Where have I violated any part of the U.S. Constitution.

Are you American? Doubtful from your handle.

Tell ya what, if you really want to debate the U.S. Constitution, I’ll be happy to destroy your credibility there too.

Name the amendment I violated to become an “unconstitutional fuck”

here, picture of part of an engine in the Pentagon

http://www.911myths.com/assets/images/db_images/db_Pentagon_Debris_101.jpg

a picture of a compressor rotor. Yes it is a compressor rotor

http://www.911myths.com/assets/images/db_images/db_Pentagon_Debris_81.jpg

another picture of an engine part inside the Pentagon

http://www.911myths.com/assets/images/db_images/db_Pentagon_Exhibit1.jpg

Here is a duplicate picture of engine parts inside the Pentagon except this time it is from rense.com , one of the sites you people reference often. Even this website says it is a picture of engine debris INSIDE the Pentagon.

http://www.rense.com/general32/Damage9.jpg

No vaporized engines from Flight 77.

Lie number 6 Nz

Dude , you suck at this.

You are the one playing a shill game here nz.

You’ve been caught in 6 lies to date.

You don’t have much credibility as far as facts are concerned.

I need to go masturbate in a coffin??

Do you think that makes you sound intelligent nz??

Do you think that proves any of your contentions? Telling me to go masturbate in a coffin??

If I were an American you have violated my first ammendment by intentional ignoring cruicial information. And thefore I would give you a demonstration of the 2nd ammendment!

Not internet threats, I welcome you or any trash like you to turn up to Aotea square 12pm September 12, in downtown Auckland!

I love how you think you are an authority and can deciede when I’m lieing… show me the engines

Do you even know why the second ammendment was drafted?

Uhh nz

The first amendment of the U.S. Constitution deals with free speech.

You’ve spewed plenty and I’ve not once denied your right to speak.

Lie number 7

And you threaten me again?? Way to go dude, You’ve now moved into the realm of the truly demented.

Remember what I said, threaten people on the internet is like cheating in the special olympics, either way you’re still a retard.

Nz, I did show you the engines, I linked to several pictures of engine parts at the Pentagon.

some of the pictures came from rense.com

A site you and others like you often reference.

Are they lying too nz?

Yes I do know why the second amendment was drafted, along with all the other ones. We had to study it in school…you know since we live in America and all…

It and the other 10 original amendments is called the Bill of Rights

The second amendment states American’s rights to keep and bear arms. You see, back when the Constitutional Convention was going on…it was common for people to have firearms. It was largely an agrarian society that supported their families through hunting and farming and some ranching. It is common for these folk to have guns around for various reasons. Furthermore the founders wanted to insure a well armed populace in case we needed to repel an invasion.

You do realize that for the first part of the revolutionary war…our soldiers supplied their own guns and ammunition right? There was no military industrial complex to speak of back then. It took the French coming to help us out before we were properly armed and outfitted for war against the biggest kids on the block at the time…Great Britain.

Can’t wait to hear your explanation of the Second Amendment

A part of a compressor and a diffuser case are not evidence of anything. Grainy un-verified photos nothing like the huge compressor wheels we should see. Like I said more like an APU.

Like you say it was common place to have firearms in the late 1700’s, it was normal for people to shoot their food. It was passed incase another government turned tyrannical as they had just fought off the corrupt Brits. So the second ammendment was not passed so people could go hunting, as they already were.It was passed as a security measure to keep government in-check and some power with the people. You should know what happens to a dis-armed population in the case of, Hitler, Mao and Stalin. Jefferson explicity stated it was to keep government honest, to the point where physical violence can and should be used. So it was not just for an “invasion” as you state but all enemies foriegn and domestic, you seem to have a problem understanding the latter part of that statement.

Still cant figure out the free fall of the towers fancy pants? Behold. The demolition crew come to the rescue to explain the holes in the official reports.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73qK4j32iuo

Ladies, here’s to the real revelation by another ‘construction expert’. The cores were made of jello.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMjgyzKoXy4

The “new” troll wasting plenty of reader’s time again with his rehashed establishment rubbish. Dusted off, and presented as fact by a smug ignoramus with a lot of time on his hands.

You can keep repeating the falsehood that you “caught me in a lie”, but that does not make your accusation true. You celebrated too soon, troll!

Like I said before, you smug programmed puppet, I posted a link “Twenty-five U.S. Military Officers Challenge Official Account of 9/11″. I presented to readers a sample of the testimonies in that link: the Capt. Wittenberg quote.

You are on record here, troll, accusing some of us of “cherry picking” our facts.

You, bozo, did what you accuse others of when you ignored the rest of what the Captain said (and the rest of my post)– ceased upon the reference to the “plane” not hitting the Pentagon – and proceeded to try to get me to debate that issue with you. You took the Captain’s words, not mine, and baited me for an argument; knowing all the while that you had the link to Jeff’s site to shove in my face. Here are your words, troll:

“No airplane debris at the Pentagon huh?

You want to stick with that claim philip?

I’ll give you a chance to rescind that one before I destroy that contention.”

Posted by Clare’s shadow | September 2, 2009, 8:57 am

First you took the words from the Captain Wittenberg quote and tried to place them in my mouth.

When I did not say what you tried to bait me to say, it did not stop you from going on your fool’s errand of laying a trap for me and then bringing out your false accusation that I “lied”.

The fact that you were baiting me with your boastful puffed-up post at 8:57 am was so obvious “it could be seen from space”. The only surprise in what you did was the use of the link to rense.com.
Knowing full well you were setting me up, troll, I said the following in my post at 10:01 am

Another phony site with “photos” of “plane debris” at the Pentagon isn’t going to impress those who (unlike you) actually read the articles at Uncensored.

http://911rippleeffect.com/ Watch this video, troll, and see for yourself how bankrupt your position on 9/11 is.

The movie can be seen here: http://tinyurl.com/nkthr7

My post clearly shows that I expected you to pull out of your bag of tricks fake evidence from a phony site.

You celebrated too early, troll, because nowhere in my post did I dogmatically say that there was no plane debris inside or outside the Pentagon. Since I knew you were getting ready to spring a trap of your own design; and the fact that I was not actually at the Pentagon that day; you see nowhere in my post that I made the claim that no debris from a plane was found in or around the Pentagon. It’s not there. I said what I said, and no more.

My position is clear, that readers from Uncensored would not be impressed by a link to a phony site; and in that context (found at the end of that sentence) I said with “photos” of “plane debris” at the Pentagon…

Now, I may have made a mistake suggesting that you were going to spring another phony site on us (like the notoriously fake 9/11 “debunking” at Popular Mechanics) but we all make mistakes, and that is not the same as lying. You are very quick to label others “liars” when you, yourself, are very deceptive. And you do the very things that you accuse others of. Like “cherry picking” evidence.

It doesn’t bother you in the least to ignore most of the points in my posts and “cherry pick” what you feel you can shoot down.

Gary, Big Pharma’s puppet troll, does the very same thing you are doing.

Jeff Rense posted the “Exclusive Photos & Story” article at his site to give his readers more information to consider; and Sarah Roberts could very well be a regular reader of his website. Just because Jeff put the article up for readers to consider doesn’t mean he believes everything in the contents. Not that you are saying he did.

It should be clear that Jeff believes the government’s 9/11 tale to be pure BS!

Your link did nothing to disprove the overall case against the fiction promoted by the US government and most of the mainstream media. The official story is unraveling and there is nothing you can do to prevent it.
___________________________________

Are you the same clown who stated the following?

“I’ve already caught your buddy nz in four lies last night.

Perhaps if I get bored I’ll pick apart your so called ‘truth’”
___________________________________

Have you watched the 9/11 Ripple Effect video yet? http://tinyurl.com/nkthr7

Since it destroys your “Debunking 9/11 Truth” sites: it’s not likely that you would admit it if you did.

Like Gary, you are a stubborn arrogant ass; and you will be deflated in due time. That much is certain.

Along with the official version of 9/11 being a lie!

Yea shads, I’m not convinced. I don’t work in construction as you still only clam to, hard thing to prove really one way or the other, but anyway, I realise this link is inadmissible as evidence but I’m not presenting it as such.
What is your explanation of the 45% cuts in the columns witnessed at ground zero? as shown halfway down this linked page.

http://www.bollyn.com/understanding-the-use-of-thermite-on-9-11

more questions to follow, I however have a job and out of respect for my employer I don’t play whack-a-mole at work so I won’t be checking back every 5 minutes.

One more thing, If I was behind a coverup of something like 911, I’d hire people like you to cover my tracks. Everything from everyone presented on the internet should be treated with suspicion.
The US govt (and others) have employees whose job it is to spread dis-info. As for your claims that a coverup could not exist because it would be revealed, I guess that depends on weather the people involved believe what they are doing is justified or not.

And while you are trying to prove the case presented in the video as being in error; don’t forget the rest of my links that you conveniently “cherry picked” your way around.

Like “THE TOP 40 REASONS TO DOUBT THE OFFICIAL STORY OF SEPTEMBER 11th, 2001”
http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20041221155307646

In your rush to place words in my mouth, you also neglected to explain how all of these people reject the official 9/11 “conspiracy theory”

41 U.S. Counter-Terrorism and Intelligence Agency Veterans Challenge the Official Account of 9/11
http://patriotsquestion911.com/Counterterrorism_Veterans.pdf

29 Structural & Civil Engineers Cite Evidence for Controlled Explosive Demolition in Collapses of All 3 WTC High-Rises on 9/11
http://www.ae911truth.org/downloads/29_Structural-Civil_Engineers_2009-06-17.pdf

Twenty-five U.S. Military Officers Challenge Official Account of 9/11
http://patriotsquestion911.com/Article%20Military%20Officers%20Challenge%20911.pdf

Eight U.S. State Department Veterans Challenge the Official Account of 9/11
http://patriotsquestion911.com/Article%20State%20Dept%20911.pdf

41 U.S. Counter-Terrorism and Intelligence Agency Veterans, 29 Structural & Civil Engineers, Twenty-five U.S. Military Officers, and Eight U.S. State Department Veterans contradict your pompous attacks on readers of this website.

You leaped over all of these testimonies to grasp a sentence or two from the Air Force Captain because it fit your agenda to humiliate me with the rense.com link.

Before you call others a “liar” troll, you should study the information you danced around and watch these witnesses (that you chose to ignore) tear your phony “Debunking of 9/11 truth” to shreds.

“Many respected senior members of the military, intelligence services, and government have expressed significant criticism of the 9/11 Commission Report. Some even allege government complicity in the terrible acts of 9/11. Below are the highly revealing public statements on this vital topic of over 50 prominent public servants with links for verification and further investigation…”

http://wanttoknow.info/officialsquestion911commissionreport

Clare’s shadow is right Phillip….quoting from conspiracy sites is not a valid form of argument.
But of course that is all you can do because there is no where else you can find support for your nutty conspiracy ideas.

Regards
Gary

That’s an hilarious statement coming from you troll when all YOU quote from is that stupid science blog. Talk about accusing others of what you in fact do yourself.

Look people – like the resident troll this other bozo is purely here to bait and then lie his way through this subject while conveniently dismissing evidence that contravenes his paid for opinion.

I vote we leave him to pontificate to the same audience as the troll (zero) and move on to other topics of discussion.

He is a total waste of time and energy

Here’s the puppet again, our “resident imposter”, with more of his unintentional humor: transforming himself into a judge of credible websites.

You, troll (and your new found friend), insist that we present the truth about September 11th to counter the claims of you “two” shills: but, in doing so, we are not allowed to go to any of the sites where the evidence can be found!

And who came up with this rule?

“Two” trolls.

And you wonder why Clare will not waste her time with bozos like you, Gary, and your make believe friends who just happen to be as brainwashed as you are?

And what have you to fear by going to the sites that intimidate you so:

“With all the evidence readily available at the Pentagon crash site, any unbiased rational investigator could only conclude that a Boeing 757 did not fly into the Pentagon. Similarly, with all the evidence available at the Pennsylvania crash site, it was most doubtful that a passenger airliner caused the obvious hole in the ground and certainly not the Boeing 757 as alleged.

As painful and heartbreaking as was the loss of innocent lives and the lingering health problems of thousands more, a most troublesome and nightmarish probability remains that so many Americans appear to be involved in the most heinous conspiracy in our country’s history.”

Col. George Nelson, U.S. Air Force (ret) – Former U.S. Air Force aircraft accident investigator and airplane parts authority. 34-year Air Force career.
___________________________________

“I first began to suspect that 9/11 was in inside job when the Bush-Cheney Administration invaded Iraq. … We can prove that the government’s story is false.”

Morgan Reynolds, PhD – Chief Economist, Department of Labor under George W. Bush 2001-2002. Former Director of the Criminal Justice Center at the National Center for Policy Analysis. Professor Emeritus, Texas A&M University.
___________________________________

“‘The government story they handed us about 9/11 is total B.S.’ Wittenberg convincingly argued there was absolutely no possibility that Flight 77 could have ‘descended 7,000 feet in two minutes, all the while performing a steep 270 degree banked turn before crashing into the Pentagon’s first floor wall.’

‘For a guy to just jump into the cockpit and fly like an ace is impossible,’ said Wittenberg, recalling that when he made the jump from Boeing 727s to the highly sophisticated computerized characteristics of the 737s through 767s, it took him considerable time to feel comfortable flying.”

Capt. Russ Wittenberg, U.S. Air Force – Former Air Force fighter pilot, over 100 combat missions. Commercial pilot for Pan Am and United Airlines for 35 years. Had previously flown the actual two United airplanes that were hijacked on 9/11.

http://wanttoknow.info/officialsquestion911commissionreport
___________________________________

Readers can see why you are afraid of the links that I posted, troll.

The truth is going to roll right over you clowns covering for the criminals who planned and carried out September 11th!

Readers can see a lot of things here.

Bullying people online can make a 47 story skyscraper collapse at freefall speed from fire and partial damage, apparently.

Right into its own footprint.

Perhaps he thinks we’re stupid – and his mode of expression says a lot about his intent. People are defined by their behavior.

I think people can make up their own minds about the events of that day without being aggressively co-erced by some soulless disappointment of a human.

I agree, Lorraine. Let’s ditch this fuck.

He is a willing accessory to mass murder, anyway. Whether he knows it or not.

This makes him worthy of the highest level of contempt.

So Lorraine thinks that science is stupid. “YOU quote from is that stupid science blog”
Well that is consistent with her belief in magic based medicine (acupuncture) rather than science based medicine (vaccination). No wonder she has fallen for the 911 conspiracy hoax.

Regards
Gary

lombeer said: “Everything from everyone presented on the internet should be treated with suspicion.”

except information on websites like infowars, rense.com, wakeupfromyourslumber and this one, huh? If it’s online, far-right, and conspiranoid, it must be true…

Noone is asking you to believe anything search.

If you are to make an informed decision then you are required to look at BOTH sides of the argument WITH AN OPEN MIND. That is something that you and your ilk fail to do.

You are too brainwashed by the establishment.

I think it was Hitler that said “thank goodness most people are stupid otherwise we couldn’t control them so easily”.

Aye – you pricks have nothing to offer anyone.

Believe what you want.

I will too – despite your Blah repetitions.

“Aye – you pricks have nothing to offer anyone.”

so the paranoia, racism, and misanthropy that are integral to the conspiracist beliefs propagated on this site are boons to the human race, are they?

I think it was Hitler that said (well no he didn’t, but I’m making up a quote and posting it online in a ‘truth strategy’ common to most conspiranoids) “thank goodness my propaganda to instill conspiracist beliefs in such things as the grand Communist-Jewish plot to take over the world throughout Germany and Europe has worked, as this has enabled me to act out this personal and collective paranoia in the form of the most destructive war in human history. Please continue to propagate the same beliefs long after my demise in the delusional sense that these are politically ‘radical’ – there is such fun to be had!”

Tip – perhaps you could read something like ‘Warrant for Genocide’ by Norman Cohn with an open mind – if you’re prepared to read something that is A – a book rather than a website of the American far-right and B – written by an academic rather than someone whose ‘expert knowledge’ derives from google searches and Rense.com.

“Aye – you pricks have nothing to offer anyone.”

Still true.

“so the paranoia, racism, and misanthropy that are integral to the conspiracist beliefs propagated on this site are boons to the human race, are they?”

Do your best to paint a vulgar picture.
But, it won’t work.

“I think it was Hitler that said (well no he didn’t, but I’m making up a quote and posting it online in a ‘truth strategy’ common to most conspiranoids) “thank goodness my propaganda to instill conspiracist beliefs in such things as the grand Communist-Jewish plot to take over the world throughout Germany and Europe has worked, as this has enabled me to act out this personal and collective paranoia in the form of the most destructive war in human history. Please continue to propagate the same beliefs long after my demise in the delusional sense that these are politically ‘radical’ – there is such fun to be had!””

You’re an idiot.

“Tip – perhaps you could read something like ‘Warrant for Genocide’ by Norman Cohn with an open mind – if you’re prepared to read something that is A – a book rather than a website of the American far-right and B – written by an academic rather than someone whose ‘expert knowledge’ derives from google searches and Rense.com.”

Tip – stop using meaningless, nebulous, useless, and glib words like ‘conspiracist beliefs’ and stop repeating yourself.

I’m well familar with your perspectinve on things, Alex.

And you still have nothing to offer.

You have a highly granular worldview, Alex.

That equates to : ‘boring’

yes I’m boring because I often restate ideas – unlike 9/11 truthers, say, who are never dull cluttering up the comments columns of innumerable websites with their interminable pseudo-scientific expositions about controlled demolitions and the like…

I’d rather be boring than a racist posing as a political ‘radical’…go back to your slumber blogspot bro…

Alex you dumb leftist

My worldview has nothing to do with the lies conveyed in that of Hitlers.

In fact Hitler was part of the world order I see as the enemy. He was a quarter Jewish himself( of Rothschild lineage), studied the Torah and was obsessed with occult mysticism. Hence the runic motifs he adopted, Thule society connections etc.
You have no idea buddy, fucking commie idiot, have you even read the 1848 manifesto? How can any sane person agree with that shit? My objection doesn’t make me right-wing either, it makes me Human!

Big government bad
Corporate takeover bad
People fearing government bad
Government held accountable good
Informed public good
Open free media good
Big brother bad
Self sufficiency good
Guns good safe society

UNDERSTAND?

Good list.

Hopefully the penny will drop for him now.

Ahh Lorraine, still ranting incoherently I see.

I am dismissing conspiracy sites and their so called “evidence” because It contradicts the hands on knowledge I have gained in 25 years building structures.

If you have any hard evidence ( from a non kook conspiracy site ) I’d be happy to view it.

As for nz,

You very clearly claimed there was NO plane wreckage found at the Pentagon, No engine parts not a shred of evidence of an airplane was found at the Pentagon…that is what you stated.

I very easily found pictures of plane wreckage from sites you people quote all the time AND several other sites.

It very clearly showed the Pentagon AND oh my god no way….PLANE WRECKAGE

I think you are on lie number 7 or 8 at this point nz….I’m losing count you lie so much …and get caught.

I’ll say it again…You suck at this.

Hey Lorraine…did you use your spidey powers to find out who I am yet?…Errrr I’m sorry you’re a PI not web slinging crime fighter…sorry, it’s hard to tell sometimes.

I have presented plenty of evidence for you people to attempt to refute….All I’ve seen is ..Well you’re a disinformation agent, or we need to put a bullet in your head, or you should go jack off in a coffin…etc etc.

All very good insults , but hardly evidence that supports your claims.

Yes Troll, in Lorraine’s mind, science is stupid because you can’t fake that. You can’t logically question repeatable experiments.

Their argument boils down to…

Who are you going to believe? Me or your lying eyes?

It’s pathetic on its surface and gets worse once you scratch the surface.

Oh and if any of you nimrods claim I have not answered any of your questions….it means you aren’t reading what I write.

We have nz claiming some nondescript firey substance coming out of one of the towers is molten steel…not molten metal in general…but molten steel….yet his proof?

Three videos, none of which actually show molten steel or testing reports that verify what the substance is. Two firemen claim they saw molten steel…they are always very specific in saying steel…yet there were several different types of metals associated with that building and the airplanes. It could have been anything, perhaps not even metal..we don’t know because these firefighters didn’t stop to take a sample for testing. It may very well have been molten metal of some sort…different metals have different melting points.

It’s all just a bunch of half truths and a few actual facts sprinkled in to “make it sound plausible” but that’s it. They make all these claims of secret demolition crews placing explosives in the towers….but no explanation of how no one noticed all the wires and associated items that would need to be in place for this thing to work. The best they can do is say…oooh oooh look they were working on the elevators…..except that if you know what an elevator shaft looks like it is laughable on the surface to even make that claim. There are NO columns of a structural nature inside an elevator shaft. If you look at the blueprints of the WTC towers you will clearly see the column layout…NONE were in the elevator shafts. The only think in an elevator shaft is……An ELEVATOR. Forget the fact that even if there were building columns inside the elevator shafts…those alone would not have been enough to cause the collapse. There were limited amounts of elevator shafts…and none of them came close to enough of the support columns to make a difference.

I’ve built many many elevator shafts ( the elevator itself is installed by a very specific trade..all they do is install elevators. People like me build the shafts. We build fire walls around the shafts that separate the shafts from the rest of the building. They typically have a 2 hour rating. This means that it takes two hours for heat from one side of the wall to transfer to the other side with sufficient temperature to cause spontaneous combustion of flammable material. It is essentially a special form of drywall….drywall is not structural.

That’s just one of the many “theories” that they put forth as “proof” of a conspiracy…but can never seem to explain how it was accomplished with no one noticing.

Des Griffin, of http://www.midnightmessenger.com, speaks of six very reliable friends when he desires to know the truth on matters such as 9-11, the Iraqi war, and many such evils in high places; and those dear friends names are: Who?, What?, Where?, How?, When?, and Why?
Seek these fellows out and you’ll get what are called “sound judgements”. Indeed, they have been sought for, found, and the verdict is in from these fact-finding truth-loving jury members. That is that “There is no conspiracy THEORY now”. The crime of conspiracy, as well as cover-ups, treason AND murder have been well exposed. The objective people in the court of these various comment threads are to be commended for trying to help others to see the truth of very important matters such as these. As far as many [those with eyes to see] are concerned- the
gavel now falls [BAM] “GUILTY!” is the charge of the court! God WILL give them all their just reward; the NWO kangaroo court, media, and mind-numbed masses WILL NOT.

No dice, sh*tballs.

You can take your decades of construction experience, and shove it right up your a$$.

And you can do your own fucking research, too.

Clue yourself up instead of harassing people for your own ego-driven reasons.

(It just looks bad … )

We’ve spoken for long enough for everyone reading here to know just what kind of person you are.

So you go ahead and have a nice life, y’hear?

And when you do eventually ’shuffle off the planet’ as the saying goes
– you can be secure in the knowledge that the world will not miss you.

Ciao.

Prick.

“you should go jack off in a coffin…”.

Who wrote that – it’s inspired and hey a bloody good idea.

Where -does- that saying come from ?

aww scott I didnt know you cared.

I know it’s hard for you to successfully argue against someone like me I have experience and knowledge far beyond yours when it comes to the building industry.

It’s much more fulfilling to call me names. It gives you a sense of superiority.

Oh and scott I did do my own research, it’s called hands on knowledge. Something alien to you and your ilk.

Yes I know you’ve spoken with people and decided I’m a threat to your nice little world. So off to ad hominem land we go.

My facts are rock solid. If you feel otherwise then tell me ….with your extensive knowledge of contruction.

Why are there no support columns inside an elevator shaft?

Do you think you can “man up” and answer that one question??

I know it’s hard to accept the fact your entire raison d’etre is a lie.

http://uncensored.co.nz/2009/09/03/world-trade-centre-7-collapse-video-gallery/

Scott

Dude, seriously

You are linking to THIS site to prove your conspiracy theory??

This has got to be the dumbest move I’ve seen you make on this thread.

You’re flailing man…

Why are there no support columns in an elevator shaft Scott??

Come on…the theory put forth of how the explosive got into the buildings is that they used the ruse of an elevator upgrade to plant the explosives on the support columns.

Scott, you simply can’t get to the support columns through an elevator shaft.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EadoxWXpgY&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Funcensored.co.nz%2F2009%2F09%2F03%2Fworld-trade-centre-7-collapse-video-gallery%2F&feature=player_embedded

So long, fucker …

Can you believe the arrogance of this guy?! You really must be over compensating for something (a small weenie prehaps) because the size of your ego is gigantic.

News flash- you aren’t a threat to our world at all, but I suggest we are a threat to yours.

“Big government bad
Corporate takeover bad
People fearing government bad
Government held accountable good
Informed public good
Open free media good
Big brother bad
Self sufficiency good
Guns good safe society

UNDERSTAND?” – NZ Truth

well, I understand the following list:

Lack of basic critical thinking skills – BAD

Contempt for science, history and most other facets of human knowledge in favour of the opinions of paranoid right-wing Americans – BAD

Worldview based almost entirely on information posted on conspiracy websites – BAD

Excessive faith in the veracity of YouTube documentaries – BAD

Worldview based almost entirely on explicitly American issues and cultural reference points, even though you live in New Zealand – SAD

scott, you just linked to TWO SECONDS of video.

TWO SECONDS…how on earth does that prove your case?

Ahh yes Lorraine , still more attacks on me…awww, I’ve really gotten to you haven’t I.

Now that you got the name calling out of your system…how about trying to explain how the MIBs got to the support columns through the elevator shafts when there are no support columns IN an elevator shaft.

Can you even explain That part of your theory?

I can easily claim the sun is going to rise over the Pacific Ocean tomorrow…but without proof of how that is going to happen…I’m just making a statement.

So, in your own words…how did the explosives teams get to the support columns through the elevator shafts.

This is your theory not mine. Please explain how it was accomplished without anyone noticing.

Just for fun i went back and looked at the blue prints again.

I found a total of EIGHT columns that could theoretically be reached through the elevator shafts….but you would have had to destroy the walls of the shaft to even get to them.

It is exactly as I said, even if there were some columns nearby…there are not enough to destroy in order to weaken the structure enough to collapse it.

We’ll just leave out the fact that even if there HAD been explosives on these columns…many of them were destroyed by the planes slamming into them. IIRC one of your theories stated that the explosives were placed at a predetermined elevation in the building where the planes were told to hit. That way the “explosions” could be explained away by stating …well it was the planes not explosions.

Oops, the planes took out a lot of those columns….and anything attached to them

You need to destroy many more columns than just 8 to do the job of taking down a tower.

Oops, to be fair , I have to admit I made a mistake when reading the blueprints.

There are only SIX columns close enough to be able to access through an elevator shaft.

And as I stated, there is no way this work could have gone on , undetected.

Building maintenance would have had to deal with A LOT of scrap material generated as the walls were destroyed to gain direct access to those columns.

Someone would have questioned it…especially because Elevator repair crews ONLY deal with elevators as I previously stated. That is All the are allowed to deal with on a jobsite and it is a violation for any unauthorized person to be in an elevator shaft while they are working.

So if these repair crews suddenly started bringing out loads of scrap material…Building Maintenance would have said something….and no, they couldn’t all have been…”on the payroll”

I (for one) am sick of divisiveness, I think the debunker or denialists or whatever you want to call them are interesting, assuming they are not disinfo ‘agents’ because Gary and Shadow* etc I dunno sometimes i really get the feeling that they want to know whats going on, as do we all I hope. They know something does not add up and they are looking for proof that what we are saying is true, why else would they hang out here day after day, hour after hour, paragraph after paragraph, begging for us to prove them wrong. I , for one, don’t want to disseminate false information for either side. There is so much bullshit out there from both sides.

911 was an important event, whichever side you are on and whatever country you are in.
I used to be disgusted with yanks for multiple reasons but listening to US web radio and the callers who phone in I gained a whole new outlook.
People who supported Bush and who support Obama now are not stupid they are simply more honest than the politicians who are supposed to represent them and they can’t believe their leaders would lie to them in a massive way.

But they do.
Governments do lie to their people, Regularly. Now that is a fact, anyone care to dispute that it? thought not.

Now we can spent all the next 200 years debating the tits off the 911 issue.
But rather than that lets look at what has happened to the world as a result of 911.
The war on terror, DU weapons, white phosphorous, rendition, black sites, enhanced interrogation, water boarding. taking of my shoes a the frikin’ airport. Serious invasions of personal freedom and privacy. The deaths of at very very least hundreds of thousands of Iraqi and Afghan and now Pakistani men, women, and children.
That interests me more because it is happening now. As a direct result, we are told by all mainstream media, of 911.

So I suggest you yanks ask for a REAL investigation into 911. simple, completely transparently, set up a Free to air TV channel running 24 seven With a 2 hour summary in prime time.
Submissions from the public, testimony from bush, cheney, rummy the lot.
F’ck knows you yanks can afford it, just get your slavemasters at the federal reserve to mint ya up a bunch of shiny new coins and in-debt your descendants, whom you will never lay eyes on.

Now the disinfo people out there, we don’t ‘know’ who you are, or care for that matter, free speech and all that, but you are there and you REALLY HAVE TO ASK YOURSELF
W H A T Y O U A R E D O I N G.

If its a job, quit it.
You need to grab yourself a history book or 5 and get reading.
Because if you knew what you are HELPING TO USHER IN I really don’t believe you be doing what you are doing. Unless you are a Psychopath, then perhaps …you would.
But you would have to be a total psycho-psyyy-ccoooo-path.

Then there are the agents, police, mil, etc, the people whose duty it is to monitor what happens on the net, cos remember, we’re all suspects.
You also need to ask yourself where this is going. The black uniforms, the cattle prods, deny its happening all you like, we are the people, your brothers and your sisters you are members of our Whānau and in my case an uncle and one of my cousins kids.

Just ask yourself what kind of world you really want to live in.

Cos when this is over and the honest good people of the world have defeated you. Peacefully, hopefully. We will hold you accountable.

Refuse,
inform your friends,
stop playing the left right game, stop being distracted by corporate media bull$hit.

Its all a big lie, a game.

* this applies to everyone except alex search he’s just a douche.. Alex calling people racist, brilliant. Someone who unswervingly supports Israel (the most racist nation on the planet) calling people racist. Oh and before you start your age old chants of “anti-simetic” Alex I’ve had two girlfriends of Jewish heritage so yea, guess I don’t hate Jewish people. Oh how i quiver in fear when girlie, elitist, snob, bitches like alex call me the R word, the horror, the horror. Oh and we’re all right wingers too, brilliant Al you have me pegged, its like I’m a book and you are flicking through my pages, oh and I like it.

Whatever.

Well said lombeer

To Alex who characterises us as right wing Jew bashers heres a hint:

Look at peoples friends lists on facebook- any would be spook should know this

“Worldview based almost entirely on explicitly American issues and cultural reference points, even though you live in New Zealand – SAD” -Alex

Its the average idiot coincidence theorists like you that have allowed bullshit US pop culture to invade our nation.

It is also the base currency of the world

Largest weapons producer
etc
etc

This is why I focus on the US, but I also take up local issues like the Supercity

So its the inactivists like you who are sad. See you on the front lines coward

“Well said lombeer”

… ditto

[sustained applause]

A clearer and longer clip here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlqhMjsuuKk

Isn’t it interesting how a debate can get nasty over secondary issues, such as who installed what explosives where, when, and how? The only matter of importance here is that the 3 World Trade Center buildings were professionally demolished. Setting them up must have been quite a challenge, but of a much smaller scale than the subsequent cover-up.

Details are important, but the matter at hand here is that a triple controlled demolition took place and the public was made to believe that a) only 2 buildings were destroyed b) these were unfortunate and unforeseen consequences of much smaller events.

First things first. Only a thorough and impartial investigation into the WTC demolitions can shed light on the explosives’ logistic.

Love,

The twister of other people’s words, “alex search”, joins the other trolls for another evening of debunking-for-sport, the views of “conspiracy theorists” who actually read the articles presented at this website.

My post September 3, 2009, 10:39 am applies to you, alex, as well.

For any new readers who are trying to understand what propels the trolls along in their folly, I present the following excerpt from one of my recent posts:

The main reason for their “invincible ignorance” is due to the fact that Gary [their ringleader] at least, doesn’t read most of what he slams. He tells others to “get educated” while in a deep impenetrable fog himself.

Quite comical actually, to see him avoid the websites where the truth can be found and cling to his fantasy-reinforcing establishment fluff: “sciencebasedmedicine”—“skeptoid”—“quackcast” –- “ratbags” etc.

As unreligious as he claims to be, his behavior resembles people who only attend a church that will not disturb their slumbering condition. They avoid churches that would jolt them out of their comatose state of denial; the same way Gary the spammer troll refuses to learn anything here, or at:

http://rense.com/ _ http://radioliberty.com/ _ http://www.infowars.com/ _ or http://whale.to/m/quotes26.html

New readers may also want to peruse the posts on this thread to understand why most of us do not wish to waste any more time with trolls. Gary, calling himself “Troll Meister” makes an especially vile remark on this thread; even though he currently is passing himself off as a gentleman… a disguise that will be evaporating soon.

http://uncensored.co.nz/2009/06/16/man-offers-200000-to-the-first-us-licensed-medical-doctor-or-pharmaceutical-company-ceo-to-publicly-drink-a-mixture-of-standard-vaccine-additive-ingredients/

Readers may also want to go back to September 1 (on this thread) and take note of how unusually quiet Gary our “resident imposter” was while the “new” troll posted his more than 70 messages!

Gary’s other imaginary friends (that popped up a few weeks ago on the same day) were mysteriously nowhere to be found; while Gary himself only posted a few messages as “Troll.”
___________________________________

The we have the “new” troll making this statement in his very “first” post at this website:

“All you people do to counter people like me is to link to more conspiracy websites.”

Interesting thing for the “new” troll to say in his “first” ever post on this site!

And what about this statement at 9:34 am?

“No conspiracy, no evil “Them” , the MIBs do not really exist and neither do the black helicopters.”

It is just as well that I was not online that day, because I can now take a nice calm look at what actually happened when this “new” troll just about took over the discussion thread; beginning at 6:28 am and coming to a close at 10:23 pm

If I just focus for a moment on his denial of the black helicopters; he comes away from this examination of his tactics as either not knowing about their true existence; or… he is a LIAR! My, my, the very accusation he slings at NZ_Truth and I!

“New” troll, I have seen the black helicopters, and they have been documented on videotape and shown in videos produced by patriots for years now; while you were being schooled by your handlers to do exactly what you’re doing here.

Now, if I’m not mistaken, the old troll (our “resident imposter” Gary) left only two messages on this thread during the whole day of September 1st! While the “new” troll left more than 70!

Are we, who know this idiot from months (for some more than a year) of seeing his drivel posted here, supposed to believe that Gary could go a whole day only posting twice, while “another” troll heated things up with more than 70 messages? I, for one, don’t see it happening. Not Gary.

Here was the introduction to my first post when I saw what had taken place on the 1st

Does this site have another troll?

Or has the troll of many disguises, whose credibility has hit zero, decided to change his name again?

September 2, 2009, 6:29 am

Readers may want to peruse that post again and notice how the trolls did not (because they cannot) refute the information that I presented as links that these lazy puppets only had to click on to get an education.

It takes me more than an hour to carefully write, research, and find links for many of my posts.

Then I have an imbecile like the “new” troll, who was posting (at times) his disinfo every two to five minuets, call me a “liar” after the trap that he set for me sprung: ending up firmly attached to his own backside.

It would seem the “new” troll was unsuccessful at wearing down NZ_Truth!

Lorraine was right (from what little I have been able to read so far of the exchanges that day) that NZ_Truth did an excellent job of replying to the tool’s steady stream of globalist disinformation.

The following excerpt is from his post at 7:27 pm:

“As for catching me on “two lies already”, this is pure semantical spin. You live a lie, you reg[r]et the dictionary definition of conspiracy otherwise you would see how hypocritical your world view is. You believe in fiction and as a result will soon become fiction, because 9/11, nwo, fema, fluoride and everything else aside. You believe the banking system is legitimate and not a wealth transfer system that is about to implode on the vast majority of people. Thanks to the faith “smart” people like you have in fiat federal reserve currency, you have unwittingly sold everyone into bondage, and soon your ignorance will no longer be bliss!”
I look forward to reading the rest of NZ_Truth’s responses to our “new” troll.

Meanwhile, I believe that Lorraine has the right idea in her post at 10:25 am yesterday. I could not respond because by the time I posted my last message and saw hers my time on the computer was up.

Everyone concerned about the forced vaccination issue should read the following flyer and get this kind of information to as many people as possible.

http://uncensored.co.nz/images/SWINE_FLU_VACCINE_flyer.pdf

Dan Noel: I was just getting ready to post this message when I saw your post.

What you see on this thread goes beyond “debate”.

We have trolls determined to undermine and / or ridicule most every article posted to this site.

Your calm approach is certainly welcome; and nothing I said in this post was aimed at you.

As you will soon see; Gary, his new friend shadow, and alex search are just here to tear down the website and debunk-for-sport the conspiratorial view of history.

So, Mr. Noel, if you believe the conspiratorial view of history (rather than the accindetal view) and plan on sharing your thoughts here… fasten your seatbelt!

[:)]

Science anyone?

http://www.cracked.com/photoshop_82_if-hollywood-taught-science-class/

Hi Dan – thanks for joining us. Our Shadow fiend seems to have temporarily left the building. No doubt he will be back.

“Science anyone?

http://www.cracked.com/photoshop_82_if-hollywood-taught-science-class/

Posted by lombeer | September 4, 2009, 8:56 am”

Nice post Lombeer. Now we know where you anti-vaccine people got your science education.

Lorraine: I am finally getting to read more of the posts since the “new” troll began his manic posting on September 1st.

You were certainly right about the way NZ_Truth met the tool head on with a series of good responses.

His first post at 1:49 pm was written with all guns blazing, and the “new” troll’s response was predictable.

Funny how Gary and the shadow are afraid of the sites that contain the information that would pluck their heads out into the daylight.

I’m finding these posts on September 1st (many of which I didn’t get a chance to read until now) very interesting.

When I saw the post at 8:56 am, and went to the link, I thought of you troll: since it doesn’t look like something lombeer would have placed here for readers to waste their time with.

“You and your sicko paranoid conspiracy moron nut-job friends should get some education and stop being such a stupid menace to those around you.”

Posted by Troll Meister | July 14, 2009, 1:20 pm

“PS. Don’t you just love ad hominem arguments? It saves you kooks from having to deal with the facts.”

Posted by Troll | September 1, 2009, 1:36 pm

Afraid of your nut job sites? I don’t think so Phillip. The only scary thing about them is that some gullible children like you yourself might take them seriously and believe the nonsense they spout.

I do like to throw in ad hominem arguments some times. Might as well have some fun that way. It is obvious that you are immune to logical argument. I have sent you to science based information sources but you don’t seem capable of understanding them. You keep on returning to your favourite woo based sites for more misinformation. So I repeat…”You and your sicko paranoid conspiracy moron nut-job friends should get some education and stop being such a stupid menace to those around you.”

http://www.theness.com/

Regards
Gary
( Maybe from Christchurch…..or maybe I am an alien from Mars..oooooh…..or maybe a Big Pharma shill…..or maybe a disinfo agent for the New World Order……or maybe a mason…….or maybe a troll who lives under a bridge………………..or maybe [insert your own delusion here])

Interesting to say the least Philip. You sure did miss the fun.

This guy seems to have gone away now though which is a shame because I had asked for some help from another truth group that would have blitzed him and his stupid arguments to Mars.

Gary, Alex, Shadow
This maybe a game to you guys, but in the real world we are engaged in a war.
I refuse to be a casualty of this war and when, not if, but when it spills from the comfort of the internet on to the streets you better be sure whose side you’re on! You won’t be able to dodge bullets like you can information! And you won’t be able to say the bullets are part of our paranoid minds either.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMjgyzKoXy4

Swallow your pride and accept you are wrong, the longer you delay this process the worse the consequences. This is logic nothing else. Take your church of manipulated science someplace else

I think you hit the nail on the head nz_truth with the posting above. They do in their arrogant denial think this is a game and don’t for one minute relate all of the information that we present as having any effect on them or worse still their children.

Could they actually believe that all the wars and the slow orchestrated degradation of the world is not being controlled but is coincedence.

To apply any kind of logical thought process to the events and how they flow is to see it all for what it is.

You poor sick children. Wake up! Smell the coffee. Life is good. Live every day. Your paranoia is ruining your lives.

First step I suggest is for you to see your local GP and explain your paranoid delusions to her. She can probably suggest an appropriate course of treatment. Good luck.

Regards
Gary

Troll, sad thing is my GP is retarded like you, psychology experts are also out of their depth and cannot accurately asess people who know things they dont! Paranoia does not kill 34,000 children a day, reality does. Life is good, and we do live i an amazing country, but that doesn’t mean you should ignore the ugly side! What I hate most about the world is being surrounded by mostly retards who talk nonsense all day and dumb themselves down with little outside encouragement

NZ-truth, interesting that you thing a retarded person can get through the training necessary to become a GP in New Zealand. I suspect your sole contact with a retarded person is restricted to seeing one in the mirror each day.
Don’t underestimate your GP, she will be able to help you overcome your paranoia.

Good luck,
Gary

“Nice post Lombeer. Now we know where you anti-vaccine people got your science education.”

Posted by Troll | September 4, 2009, 10:08 am

No Shnazzer, you misunderstood me, I linked to that from ‘Science based medicine’

When they say “science based” do they mean like “based on a true story”? you know, like ’snakes on a plane’ is loosely based on the story of 911?

Troll, many people you think are smart are infact retarded. I have friends who have engineering degrees and are calculus genius’s yet do not understand basic political models, left/right, socialism/ communism…just nothing! If you go through life without questioning (seriously) your surroundings, you must be retarded. I also know “educated” people who have never wondered about the origin of life! That is fucked, it is the only thing that distinguishes us from animals. I can remember wondering why/how we are here from about age 4 and I still do!

nz_truth, Thanks for clarifying your definition of ‘retarded’. You are saying that anyone who doesn’t share your interests is retarded. Hmmm. Unusual definition.
I am however relieved to learn that you do not know how life started. There is hope for you yet. So many religious people claim to know all about the origin of life.
I presume we agree that once life started, the evolution process, discovered by Darwin, led to the amazing variety of life that now exists?

When they say “science based” do they mean like “based on a true story”? you know, like ’snakes on a plane’ is loosely based on the story of 911?

You will find the answer to your question here: http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=42

Below is a cutting from the article.

“Some might be surprised to find that EBM (evidence based medicine) is not synonymous with “science-based medicine.” Although based on previous, evolving standards of clinical trial designs, statistics, epidemiological methods and other pertinent tools, EBM is a semi-formal movement within modern medicine that has existed for fewer than 20 years; it comprises sets of guidelines for assessing evidence, which will be discussed further below.”

There is a significant difference between ‘evidence based’ and ’science based’. I am sure you will be able to google-educate yourself on the subject,

How a discussion can drift away from its original intent could be the most interesting theme of this thread. Much of what is being written here has little to do with Kevin’s piece, which describes the amazing diversity of the 9/11 Truth movement.

In fact, this diversity is a double-edged sword. One challenge more than one 9/11 Truth leader has faced was how to get people who harbor visceral and honest disagreements on multiple issues to work together on 9/11. In fact, cultivating an ability to see people we disagree with as victims of the post-9/11 culture is a pre-requisite to making 9/11 Truth a potent and impossible to ignore political and social force.

Love,

9/11 Truth. Yeah right.

Troll you spin doctor, I said anyone who does not question their reality is retarded, they dont have to agree ith me!

As for evolution, why do you only think of Darwin? And evolution or not the ORIGIN of life was the question at hand. The big bang theory doesn’t account for the mass and potential energy in the first place, as “energy can neither be created nor destroyed”, sorry for confusing you. This is the problem with rationalists like yourself, the fundementals are never questioned, same with the banking system, same with everything.

Darwin is recognised (along with Wallace to some extent) as the ‘discoverer’ of the main mechanisms of evolution.
Yes. The origin of life, while it may well have been an evolutionary process, is distinct from evolution as described by Darwin.
You have not confused me with your mention of big bang theory. It sounds like you are very confused by the idea of the universe arising out of ‘nothing’. But then when you look more closely at the nature of ‘nothing’ then some sense can be made of it. Perhaps the new big collider experiments will give us more insight into this area.
The good thing about rationalists like me is that we are not irrational. Rational skeptics question all the fundamentals and use the scientific method to find out how things really work. This seems to be a more productive way than cowering in fear of imagined conspiracies.

Regards
Gary

PS, BTW I can heartily recommend Emerson’s Hoppy Porter.

So much crap is carried out under the banner of “Science” since it goes over most people’s heads. This is why we are heading towards a scientific dictatorship headed by occultists who cleverly use the passions of atheists and nihilists. Read Brave New World, if you want an example of a rationalist society taken to its logical efficient extreme. It leaves no room for objective morality or freedom for that matter. But hey, don’t let me drag you away from the monastery

Yes, like Obamas appointed Science Czar, who in his book advocated,

Women could be forced to abort their pregnancies, whether they wanted to or not;
• The population at large could be sterilized by infertility drugs intentionally put into the nation’s drinking water or in food;
• Single mothers and teen mothers should have their babies seized from them against their will and given away to other couples to raise;
• People who “contribute to social deterioration” (i.e. undesirables) “can be required by law to exercise reproductive responsibility” — in other words, be compelled to have abortions or be sterilized.
• A transnational “Planetary Regime” should assume control of the global economy and also dictate the most intimate details of Americans’ lives — using an armed international police force.

Proof science, and more medical science has one true aim, to make money, and extension of sickness for maximum profits.
Proof of this like regularity in the court rooms Phizer just got sued again, this time 2.3 billion for fraud http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/health/2009-09-02-pfizer-fine_N.htm

Well at least unlike Merck, who helped in the demise of 60,000 citizens+ with their wonder drug VIOXX, continued their rise in stocks with the amazingly useless Gardasil just 2 weeks ago got slated as worthless, and caused deaths and paralysis. But hang on, several years ago penile cancer due to HPV virus was under 10% of cases, now, with Mercks pending drive to vaccinate all boys with Gardasil, a “new” study remarkably shows it more like 50% and teeters on a “epidemic”

Ohh and before you reply Troll, please answer this,
Why are so many qualified Doctors and Nurses refusing to take the pending H1N1 Vaccine,

Heres some findings,
They believe the Vaccine is dangerous.
They belive its will create more problems.
They know it doesn’t have adequate testing.
It has previously FDA banned Squalene in it, FDA has approved it as safe for this vaccine.
Heres ONE story. http://www.postchronicle.com/news/original/article_212254207.shtml

Yes NZ we are heading towards a scientific dictatorship, its well on its was, so many people believe scientists without question, we are so conditioned to believe our new gods that they don’t even have to be scientists they only need to be wearing a white coat and be referred to as ‘experts’.
Science has its place and we do need it. But a lot of scientific “fact” is simply someone’s theory that has yet to be proven wrong. Big bang, classic example. Tricky one to prove really.
But despite what the trollster is bound to say, science IS a religion, because the VAST majority of ‘believers’ of science have zero scientific knowledge, therefore it is by definition a faith based religion.

Science is, for the most part bought and paid for.
Drug companies can hire teams of scientists to eventually land on the results they desire and the lawyers to sue and silence the results they don’t like.
Where as well meaning scientists who are, for example, concerned about the safety of GE crops may not, depending on the company, even be allowed access to the crops for testing purposes, for IP reasons, so its claimed. Let alone the time/money aspect of scientifically testing and retesting products and or theories.
People think “well product X must be safe or it would not be on the shelves of the supermarket” not true. Who has tested the product? governmentally regulated, independently audited? they have limited resources and to be honest I’m not sure they want what’s best for us anyway.
And as for the ‘not for profit foundations’ backed by oil and drug money well, they are heavily compromised, and not to put to finer point on it many of them want us humans eradicated ( except the super rich naturally ).

Then there is Darwin and all his inbred ancestors. I have to laugh, yea darwin way to rip your dad’s ideas off and take credit for them. Still I get alot of chuckles out of knowing his descendants are a bunch of chinless snaggle-toothed banjo pickers, how’s your superhuman (as he thought his ancestors would be if they kept breeding with the ‘right’ families over and over again) looking now Darwin? Git.

Science is also being used to bring about this whole carbon dioxide boogyman hype BS.
Sure we have massive problems with human impact on the environment, such as plastic waste, wastewater, effluent runoff, GE contamination, depletion of fish stocks, deforestation, vehicle emissions and fuel additives etc etc. But CO2 ain’t the end of the frakin’ world.

Not really the thread for it, as Dan quite rightly pointed out, but hey rules are boring anyway…

But now that I have just committed the most heinous of thought crimes ‘global warming denial’ I guess I can just kick back and wait for the troll abuse to come rollin’ on in, or worse!! Gary and his crack team of thought-police-ninjas will be round to kick in my door and drag me off for re-education. Ha you can’t I’m on holiday.

“So much crap is carried out under the banner of “Science” since it goes over most people’s heads.” says nz_truth.
The second part is so true, especially of those who write for this blog and most of the comment posters. Lorraine, nz_truth, lombeer and Philip are prime examples of people with only a vague idea of how science works. They are naturally afraid of what they do not understand.
Lombeer’s comment “But a lot of scientific “fact” is simply someone’s theory that has yet to be proven wrong” clearly shows his confusion between the common meaning of ‘theory’ and the meaning of the word in the scientific context.

There are lots of basic science courses available for you guys, but if you don’t want to go back to school and pay attention this time, you can do worse than read Richard Dawkins books.

Kind regards
Gary

PS. You won’t hear from me again today – I’m working.
But don’t fret little ones, I will be back tomorrow.

Yea, Gaz, the validity of your sad attempt to discredit me (not that I have any credibility, this is the net after all) is only tarnished buy the fact that I did a bsc in environmental science, environmental management and geology, so I guess you could say I come from a science background.
The trouble with you scientific rationalists, or whatever you are calling yourself trolly polly, is that you are so far behind, you think you are winning.
Cos while you are waiting for the results of your bought and paid for agenda setting science, peer reviewed by other bought and paid for scientists the world is going to pass you by. I don’t have the answers, but I’m not going to stop asking questions just because an ‘expert’ tells me there are no more questions to ask and everything is fine and I should go back to sleep.
The first inkling you and your ilk will have, gaz, that some of what has been discussed on this site was true, will be when sites like this start being shut down.
What you gunna do for kicks then trollski, dig a bigger hole?
We are descending in a authoritarian society, where the ‘authorities’ dictate every aspect of your life and criminalise practically everything.
And all of this trickles back to the events of 911, ha see, I brought it back on topic!

“Lombeer’s comment “But a lot of scientific “fact” is simply someone’s theory that has yet to be proven wrong” clearly shows his confusion between the common meaning of ‘theory’ and the meaning of the word in the scientific context”

Gary speak for yourself, you always throw around the term conspiracy theory regardless of empirical facts. I would also suggest I know more about science than you think. Science provides useful tools to the scientist to theoretically deconstruct physical systems. In simple terms I would compare it to a tool set for a mechanic; you can deconstruct a car, but the tool set will never explain the reason for the cars existence. Similarly science will never explain the reason for our existence, it can’t right from the get go! “Energy cannot be created nor destroyed only changed from one form to another” which leads to the robot in a wheelchair concluding “there is no beginning and there is no end”. To which I say bullshit! And yes Gary I have read Dawkins and all the other mason crap, I know about fold space etc. Like I say don’t let me interfere with your FAITH

So Lombeer, you weren’t paying attention during your university studies either? Like my friend with a BSc who is sure that Noah’s flood happened exactly as described in the Bible, that the world is only 6000 years old and that T-Rex coexisted with man. His science degree didn’t do him any good and neither has yours.

Perhaps you could learn from nz_truth. He knows more about Physics and Zoology that Hawkins and Dawkins. Ha ha ha.

You two are hilarious. Keep up the entertaining posts, but try to refrain from leading people astray regarding vaccination.

Regards,
Gary

PS. What is the current estimate of the total energy in the known Universe, ‘I Am You’?

Bwah bwahhhh. Wow I’m crushed, you mean you don’t believe I’m a scientist just cos I said I am? kneel down and worship me Trolly-poley for I am one of your white coated Gods, behold my awesome slide rule of doom! Pay homage to me by bringing me offerings of pocket protectors and clip boards! You have offended the Gods of science Gawee, now you must pay, no more SBM for a whole week!

Some great discourse here over the weekend:

“Gary, Alex, Shadow
This maybe a game to you guys, but in the real world we are engaged in a war.
I refuse to be a casualty of this war and when, not if, but when it spills from the comfort of the internet on to the streets you better be sure whose side you’re on! You won’t be able to dodge bullets like you can information! And you won’t be able to say the bullets are part of our paranoid minds either.”

So you’re a ‘resistance fighter’ subverting the Illuminati ‘New World Order’’s war on the human race from the ‘information underground’ of the Internet huh? Nice bit of self-mythologising.
In the real world people are laughing at you for believing every gibber that falls out of David Icke and Alex Jones’s mouth.

“This is why we are heading towards a scientific dictatorship headed by occultists who cleverly use the passions of atheists and nihilists. Read Brave New World, if you want an example of a rationalist society taken to its logical efficient extreme. It leaves no room for objective morality or freedom for that matter.”

Brave New World is fiction, not non-fiction. Have you read Huxley’s last novel ‘Island’ which postulates a society pretty much the exact opposite of the one he writes about in Brave New World? Why isn’t this book held up as the future of humanity? Next you’ll be saying that ‘The Matrix’ films are actually thinly veiled allegories for the ‘true’ Illuminati plots to take over the human race…oh…wait…didn’t David Icke write a book arguing as much? well, L. Ron Hubbard made a mint establishing a religion based upon the premise that one of his terrible pulp sci-fi scenarios was actually the ‘true’ history of the universe, so guess Dave and co. have a good pedigree to follow…

“Yes NZ we are heading towards a scientific dictatorship, its well on its was, so many people believe scientists without question, we are so conditioned to believe our new gods that they don’t even have to be scientists they only need to be wearing a white coat and be referred to as ‘experts’.”

Not like conspiracy culture at all is it, where any ‘truthseeker’ can set up a website regurgitating left over John Birch society bollocks, Neo-Nazi memes, and New Age twaddle, then present themselves as experts regarding the ‘truth’ of the Illuminati New World Order.

So Alex, nice to see you have faith in your assertion that pop culture books and movies are fiction and not serving a double purpose. I guess you also ignore the fact that the FBI uses plants in Hollywood to spy on writers and insert threads etc? I guess you would care to explain the Lone Gunmen 9/11 episode. Or maybe the references in the movie, “Teddy Bears Picnic”. Yes the elite boast of plots in their movies, to fictionalise reality. And look how it works perfectly on you Alex! Too much faith in powerful men Alex, you think they are as stupid and harmless as you and your genius friends. You talk about “New Age twaddle” what do you think Bohemian Grove is? Have you ever watched a Disney movie that most people feed their kids? Do you know subliminals are also used on TV? Coke officially created the first. And no I don’t believe everything on conspiracy websites, I don’t believe in the reptilian theory. And although there have been plenty of strange sightings I’m not convinced aliens are visiting either. Why would I be worried about aliens when we have “Humans” like you?

“One of the most frustrating aspects of being a skeptic and championing science-based medicine is just how unyielding belief in pseudscience is. Whatever realm of science in which there is pseudoscience I wander into, I find beliefs that simply will not yield to science or reason. Whether it be creationism, quackery such as homeopathy, the anti-vaccine movement, the “9/11 Truth” movement, moon hoaxers, or any of a number of pseudoscientific movements and conspiracy theories, any skeptic who ventures into discussions of such a topic with believers will become very frustrated very fast. It takes a lot of tenacity to keep going back to the well to argue the same points over and over again and refute the same nonsense you’ve refuted over and over again. Many do not have sufficient stick-to-it-iveness, leading them to throw up their hands and withdraw from the fight.”

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=1133#more-1133

You don’t believe in alien visitation? Wow nz_truth, that must be the only crackpot crap you don’t believe in!

Well I don’t believe in a faked moon landing, I don’t care too much about Diana’s death, she mixed with the blue bloods afterall. You see I go where I see the evidence lead, I dont jump on a bandwagon of like thought.

Is there any government crap you don’t believe in?

Time for a freedom rant…..

For years now under our sophisticated yet fangasmic leadership the National Party has produced some of the finest men to walk our shores. We have fought along side men of dignity, valour and pride of which the nation will never see again because you people have destroyed any hope of forging bonds internationally like we did in WW2. On the shores of Sicily we bonded with our brothers searching for democracy freedom and the never ending will to give our enemies the rights capabilities and loving freedom of ourselves. Yet today in these times of lies conspiracies and death on all sides you people have the nerve to blame 9/11 on America. America is the pride of our world. They brought a democratic republic to the forefront of political decision making through out the world. They fought on Omaha beach to kill the evil nazis when the world needed them most and now when they need us you abandon them. Lady liberty truely has a tear in her eye. Do you people attend ANZAC day on the celebration of our men in uniform. You people are all fine to blame 9/11 on America, but were you one of the 2,000 that died or the millions that were affected by that dastardly act. It makes me sick to the stomach to see my nation disapproving of a nation that went to war to save us all. If America had not sacrificed so many of its brave men and women in uniform NZ could have come out bottom on the end of the shit stick. You people are hippies who have no idea of what it could have been like for NZ to end. Can you imagine if NZ ended because of an invading force. America needs us and you are abandoning them. Abandoning them like they could have so easily abandoned us in the 2nd world war. Vote National and our Messiah.

Does nz_truth believe in God and the resurrection of Jesus?

When you can’t answer a simple question Gary, I’m certainly not gonna play into your straw man arguments! Get a life

Got a life thanks ‘nz-truth’. Very nice it is too, not being hampered by fear of imaginary conspiracies. I can also take advantage of modern medicine and vaccination rather than being at the mercy of acupuncturists, homeopathists and other such witch doctors and quacks.

And, yes, I don’t believe any government crap.

Regards
Gary

I’m glad you enjoy working for central bankers and cannot understand the deception of fractional reserve banking. The solace of the fool!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlqhMjsuuKk

Isn’t it amazing how many real or imagined conspiracies 9/11 opens the door to? Indeed, the revelation that institutions that we trust to educate, inform and serve us would lie to us on such an important matter justifies much suspicion.

Religious leaders have looked the other way on 9/11, although it is a prime example of human activity running against Divine will–no offense meant to atheists. Would they have lied to us on mundane theological matters? Who knows?

The media dutifully defended the official myth of “2 planes + office fires = 3 skyscrapers pulverized in free fall.” They ignored truth-seekers, except to ridicule or demonize them. Would they have lied on other important matters? Maybe.

Governments lied to their teeth about the nature of 9/11. They claimed to protect us while they were terrorizing us. Would they have lied to us on other matters? Why not?

9/11 forces us to be more suspicious of official information and activities. As such, it opens the door to a multitude of real or potential conspiracies. Alas, demonstrating most of them is not nearly as easy as establishing that the 3 World Trade Center towers were demolished with carefully dosed, placed and timed explosives. As such, they are bound to drift into wedge issues.

Why can’t we just focus on 9/11? At least, there is no question as to whether we were lied to. On this one, all the people of this planet can unite and request that the institutions they trust serve them better than by terrorizing them and sending them to endless wars.

9/11’s stake, if we manage it right, is nothing less than getting, at long last, public servants to serve the public. Isn’t this worth forgetting about other disputes and standing together?

Love,

Get a job and get out of Starbucks their free internet may be appealing but is bent.

Hello All,
Thankyou for taking time out of your busy day I’m sure winz are sick of seeing you. For too long have i been persecuted for supposedly being the one we call “gary”. I believe that yes, he is a fantastic fellow BUT I am not gary. Let me repeat myself I am not gary, I am not gary, I am not gary I am not gary.

Thankyou for your time I’m sure you are very busy plotting the downfall of vaccination and logic plus that horrid thing called science.

Signing off yet again,
Roger Vote National and possibly the non-racist wing of the BNP oh and wanna create a british imperialist party im so uber keen. LOL!

I don’t think you are gary roger, I think you are rodney plus gary kan spelle werdz propalee. Unlyke U.

I find it very interesting as an observer that Roger, Gary and Shadow all vote National. I also find it very sad that Roger, Gary, Troll, Shadow spend their days trying to debunk gorgeous, amazing, talented, wonderfully articulate truth speakers. I propose a media debate. If you really believe in what you believe in (Troll, Alex, Shadow etc) then this should be of no concern to you. If I were to to set up a debate on Cambell live would you be interested?

Ursula, if you can setup anything on Campbell live I would be very interested! As for Gary, troll etc there isn’t much in the fact they are national supporters. They are just like the idiots on the left in the sense that they truly believe in the two party system. They get worked up about dole bludgers yet don’t care about foreign banks indebting the nation with fiat currency. They are typical fake conservatives, fake patriots who love fake freedom- useful idiots to higher political processes!

NZ’s post at 2:24 am hits it dead center!

“They are just like the idiots on the left in the sense that they truly believe in the two party system.”

I am very familiar with these willingly ignorant pseudo-conservatives: since neoconservative American talk radio is basically an assembly line for these synthetics.

They come away from their radio entertainers all pumped up to do battle with “the left”, and they sound very much like Gary and aliases as they pompously blame everything that is wrong with the nation on the Democrats and environmentalists.

When I used to post at a local newspaper’s website, I was ridiculed on a rather steady basis by a Limbaugh clone who was just as cocky (and misinformed) as Gary (and his imaginary friends). Rush Limbaugh is a tool of the “invisible government,” and while he is telling his audience what they want to hear; it never dawns on his mesmerized followers how precious little real difference there is between the “top tier” politicians in the “two” major parties.

http://radioliberty.com/nlmar05.html “President Clinton didn’t investigate the illegal activity that took place during the first Bush administration, President George W. Bush didn’t investigate the murders, the illegal activity, and the presidential pardons that were granted to criminals during the Clinton administration.” – Dr. Monteith __ What do we see Barack Obama doing to hold George W. Bush accountable for his eight years of illegal activity? Predictably nothing!

As NZ_Truth stated above: “They get worked up about dole bludgers yet don’t care about foreign banks indebting the nation with fiat currency. They are typical fake conservatives, fake patriots who love fake freedom- useful idiots to higher political processes!”

“Useful idiot” perfectly describes Gary and aliases. Complete dupes of the fake opposition between the major parties. Too stubborn to learn anything from the good information posted here, he will just stumble on in his blindness; cursing those who can see, and being a stumbling block to as many readers as possible.

“The search for 9/11 truth IS an awakening,” and trolls want nothing to do with waking up.

Trolls love the darkness.

Sleep on troll; and send your ill-informed posts to your troll websites.

“Scholars and professionals with various kinds of expertise—including architects, engineers, firefighters, intelligence officers, lawyers, medical professionals, military officers, philosophers, religious leaders, physical scientists, and pilots—have spoken out about radical discrepancies between the official account of the 9/11 attacks and what they, as independent researchers, have learned.

They have established beyond any reasonable doubt that the official account of 9/11 is false and that, therefore, the official “investigations” have really been cover-up operations.

Thus far, however, there has been no response from political leaders in Washington or, for that matter, in other capitals around the world.

Our organization, Political Leaders for 9/11 Truth, has been formed to help bring about such a response. We believe that the truth about 9/11 needs to be exposed now—not in 50 years as a footnote in the history books—so the policies that have been based on the Bush-Cheney administration’s interpretation of the 9/11 attacks can be changed.

We are, therefore, calling for a new, independent investigation of 9/11 that takes account of evidence that has been documented by independent researchers but thus far ignored by governments and the mainstream media.”

- Political Leaders for 9/11 Truth http://pl911truth.com/

Complete 911 Timeline http://www.historycommons.org/project.jsp?project=911_project

“Pilots for 9/11 Truth is an organization of aviation professionals and pilots throughout the globe who have gathered together for one purpose. We are committed to seeking the truth surrounding the events of the 11th of September 2001. Our main focus concentrates on the four flights, maneuvers performed and the reported pilots. We do not offer theory or point blame at this point in time. However, we are focused on determining the truth of that fateful day based on solid data and facts — since 9/11/2001 is the catalyst for many of the events shaping our world today — and the United States Government doesn’t seem to be very forthcoming with answers or facts.”

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/

http://www.v911t.org/21_DVDs_Truth.php

http://www.ae911truth.org/ _ http://firefightersfor911truth.org/ _ http://v911t.org/

Nice posts Phil and Truth, on the money. Some creatures are happy chasing their own tails. Controlled left, controlled right, its all controlled.

The left/ right paradigm is there to distract and divide people. Once you see that the world and what goes on in it makes a lot more sense. It also makes the ones controlling the game a lot easier to see.

The sooner people wake up to the fact these are mearly an illusion the sooner we can change things.

Ursula, you are foolish to think that the truth of a matter can be arrived at by debating it in TV.
You say I vote National. How do you know this? I do not believe in the collective wisdom of individual stupidity so why would I vote at all?

I am not roger, shadow or alex. I am Troll, I am invincible, I am Gary.

[9:24 am] …invincible ignorance!

The site’s “resident imposter” is just as uninformed regarding 9/11 Truth as he was a year ago.

Irreversibly cemented in error.

Poor braindead fellow…

…terrified of websites exposing the official 9/11 story!
___________________________________

Thank you for the compliment, lombeer.

Interesting how everyone who appreciates this site, and actually reads the articles and posts, understands the “Myth of the two-party System.” While Gary & Company revel in being in a dense fog. Free from the trials of independent thought, and looking forward to complete submission to Big Brother’s all-seeing eye.

Vaccines are safe and effective – aspartame is harmless – the skies are normally white – burning jet fuel converts concrete to fine dust!

Protest Aotea Square Saturaday 12pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EncR6b4IAAY

What are protesting about?

I’ll admit that was stupid? What is it though?

“Lombeer’s comment “But a lot of scientific “fact” is simply someone’s theory that has yet to be proven wrong” clearly shows his confusion between the common meaning of ‘theory’ and the meaning of the word in the scientific context”.
Troll I wonder how you were educated?
Theory according to the English dictionary is: set of ideas to explain something; abstract knowledge or reasoning;idea or opinion; ideal or hypothetical situation. For all my years involved in the scientific context I have not found a different meaning of theory.

Watch the video Roger!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EncR6b4IAAY

You and any doubters are welcome!

There is a bank across the road to make bets easy!

According to the United States National Academy of Sciences,
Some scientific explanations are so well established that no new evidence is likely to alter them. The explanation becomes a scientific theory. In everyday language a theory means a hunch or speculation. Not so in science. In science, the word theory refers to a comprehensive explanation of an important feature of nature supported by facts gathered over time. Theories also allow scientists to make predictions about as yet unobserved phenomena, [5]

Lombeer was confusing the everyday meaning with the science meaning.

Regards
Gary

… and :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlqhMjsuuKk

Let’s give thanks to Gary for reminding us of what a theory is to scientists. May I add that engineering professionals work–and make a living–by obeying scientific theory in all their activities.

As such, 9/11’s official conspiracy theory of “2 planes + offices fires = 3 skyscrapers disintegrating in free fall” is valid until a scientist–from a smart high school graduate on–finds its major flaws. From then on, someone with more scientific or engineering talent can formulate the theory of controlled demolition, which matches the video evidence of 9/11.

Interestingly, as more evidence has surfaced about 9/11, the theory of controlled demolition has consistently been confirmed, to the point that it is no longer reasonable for a scientist or an engineer to doubt it.

Love,

“about 9/11, the theory of controlled demolition has consistently been confirmed, to the point that it is no longer reasonable for a scientist or an engineer to doubt it.”

Bang on (IMOHO), Dan – couldn’t agree more and that’s because a controlled demolition looks just like this :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlqhMjsuuKk

First of all, I don’t vote national or whatever the name of that party is in your country. I’m a Yank as you people so quaintly call us.

It is true what another person said on this thread about America’s selfless role in world affairs over the last hundred years or so and counting.

We do not need a “full investigation” into 9/11. There is nothing there to investigate, it is all very clear to clear thinkers with even a tiny iota of common sense. Planes hit towers, towers are weakened, they burn for a time and get weakened more, said towers fall down. Honestly people, enough already…there is nothing there.

There is no conspiracy, yes it is entirely possible for a small group of intelligent , well funded terrorists to pull this off. Just like the conspiracy where people say FDR knew ahead of time about Pearl Harbor, just like Roswell, and so on and so on.

I’ve given you the facts of the attack. Those are the facts, the vast majority, 99.999% of engineers agree( that equals 699,198 engineers vs your 808. That alone should be enough to settle this, but , of course it is not.

Somehow, all you have to do is just connect one more dot and “it will all fall into place” …except that dot never quite gets connected does it…there’s never quite enough evidence to prove Roswell was a crashed alien spacecraft…Not quite a smoking gun to prove FDR allowed the Japanese to attack Pearl , just so we could get into WWII…but that doesn’t stop people from claiming…”They know the truth”

Just like 9/11 conspiracies today. A fact here, a rumor there, throw out inconvenient things like photographs and testimony that doesn’t fit the pre-approved scenario and that is a “proven” conspiracy in the eyes of the true believers.

We Yanks know who our enemy is and it is not us. Terrorists truly do exist, it’s not a collective hallucination on our part. They really did attack us 8 years ago today. It was a conspiracy alright that much is true, but it had nothing to do with the United States government or anyone associated with it. It was Osama, he had the money, the knowledge, the followers and the key people he needed to plan and execute this attack…and most of all, he had the burning hatred of all things western , despite his wealthy upbringing. He friggen admitted planning it along with Kahlid Sheik Muhammed ( the guy we have in custody that spilled the beans about Al Qeda operations. He sang like a canary) because of him in custody we’ve learned quite a bit about how everything came together.

The government does lie, that has always been true since governments came into being and politicians figured out how to flim flam their constituents. That doesn’t mean they conspired to attack their own country all so they could start a war with a bunch of people riding camels and living in caves , mud huts and tents.

It is patently absurd to believe any of the claims of 9/11 truthers when you look at the facts of the case. It is patently absurd to believe any conspiracy theory is true for that matter, yet, some people still do.

Shadow, I’d sing like a canary too if I was waterboarded 183 times you evil freak, I would have admitted to being the tooth fairy, don’t make it true.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article6130165.ece

You have lost your country and you don’t even know it. There was coup in you country 8 years ago today. Happy anniversary.

You dis AE911.org and claim only 800 architects and engineers believe the conspiracy theory, No Shadow there are only 800 with any balls.
There is no courage in accepting the status quo, as you do.

Full, open investigation into 911 NOW, the first investigation was compromised and untrustworthy. Like you.

http://uncensored.co.nz/2009/09/10/charlie-sheen-twenty-minutes-with-the-president/

All I have to say on this topic for now. Over to Ani.

http://www.righteousbabe.com/ani/l_self_evident.asp

yes,
us people are just poems
we’re 90% metaphor
with a leanness of meaning
approaching hyper-distillation
and once upon a time
we were moonshine
rushing down the throat of a giraffe
yes, rushing down the long hallway
despite what the p.a. announcement says
yes, rushing down the long stairs
with the whiskey of eternity
fermented and distilled
to eighteen minutes
burning down our throats
down the hall
down the stairs
in a building so tall
that it will always be there
yes, it’s part of a pair
there on the bow of noah’s ark
the most prestigious couple
just kickin back parked
against a perfectly blue sky
on a morning beatific
in its indian summer breeze
on the day that america
fell to its knees
after strutting around for a century
without saying thank you
or please

and the shock was subsonic
and the smoke was deafening
between the setup and the punch line
cuz we were all on time for work that day
we all boarded that plane for to fly
and then while the fires were raging
we all climbed up on the windowsill
and then we all held hands
and jumped into the sky

and every borough looked up when it heard the first blast
and then every dumb action movie was summarily surpassed
and the exodus uptown by foot and motorcar
looked more like war than anything i’ve seen so far
so far
so far
so fierce and ingenious
a poetic specter so far gone
that every jackass newscaster was struck dumb and stumbling
over ‘oh my god’ and ‘this is unbelievable’ and on and on
and i’ll tell you what, while we’re at it
you can keep the pentagon
keep the propaganda
keep each and every tv
that’s been trying to convince me
to participate
in some prep school punk’s plan to perpetuate retribution
perpetuate retribution
even as the blue toxic smoke of our lesson in retribution
is still hanging in the air
and there’s ash on our shoes
and there’s ash in our hair
and there’s a fine silt on every mantle
from hell’s kitchen to brooklyn
and the streets are full of stories
sudden twists and near misses
and soon every open bar is crammed to the rafters
with tales of narrowly averted disasters
and the whiskey is flowin
like never before
as all over the country
folks just shake their heads
and pour

so here’s a toast to all the folks who live in palestine
afghanistan
iraq

el salvador

here’s a toast to the folks living on the pine ridge reservation
under the stone cold gaze of mt. rushmore

here’s a toast to all those nurses and doctors
who daily provide women with a choice
who stand down a threat the size of oklahoma city
just to listen to a young woman’s voice

here’s a toast to all the folks on death row right now
awaiting the executioner’s guillotine
who are shackled there with dread and can only escape into their heads
to find peace in the form of a dream

cuz take away our playstations
and we are a third world nation
under the thumb of some blue blood royal son
who stole the oval office and that phony election
i mean
it don’t take a weatherman
to look around and see the weather
jeb said he’d deliver florida, folks
and boy did he ever

and we hold these truths to be self evident:
#1 george w. bush is not president
#2 america is not a true democracy
#3 the media is not fooling me
cuz i am a poem heeding hyper-distillation
i’ve got no room for a lie so verbose
i’m looking out over my whole human family
and i’m raising my glass in a toast

here’s to our last drink of fossil fuels
let us vow to get off of this sauce
shoo away the swarms of commuter planes
and find that train ticket we lost
cuz once upon a time the line followed the river
and peeked into all the backyards
and the laundry was waving
the graffiti was teasing us
from brick walls and bridges
we were rolling over ridges
through valleys
under stars
i dream of touring like duke ellington
in my own railroad car
i dream of waiting on the tall blonde wooden benches
in a grand station aglow with grace
and then standing out on the platform
and feeling the air on my face

give back the night its distant whistle
give the darkness back its soul
give the big oil companies the finger finally
and relearn how to rock-n-roll
yes, the lessons are all around us and a change is waiting there
so it’s time to pick through the rubble, clean the streets
and clear the air
get our government to pull its big dick out of the sand
of someone else’s desert
put it back in its pants
and quit the hypocritical chants of
freedom forever

cuz when one lone phone rang
in two thousand and one
at ten after nine
on nine one one
which is the number we all called
when that lone phone rang right off the wall
right off our desk and down the long hall
down the long stairs
in a building so tall
that the whole world turned
just to watch it fall
and while we’re at it
remember the first time around?
the bomb?
the ryder truck?
the parking garage?
the princess that didn’t even feel the pea?
remember joking around in our apartment on avenue D?

can you imagine how many paper coffee cups would have to change their design
following a fantastical reversal of the new york skyline?!

it was a joke, of course
it was a joke
at the time
and that was just a few years ago
so let the record show
that the FBI was all over that case
that the plot was obvious and in everybody’s face
and scoping that scene
religiously
the CIA
or is it KGB?
committing countless crimes against humanity
with this kind of eventuality
as its excuse
for abuse after expensive abuse
and it didn’t have a clue
look, another window to see through
way up here
on the 104th floor
look
another key
another door
10% literal
90% metaphor
3000 some poems disguised as people
on an almost too perfect day
should be more than pawns
in some asshole’s passion play
so now it’s your job
and it’s my job
to make it that way
to make sure they didn’t die in vain
sshhhhhh….
baby listen
hear the train?

Bang on Righteous! LEST WE FORGET
911 The call to action?
611 The call to ….

Good people like Lombeer, Lorraine, Philip, Scott, Dan, Nz truth..(sorry if i missed anyone)
Amazing individuals that give a rats about the world and have the courage to stand up! WoooHoooo!

The “courage” to stand up and spout inanities?

None of what you people believe about this is even remotely true….yet you keep on plugging away.

No conspiracy theory can be completely proven, hence the appeal of conspiracy theories.

It gives people comfort to believe that there has to be some overreaching evil shadow force that actually controls things….when in reality , it’s nothing more than simple human frailties manifesting themselves in horrific ways.

9/11, the frailty of believing god told you to kill the infidels

Pearl Harbor, the frailty of conceit that if we just hit the U.S. fleet, they’ll cave.

Roswell, the frailty of belief that aliens would even waste time with this planet, let alone allow themselves to be captured.

It all comes down to fear on the part of the true believers. Fear of the unknown, fear that “They” are coming to get you, that “They” have ultimate control over our lives.

It simply isn’t true, the government can’t even run something as simple as a Post Office, and you expect people to believe they came up with, planned and executed one of the largest conspiracies ever conceived of …and NO ONE has talked??

While Lombeer et al, might very well be good people, as far as 9/11 goes, they are completely and utterly wrong. The things they believed happened on that day are wrong, hundreds of thousands of scientists and engineers do not agree with their assessment of 9/11. But they cling to 808 engineers/scientists and expect their opinions to overrule common sense and mountains of scientific evidence to the contrary.

It is the old adage, who are you going to believe? Me? or your lying eyes??

They’ve chosen to believe themselves and ignore the facts that don’t fit the template. They’ve chosen to disbelieve their own eyes in favor of a story.

Oh and Lombeer, that waterboarding saved countless American, and most likely New Zealander lives by preventing more attacks. It wasn’t a nice thing we did to KSM, but then again neither was planning and executing their plan to kill as many infidels as they could on 9/11. Someone you know might be alive today because of what we did to that monster.

But hey, ask yourself this…if he wasn’t involved…how did we get all this information about Al Qeda and the 9/11 plot from him?? …Oh that’s right , since you believe the government was involved, we just referred to OUR notes right Lombeer? And this whole torture thing was yet another ruse to “throw us off the trail” right Lombeer??

One last thing Lombeer, if there was a coup in my country back in ‘01…why was there an election in ‘08 that put a new group of politicians in charge?? Not a very effective coup if they went and let their boy lose the election now is it? See, that’s the problem with conspiracy theories, they don’t stand up to scrutiny.

But I’m sure you’ll come back with some inanity where the whole election was a fraud and Obama really isn’t the president right?

You are a nut case of the highest order and no rational person or people buy into your wild eyed conspiracy theories. Only your fellow kooks believe your shit

Lombeer, I did not claim 808 engineers believe 9/11…YOU guys did you moron.

Don’t you even know your own conspiracy theory??

Damn you’re one stupid fucker aren’t you.

Here we are with more recycled establishment rubbish regarding September 11th, from Gary’s shadow [6:08 pm]

And who do you suppose this proponent of the official 9/11 myth actually is?

Well, he is a zealous defender of the government’s conspiracy theory of “19 Arab hijackers”; so that should give readers an idea of where Gary’s shadow is coming from.

Like his soul mate Gary, this automaton refuses to acknowledge the vast amount of information already introduced into these discussion threads by regular readers of Uncensored online.

Everything that disagrees with the establishment view of the trolls and timewasters (that plague these threads with their disinfo) is ignored by them as they churn out the official story just like the robots that they are. Unwilling, or unable, to process the truth; they just keep parroting the globalist’s lies. Not one reader who appreciates this site is fooled by them. But, that does not impede their disinformation agenda.

Let’s examine some of the lies and distortions:

1. “We do not need a ‘full investigation’ into 9/11. There is nothing there to investigate, it is all very clear to clear thinkers with even a tiny iota of common sense. Planes hit towers, towers are weakened, they burn for a time and get weakened more, said towers fall down. Honestly people, enough already…there is nothing there.”

Not true. This is the view foisted upon a lazy and gullible television audience, but it is pure internationalist BS.

“There is nothing there to investigate, it is all very clear to clear thinkers…”

A blatant lie! The “new” troll still hasn’t explained this link:

41 U.S. Counter-Terrorism and Intelligence Agency Veterans Challenge the Official Account of 9/11
http://patriotsquestion911.com/Counterterrorism_Veterans.pdf

9/11 Truth steamrolls right over the idiocy and establishment lies peddled by Gary’s shadow.

These videos http://911rippleeffect.com/ and http://www.911weknow.com/911-mysteries-english destroy, completely, the erroneous view of 9/11 belligerently thrust upon readers of this website by Gary’s shadow posting approx. 76 messages in one day; taunting those who believe the truth and refuse to be pliable drones like the persistent timewasters.

Gary’s shadow cannot answer the 9/11 Ripple Effect video any more than he can explain the 9/11 Mysteries presentation:
http://www.911weknow.com/911-mysteries-english or video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8172271955308136871

Neither can the establishment’s “skeptic” face the truth presented here:

9/11 Blueprint for Truth, presented by Architect Richard Gage, founder of Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth …

video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8182697765360042032

These videos bury the false claims and disinformation of Gary’s shadow, our “resident imposter”, alex search, and any other debunkers-for-sport who enjoy baiting readers and avoiding the evidence every time it is presented.

The videos mentioned in this post debunk the gainsaying of every timewaster on these discussion threads.

Also the link “41 U.S. Counter-Terrorism and Intelligence Agency Veterans Challenge the Official Account of 9/11″!

The trolls will not go there and learn something. Don’t let them waste your time. Direct them right back to this post and make them explain the links presented here; or keep their ignorance and disinfo to themselves.

Gary’s shadow is promoting a lie.

He either knows the truth and pretends otherwise; or he is stubbornly misinformed. Either way, he is promoting a lie.

Yet another useful idiot for the conspiracy nuts.

Phil,

It is not the government’s theory of 19 Arab Hijackers…it is in fact the hijackers and their leaders which admitted they were the ones that did it. Osama bragged about the attacks and he hoped it would bring down our country’s financial system and thus our country.

You are the one that cherry picks facts to fit your narrative. I’m going on the words of our enemies and my own eyes as I watched the planes they controlled , smash into the towers.

All you people can do to counter the facts is to attack me and anyone else that dares disagree with your “official” story. You do not try to counter the facts, you attack the person stating the facts and expect rational people to flock to your side yet wonder why they don’t.

You are the problem you decry.

The videos mentioned in this post debunk the gainsaying of every timewaster on these discussion threads.

Also the link “41 U.S. Counter-Terrorism and Intelligence Agency Veterans Challenge the Official Account of 9/11″!

The trolls will not go there and learn something. Don’t let them waste your time. Direct them right back to this post and make them explain the links presented here; or keep their ignorance and disinfo to themselves.

You are the “attacker” – You are the debunker-for-sport – and YOU are the liar!

Watch the videos: the evidence deflates every phony argument timewasters have presented here… including yours, Gary’s shadow.

More links to conspiracy sites and videos does not prove your conspiracy Phil.

How on earth can someone like you that claims such intelligence , link to a conspiracy site to prove a conspiracy? It is patently absurd to do so.

If I’m lying, then scroll on up there skippy and take a shot at explaining how the facts I presented are wrong. Don’t link to another conspiracy site, you use your own personal knowledge of construction that you’ve gained in over 25 years in the industry to refute the facts Phil.

You can’t , otherwise you would have by now. All you can do is attack me and call me names. Frankly I could care less what you call me, the more you do , the less believeable you become.

Anyone can make a video and cut and edit it to show whatever they want. The question is, can YOU defend your theory on your own without linking to websites. Can YOU refute the facts with your own words based on your own personal knowledge of loads and structural assemblies.

Can you Phil?

Are these 41 “officials” part of the conspiracy and are now coming clean?? Or are they yet again just another group of truthers claiming this and that without any actual proof.

Phil, I’ve watched the videos, I’ve read your kook websites time and time again. I know more about your conspiracy than even you do…So how about trying to defend your position with your own knowledge.

Think you can do it Phil??

“I know more about your conspiracy than even you do…”

Interesting admission.

Gary’s shadow is a government agent.

Mystery solved.

wow, you really are a nut job.

If I were a government agent, why haven’t I sent in the goons yet to get you and shut you up?

I’ve been on this site for plenty of time to have my minions track you down and shut you up before you find …That one missing fact…you need to seal our fate?

Why on earth would I let someone, that is supposedly so close to the truth live long enough to expose our plan? If , as you contend, we are so all powerful , it would be nothing for us to find you in whatever country you are hiding in and simply make you disappear..or have “an accident”

But no, I and my fellow “government agents” let you spew all sorts of inanities that you claim are true and will unmask the man behind the curtain.

Your claim is ludicrous.

Why don’t you just admit you can’t refute the facts in your own words Phil?

Just man up and admit you really don’t know the first thing about how to construct a building, let alone how to take one down. It’s ok man, not everyone has the intelligence or skill necessary to understand these things AND be able to put that knowledge into concrete and steel. You don’t have to feel inadequate because you don’t know.

But at least be a grown up about it and admit you are clueless and are just parroting what you read and hear. Calling me names just makes you look like a fool and destroys any credibility you think you may posses.

Just to put your fears to rest…you can come out from under the bed now..and take off the tinfoil hat dude.

The reason I know about your conspiracies is exactly how I stated it.

I READ THEM….you know all those links you nimrods keep posting to conspiracy sites and videos?

Yah, I read them and viewed them the first time you people posted them. Then went and looked up more, just so I could understand whom I was dealing with.

HENCE my contempt for your “facts” because they fly in the face of my years of hands on experience in the construction industry. Not to mention the overwhelming knowledge of hundreds of thousands of scientists and engineers backing me up.

You don’t need to be a government agent to read a website Phil….The reason I keep telling you nimrods to stop linking to conspiracy sites to prove a conspiracy is because it is a sign of the weakness of your argument.

When you try to define a word , you do not use the word you are trying to define as part of the definition.

You don’t define the word Green for instance by stating , It means it’s green.

That is, in effect, what you people are engaging in by continuing to link to various 9/11 truther sites to prove some contention on yet another 9/11 truther site. Don’t forget your fallback position…a Youtube video

Seriously man, step back and try to look at what you people are doing with a rational mind…You’ll quickly see the utter hilarity of your contentions and cherry picked facts.

Well, in a rational world you would…but since you don’t live in that world you’ll just call me a bunch of names and link to Aes9/11.org to “prove” your case.

Have a nice day.

“One last thing Lombeer, if there was a coup in my country back in ‘01…why was there an election in ‘08 that put a new group of politicians in charge?? Not a very effective coup if they went and let their boy lose the election now is it? See, that’s the problem with conspiracy theories, they don’t stand up to scrutiny.” [4:49 am]

Wrong again!

The color of the drapes in the White House might have changed after the 2008 election, but not much else.

Being the astute researcher of the conspiracy that you are, Gary’s shadow, you must know that the president’s wife is [or was] a Council on Foreign Relations Director, and Barack Obama himself had the full support of Trilateral Commission member Zbigniew Brzezinski.

http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_3536.shtml

_________________________________________________________

The Men Behind Obama by Webster Griffin Tarpley (2008) http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2330153707536467269#
_________________________________________________________

Q: Many citizens have discovered geopolitics and the behind-the-scenes reality of conflicts while researching the 9/11 cover-up; what would you like to say to those people who find out, much to their dismay, that many wars/attacks are actually orchestrated by States and/or interest groups against the interests of their own people.

Webster G. Tarpley: The problem of US foreign policy in this regard is not located mainly inside the US federal government, but is a result of the fact that US foreign policy is largely manufactured by powerful Wall Street banking interests who operate through such organizations as the [9], the Trilateral commission, the Bilderberger group [10], and the very insidious Mont Pelerin Society, which deals with economics.

Obama, Biden, Holbrook, and many others are the valets of these Wall Street bankers. These forces do not pursue an American national policy, which would for example dictate good relations between the US and Russia in the way that they were maintained during the American Revolution, during the American Civil War, and during the F.D. Roosevelt administration. Instead of an American national policy what we have is a policy agreeable to financiers and imperialists. This is also the mentality of the city of London, and also of parts of the European Commission and the European Central Bank. We live in an age of oligarchical preponderance across the globe. The only way that this can be remedied is by increased politicization and activism of parts of modern society which currently tend to be reduced to a stupor of passivity, apathy, and alienation by popular culture.

http://www.voltairenet.org/
___________________________________

The “two-party” system is a myth. Something readers of this site, that you tried to bully on September 1st, fully understand.

http://radioliberty.com/nljuly99.htm ___ http://radioliberty.com/nlaug99.htm

You will get nowhere trying to peddle myths on this website, Gary’s shadow.

What doesn’t “stand up to scrutiny” is your transparent disinformation agenda.

You will fail in your effort to debunk 9/11 Truth.

“The reason I keep telling you nimrods to stop linking to conspiracy sites to prove a conspiracy is because it is a sign of the weakness of your argument.” [6:47 am]

In your minds, it is you trolls who get to define a “conspiracy website.”

The “debunking 9/11 Truth” websites promote the government’s “19 Arab hijackers” conspiracy tale; and you trolls love to feed at their sites. Websites that promote the establishment’s conspiracy theory. So these sites that you trolls like to feed at are actually “conspiracy sites” as well!

Face it. You “nimrods” believe the government’s conspiracy tale; and the rest of us posting here do not!

You will fail in your effort to debunk 9/11 Truth.

Let’s examine some more of the lies and distortions:

“It is patently absurd to believe any of the claims of 9/11 truthers when you look at the facts of the case.” [6:08 pm]

Writen by someone who labels every site he is sent to “a conspiracy site” so that the evidence presented there can be rejected.

“The facts of the case” presented in the DVDs 9/11 Ripple Effect and 9/11 Mysteries Part 1: the Demolitions completely unravel the disinfo posted on this thread by Gary’s shadow.

http://911rippleeffect.com/ ___ http://www.911weknow.com/911-mysteries-english

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8172271955308136871

The silence coming from Gary’s shadow regarding these informative presentations says it all.

His playbook apparently does not instruct him on how to handle people that have seen these films. I have watched them several times.

Our debunker-for-sport is deflated by the information contained in these videos.
___________________________________

http://www.improbablecollapse.com/

You are failing in your effort to prove 9/11 truth you nimrod.

I have the facts on my side and the experience in the construction industry, along with literally hundreds of thousands of scientists and engineers supporting my contentions.

You have conspiracy websites, yes Phil, 9/11truth.org, Aes9/11.org and the myriad of other websites devoted to the conspiracy angle of 9/11 are by definition CONSPIRACY sites…they talk about nothing but the “conspiracy” of the United States government to perpetrate 9/11. I am not defining them as conspiracy sites..THEY define themselves as conspiracy sites. Wake up already.

I don’t trust my government any more than anyone else, but the same government you claim perpetrated this conspiracy so well that not one person involved has come forward after 8 years…is the same government that can’t run the Post Office , can’t run Medicare, can’t run Amtrak ( the trains in this country ) , can’t run the VA ( the Veteran’s Administration for our military ) etc etc.

From someone that sees the utter incompetence of the United States government on a daily basis and has to deal with said incompetence…it is beyond absurd to conclude they could pull of 9/11 without someone spilling the beans by now. It simply couldn’t happen.

So enough of your red herrings and straw man arguments.

Can you or can you not debate the actual facts in your own words , using your own personal knowledge of standard building practices and load bearing structures…Yes or no?

It’s a simple question, even a truther like you should be able to answer it Phil.

And no Phil, linking to Aes9/11.org is not your own words.

Linking to a Youtube video is not “hard evidence” to support your case.

Explain to me how a column designed to carry X amount of load is supposed to remain standing when X is doubled , tripled , or more.

Let’s start with that simple concept.

Can you explain how the laws of physics are suddenly non existent in this case..simply so it fits your scenario?

Let’s hear it Phil, how does a column carry 4 times the load it was designed to carry or more without failing? Because that , among other factors is precisely what happened on 9/11 and why the towers fell.

So, let’s hear it , in your own words. How is that possible??

Pricks back ! And he’s found a great way to spend the anniversary, it seems.

Prick ? Would you care to spam on for hours about this ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlqhMjsuuKk

Because I’m really not interested in anything else that you have to say.

This may be the longest thread Uncensored has ever had.

And easily half the posts are yours.

So you evil pricks must be getting pretty desperate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlqhMjsuuKk

… care to comment on the contents of the video?

Still linking to Youtube videos to prove your conspiracy I see Ewing.

Still calling people names to “prove” your case.

Still can’t refute the facts can you Ewing?

Poor thing, you , and others that believe as you do are destroying your credibility ( as if you actually had any to begin with ) by continuing to attack me instead of trying to debate the actual facts.

Can you answer the question of how a column designed to carry X amount of load is supposed to carry four times that load or more and NOT fail??

Nah, it’s much easier for people like you to call others names and ignore inconvenient facts. It’s much easier to keep your conspiracy theory going if you eliminate all facts that don’t fit the theory.

Saves you from all the troublesome critical thought needed to draw a logical and rational conclusion to a problem.

Much easier to assign a bogeyman, and build on that hypothesis, then to actually look at things rationally.

I know it’s hard for you to face the fact that you are living a lie. I mean you’ve devoted so much time on this effort and for what? 8 years later and you still can’t find that “smoking gun” you’ll need to finally once and for all prove Bush did it.

There is a reason there are so many conspiracy theories and precious few conspiracy FACTS.

I bet you don’t know why that is Ewing, do you?

Give me your construction based opinions and knowledge on what you see in the video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlqhMjsuuKk

or -fuck- -off- , Clare’s Shadow

Such “adult” commentary from a self proclaimed Knower of Truth.

I’m going to go out on a limb here and assume you can’t explain how a support column can hold up to four times its design load and not fail.

Ahh yes, the old 2 second video of the WTC7 collapse. I’ve previously answered this question.

It is called compression from the collapse. As the floors collapse , the air is compressed and it has to go somewhere, and as is always the case, the weakest link gives way first. The windows and their frames are designed to withstand pretty severe wind loads..however not the air pressure built up from a collapsing floor, and NOT coming from inside the building. They are designed to withstand wind loads coming from the outside.

Furthermore…IF those were explosions as you claim. The people that set them have no idea about how to take down a building with explosives. Go watch ANY video of a demolition crew setting up to bring down a building. They never go much higher than the first few floors. They don’t need to go much higher because…ummm , if you remove the lower support structures…the upper support structures are are useless and therefore do not need to be specifically addressed….You are counting on GRAVITY to finish the job. You would not place explosives in the upper floors…ESPECIALLY if you wanted to keep the controlled demolition a secret.

Why on earth announce to the world through video tape of explosions in WTC7 if you were trying to cover your tracks?

You dimwits never think past the pretty pictures and ask the critical questions. You just see what you want to see and move on from there, blissful in your ignorance.

Explain, in your “professional opinion” why they would place explosives in the top floors of a building they wished to destroy by stealth and subterfuge???

Total, instantaneous, and widespread structural failure at all points of its construction.

Free fall speed collapse.

And that building was built to last.

Sorry, I’m not buying your bullshit today (or any other day)

And fuck you for trying it on, by the way.

Here are the visuals again as well as comments

http://uncensored.co.nz/2009/09/03/world-trade-centre-7-collapse-video-gallery/#comments

Am familar with the pop mechanics world view on this and I think it’s bunk.

I think you are bunk, too.

Now – why don’t you leave us to our delusions, and go and brighten up someone elses’ day?

“Explain, in your “professional opinion” why they would place explosives in the top floors of a building they wished to destroy by stealth and subterfuge???”

I think the answer to that question is the same as to the question, ” Why would they try to poison us from gas dumped in the jet stream where it’s going to be diluted to undetectable levels and eventually rain into the oceans.?”

……They didn’t and they don’t.

Regards
Gary

http://uncensored.co.nz/2009/09/12/kevin-barrett-on-russian-television-talks-911/

Ewing

You are a useful idiot to conspiracy theories.

You think you know this or that and then when you read something by another person with similar delusions , it reinforces your own delusions of grandeur.

There was a conspiracy involved in 9/11 that much is true. But it did not involve agents or other persons associated with the government of the United States.

There is no credible evidence, none whatsoever to support your theory. You tout a YOUTUBE video as proof of explosions in a so called controlled demolition…yet provide no explanation why they would place explosives in the upper floors of a building they were trying to destroy and make it look as if it fell on it’s own. It makes absolutely NO SENSE to contend that these people were so smart as to have pulled this off..but ..whoops, they forgot to put the explosives in the right place??

Good grief man, do you ever read what you write??

Ok everyone, Ewing, Phil, Lorraine, Dan, NZtruth, stop what you are doing and go out and get “25 years” experience in the building industry. Right, meet me back here in 25 years… oh but wait, by then Trolls shadow will have 50 years experience in the industry.
Dang, there goes that plan.

Hes a stooge, paid or unpaid it does not matter, read over his posts he just keeps saying the same things over and over and over again. Lumping in UFOs and roswell, who even mentioned that? You did Shadz.

I’m NOT an engineer, as you claim to be (no proof cited as yet) But I still see that the facts don’t add up.

So again, the answer to this problem is TO HAVE A REAL INVESTIGATION. Not a pretend one, like the 911 commission.
Make Bush, emperor Ming (thats dick), Rummy etc testify, UNDER OATH, not that that means anything to those lying sacks of crap. And then after a fair open trial have them put to death. Simple.

Shadow I love the way just casually skim over centuries of hegemony, awe inspiring stuff. “yea we murdered hundreds of thousands – millions of, NA Indians, Koreans, Vietnamese, Iraqis and Afghans, wanna make something of it?”

“age old adage” something about chickens, something about roosting. That only applies if you believe the official fairy story.

BTW you have a real (shadow) government and a pretend government.

I’m glad we can so effectively push your buttons shadow, poor old man might burst a blood vessel in his brain, ouchie.

SO I’m out, you can call me a nimrod (11 instances on this page, most from you) or a “stupid f#cker” as much as you like. Stooge.
This is a conspiracy related website shadow, complaining about conspiracies of CT website is a bit like moving into the city and complaining about the noise.

P.S. You Nimrod

Ewing, you are a fucking nutcase.

You link to a conspiracy nut trying to defend yet another conspiracy nut that just so happened to be put in a position of power by the very government you say is responsible for the fucking conspiracy….Boy dude you are really making a fool of yourself

How on earth can these people be so sloppy in their security that they would allow a truther ( Van Jones ) such close access to the halls of power where this supposed conspiracy took place? Why do they allow people like you to live if you people “Know the truth”?? Not very good security I would contend…Yet at the same time be so thorough as to remove all but the most minute trace of evidence of their dastardly deeds on 9/11…and even more amazing…manage to keep thousands of coconspiritors quiet all these years.

The two contentions are mutually exclusive and yet you believe in both. They can’t both be true and yet you contend , through your words and actions that they are in fact both true.

This link

http://uncensored.co.nz/2009/09/12/kevin-barrett-on-russian-television -talks-911/

Is exactly the insanity I keep referring to when I tell you that quoting conspiracy sites to prove a conspiracy does not prove the conspiracy. You link to this site to prove something said on this site?? Dear god man, get help ..QUICKLY

You asked for my professional opinion as to what explained those window blowouts in that video. I gave you my professional opinion and in fact it is in fact exactly as I described. Compressed air can do some pretty brutal things when it builds up to sufficient pressure. In a building collapsing, that pressure is achieved through collapsing floors. That plus the fact that you do NOT place explosives in the upper floors negates the contention of preplaced explosives and a controlled demolition.

Your response was to claim I copied something from Popular Mechanics, then linked to the video again…but this time “With Comments” ooooh that’s a great counterpoint there skippy quoting what others say as your own words, then to drive home your “point” you link to another page on this site which turns out to be an interview of a 9/11 truther lamenting the fact that Van Jones ( the aforementioned truther that was given a position of power in the same government supposedly involved in the cover up) didn’t go far enough as PROOF of the conspiracy.

That is only proof of one conspiracy nut defending another conspiracy nut and being quoted on a website by a third conspiracy nut.

You have yet to explain , in YOUR scenario why they would need to put explosives on the upper floors of a building they are trying to secretly demolish.

Can you even answer that simple question about YOUR theory Ewing?? Or are there no notes on things like that for you to refer to??

[CONCERNING 9:11 The following is an e-mail from a learned elderly acquaintance of mine who worked on the twin towers for six months 39 years ago for the Otis Elevator Company]

This email focuses on the testimony of ten individuals, professional and military, who either question the government report, or else say it was outright impossible. The below is Fred’s introduction, and is the only thing that I could copy and paste here. The rest you will have to click on the links at the bottom, The other series of links, I’m sure will present a much longer list of professionals, the testimony of whom states in common that the government’s version is pure whitewash.

I conclude my remarks regarding Sept 11. Only yesterday I read an editorial in our local Waterville, ME paper that basically said that we should more or less forgive and forget and move on. Whether it was the statement of Pres. Obama or former V-P Cheney I don’t know, but I would have you remember that this was mass murder, and there is no statute of limitations on murder. PLEASE think well before you dismiss these things.

P.S. This is not sent to engender rage or fear, but rather wisdom, and to encourage all who wish to be informed to subscribe to Fred’s ongoing website, http://www.WantToKnow.info.

*******************************

Was there a 9/11 conspiracy? The US government claims 19 terrorists conspired to hijack four planes and attack key US targets on Sept. 11, 2001. Thus, the official government story is a 9/11 conspiracy involving foreign terrorists. Yet many respected, senior members of the US military, intelligence, and other branches of government have talked publicly about another kind of 9/11 conspiracy.

The conspiracy they discuss involves rogue elements of the US government. Below are the revealing public statements on this vital topic of 10 prominent public servants with links for verification and further investigation. Among these officials are a US Senator and 9/11 Commission member, a chief of the CIA, an army general, the father of Reaganomics, the vice chairman of the Homeland Security Committee of the U.S. House of Representatives, and more.

The collective voices of these respected officials along with 50 other top officials, over 100 esteemed professors, over 200 pilots and aviation professionals, and hundreds of architects and engineers [Links Below] give credibility to questions of government involvement in a 9/11 conspiracy. These dedicated individuals from across the political spectrum are not irresponsible believers in some wacky 9/11 conspiracy theory. Their sincere concern, backed by decades of service to their country, demonstrate that criticism of the official 9/11 story is not only reasonable and responsible, it is in fact a patriotic duty.

http://www.wanttoknow.info/officialsquestion911commissionreport

http://www.examiner.com/x-6495-US-Intelligence-Examiner~y2009m9d2-911-Commission-Report-questioned-by-100-professors

http://patriotsquestion911.com/pilots.html

http://www.ae911truth.org/

Respectfully submitted, Bruce

Lombeer, I am not linking them together you simpleton.

I am comparing them in terms of their lunacy in relation to your own personal cherished conspiracy theory of 9/11 being an inside job.

Those conspiracy theories follow the same exact model yours follows. People that believe those conspiracy theories use the same “logic” you and your buddies are using to “prove” your theory.

Do you believe that an alien spaceship crashed in Roswell New Mexico in 1947?? Yes or no

If no, why not? Is this conspiracy theory even too much for you to handle?? If it’s too much for even you to handle, in what way does it not sit well with your view of the world?

Do you understand what critical thinking is all about Lombeer? Do you understand what it truly means to question and examine a subject?

See, you and others like you constantly open the door in your face trying to “get me”

I have never, not once claimed to be an engineer. I have not even implied I was an engineer. You are LYING when you make that claim about me. I very clearly stated that I have worked in the construction industry for 25 years and am involved in the construction of high rises and other structures. I have stated that I have worked on core structures and shell structures in high rises and described how they go together. I have also talked about various other structures I have been involved with and my knowledge of loads. You do not need to be an engineer to understand loads and how to support them and conversely…use them to your advantage when trying to take down a structure.

So at least be honest about what I’ve said…If you are capable of such an action Lombeer…otherwise you lose any and all credibility.

And as if to drive home my point you launch into some unhinged tirade about killing millions of people and shadow governments etc etc….Yet at the beginning of your post you lament the fact I’m somehow trying to link Roswell, 9/11, and Pearl Harbor…You apparently accept some conspiracy theories, but not others?? So this shadow government only sometimes conspires to defraud the world? Or is there some other shadow shadow government that is involved in the other conspiracies?? You’re not quite clear on that one Lombeer.

Care to lie about me again?? or can perhaps you bail out Ewing and answer the question of why a supposed all powerful shadow government would place explosives in the upper floors of a building they are trying to secretly demolish with explosives so as to make it appear as if it fell down on its own?? Forget the fact that any explosives expert will tell you that you don’t put explosives in the upper floors of a building you are trying to bring down. …… Just answer the question as to why this all powerful shadow government would place explosives anywhere where they could be filmed going off , thus…Blowing their cover.

It’s your theory Lombeer, defend it….If you can.

Bruce, you link to hundreds of people in various professions.

There are hundreds of thousands of people in those professions that do not agree with you.

I am one of those hundreds of thousands of experts in our fields that flatly disagree with the contentions of these mere hundreds and in your own words..dozens of truthers.

the people expressing “concerns” equals in the vicinity of .001% of the total number of scientists , engineers, construction personnel, pilots , etc etc…

.001% , that is an infinitesimal amount and hardly worthy of such immense scrutiny. Their questions have been out there for 8 years now, it’s not like their message is being suppressed or otherwise denied access to the masses. The sad truth is that the message is being summarily rejected by the rest of the scientific and professional community. We have science and physics and time tested engineering principles on our side.

The truther side has several disparate facts that they try to string together to form a narrative of shadow governments and Men in Black lurking round every corner and capable of amazing actions…yet supposedly let people that “know the truth” walk around freely and say whatever they want… You’d think if they were so all powerful , they’d make those people go away by now…but yall are still here, spouting away all their secrets…

Conspiracy theories never stand up to scrutiny.

Lombeer and Ewing still can’t explain how the people they claim conspired to pull off 9/11 would forget where to place the explosives needed to make WTC7 look like a normal collapse. I’m not the one that came up with the theory of controlled demolitions…THEY did. It is their theory and yet they can’t even explain that glaring inconsistency , yet expect people to “just believe them “

Yes Troll, these truthers never look past the headline. and ask the critical questions necessary to come to a complete and full conclusion about an incident. That is what true research is all about, they fail to grasp this simple truth.

Conspiracy theories feed on this lack of critical questioning.

One last thing, if we are paid government disinformation agents…I don’t know about you …but these guys owe me a shitload of money…Because I have yet to see one paycheck to date.

“You have yet to explain , in YOUR scenario why they would need to put explosives on the upper floors of a building they are trying to secretly demolish”

Most likely cutter charges, to create the plane shaped impact hole of a Boeing 767.

“No conspiracy theory can be completely proven, hence the appeal of conspiracy theories”- Shadow

Ringworm Children
Gulf of Tonkin

$1000
No games Shadow- put up or get the fuck outta here before I get your co-ordinates from google earth

Nice Winston, very astute.

Nz you are citing conspiracy theories as prove that they’ve been proven to be a conspiracy?

I read your link about the radiation children…great story…pretty thin on proof of a conspiracy. It really is a shame they died, but hardly proof of a conspiracy to kill Jewish children.

and you bring up the Gulf of Tonkin??

That wasn’t a conspiracy…they simply lied about the circumstances. They didn’t conspire to fabricate the entire thing, they didn’t fake the attack…the attack actually happened…they just left out a few facts…like we were in North Vietnamese waters at the time, snooping. We suckered them into attacking us then cried foul on the international stage. Governments do that stuff all the time..that doesn’t make it a conspiracy…or conspiratorial in the sense you mean.

Oh and nz….please you go right ahead and “get my coordinates” …dude you need help. You won’t leave your mom’s basement let alone do anything with any “coordinates” you think you found.

stop falling for more and more conspiracy theories and go OUTSIDE…experience a little more of life…you might learn a few things.

If your “facts” could stand up to scrutiny you wouldn’t be trying so hard to scare me off or buy me out.

You’re a rookie kid, all you are doing is engaging in empty threats on the internet.

you know what they say…Threatening people on the internet is like cheating in Special Olympics…either way, you’re a retard.

Empty threats, why dont you name yourself coward? Why dont you meet us in Auckland, we’ll see who’s empty!
Nothing worse than a retard who thinks he’s smart, straight out of Idiocracy.
You use government/ gov theory sites to prove your establishment theory, so why can’t we do the opposite? Have you ever watched 9/11 the road to tyranny? Do you notice 85% of the links are MAINSTREAM SOURCED?!

As for the Jew Kids, do you think irradiating 100,000 people with 7 machines at levels 35,000 times higher than recommended is accidental? How is that not a conspiracy? The told the parents a cover story and the governments jointly planned this in secret obviously. FUCKING RETARD!!

The best argument for killing fucks like you is the innocent lives that would be saved onced ther were no fucks living in denial! If it wasn’t for people like you, those kids would have been unharmed, and for the millions of others your ignorance kills … please die shadow

More empty threats Nz??

So Nz_truth is YOUR real name??

Weird, who knew.

You are the one threatening people while claiming superior intelligence nz, not me.

I have not used one government site to support my claims. I have used my own personal knowledge. YOU guys keep linking to this site, ae911.org sites, 9/11truther.org sites etc etc…THOSE are by definition Conspiracy sites since they talk about nothing but….the 9/11 conspiracy.

None of those links you provide are mainstream…to people like you yes they are mainstream because that is all you read so of course you believe they are mainstream nz. The problem for you and yours is that these sites represent a fraction of the information available out there on the internet.

There is once again no PROOF these kids were given lethal amounts of radiation on PURPOSE…that would be necessary to have a conspiracy. Incompetence, perhaps, ignorance of the nature of their disease quite possible…but a systematic attempt to irradiate ( now 100,000, before it was only 6,000 ) Jewish kids is ludicrous.

You claim the government planned this in secrecy …yet provide no evidence..only hearsay and half truths..but no smoking gun. There is no proof of your conspiracy, just more implications of this or that agency , a couple factoids here and there..but that’s it. You have no coherent explanation for what happened to these children …other than they did receive lethal doses of radiation and they came from machines the Israelis purchased from the states….You still can’t explain why the Jews would be actively trying to kill their own children…but that’s ok, you don’t think that far ahead do you nz ( if that’s your REAL name lol ) Remember I’m supposedly a government agent, you people keep telling me that is what I am…so why bother hiding who you are nz?? You know we government agents and Men in Black know all and can find anyone we deem a threat…so why hide?

And then to “prove” the superiority of your arguments , you once again threaten my life on the internet. LOL

Hey kid, can you explain how a support column can suddenly carry 4times the load it was designed to carry or more and NOT fail?

Can you explain why this shadow government that is so good that they can hide just enough evidence so as to prevent you from ultimately proving your conspiracy…is simultaneously so inept that they place explosives in the upper floors of the WTC7 towers where everyone can see them go off??

You guys claim the WTC7 was brought down by a controlled explosion , disguised to look like a normal building collapse….so why put explosives in the wrong spot nz??

Can you answer that question nz??

This is your theory nz, not mine.

Why did they place explosives in the upper floors of a building they are SECRETLY trying to bring down? Forget the fact that explosives used to bring down a building are typically placed at the BOTTOM of the building…you know..where all the loading from the upper floors actually is.

Please, feel free to explain that part of your theory nz.

Remember, threatening people on the Internet is like cheating in the Special Olympics….either way, you’re still a retard

“but the same government you claim perpetrated this conspiracy so well that not one person involved has come forward after 8 years…is the same government that can’t run the Post Office , can’t run Medicare, can’t run Amtrak ( the trains in this country ) , can’t run the VA ( the Veteran’s Administration for our military ) etc etc.”

Gary’s shadow… this is the same line of malarkey coming from the neoconservatives in talk radio. Imposters like Limbaugh, Hannity, and the rest.

Talk about “red herrings”!

And you trolls are the ones who use straw man arguments; as I reminded “alex search” just before he retreated to his lair or crevice.

Your trying to paint a picture of the US government, as too incompetent to pull off something like 9/11 was passed off on the public by those shills in talk radio. The same stooges that keep breathing life into the “two-party” system myth. There is only one major political party in America: the Council on Foreign Relations / Skull and Bones Party. Most every “top-tier” candidate is a member of one of those two societies. There is nothing you can do to change that fact. The fix is in, and the American people are being screwed by puppets in politics and frauds in neocon talk radio that promote the image of “our bumbling government,” while they ignore the obvious falsehoods that have been weaved into the acceptable (official) 9/11 tale: where 19 Arab hijackers (many of them ill-equipped to fly those planes) were able to accomplish the amazing feat of transforming tons of concrete to fine powder.

And none of us who post here (to my knowledge) have ever claimed that most, if not all, of the government was in on what happened. It only takes a relatively small number in key places to pull it off.

We rightly used the term useful idiot to describe you, and you try unsuccessfully to pin the label to me. You are the stooge promoting the government fiction, not me.

Your claim of being in building construction for 25 years doesn’t intimidate me in the least: as you pompously present yourself to us as someone none of us can handle because of your “experience.”

The structural engineers that you try to say are insignificant because of their number, have come out in public taking a brave stand for the truth using their real names, CLOWN… where is yours?

You no credibility bag of wind.

Oh and one more thing nz…I thought you said I’d better watch out or you’d “get my coordinates” from Google Earth

ROFLMAO…that was a great laugh dude, thanks for that one.

But I digress….if you can Google my coordinates then you must know who I am, so why bother asking who I am??

Oh that’s right, Google Earth doesn’t actually give you coordinates of people, it’s not like on the Enterprise where they have tricorders and cool alien technology…Google Earth is a cool little app that lets you check out the earth through satellite pictures…it’s not a government tracking device.

Still Googling me nz??

Phillip,

A government that can’t run something as mundane as a Post Office without losing billions of dollars a year. A government that can’t hide when it fucks up and gets WMD claims wrong ( despite having plenty of time and resources while in Iraq to plant evidence ) is not a government capable of pulling off something as immense as 9/11 without SOMEONE by now spilling the beans.

It has nothing to do with talk radio, it has to do with common sense.

I live in the States, I don’t need talk radio to tell me what I experience every day of my life in this country. This government IS incompetent on so many fronts that there is no way in hell they could pull this off and no one talks. There are groups in this country that HATE Republicans for instance and would and did do everything they could to dig up dirt on them to bring down the previous administration…yet NOTHING about a smoking gun or ANY indication from any of those groups about 9/11 being an inside job.

The statistical probability of the government ( THIS government ) being able to pull off 9/11 without anyone finding out is so infinitesimal that is takes a conspiracy nut to “connect the dots”

It doesn’t have to be most or all of the government..but it does have to be thousands of people from all walks of life to pull something like this off and keep it a secret.

It takes approximately 21 people to plan and train to fly airplanes into buildings and make videos praising allah and admitting to it though.

There is no logical way for you to explain how all of these people supposedly involved in the murder of their fellow citizens have been made to stay quiet. There would have to be too many of them involved to keep ALL Of them quiet.

Wait a minute here, you are citing yet another conspiracy theory i.e. a secret shadow government…to prove 9/11 was a conspiracy?? LOL wow man you are truly out of touch with reality aren’t ya. You cite no facts for this shadow government, yet claim it as such? Have you heard of the word FAITH by any chance?? Are you familiar with its meaning by any chance?

Can YOU explain why this all powerful shadow government would place explosives in the upper floors of a building they are trying to secretly demolish?? We’ll just assume ( since you claim such intelligence ) that you already know that explosives MUST go at the bottom of the structure to be demolished…NOT at the top because you of course know about the G word….you know…Gravity and how it works in a DOWNWARD force and not an upwards force. So it would be pretty stupid of them to put explosives in the top of a building while trying to bring it down. So , in your own words , why did they place explosives in the upper floors of WTC7 if they were trying to make it a secret??

Phil , you are a useful idiot because all you do is parrot what you hear.

You can’t debate the facts without engaging in ad hominem attacks against me.

I’m asking you to explain YOUR OWN THEORY and you can’t even do that.

I’m asking you to explain ONE tiny part of your theory and NONE of you people have even attempted to explain the glaring discrepancy between what you claim to be the case, and what is actually required to bring down a building…..and you say IM the useful idiot?

Then hey dude, here’s your chance..explain that part of your theory

808 engineers vs 699,192 …while those 808 are entitled to their opinions, their opinions do not stand up to scrutiny by their peers by a factor of .001% to 99.999%…why on earth should any of them be given credence when hundreds of thousands of their peers disagree and have the facts to prove it? All of these other engineers can’t all be on the government payroll. There is no way this shadow government you claim exists could have gotten to all of them.

When you start to seriously examine conspiracy theories they fall apart.

So, explain your theory of a controlled demolition ( done in secret ) yet the explosives were placed in the wrong place where everyone could see them.

It’s your theory, not mine Philip.

Explain how they pulled that off

The “two-party” myth is exposed by the work of author and lecturer Webster Tarpley. He also exposes the lies of September 11th, and the “War on Terror.”

I am not able to watch this video at this time; but submit it for those who would be interested in viewing it.

Mr. Tarpley’s view of politics differs from my own (in at least some areas) but his lectures on 9/11 should not be missed. Always some gems to glean.

Webster Tarpley… with Jim Fetzer. April 2nd 2008

http://www.gcnlive.com Discussing Barack Obama, Zbigniew Brzezinski, Iran, Russia, China, Tibet, Reverend Wright, Ford Foundation, Trilateral Commission, Jimmy Carter, Liberation Theology etc.

http://tinyurl.com/la66yb
___________________________________

The “change” that took place after the 2008 “election”…

Barack H. Obama – The Unauthorized Biography – by Webster Griffin Tarpley

Written by the author of the legendary 1992 expose of Bush the elder, this book works from a New Deal point of view. Obama is exposed as a foundation operative and agent of Wall Street finance capital, controlled by Zbigniew Brzezinski, George Soros, and Goldman Sachs.

Obama’s mother was an official of the Ford Foundation, the World Bank, and US AID. By all indications, Obama was identified for future political use by Brzezinski at Columbia in 1981-1983, during Obama’s secret lost years.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0930852915/

http://www.mininova.org/tor/1985378
___________________________________

Mysteries Part 1: Demolitions http://tinyurl.com/pj3q95

Loose Change 2nd Edition http://tinyurl.com/n684b7

These videos make it very clear that the official 9/11 story is a fabrication. The real “conspiracy theory.”

The controlled demolitions of the buildings could not be more obvious.

And you don’t need “25 years experience in constructing buildings” to see it.

_____________________________________________________________

“You cite no facts for this shadow government, yet claim it as such?” [5:41 am]

Not true. You need to watch some of Mr. Tarpley’s videos online and you will see how foolish your statement above really is. The evidence is all around you. The frauds in necon talk radio are largely responsible for the rampant cluelessness among so many “conservatives.” The liberals have their own globalist shills keeping them in a fog.

I downloaded your post at 5:41 am and will read the rest of it; but my time on the computer is up.

Check the information that Bruce mentioned. If you really are interested in the truth; the material that he included in his post is worth looking into.

The videos and DVDs that I mentioned previously present the truth about what happened on September 11th, 2001.

So Philip, you still can’t explain your own theory??

Why did they place explosives in the upper floors of WTC7 if they were trying to bring it down through controlled demolition AND trying to keep it a secret from all of us??

All you do is post links to conspiracy sites talking about shadow governments.

That is not proof of a conspiracy Philip.

Can you or can you not defend your own theory?? Yes or no.

Answer the question. Why place explosives in the upper floors of a building you are secretly trying to demolish?

If you can answer that question, then follow up with why they would place explosives in the upper floors of a building in the first place. That is not where you would place explosives if you wanted to bring down a building.

So, two questions that none of you people can answer about your own theory….yet we are just supposed to believe you when you say you “know the truth”??

Have fun avoiding this question Philip.

I see, I reread some of your last post there Philip…and I noticed a very important point you made…whether you did it on purpose is up for debate..but I digress.

You implied a conspiracy just for conservatives and a wholly separate conspiracy for liberals…all perpetrated by their very own disinformation goons.

So would the conspiracy that was involved in 9/11 be a completely separate conspiracy or is that conspiracy somehow tied in with the two separate liberal and conservative conspiracies?

Please advise on which conspiracy you are referring to so we at home can keep track since you’ve long since gone off the Schedule of Events we were all handed at the beginning of this little conversation.

Thanks in advance

Crickets……

No explanation of their own theory as to WTC7.

I guess it’s going to be yet another “unsolved mystery” in this conspiracy theory of theirs.

You people should try religion…it too is based on faith with scant hard evidence to support their beliefs…However, the bonus for believers in a religion is you get peace of mind knowing there actually is a higher authority to whom you can plead your case…and this higher authority was even kind enough to write down the way he/she/it wants you to behave in order to get into the cool kids club.

At least you get something positive out of religion as opposed to believing some unprovable theory about shadow governments and nefarious MiB sneaking around causing all the trouble in the world.

Nah, it couldn’t be something as mundane as human nature and an entire history of humans doing bad things to other humans simply because some dude , or god or gods told them it was a good idea…nahhhhh, it HAS to be some conspiracy of the few to control the many…

They say ignorance is bliss….These truthers must be in nirvana right about now.

Unless one of you wishes to step up and explain the discrepancies in the WTC7 theory…for starters. We’ll move on to harder questions if you can answer this one.

Phil, you said your time on the computer is up…did mom tell you to go do your chores again??

I can tell the shadow is deeply troubled by people like me who ask for an new investigation of 911. Deeply troubled. And shadz, since you ‘know’ the official story of 911 is totally 100% correct in every aspect it seems strange to me that [A] you can’t make the very simple connection between US foreign policy and why you country is a terror target.
[B] Why you wouldn’t want a new invention of 911.
If only to validate what you “know” think of the bragging rights, you could really go to town on us then.
And yes your technique is to call us nutcases and nimrods and truthers, And try to make us look like we are all one big homogenous blob of crazy, who gives a toss about roswell in 1947 or lizard people or whaever OTMF, to discredit us (especially when we mention that your country needs a new investigation of 911)
shall I type it in capital letters shadow? or would that finally burst that throbbing blood vessel in your angry, devious, old, roughneck brain?

NEW OPEN INVESTIGATION OF 911.

POP!

I don’t think its an unreasonable request.

Shads, if we are ‘truthers’ what are you?

Lombeer, dude…you’re lying still.

I’ve not once cited or tried to defend or denigrate “the official story”

I have consistently stated that in my professional opinion based on 25+years in the construction industry.

Furthermore I have consistently stated that there are over 699,000 engineers alone that also support my contentions.

I don’t give a fuck what “the official story” is or isn’t. You have not been paying attention skippy. I don’t trust my government either…but that doesn’t mean I think they are capable of pulling off something like this. It simply is beyond their capabilities to keep it quiet this long…far too many people would have had to have been involved for this to go off without a hitch…eventually someone would have talked by now. Especially with all you truthers digging away for “the truth” for all these years.

There is nothing there to support your theory.

As far as why the terrorists are out to kill us..that has yet to be a point of contention in this thread..until just now when you brought it up. But sure, let’s go there. In their eyes we as Westerners are the Crusaders of old. They call us that on a daily basis…or Infidel , the terms are interchangeable in their eyes. They believe our presence in Saudi Arabia during and after the First Gulf War was tantamount to blasphemy for the infidels to be so close to holy ground. Obama himself very clearly stated that as one of the motivations for his attacks on us and our interests around the world….Shall I go on Lombeer?? or do you have yet another conspiracy that explains Al Qeda’s reasons for wanting to attack the Great Satan..>Hell, that alone is enough reason for them. We are infidels and in their extreme view of Islam we are all marked for death if we do not submit to Allah…You guys too..don’t think yall are safe just because you live in NZ…you are an infidel in their eyes and marked for death.

But I’ve quite clearly answered your question about their motivations for attacking us as based on their Own words and admissions..freely given over the last 8 years by Osama and his various Lt. and Capt.

Whoops, thought I didn’t know that information didn’t ya?? You thought I don’t really pay attention to what our enemies say and do and their stated reasons for doing it….and yes they are OUR enemies whether you’d care to admit it or not. That’s not my guess, that is what they have said, and what they have done to back up their words.

Lombeer

For the umpteenth time..can YOU or any of you people explain WHY this shadow government/shadow force that was responsible for preplacing the explosives in WTC7 , put them in the wrong place to accomplish the mission??

That is YOUR THEORY, not something I made up Lombeer. Can you or can you not explain how this part was accomplished and why?? You can’t even properly defend your own theory, how do you expect any rational person to believe your theory is correct??

So Lombeer,

There are conspiracy theories even YOU don’t believe??

Why don’t you believe the Roswell story?

That too is supposedly an offshoot of this shadow government and it’s ability to hide the truth.

What about that conspiracy theory is too much for even you to accept?

I know a lot about this conspiracy too Lombeer. So feel free to explain why you don’t believe this conspiracy theory , but you believe the 9/11 conspiracy theory.

I eagerly await this response…it promises to be rather entertaining.

Shadow this is proof you are retarded and don’t know how to follow links!

My name is hotlinked and leads to my youtube acount with my real name you fucking monkey!

As for the Jew kids there is no way on Earth that could be accidental, and if you bothered to read the mainstream Israeli article you would realise 6,000 died soon after but 100,000 were involved! So stop lieing shadow!

This really shows what a poor investigator you are and why you can’t work out 9/11, obviously not a spook. Using business directories and people finder’s one can reveal an amazing amount of info, and yes I could get your co-ordinates or anything other details- just give your name like I have mine- or are you full of empty allegations?

I see, so you still can’t answer the question about your 9/11 conspiracy theory either?

Why did they place explosives in the upper floors of WTC7 if they were trying to bring down the building and do it in secret?

Can you even answer that simple question about your theory??

Or are you just going to threaten me again lol.

Oh I see, you could get my name and where I live….if ONLY I’d give you my name and where I live??

Seriously man, you are unhinged and need help…Clare might just be a little off…but you , are certifiably nuts.

That little punk kid is you??

yeah kid, get help…or try to support your theory.

Why did “They” place explosives in the wrong part of WTC7?? That’s not where you put them if you are trying to bring down a building nz.

So, in your “professional” opinion..since you have access to such things as Youtube and 9/11truth.org…why did they place the explosives in the wrong spot nz??

You can’t answer that can you?? Otherwise you, or one of your fellow truthers would have tried to explain it by now.

So try again kid, why did they place the explosives in the wrong spot??

It could very well be an accident, or incompetence etc..there are many logical reasons why this “happened” yet I have read your “mainstream” Israeli articles ..and it’s rather funny but they are devoid of much evidence too….just an Israeli conspiracy site.

There is no logical reason for the U.S. or the Israelis to want to kill Israeli children.

So do you believe in Roswell too nz?? or is that a conspiracy that goes too far for even you to believe?

Ok, how about this question about another aspect of your conspiracy theory.

How did the people that planted the explosives in WTC 1 and 2 hide all the wires and Detonation cord necessary for the explosions to be triggered in the first place?

Not to mention all the debris they would have had to get rid of..since , in order for the explosives to properly do their job they must be in physical contact with the steel…and since columns are typically covered in a fire proof material called Kaffkote or Monocote AND then covered in some form of a framed wall or column to cover that stuff ( since it is very dusty material ) and make the columns aesthetically appealing. All of that material would have to be removed prior to attaching the explosives to the columns. Then those explosives need to be wired together so they can be fired off in exact order…otherwise the building could fall in a direction not intended…the list goes on and on for the amount of things required in order to demolish a building of that size with explosives…there would have been evidence prior to the day of the attack. You simply can’t hide that much work without someone noticing it.

so, how did “They” accomplish that part of your conspiracy theory?

Anyone?

And don’t say Elevator Repair crews…

I’ve looked at the blueprints and at best there are exactly SIX columns even close to being accessible from an elevator shaft.

Those are not enough to bring down the building.

So, please, feel free to explain how THEY accomplished this part of the conspiracy.

“Why did “They” place explosives in the wrong part of WTC7?? That’s not where you put them if you are trying to bring down a building ”

Ooops in my earlier post I thought you referring to WTC1&2.

Shadow, what makes you think the explosives were placed in the wrong place, for it to be a Con. Dem.
If this was the case the video is either a fake, or the building was ‘pulled’ using a technology known to only a few.

How did WTC 7 a 40+ story building collapse into it’s own footprint at free fall speed without detonation devices being used?

Seeing you are so experienced in the construction industry you probably realise this isn’t possible without the masses of steel and concrete on the floors below being obliterated on the way down, so there is no resistance to slow the building down.

If the WTC tower was infact a gravational collapse like you claim why weren’t there 100+ stories piled up at the bottom
rather than everything being blasted to dust?

What makes me think they were placed in the wrong place is the fact that you do not place explosives in the upper floors of a building you are trying to demolish.

There is no need, when done correctly , gravity does most of the work. For that to happen, the columns and structural supports at the BOTTOM of the building are cut with the explosives. But not in a haphazard way, they are cut in a very specific order so as to control the way the building falls. This requires a lot of wires and electronics to pull off effectively…You can’t just hide all of those things without someone noticing.

Exploding structural supports on the top floors is counterproductive and defeats the purpose of trying to keep the demolition a secret…since that is the contention of the truthers.

Not much of a secret if you put the bombs up high where everyone with a camera can see them go off now is it?

When you start to examine each aspect of the conspiracy , the whole thing begins to unravel.

Explosives in the wrong parts of buildings is only one of many inconsistencies in this 9/11 conspiracy theory.

As far as “explosives” in WTC 1 and 2, there were none there either. Those blowouts that are shown on the video as the building collapses are caused by compression of the air inside the building as the floors collapse upon themselves.

Look at other buildings being brought down by explosives…there are dozens upon dozens of examples on the internet. You will see little puffs and blow outs up high during the demolition. They are caused by air pressure blowing out windows as the building collapses.

Why would it be any different in the WTC 1 and 2 towers?

These are critical questions that need to be asked when a contention is made that some nondescript event on a video is said to be caused by preplaced explosives.

1, are there potential other causes of these blowouts and are there examples that can be compared

2, If these are explosions, how did they get placed, by whom, and how was it kept a secret from so many people..since to place the amount of explosives needed to accomplish what is claimed…would have taken a lot of tearing up of floors etc so as to place them in proper locations.

3, Why, if your goal is to keep the demolition a secret, place the explosives in such a location as to cause visual evidence to manifest itself in so many ways that there are dozens of views of these “explosions” available around the internet at the click of a mouse?

One would think that if this shadow government was as good as claimed, they wouldn’t make these rookie mistakes.

And yet this conspiracy is riddled with rookie mistakes…yet somehow they pulled it off and haven’t been caught yet…

Shadow- you are correct there is no logical reason to kill Jewish children- but who said logic had to be a motivation?
Assumptions you idiot!
Every action has an equal and opposite reaction, and judging by the way building 7 fell I would say they placed the explosives perfectly! No mistakes there either.
Your argument is like trying to ask someone who was aquitted of murder, explain how the murder happened, all they could PROVE to you is that it was not them! Similarly all we can really prove to you is that it wasn’t 19 Arab fools. Since they cannot stand down NORAD, or wire wtc 7, or fly boeing aircraft in that fashion, or loose passports into fireballs only to be found by the fbi etc.

So shadow your take on this is, the buildings could not have collapsed by conventional CD, because you do not see the visual evidence of this.
So therefore they must have collapsed from the impact of the planes,& in WTC7’s case shrapnel from collapsing 1&2.

Given the way that the buildings fell in only a few seconds the later scenario is even less likely.
So the only alternative is the use of a technology known only to a select few.
Of which it would be imperative for it to remain secret, so it can be used again.
Did you read the earlier posts by Andrew Johnson and Steve Collier.

It is their theory I am asking them to explain.

They are the ones that claim such and such a video shows PROOF of a controlled demolition…yet cite no proof of how it was put in place to begin with, let alone explain why it was placed in the wrong location to cause a collapse.

Your alternative scenario is a secret weapon?? Are you serious? or just being facetious??

I have explained how the buildings collapsed. It is not some big secret, it is common physics..nothing more sinister than that.

No secret weapons, no government conspiracy, nothing more exciting than heat, load, damage, gravity and time.

Nz,

How were the explosives placed without anyone noticing?

Why were they placed in the wrong location to bring down the building?

Why were they placed in such a location as to make them visible to anyone with a camera?

This is part of YOUR conspiracy theory..can you at least explain how any of that was done or why?

Can you explain your own conspiracy theory nz??

So let’s see

I don’t need to prove it was 19 Arab hijackers. They are on tape praising Allah for allowing them to go on this mission. All suicide bombers/attackers make these videos…it’s not unusual at all. Plus Osama himself has been on video several times admitting to being the man with the plan…along with Khalid Sheik Muhammed , the brains of the outfit which has given us very detailed information about how they managed to pull this off. Remember, Osama comes from one of the richest families in Saudi Arabia..he had access to the cash to pull this off.

The claim of NORAD being stood down has long since been proven to be a lie. NORAD is always on alert, 24/7/365. They are never stood down.

You are the ones making the claim they wired WTC7 , but still can’t explain how they pulled it off without anyone noticing all those wires and high explosives strapped to the columns. You’re going to need to provide a lot more evidence than a couple Youtube videos to support the claim of prepositioned explosives in WTC7 OR the Twin Towers.

The only fashion they had to fly the Boeing aircraft was straight into the buildings…oh they might have had to turn a little bit to line up with the towers..but other than that they didn’t have to know much. They didn’t have to know how to land, take off or anything of the sort. They had to know how to fly a plane in a straight line and make turns…oh and how to shut off the Transponder so as to mask themselves from Air Traffic Control..That’s it…easily within the skill level of most anyone…even a terrorist with the proper training…which ..it just so happens they received here in the states ( but of course THEY put that story out there to throw you guys off the scent right? )

And finally , the oft recycled but completely false claim that Muhammed Atta’s passport was found in the wreckage. Sorry, that one is also false…

Shadow, how do you explain the top down mushrooming dustification of the collapsing Twin Towers.

This doesn’t equate to your theory of a pancake gravity collapse, because the pile of rubble would have been far greater/ higher. Also the collapse time frame would have taken much longer.

My alternative theory of the use of an unexplained technology, is the only theory that fits thus far.
Or a secret weapon as you prefer to call it.
PS, do you believe every thing you see on TV, then go and find the science that fits your logistical analysis, or do you start with analysing the science first, before reaching a conclusion.

(1) It is better to be divided by
TRUTH than united by error.(Speaking the hard facts about the depraved nature of humans and human government as manifested in the mass cover-ups of 9:11 and history of corruption overall guarantees much division)
(2) It is better to speak the TRUTH that hurts and then heals than
a lie that comforts and then kills. (Certainly the deep, raw truth does wound; such as the many web sites exposing the now obvious wickedness of powers, principalities and rulers in high places; but its equally certain that knowing the hard truth will ultimately heal- we’re all looking for healing, I’m sure!
(3) It is better to hear tough or even
rough TRUTH than tender or
polished lies. (I can’t necessarily fault people for wanting to quickly finalize a matter like 9:11 so that they can comfortably wrap their minds around it and rush to the punishment stage. But before we allow ourselves to be manipulated into hasty action by well polished lies we should let the unbiased Sherlock Holmeses help with the data, as I
believe they already have. Sadly, we have raced hastly to the destruction of so many lives. Has there been any polished lies involved here?)
(4) It is better to be hated for
telling the TRUTH than loved
for telling a lie. (Philip seems to be hated, to some extent at least, for bringing up some sound web links which get to the heart of the matter. It’s the perfect love, that which is based in Truth, which casts out all fear. Don’t fear. Love the truth.)
(5) It is better to stand alone for
the TRUTH than stand with a
crowd in a lie..[most of the corporatized, compartmentalized,lemming masses blinded by paychecks, power, presuppositions
and perpetual propaganda have always separated themselves from the burdened few who cry aloud and spare not in telling the truth]
“Government is not reason, it is force; like fire, it is a useful servant but a fearful master.” -George Washington
-best regards, Bruce

When you have that much weight come crashing down..things are going to get pulverized..however , contrary to popular opinion there was not mountains of concrete dust created when they collapsed. There were in fact plenty of small chunks of concrete left in the pile of rubble.

No more dust was produced than would be expected from the collapse of a building that size.

It is not only my theory but the theory of hundreds of thousands of other professionals in their fields. Furthermore if you look carefully at one of the towers, it was not a complete pancake..the top part of one of the towers starts to fall to one side before the tower begins to collapse. notice it falls towards the impact zone?

No, the pile of rubble is equivalent to what would be expected from that sort of collapse. Most of that dust you see in the videos is not concrete but the gypsum board, insulation and various other building materials that actually were pulverized in the collapse. That accounted for a lot of the volume of that building. Not to mention there was not as much concrete in that building as you would expect..and that was by design. Plus the further up you go in the building the concrete is “lighter” meaning the concrete is less dense the further up you go…UNLESS it has a structural function of some sort. They do this to reduce weight….why would you want to reduce weight?? Ahh yes , to reduce overall loads on the support structures. ( this comes into play in a catastrophic way after the buildings were hit )

The rubble pile is not a smoking gun when taken in full context. The speed of the collapse has been estimated to be approximately 35 mph..consistent with a standard collapse. There are no signs of explosions going off , which would be needed to accomplish what they claim. The “evidence” they cite as proof of explosions is a normal occurrence when buildings collapse..it’s called air pressure.

The best you can come up with is a secret technology?? Winston, there is nothing secret about a fueled jetliner flying at full speed into the towers and destroying 30-40% of the support structures on several floors all at once plus starting a fire on all of these floors simultaneously.

The steel doesn’t have to melt to fail at this point.

The remaining steel is now carrying more than its design load by a factor of four or more in some cases…plus you have partial collapses in the building itself adding to the loads on floors beyond the overloading they are already experiencing from the removal of so many support columns and trusses. Add to all of that stress a steady and hot fire burning from the time it was ignited by the impact til the building started to collapse. The heat was more than enough to weaken the already overstressed support members past their breaking point…and they naturally gave out.

Once those planes hit the towers it was a matter of when, not if they would come down. They did their homework and they got exactly the effect they were going for…they brought down the towers.

No secret weapon

No MiB secretly planting explosives in all three buildings

Nothing at all except extreme amounts of kinetic energy being released upon the towers by the two airplanes..followed by the aforementioned stresses on the remaining structure.

Like I have previously stated, ironically had the towers been built like they are in earthquake zones…i.e. a reinforced concrete core..they might still be standing to this day. The very fact that they did not reinforce the core of the building was a significant factor in its collapse. That and a weak link as far as the truss to column connection at the core columns. I have looked at the blueprints and in the case of a weakened truss, this particular connection can fail in a catastrophic way…which is exactly what happened in the two towers.

I’ve studied the blueprints myself, I understand what I’m looking at when I do look at blueprints and I couple that with my knowledge of loads and structures plus the facts I know about the attack and it becomes a no brainer how the towers fell.

There is nothing unexplained about how the towers came down.

Winston, I have looked at the facts. I’ve read both sides in this “debate”. I have hands on knowledge of buildings and how they are put together and how they can be taken down , knowledge gained over 25 years in this industry.

There is nothing of substance coming from the truther side of the debate. Your attempt at “alternative” theories ignores the actual mundane physical reason for the collapse.

Shadow you obviously didn’t understand my analogy. I don’t need to know the details of the conspiracy to know it occurred based on the outcome! I am not telling you what happened, what floors the explosives were on etc, I’m telling you what could not have happened (19 Arab theory)and explaining the likely logical conspirators based on the fact the us govt has done everything to suppress a true investigation! You cannot even accept Al-Qaeda is a western intelligence invention, and according to former FBI translator Seibel Edmonds, Bin Laden was on the payroll right up until the day of 9/11! Bin Laden isn’t with-holding footage of the Pentagon incident, nor did Al Qaeda run the 15 war games on that day to confuse NORAD! Condi verifiably lied about prior knowledge etc etc. Al-Qaeda didn’t call mayor Willie Brown the night before telling him not to fly. A so called testimony from Bin Laden counts for nothing, people claim responsibility for crimes they did not commit all the time, and the police aren’t as retarded as you just to rest upon such a claim.

So you revel in your ignorance and use that to justify and prove your conspiracy theory?

You are , in effect, touting the fact that you are merely a sheep, following the herd without a critical thought in your brain.

It is extremely important to know why explosives were placed in the upper floors of a building. Especially if part of your theory involves secret government agents surreptitiously placing explosives to later be used to bring down the buildings. The evidence you and your side present as proof of the explosions belies the fact that if they are explosions , they are in the wrong part of the building to cause a collapse.

You do need to know on what floor they were placed, since the location of explosives in a building and exactly what they are attached to is the Keystone as it were to knowing what will happen when they go off.

Your refusal to even want to find the answers to those questions destroys your claims of “inside knowledge of the truth” since to truly know the truth one would have to explore all possibilities as to the cause of the effect.

What you say could not have happened, in fact DID happen…on live television in some cases. Those planes were hijacked by these 19 people, 3 of the 4 found their targets…that’s a 75% success rate…a phenomenal military success on their part from a strictly percentage and statistical basis. We know it was these 19 and their handlers ( Osama, KSM, et al ) because they all made videos touting their success in the case of Osama, or videos of the hijackers themselves praising Allah.

Nothing you have presented to date refutes the fact that they are on tape boarding the planes, on recordings from air traffic control during the takeover, on video tape admitting their part in the attack, people from the planes called their loved ones and described the very hijackers you say didn’t do it. They identified themselves, the planes DID in fact crash into the towers while they were under the control of the terrorists you say didn’t exist.

The government can’t fake all of this AND keep everyone involved in that part alone quiet this long. Not to mention all the people involved in setting the explosives, making a missile look like a jetliner so people think they saw a jetliner crash into the Pentagon…fake all these passengers and their grieving families so as to give the appearance of a large loss of life..Did people actually die in the Towers guys? Or is that part of the conspiracy too?

you see the list goes on and on as to how many people would have had to have been involved in this conspiracy had it been elements inside the government.

There has been no suppression of 9/11 investigations. Dear god, people like you are all over the place constantly investigating 9/11 and you still can’t find anything…yet no one is trying to stop you now are they? Your websites haven’t been shut down, no one is being jailed for making claims of a conspiracy…and no, Clare has provided nothing but her word as proof of her false imprisonment for her belief in 9/11 conspiracies. Nothing has been done to shut you up or stop any of you from investigating to your hearts content…The U.S. government is not suppressing anything or anyone in regards to 9/11.

Wait, you are claiming that Al Qeda doesn’t exist?? Are you serious?

You have been caught in at least SEVEN lies and yet you continue to spew lunacy about Al Qeda being a made up organization by western intelligence? Al Qeda warned Willie Brown?? wow , that’s a new one..even for you.

Seriously man, you can’t support a damn thing you are spewing right now and are an admitted and proven liar.

You just crowed about how proud you are of your ignorance of the facts and that you revel in your ignorance because the video looks real enough to you apparently….Dear god man you need help…you truly are delusional.

Now That I know who you are, I will make sure to report you to the proper authorities….for your own good.

You are a danger to yourself, and others and need help….

It will be ok, I’ll make sure they get to you quick and give you the help you need.

Thank you for letting me know who you are…it will make it easier to find you now.

I am a government operative , right nz? A paid disinformation agent correct?? That is what you claim isn’t it??

The men in white coats will be around soon enough to have a chat with you. Clare can probably fill you in on what comes next.

Good Luck Will, I hope you get the help you need.

Don’t fight them, it will make it easier for you that way.

Good luck man, talk to you later.

There were explosives in building seven end of story

Fire could not collapse a building in that fashion regardless of the truss arrangement

It is inane to argue about where the explosives were placed or what Rumsfeld had for breakfast, if any explosives were present then they had to come from the US govt and it would have to be an inside job, there is no other feasable explanation, so go cry to your dumb wife and kids shadow.

Live in denial, don’t wonder why the bbc reported building 7’s collapse whilst it was still standing, don’t let such evidence get in the way of your government religion

Shadow, I thought concrete type slabs was used for the floor structures, all the way up. Or did they use gypsum board instead.

The fires would not have burned long enough to have effected the steel structure. If there was an inferno why were there people waving from the impact zones.
Also why is there no visible Boeing wreckage at these impact zones.

At low altitiude Boeing passenger jets cannot fly at full speed, 2 thirds of their full speed at best.

When you say the kinetic energy of the planes, are you suggesting the planes fully penetrated the towers to create the kinetic energy via their weight.
One of the biggest mysteries is there being no plane wreckage falling down onto the street.

Can you link me to a site that shows any Boeing wreckage from any of the 9/11 crash sites. All I am asking is to see wreckage similar to Lockerbie where the plane blew up in mid air.

When the height of the towers is factored into a 10 second collapse, the speed is well in excess of 35mph.

No, concrete is used for the floors all the way up. What I described is that they use different types of concrete as you go higher up in the building. They do this for ALL high rises, not just the towers. The further up you go in high rises, the concrete mix is different..it is made less dense, therefore making it lighter. This reduces overall loads on the support structures. The only exception to this would be concrete that has a structural job to perform. That would as a matter of necessity be concrete of a structural nature.

Yes the fire did burn long enough to affect a damaged and extremely overstressed steel structure and several lab tests have proven that to be true. This steel did was not affected by simply the heat. It was the heat for an extended period of time, coupled with the extreme loads placed upon the remaining columns and trusses due to the removal of so many key support columns by the planes ( remember that the core was not protected by reinforced concrete and that allowed the central columns to be affected. The way the towers were built was a fatal flaw. There were only two main groups of columns holding up the floors…the exterior of the building was actually steel columns and the interior columns. Between those two point were the trusses that carried the weight of the floors. When you remove both ends of the floor supports…the trusses can’t do their job and the floor falls), and finally some damage to those columns and trusses themselves.

Why was there no visible wreckage in the buildings?? Have you not seen the pictures of parts of the airplanes being found all around Ground Zero?? They have found parts of the fuselage, wheels, parts of the seats, and so on…there was plenty of plane wreckage found in and around the WTC site.

Im stating that they penetrated the towers like a hot knife through butter. In one case reaching all the way through the core to come out the other side…slicing through columns and trusses the whole time. Think, Mass times Velocity equals Momentum for an idea of the energy released when the planes hit the buildings.

Once again, plenty of plane wreckage was found on the street, on top of buildings, in the rubble of the towers, everywhere around the area pieces of the plane were found..even parts of people still strapped into their seats. If you think no wreckage was found, then you aren’t doing much investigating.

Here are several pictures of 767 wreckage in and around the WTC crash site

http://www.questionsquestions.net/WTC/WTC767images/fuselage.jpg

http://www.questionsquestions.net/WTC/WTC767images/landinggear.jpg

http://www.questionsquestions.net/WTC/WTC767images/engine.jpg

http://www.questionsquestions.net/WTC/WTC767images/engine.jpg

http://www.questionsquestions.net/WTC/WTC767images/panel+wheel.jpg

http://img54.echo.cx/img54/7986/jettire2blocksaway9ih.jpg

http://wtcdebris.0catch.com/_webimages/c.jpg

http://wtcdebris.0catch.com/_webimages/streetengine1cutp-th.JPG

I can easily find dozens and dozens of pictures of 767 plane wreckage at the WTC site Winston. Why haven’t you been able to answer your questions until now? It took a few clicks of a mouse to bring up pages of pictures of the plane wreckage you claim didn’t exist.

No Winston, it has been estimated by experts in that field to be about 35mph.

here is a report by one of the investigating agencies which states that it took approx 25 seconds or so for the entire building to collapse…that works out to about 35mph for a building of 1360 ft +/-

NIST estimated the elapsed times for the first exterior panels to strike the ground after the collapse initiated in each of the towers to be approximately 11 seconds for WTC 1 and approximately 9 seconds for WTC 2. These elapsed times were based on: (1) precise timing of the initiation of collapse from video evidence, and (2) ground motion (seismic) signals recorded at Palisades, N.Y., that also were precisely time-calibrated for wave transmission times from lower Manhattan (see NCSTAR 1-5A).

As documented in Section 6.14.4 of NIST NCSTAR 1, these collapse times show that:

“… the structure below the level of collapse initiation offered minimal resistance to the falling building mass at and above the impact zone. The potential energy released by the downward movement of the large building mass far exceeded the capacity of the intact structure below to absorb that energy through energy of deformation.

Since the stories below the level of collapse initiation provided little resistance to the tremendous energy released by the falling building mass, the building section above came down essentially in free fall, as seen in videos. As the stories below sequentially failed, the falling mass increased, further increasing the demand on the floors below, which were unable to arrest the moving mass.”

In other words, the momentum (which equals mass times velocity) of the 12 to 28 stories (WTC 1 and WTC 2, respectively) falling on the supporting structure below (which was designed to support only the static weight of the floors above and not any dynamic effects due to the downward momentum) so greatly exceeded the strength capacity of the structure below that it (the structure below) was unable to stop or even to slow the falling mass. The downward momentum felt by each successive lower floor was even larger due to the increasing mass.

From video evidence, significant portions of the cores of both buildings (roughly 60 stories of WTC 1 and 40 stories of WTC 2) are known to have stood 15 to 25 seconds after collapse initiation before they, too, began to collapse. Neither the duration of the seismic records nor video evidence (due to obstruction of view caused by debris clouds) are reliable indicators of the total time it took for each building to collapse completely.

http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm

Yes I know people will say…ooh ooh look a government website..but these reports are backed up by non governmental agencies that have done investigations of this collapse.

So , in conclusion there is no mystery of invisible plane wreckage at the WTC sites

No mystery as to how the planes were able to cut through the buildings like hot knives through butter

No mystery whatsoever ,except why people continue to believe the wild unproven claims of conspiracy theorists in the face of so much evidence to the contrary from all corners of the debate, not JUST government sites.

Forget the fact that it is humanly IMPOSSIBLE for this many people to be kept quiet for this long. We are talking thousands of people involved in a government conspiracy and subsequent cover up. You can’t keep that many people quiet no matter how hard you try..not in this day and age with the internet and worldwide communication at everyone’s reach in a heartbeat…it’s just not going to happen.

I’ve countered each and everyone of your questions with facts.

How can you logically sit there and claim some secret weapon as the cause of the towers collapse? That is so far out in left field as to be unworthy of further comment. You are presented with mountains of evidence that explains in brutal detail how all this went down…and yet..you continue to cling to “secret technologies” and “shadow governments” as the “true” cause…

It is akin to you standing there arguing that the sun is going to rise in the west tomorrow…and if it doesn’t it will be because someone in the government got to all of us and brainwashed us into believing the “lie” that the sun actually rises in the East.

You protestations are that out of touch with reality if you truly believe these conspiracy theories Winston and are not just trolling.

There were explosives in building seven end of story

Fire could not collapse a building in that fashion regardless of the truss arrangement

It is inane to argue about where the explosives were placed or what Rumsfeld had for breakfast, if any explosives were present then they had to come from the US govt and it would have to be an inside job, there is no other feasable explanation, so go cry to your dumb wife and kids shadow.

Live in denial, don’t wonder why the bbc reported building 7’s collapse whilst it was still standing, don’t let such evidence get in the way of your government religion

If There were explosions in WTC7 Nz..then prove it…it’s your theory..PROVE IT.
Show me your evidence that proves there were explosives set off in WTC7.

You are a 7 times proven liar NZ , you need to provide proof , since your word is worthless.

Yes Nz, fire burning for as long as it did in WTC7 , coupled with the fact that it was not a pristine building , a good portion of the lower floors were critically damaged by debris from the twin towers…add in reports from firefighters at the time of no water pressure due to CUT water lines…by….TONS OF DEBRIS that just fell from the towers…and you get a third building collapse. This isn’t rocket science kid…well to you apparently it is..but to the rest of us…it’s pretty straightforward how these towers came down.

So now you aren’t sure there were explosives in the building Nz?? You’ve changed your story again. Now you say IF there were explosives placed they had to be placed by government agents…so now you’re not sure?? Or can you explain how government agents hid all the wires and demolition of the walls needed to set the explosives in the first place? There’s hope for you yet kid….keep questioning the conspiracy you’ve pledged your life to…learning is good, it brightens dark corners.

Try to answer the question of how they would place all of the explosives needed to bring down WTC7 without being detected. Keep working on that kid, eventually the truth will dawn on you. Start by researching what is actually involved in the explosive demolition of a building. When you start to grasp that concept, you will be well on your way towards understanding how ludicrous the claim of controlled demolition becomes in the case of WTC 7, 1 and 2

Knowledge is power kid…I see signs of hope in you.

And yes there is a feasible explanation for why the WTC7 came down.

Time, damage, heat and gravity/load.

At least you’ve stopped throwing out idle threats. That’s a good start.

Now, go look up what is involved in explosive demolition of a building and get to studying. I expect a full report later today on your basic understanding of explosive demolition.

Good luck

Hey Nz, give me your professional opinion on truss placements in buildings vs loads..and why the truss configuration in the WTC towers 1 and 2 wasn’t a factor in their collapse.

You made the claim that truss placement is irrelevant….please elaborate.

if you can……

remember, you’re a 7 times proven liar..and you even admitted to lying …so you need to provide hard evidence to support your claims.

Have fun kid

Here Winston

Kinetic Energy

KE=1/2mv( squared )

m=mass

v=velocity

in the case of a 767 we are talking a large number….meaning a LOT of energy was released when the plane hit the towers.

Clare’s shadow, I’m puzzled as to why you use a woman’s name in your screen name, I assume its because you are bullying Clare Swinney repeatedly. It does say alot about who you are, perhaps you should bring that up at your next therapy session. Why not change your name to ‘Shadow!’ or ‘the shadow’ or ‘the man who talks to him self’ repeating the same lines over and over.
New Investigation of 911!, a real one, not a pretend one. (see that was me, repeating the same line over again, like you do)
No seriously we are so glad you have been assigned to us for another week.

Typical reply from lombeer – trying to discredit ‘Clare’s Shadow’ because he can not discredit his facts and conclusions.
Understandable of course because ‘Clare’s Shadow’ is right and Lommy can not mount a rational fact based counter argument.

Hey Lorraine, maybe the Illuminati agents planted homeopathic bombs? No need for wires or tons of explosives – just sprinkle a few drops of water that had been in contact with a bomb and then highly diluted. Yeah, that makes as much sense as your other conspiracy theories (guesses).

Regards
Gary

I strongly suggest people stop arguing with this guy. There is nothing that you can say that will change his mind as he is here purely to agitate and drive people away.

Lets save our energy for something more positive and leave him to his evil self.

Of course Lorraine, you can’t counter the facts to run and hide in your caves.

You haven’t tried to debate me or anyone else that disagrees with you, how can you make the claim it’s pointless to debate??

You have yet to try.

I can explain in vivid detail how these towers came down.

When asked for any of you to explain even ONE part of your theory you run and hide. You can’t even explain how all the explosives were kept a secret from so many people for so long…You can’t even explain how the explosives were placed, let alone how they were remotely detonated without a sound being heard from the multiple explosions needed to pull off what you claim.

That is just ONE small aspect of your conspiracy theory and Not one of you can explain how it came to pass…just that “it did” because apparently some Youtube video said so.

Seriously Lorraine, try to actually debate for a change…THEN decide if someone is unable to debate.

You can’t even defend the details of your own conspiracy theory and claim IM the one that doesn’t know how to debate an issue??

Is that your final answer Lorraine? Before we send it to the judges??

Oh and how is that PI gig working out for ya?? Did you find out who I am yet??

Nz said he could find out who I was, if only I would tell him my name and where I lived…THEN he could triangulate my coordinates and find me.

Did you teach him that “investigative technique” Lorraine? Or did he come up with that gem all on his own?

Wouldn’t it be great if all you had to do to find out who someone was and track them down was to simply ask them who they are and where they are located?? Makes that whole investigation thing a snap wouldn’t you say Lorraine??

Hopefully your PI skills are better than his.

Shadow, you keep on trying to fudge science & maths to promote your beloved pancake collapse theory.
The towers collapsed in 10 seconds not 25, just look at the collapse videos.
As for the fires burning for a long period of time, hot enough to effect the steel, why are there people waving from the impact zones.
Also WTC2 collapsed barely an hour after being hit.

To me it is a mystery how the planes cut through the towers like butter, but not for someone like you who redesigns the laws of maths and science, to fit your arguements..

Those links you posted of Boeing wreckage are laughable. The tyres on the landing gear survived the inferno, yet virtually the rest of the plane perished.
The engine parts fell from a great height yet did not damage the side walk, cleverly landing under scaffolding.
The only picture(the 1st link) evidential of being in Manhattan, is obviously photo shopped.
The fuselage has been photographed from a distance (depth of field) yet overlaps the the stair rail in the fore ground, and is also drawfed by the worker standing in the background

I agree lorraine, when the truth comes out Shadow will be as good as dead thanks to his treasonous support of mass murderers.

Don’t try baffle us with maths you don’t understand shadow.

Conservation of momentum is the law to be applied. p = m.v and whilst the mass of a 767 is greater than that of a 707 (which the buildings were designed to take multiple impacts from) a 707 is a faster aircraft. The total momentum involved is very similar, work it out for yourself.

‘meaning a LOT of energy was released when the plane hit the towers’-shadow

“a lot” is not science you idiot

no wonder why you want to protect your identity, I would be ashamed also

Lorraine is right. This guy is a professional disinfo agent. Note the looooong posts. This is to discourage anyone viewing this thread for the first time. His rambling rhetoric is just mindless denial-diversion. It’s a total wast of time and column space to respond to him.

Lombeer

Still can’t answer the questions about the details of your own theory I see.

It’s ok man, I can imagine what it feels like for you right about now. I’m slowly destroying your perfect little world, one piece at a time. Your whole worldview is falling down around you and you can’t fathom the implications.

I’m reading a distinct lack of critical responses to the facts of the case as related to the theories you profess to be true.

You have still not explained how these explosives were placed and kept hidden in WTC7. You have not explained why, IF there were explosives pre placed in the building they would be placed on the upper floors of the building where they would do no good in bringing it down…and had the added drawback of being extremely visible and thus negating your contention that the building was brought down by a secret use of explosives.

That’s just the part about WTC7 that you can’t seem to explain. Just one part of the overall 9/11 conspiracy theory that none of you can explain as to how it actually was pulled off.

I have raised questions about other aspects of YOUR theory…and none of you have been able to explain or even attempt to explain how each part came to pass….the best response I’ve got so far is Nz claiming that …I don’t need to know why…It just happened that way…

Oh , sorry, wrong answer…try again next time.

If you wish people to take your “theory” seriously…you have to explain how your theory could be accomplished as envisioned.

Stating..”Because I said so” is not sufficient proof. I’m sorry , but that is the hard cold reality of life in the real world.

How were the explosives placed on the sufficient number of columns without anyone noticing all the wires and detonation cord that would be required to pull off what you claim was done. You can’t just hide all of those explosives and the destruction work needed in order to make sure they are placed in exactly the correct locations.

YOU CAN”T HIDE THAT STUFF…it requires Far too many parts to be hidden “behind walls” or in elevator shafts.

The onus is on you to explain your theory. The entire scientific community disagrees with you and your 808 engineers and dozens of pilots…

It’s up to you people to prove and reliably demonstrate how it was pulled off before anyone is going to take anything you say seriously.

Go ahead attack me all you’d like. Unlike Clare..I’m not afraid of dissenting views. I named myself this to highlight her censorship of opposing viewpoints while claiming such open mindedness to “seek the truth”…apparently only pre approved truth is allowed in her free and open discussions…

But I digress….

and you truthers fail the test of your own theories.

As for you doubting my investigation skills, what would you know? You couldn’t even find my name which is hot-linked one click away, how fucking demented are you?
The feds can triangulate you within 3 square meters from your mobile signal.
And if I had your name I could find your house co-ordinates using google earth!
This is why you cannot grasp counter terrorism, you have no idea of intelligence capabilities. You just take a semi believable story at face value because you have little specialist knowlegde. I understand, I once bought the official story, but after doing a little research I realised how stupid I was, and was man enough to swallow my pride and accept the obvious.

Winston

YOU keep talking about a pancake collapse I am not.

Please try to pay attention Winston, it helps you argue the proper points.

No Winston, the entire tower collapse took approx 25 seconds from start to finish…don’t forget the videos only show the part you can see before it goes below the skyline.

You have to be careful completely relying on video.

The fires were not universal over the entirety of the affected floors. No one has made that claim except truthers. The fires did however cover enough area of several floors all at once to affect the remaining support structures in those locations, couple that with the increased stressed placed on these very columns and trusses and it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out what happened next.

Winston, I have not changed any laws of mathematics or physics.

The mass of the airplanes times their velocity squared, divided by half is a very large number…that is the amount of kinetic energy released when the planes hit….add to that the other equation of momentum which is Mass times velocity equals Momentum. So the mass of the airplane times the velocity of the airplane equals X amount of momentum ( or you could look at it as the push the plane needed to continue on through the structure)

I am not changing any laws of physics, I am in fact quoting laws of motion and mass to explain how and why the planes did what they did.

I build buildings for a living, I’m not an engineer but even I can understand these equations. It’s not like this is brand new science here guys…the human race has known about this stuff for a long long long time.

What is so hard for you guys to understand about gravity and the laws of physics? Even the basic ones?

Seriously , can you people explain how ANY part of your theory actually played out?

Oh and Winston

Photoshopped? that’s the best you can do? You opened the door in your face and the best you can come up with is that the pictures were photoshopped? But of course NONE of the pictures on any 9/11 truther site are photoshopped right?? Of course those pictures are beyond reproach right?

Winston, your arguments are falling apart, you keep coming up with more and more fanciful reasons to ignore countless pieces of evidence staring you straight in the face.

How is ignoring evidence to be considered..”searching for the truth”??

Nz, I have a very good grasp of the intelligence capabilities of my government…

But it was YOU that said that you were going to find my house on Google Earth…but first I had to tell you who I was and where I lived…

Dude, stop and think about that for a second…Don’t you realize how stupid that was Will??

I mean wow, that’s amazing, you mean all I have to do is tell you who I am and where I live and you’ll be able to find out on Google Earth who I am and where I live??

I mean dude, my hat is off to you on your investigative skills there brah.

About realizing how stupid you were Nz….Yeah, umm….you still have some realizing yet to do my friend.

Winston
Not only did the landing gear land without damaging the sidewalk, the tire and the break assembly magically repaired themselves. Boeing makes one helluva airplane.
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/8914/landinggearcomposit.jpg

Ok Shadow $1000 on that also!

You give me your full name, no address and I will tell you where you live colour of your house, businesses etc! No kidding just to prove a point that my ability to investigate a subject far exceeds your own which most likely means you are wrong about 9/11 also!

Then there’s the case of the floating light pole:
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/650/pole5.jpg
The light pole in the photo above was supposedly hit by the wing of an airplane going over 500mph. It was broken in two and knocked sideways. The pole had lateral momentum that had to be arrested by the ground. There would be lateral gouges in the grass where the pole skidded to a stop. There are no gouges. This pole was laid there.

I swear you twist everything or misunderstand due to dementia. I never asked for your address you liar!
I said I could give you co-ordinates of your house and somehow you doubt that!
You have know awareness of the eletronic straight jacket we live in. You’re quaint view of the world is cute, but you really shouldn’t consider yourself an adult fit to bring up children

1) Three skyscrapers were destroyed on 9/11.
2) The third, WTC 7, was a 47 story building that went down at 5:20pm.
3) WTC 7 imploded[1], fell at free fall acceleration for 105 feet[2] and landed mostly in its own footprint[3]
4) Lead investigator for NIST, Shyam Sunder, stated:
“a free fall time would be an object that has no structural components below it . . . there was structural resistance that was provided in this particular case.”

In other words, the NIST hypothesis does not include a period of free fall acceleration because there is always structural resistance.

The only way to get a building to fall at free fall acceleration is to remove all the supporting structure with explosives.

1 FEMA Chapter 5 pg 30 & 31
http://www.fema.gov/pdf/library/fema403_ch5.pdf
http://www.implosionworld.com/cinema.htm

2 NIST NCSTAR 1-A pg 45 [final report on WTC 7]
http://wtc.nist.gov/NCSTAR1/NCSTAR1Aindex.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vz43hcKYBm4

3 NIST Appendix L pg 33.
http://wtc.nist.gov/progress_report_june04/appendixl.pdf
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/2510/wtc7debris2iu7.jpg

4 Tech briefing 8 26 08 URL and questions:
1:01:48 Question from David Chandler about freefall.
1:03:14 Shyam Sunder: The analysis shows . . . . . . . .
2:24:24 Question from Steven Jones about fall time.
http://nasathermalimages.s3.amazonaws.com/public/video/NIST_WTC7_Technical_Briefing_August_26_2008_venc02a.wmv

nz

Stop wasting your time and energy on Clare. It’s an endless, worthless endeavor. By responding. you are allowing him to drag this thread into a never ending pissing match.

Thanks for posting Chris

nz you couldn’t give me any information about me.

Try explaining your theory kid.

Try to explain how “They” got inside the buildings and placed all the explosives and the associated wires and detonation cord..without anyone seeing them do it.

You have to actually cut some of the steel ahead of time to aid in the destruction.

None of this can be done secretly.

So how was it pulled off nz.

Can any of you geniuses explain that one tiny part of your conspiracy??

Anyone?

Winston’s idea is a heretofore unknown secret technology that doesn’t leave any trace nor make a sound.

Ewing’s idea is a two second video showing some windows being blown out from the collapse of a building and claims that is proof of explosions.

Can anyone explain how they got the explosives in there?

How about explain why they would put explosives in the wrong part of a building where they could be seen?

These are your theories, can you not explain your reasoning behind your conclusions?

Or are your theories just a title with no meaning?

I’m asking you now to defend your own theories and none of you can do even that simple task.

You can disagree with my interpretations all you want…it doesn’t matter I have science and facts behind me. But your problem is quickly becoming the simple fact that you can not articulate the reasons behind your beliefs and theories.

I can explain in detail how one event led to another eventually leading up to a pile of rubble where the towers once stood.

You people make a claim, i.e.

Explosives were placed in WTC7 to facilitate a controlled demolition and remotely detonated.

That is one of your contentions, correct?

Then explain how it was done and no one noticed.

You can’t because your theory is a group of cherry picked facts and false rumors that can’t reliably be shown to be part of a logical series of events.

If explosives were used, how was it done, exactly how much was used, what type, where was it placed, how was it wired together, how was the work hidden from view, etc etc….

You people can’t answer those questions, or refuse to accept them as even legitimate to ask…yet claim to be seeking the truth.

I’m sure yall will call me more names and continue to avoid explaining your own theories in detail….because …there is no there, there. When you peel back the surface of your theory …it disappears.

It is the hallmark of a conspiracy theory.

That’s right Chris , if you could suddenly remove all lower structural support you could theoretically produce a freefall event…

However the source you cite and quote says there was no freefall event due to the building collapsing on itself.

You then go on to ignore the sentence you just quoted and rail on about how there is only “one way” to create a freefall effect…when that isn’t in contention according to your own source.

Yeah Chris, thanks for posting something that proves my point about you people…that being you are living in a fantasy world where only pre approved facts are allowed in and anything that doesn’t fit is rejected.

Damn dude , at least quote things that support your case and not destroy it…it just makes my job that much easier.

Shadow you are hopelessly out of your depth. There is nothing conventional about the way WTC1&2 collapsed, defying the laws of physics.
Stop talking out of your arse about the towers falling in 25seconds.

I am only ignoring the evidence that doesn’t exist.
I said that 1 picture was photo shopped, the one allegedly taken on top of WTC5, the perspectives are laughable.

How could the fires have burned long enough to weaken the steel if the building fell within an hour of being hit.

Also what ever damage the planes did to the buildings, the same impact should have damaged the planes, if not more.
The planes could not act as angle grinders, cutting through a handfull of floor levels of steel and concrete.
If you study the videos, UA
175 shows no deceleration when entering the building.

” You have to be careful completely relying on video”, I certainly agree with you there.

… and what is your job here exactly ?

Apart from coming off sounding like a 70’s Bond Villain
“Ahhh Mr Bont – I see you cannot match my superior intel-lect”

- and being an accessory to mass murder – you are here to spam and misdirect people away from knowing more about what might really matter – (and I wonder why that is?)

Chris is right – this is a pissing match and a distraction – and Clare’s Shadow (read: mean spirited fuckwit piece of sh*t) cannot apply his ‘wits’ to the multitude of other unanswered questions from that day.

Such as questions raised here:

http://uncensored.co.nz/2009/09/12/kevin-barrett-on-russian-television-talks-911/

and here

http://uncensored.co.nz/2009/09/10/charlie-sheen-twenty-minutes-with-the-president/

All he can do is wank on about buildings.

CS is BS – and an extremely disappointing failure of a human being.

And he won’t take up any more of my time …

Shape up, fucker.

A little more caution with the initials there mate.

Be the change like these people are.

Up to two million march on Capital Hill to protest against Obama’s spending in “tea party” demonstration. Of course the mainstream muppet media are trying to downplay the numbers but thinks to the video footage it’s not working.

Article here at Alex’s site:

http://www.prisonplanet.com/mainstream-media-cover-up-implodes-as-millions-march-in-dc.html

Hey nz_truth how did the protest go on Saturday?

Winston

The towers collapsed following simple physical laws.

You cite videos as proof, yet videos don’t show the entire picture of that event…there was more building below the line of the buildings which block your view.

To my knowledge there is not a complete video of the ENTIRE structure collapsing. At least none that I’ve found , and I looked. I’ve seen the various views of the buildings falling down and you do not get to see the entire collapse from one location all the way to the foundation.

They did not fall any faster than would be expected in a collapse of this magnitude. There is no reliable evidence of explosive devices being used in WTC 1,2,7 or ANY of the buildings in that complex. None Winston..not one reliable source can place explosives in those towers. None.

Forget the logistics involved..which none of you can seem to explain …yet.

The picture you claim is photoshopped is not one of the pictures I posted Winston. So exactly which pictures were you looking at? They certainly weren’t the ones I posted clearly showing plane parts in various locations in and around the Towers..and yes the sidewalk was damaged too.

You got caught talking shit, and are now trying to backpedal out of it. Whoops too late, there are many more pictures of the wreckage you say doesn’t exist Winston. Care to try again??

You are turning out to be no smarter than nz.

Winston, you agree that videos can be deceiving…yet cite a video to support your contention that UA175 showed no signs of deceleration??

You just contradicted yourself, while trying to “get me”

And how exactly did the video tell you anything about whether or not how much the plane did or did not decelerate?

The formula is there if you’d care to do the math.

Ke=1/2mv(squared) and Momentum= mv

get the mass of the 767 , multiply it by the velocity of the 767 at time of impact Squared, then divide by half and that is the amount of kinetic energy released at time of impact…

To see how much momentum the plane had in kilograms of force…take the mass of the plane and multiply it by the speed and you get a figure showing you how much force in kilograms is being imparted to the object being hit by the kenetic energy of the previous equation.

I’m sure there would be degradation of the momentum as it encountered more and more obstacles..but to be able to quantify that from a few seconds of video??

Nope, not you , not me, not even an expert could reliably tell you whether there was a perceptible visual loss of momentum ( deceleration )

Nice try though Winston.

Oh yeah ewing

I need to shape up?

Or what?? You’ll avoid explaining your theory even more??

You’ll call me more names??

EEEEEKKKKKKK

whatever will I do

here’s an idea

You could try to explain how any part of your theory was pulled off without anyone finding out..we could start there…

If you think you can handle it.

I mean you think I’m a pushover…but are too afraid to debate an issue..you just post links…

Do links speak for you? Or do you have your own mind?

Try to explain your understanding of the theory you believe is true Ewing..or any of you truthers..

Can you do it?

I am not commenting anymore on this thread!

Shadow it is obvious the collapse of building 7 was initiated with explosives. I do not say how they got them in position since I do not know and that would be speculation, but since the secret service occupied floors in that building I do not see it as an impossibility for them to have wired the building covertly. It is more believable than an arab who couldn’t fly a cessna piloting a flight 77 into the pentagon, somehow getting past the surface to air defense system perimeter!

Another analogy If I see a ball at the top of a hill and moments later at the bottom of the hill, I can asssume the ball rolled down the hill. You want to debate how the ball negociated its way down the hill around trees and potholes citing all the impossibilities whilst ignoring the end result. Building 7 collapsed in demolition stlye, it is not for me to explain why, that is for a true independent investigate panel to discover. End of the day it wasn’t those arabs so only one possibility is left and all the evidence points towards elements within the US govt. MOTIVE, MEANS, HISTORY—-CRIMINAL ELEMENTS OF THE US GOVT/ MILITARY/IDUSTRIAL COMPLEX. I cannot know all the details, that would be speculation, only because they are with-holding the details! A dog gets run down by a car, do you say it didn’t happen because no on can tell you which way it was crushed?!

Hope you wear a bullet proof vest from now on shadow. bye bye now

“I’m sure yall will call me more names ………..”
Looks like you were right again ‘Clare’s Shadow’. These conspiracy nut jobs are so predictable.
They do not respond to reason and evidence because their beliefs are only faith based. Ridicule is the best way to deal with them, although I feel a little bit mean doing it. It is almost like laughing someone less fortunate than yourself which is just mean. Fortunately the truthers can actually do something about their stupid beliefs – like getting an education in the relevant field for a start. But they don’t and so they leave themselves open to ridicule and derision.
911 truthers and anti-vaccers have homeopathic brains……..

Regards
Gary
PS Get vaccinated. It is safe and good for you.

Lorraine, here is how things are sometimes lost in translation from country to country.

These protests are widely covered here in the states…their message is getting out..no conspiracy here lady….Believe me, I live here, you have to truly not be paying attention if you don’t know about these protests this weekend and the previous month or so.

Just because YOUR media might be filtering you access to the world around you…we are very well informed here thank you.

no need for investigations and committees to find out why the media isn’t telling us the whole story….

Sheesh woman, you are one sorry piece of work.

For people living in Wellington or anyone who wants to attend Richard Gage for Architects and Engineers for 911 truth is presenting on the 21st November.

Details are still being finalised at this stage but at present these are:

Wellington, NZ
Date: Sat, Nov 21, 2009
Time: 2:00PM

Topic: 9/11: Blueprint for Truth – The Architecture of Destruction

Speaker: Richard Gage, AIA

Venue: Museum of New Zealand

Location: 55 Cable Street
Wellington, New Zealand

Event: Soundings Theater, Te Papa Tongarewa

Check here for updated details
http://www.ae911truth.org/speakings.php#speak161

Admin – could we post this info on the frontpage of the website somewhere?

Yah troll these nutjobs are pretty hilarious.

I got some punk kid in new zealand threatening to hunt me down on Google Earth ..because I went and disagreed with his conspiracy theory

I have supposedly otherwise intelligent people calling me all sorts of names and implying all sorts of nefarious motives behind my statements and requests for them to support their theory by discussing it’s points.

I very clearly answered questions they had about my knowledge of buildings etc..but it was rather telling that when I turned it around to them having to explain their theory…the name calling grew more shrill. The threats escalated.

I have nz sending out hit teams …using Google Earth no doubt to find me…and Lorraine , who claims to be a PI , desperately trying to find out who I am by throwing out the names of random construction companies and asking..did you work for them?

It’s the same crack detective work employed by nz in asking me to tell him who I was and where I lived ( and nz i dont recall saying address you wanted to know my name and city so you could use Google Earth to find me)

Somehow , I don’t feel all that nervous about teenage hit teams of conspiracy nuts hopping planes and flying to the states to hunt me down…but hey ..ya never know…

Then again, we are government agents and all Troll. We should be pretty safe, as long as we keep doing our jobs…for….Them….shit, I’ve already said too much….

I must go, the internet scrambler is on the fritz, internet cloak failing, must repair…signing off

Troll,

you mean ridicule like that??

Or should I be more subtle??

LOL

Oh boy Gage is going to speak….oooohhhh

too bad none of his theories about the towers stand up to the scrutiny of his peers.

But hey, you guys have fun.

Isn’t that sweet. Troll and Shadow are having a play date.

I for one would pay to watch you debate the facts with Richard Gage. I doubt you would have the balls though, far easier to sit behind a PC and spout endless nonsense. Richard would eat you alive anyway – and I am sure even you know that. Sad little man.

I’ve read his work…from my end of the debate I’m not impressed…but his peers are not impressed at all..and that is much more important than what I think of the man.

The fact still remains, you and others like you adhere to a theory that none of you have been able to articulate as to how it was actually pulled off.

It’s fine if you wish to believe something…but there is typically a reason why.

I can very easily articulate why I believe as I do about the series of events that led up to the collapse of the towers and where I’m coming from to make those assessments. I can give examples and answer questions about those examples , in detail.

yet, when I ask some of you to do the same with how YOU see the series of events unfolding…You can’t, or won’t. You won’t expand upon your theory because in the words of nz..he doesn’t wish to speculate…yet his entire contention that explosives were used to bring down WTC7 is based entirely on speculation. There is no hard evidence to support his contention, and that is fine with him…he “just knows”. Lorraine, IF you are truly a private investigator….you should know that hearsay evidence does not stand up in court….why should it be any different here?

None of you have any understanding of how buildings are put together or the concept of loads, or anything to do with the science of the collapse of these towers…but you all , to a person are CERTAIN your theory is the truth.

That is the furthest thing from logic Lorraine, one could ever be and still be honestly able to call it logic….and truly I am being kind in even giving you that.

You need to reevaluate your “facts” and start broadening your horizons a bit.

Popular Mechanics’ Assault on 9/11 Truth

by Jim Hoffman

http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/gopm/index.html

Shadow
The photo shopped picture posted by you
http://www.questionsquestions.net/WTC/WTC767images/fuselage.jpg

“Winston, you agree that videos can be deceiving…yet cite a video to support your contention that UA175 showed no signs of deceleration”

That’s precisely my point you dick head, UA175 showed no signs of deceleration, so the video must be faked/ manipulated.
So what did cause the Towers to collapse, if the footage was faked.

I am like nztruth in that I’ve had enough of you, it’s time to let other people post for a while.

Who Controlled the World Trade Center?
Facts about the ownership, insurance, and security of the World Trade Center show that insiders had the means, motive, and opportunity to demolish the buildings:
The World Trade Center passed into private control on July 24, 2001 via a 99-year lease to a consortium headed by Silverstein Properties. [31]
Silverstein promptly secured an insurance policy covering “terrorist attacks”. [32]
In the wake of the attack, Silverstein sued the insurance companies to obtain twice the value of the policies, based on the two jet impacts being “two occurrences”, and eventually won. [33]
Security for the WTC was provided by Securacom, a company with ties to the Bush family. [34]
Bomb-sniffing dogs were pulled from the WTC the week before the attack. [35]

Winston, for starters the photo is legit.

However you did claim it was from WTC5, yet no such claim is made in the photo or anywhere else.

So are you divining the exact location through that secret technology you claimed brought down the WTC7 tower?

It makes it very easy for your theory and rather convenient that every bit of evidence you don’t like is fabricated in some manner.

Can you show how it was photoshopped Winston? Or did some website make that claim and you just accepted it? Are you going to implicate the remaining photos of plane wreckage shot at the WTC site because you think this ONE photo is suspect?

How do you explain the rest of the photos of wreckage you claim didn’t exist Winston??

Wait, let me guess….it was placed there when no one was looking right? Most likely during the large dust cloud so as to mask their movements right?

How do you logically claim there was no plane wreckage found at the WTC site when there are literally hundreds of photos showing …PLANE WRECKAGE at the WTC site??

Did all the people that testified to seeing the wreckage lie?

Here’s one for ya Winston…if there were no planes…where are all the people that were on them?? How do you explain their disappearances?? Their grieving families..are those people faking their grief? What about the missing planes if they didn’t actually fly into the towers…where did they go?

Your theories don’t stand up to scrutiny unless you can start answering some rather inconvenient questions from your point of view.

Lorraine,

It doesn’t matter who controlled the buildings.

The work required to set and wire all those explosives can not be hidden or explained away. There would have to be such a massive operation undertaken to properly set the explosives…IT WOULD HAVE BEEN NOTICED.

You can’t hide that much work…I don’t care which Man in Black controlled the towers.

You people build conspiracies upon conspiracies to explain conspiracies…it’s hilarious.

Oh I see, your best response to how it was pulled off is The Jews and Bush did it??

That is your evidence?? Racism and political hatred are you pillars of proof Lorraine?? Is that really what you want to base your conspiracy theory on?? Racism?? from those darn Jews again…you do realize in the warped views of conspiracy nuts and RACISTS , the Jewish people are responsible for everything in this world.

Hey, you know what Lorraine…there was this other group of people in history that claimed the Jews did it….what was their name again….it’s on the tip of my tongue…hang on , I’ll remember…I think it started with an N……..Nutsi, notzi..wait wait now I remember the last group that tried to blame everything on the Jewish people….The Nazis…or more precisely the National Socialist Party of early 20th Century Europe.

Are you a Nazi Lorraine? Have you read that fine piece of literature written by Der Furher?? In his masterpiece Mein Kampf …Der Furher explains in vivid detail how The Jews did it.

I’m just wondering if you’ve read that book since you seem to think…The Jews did it is a reasonable reason for the causes of 9/11.

Seig Heil Fraulein

It’s not how long the video clip is, CS.

What’s important is what the clip -shows-

In this case they show -explosions-

Not windows breaking, OK?

One last word of advice.

You seem like a bit of a lost soul – and I say that, because you seem overly self-involved

(as evident in your screeds of text above)

and also because you probably work for criminals

(who are responsible for deaths now numbering into the millions as your war on South West Asia drags excruciatingly on and on).

If you want to plug that big hole inside you
(i.e. find out who you are)
then I suggest you lose yourself in the service of others.

Not in the service of criminals.

Because that then makes you a criminal.

And that makes people hate you.

No Ewing, what that video shows are windows being blown out during a collapse of a building.

it is a common feature of collapsing buildings. It is not proof of explosions in and of itself.

Furthermore , they are in the wrong spot to be effective in bringing down a building.

You can’t even explain why they are in the wrong spot to do the job you claim they are doing let alone how they got there in the first place without anyone noticing
Deaths in the millions?? Really? Do you wish to stick with that story Ewing?? Perhaps you have some sort of proof of over a million casualties caused by the U.S. from a reputable source. Or am I supposed to just take your word for it? Not even the far out lefties in this country are making that claim and they HATED George Bush , with a passion. So where did you get your figures Ewing? IIRC the UN doesn’t even claim those sorts of casualty figures.

You mean the people that pay me to build things are criminals? Why? what have they done? Oh wait, you mean my….”other” employers….Them, the Men in Black…those people?? I can neither confirm nor deny I work for Them….I can neither confirm nor deny the very existence of….Them…How exactly do you know they are criminal Ewing? Do we have a mole in our ranks? Tell me now, you know we have ways of making people talk…look what we did to Clare..do you really want to take the risk yourself??..Who is it that’s feeding you information about …Them??

Scott, do you seriously expect people to take you seriously?? Or is this all just an act you put on for attention??

Do you really believe all this stuff you spew? or is Lorraine hawt and you’re just trying to get in her pants??

I mean come on…this whole conspiracy theory about 9/11 is patently absurd. You have to be working some sort of angle..what is it?

So Lorraine, is the insurance scam conspiracy separate from the NWO conspiracy when speaking of 9/11?

Or is the insurance scam conspiracy part of the overall, Jews Did It , reason for how all those explosives were placed in all three towers and no one noticed explanation??

I’m trying to keep track of the rapidly interlocking conspiracies involved in the towers destruction.

Is there like a schedule of events and a list of who was in charge of which conspiracy and whom they answered to? It’s getting harder for me to keep track of all the conspiracies.

We now have an insurance scam conspiracy that has a connection with the Bush family conspiracy along with Dick Cheney and Bin Laden and Rumsfeld and their secret conspiracy to blow up the same towers the insurance scam were going to blow up , except THIS conspiracy was going to use the destruction to initiate a global war to usher in a New World Order and make lots of money on Oil and war material ( except that hasn’t really happened) an in fact oil prices have not done much on average from the heady days …..5 years after the attack..in other words, no direct cause and effect.

So please advise as to who is running which conspiracy, and a link to a program of players so we at home can follow along.

Shadow has been making up for the lost time. (S)he apparently took the time to look for the explanation for the structural failure of the twin towers outlined in NIST’s 2005 final report on the collapse of the twin towers, according to which the top of each tower fell on the remainder of the tower like a pile driver, crushed it down in quasi-free fall, managed to crush itself at the same time, and did not fall sideways in the process.

Shadow seems to be fighting the wrong conspiracy. The evidence that the twin towers were demolished and that the successive official investigations were merely half-baked cover-ups is overwhelming.

The real mystery about 9/11 is not whether the twin towers were demolished with shock, awe and people inside, but who did it, how, what for, why the cover-up and censorship was so general, whether 9/11 was part of some pattern or bigger plan, and what the human population at large can do about it.

Denying the 9/11 demolitions is understandable, given the tightness of the censorship about them and the amplitude of the paradigm shift this knowledge causes people to go through. But the flat Earth model is more credible than the official conspiracy theory of “2 plane impacts + office fires = 3 skyscrapers destroying themselves in free fall.”

Love,

Dan, there is no mystery about the towers.

Two planes full of fuel crashed into them.

It destroyed many support columns and started fires.

The only mystery is why anyone would believe anything you people say when you can’t even articulate your own theory.

You people keep talking about overwhelming evidence…..yet can’t seem to ever produce any coherent chain of events , players involved and how it was pulled off without anyone noticing, not to mention all the missing people that were on the invisible planes that didn’t hit the towers.

I’m still waiting to see the overwhelming evidence to support your claims.

Where is the eyewitness testimony of anyone involved in placing the explosives? Where is the eyewitness testimony of witnesses raising questions about all the wires being attached to columns in the three towers? Where is the testimony of experts explaining exactly how all these explosives could have been placed and wired together without anyone noticing.

WHERE is the mountains of evidence that proves a controlled demolition of the towers and WTC7??

None of you have produced anything other than a few youtube videos and links to 9/11 truther sites.

None of which contain a verifiable chain of events and even a rough outline of a possible scenario as to how it was accomplished with no one noticing.

I see a big empty hole of evidence on your side,with a few scraps that have fallen into the pit…but no mountain…not yet at least.

Lots of really cool insults were hurled my way that’s for sure..but precious little in the way of mountains of evidence to refute my claims.

Keep trying though, you might come up with something that will stump me.

Since when is it necessary to review 9/11 Truth sites to know that the official technical investigation was a lie?

Has Shadow read the official final report by NIST on the collapse of the twin towers? If (s)he took the time to do so, would (s)he care to count the number of pages devoted to the actual collapse and share this number with us?

(S)he may surprise even this discussion’s truth-seekers, who apparently-to Shadow’s point-have not taken the time to go to the 10,000 pages of the report.

Love,

“How do you logically claim there was no plane wreckage found at the WTC site when there are literally hundreds of photos showing …PLANE WRECKAGE at the WTC site”

Shadow can you link to these hundreds of different photos.

“Here’s one for ya Winston…if there were no planes…where are all the people that were on them?? How do you explain their disappearances?? Their grieving families..are those people faking their grief? What about the missing planes if they didn’t actually fly into the towers…where did they go”

Do some research & your discover the anomolies your self of the passenger lists.

“Tell me now, you know we have ways of making people talk…look what we did to Clare..do you really want to take the risk yourself??..Who is it that’s feeding you information about …Them??”

Shadow your a sicko,please seek some professional help before you do yourself some harm.
There’s more to life than stalking people on the internet.

Winston,

I ridicule people like you because you deserve ridicule.

You can never , not once explain how any part of your conspiracy came into being.

I’ve given you the very mundane physical reasons why the buildings collapsed. There is no more to it than that.

You people have come up with the most elaborate conspiracy yet conceived by the minds of man to explain something so simple…and claim I’m the one that needs help?

You are so far gone you don’t even realize when you are being made fun of.

I have done the research, and seen the interviews with the grieving families , devastated from the loss of their loved ones that Were ON the Planes that you say didn’t exist and therefore didn’t crash into the towers.

What did all of us see crash into the towers Winston? Missiles disguised as 767 passenger jets? Where are all the people, it’s your theory..the onus is on you and your buddies to PROVE your theory overrides thousands of pages of research that says otherwise.

Winston, i have linked to several throughout this entire thread, close to 20 or more. I could keep linking to more and more but in the interest of time I chose a few. It doesn’t matter though, you’ll just claim they are photoshopped or part of some governmental conspiracy to hide the truth that in fact there were no planes.

you are never going to accept the truth, no matter how many times it is shown to you and explained to you by people that DO understand how these structures work.

Have you heard of Occam’s Razor??

How do the two competing theories measure up to this well respected theorem.

Which theory is less complicated and thus more likely to be closer to the truth Winston?

A conspiracy involving thousands of people across many different professions and walks of life and being able to keep it quiet for 8 years and counting?

Or

A conspiracy involving a few well funded and determined religious fanatics, totaling no more than around 25 people? Plus this group is on video tape and written statements going into detail how they pulled it off and praising Allah for his holy guidance.

Which theory applies to Occam’s Razor the most?

can you at least answer THAT question about your own theory?

Shadow I don’t feel ridiculed, but if you think otherwise that’s fine,it’s better than being stalked.

“Missiles disguised as 767 passenger jets?” maybe you’re onto something.

“Winston, i have linked to several throughout this entire thread, close to 20 or more. I could keep linking to more and more but in the interest of time I chose a few.”
You havn’t you’ve linked me to a handfull of photos that have been around for years, some of those parts don’t even belong to a 767.

“Which theory is less complicated and thus more likely to be closer to the truth Winston?”
So your idea of the truth is the more simpler theory, well it is for a simpleton like you.

If you’d bother to look into the 9/11 scenarios I’ve posted, you’d see that very few people needed to be involved.

Occams razor would best apply to my theory.
When the impossible (science/ Physics) has been eliminated, we are left with the improbable – faked videos, erroneous eye witness statements,& no Boeing passenger jets etc.

Oh the trolls are hungry today, mmm I have some delicious trolly treats for my precious chubby trolls.

shadow said “The towers collapsed following simple physical laws.” oh really? Who could have foreseen or even considered an aeroplane crashing into a very tall building? …that never happens…

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/history/q0311.shtml

and how unusual that an aircraft full of fuel would burn! or a building for that matter, no engineer worth his salt would have taken that into account would they?

As to how they wired explosives up to not be noticed well if I was doing it I would use an ethernet type computer controlled system and use internet/ethernet upgrades to disguise this installation. Pure speculation on my behalf. As for rigging the explosives, your premise that “how could it be kept secret for so long” is far from being rock solid. If I had a team of well rewarded explosives experts and a team of unskilled workers who follow instructions to do the grunt work who need not even know what they are doing, they could be told its for monitoring fires. The team of pros would have to be of Straussian persuasion, who believed what they were doing was for the “good of the country” For more info on this little turd blossom refer to Adam Curtis’ informative , yet mainstream docco ‘The power of nightmares’

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE3b2o9Xfks

The unskilled grunts and other low level, compartmentalised minions, I would have summoned to the WTC building on the morning of September 11 2001.
Completely feasible.

Then I’d hire an army of muppets to spam the hell out of any blog who talked about it. If that failed you would move onto harsher tactics.

YOU also claim on page 74 of this in-depth report that your government could not even run a post office or health care system etc, this is because these services are for you slaves and are not important to them, why would they spend your tax money on you?
Plus it would only be a very small group of the govt involved, you know who too. No not bush, he most likely thinks his dad’s friends son actually did it.

NOW, the following are a short list of MANY people who want what I and many of your fellow country men want.

A new investigation into 911

Senator Max Cleland – Former member of the 9/11 Commission, resigned December 2003. U.S. Senator from Georgia 1996-2002. Currently serves on the board of directors of the Export-Import Bank of the United States. Administrator of U.S. Veterans Administration 1977-1981. Awarded Silver Star and Bronze Star for U.S. Army bravery in Viet Nam. Triple amputee from war injuries.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2003/11/13/911_panel_to_get_access_to_withheld_data/

Louis Freeh – Director of FBI, 1993-2001. Former U.S. District Court Judge for Southern District of New York, appointed by President George H.W. Bush. Former Deputy United States Attorney in New York. Former FBI agent. Former officer in United States Army.

General Albert Stubblebine, U.S. Army (ret) – Commanding General of Army Intelligence and Security Command (INSCOM), 1981 – 1984. Also commanded U.S. Army’s Intelligence Center. Former head of Imagery Interpretation for Scientific and Technical Intelligence. 32-year Army career. Inducted into the Military Intelligence Hall of Fame in 1990.

Col. Robert Bowman, PhD, U.S. Air Force (ret) – Director of Advanced Space Programs Development under Presidents Ford and Carter. Air Force fighter pilot, over 100 combat missions. PhD in Aeronautics, Nuclear Engineering.

Raymond L. McGovern – Former Chairman, National Intelligence Estimates, CIA. Responsible for President’s Daily Brief (PDB) for Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush. 27-year CIA veteran. Former U.S. Army Intelligence Officer.

Francesco Cossiga – President of Italy, 1985-1992. Also served as Former Prime Minister, Undersecretary for Defense, and President of the Italian Senate.

Col. George Nelson, U.S. Air Force (ret) – Former U.S. Air Force aircraft accident investigator and airplane parts authority. 34-year Air Force career.

Col. Ronald D. Ray, U.S. Marine Corps (ret) – Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense during Reagan Administration. Highly decorated Vietnam veteran (two Silver Stars, a Bronze Star and a Purple Heart). Appointed by President George H.W. Bush to serve on American Battle Monuments Commission. From 1990 to 1994, served as Military Historian and Deputy Director of Field Operations for U.S. Marine Corps Historical Center, Washington, D.C.

Rep. Curt Weldon – Ten-term Republican Congressman from Pennsylvania. House Armed Services Committee Vice Chairman. Homeland Security Committee Vice Chairman.

Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer, U.S. Army (ret) – Former Military Intelligence Officer, Defense Intelligence Agency. Member of Able Danger effort to target Al Qaeda’s global structure. Former Chief of the Army’s HUMINT [Human Intelligence] program. Awarded the Bronze Star for bravery for the first of his two combat tours to Afghanistan. 23-year military intelligence career.

Lt. Col. Karen Kwiatkowski, PhD, U.S. Air Force (ret) – Former Political-Military Affairs Officer in the Office of the Secretary of Defense. Staff Member, Office of Director of the National Security Agency. 20-year Air Force veteran.

Paul Craig Roberts, PhD – Assistant Secretary of the U.S. Treasury under Ronald Reagan. “Father of Reaganomics.” Former Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal. Currently Chairman of the Institute for Political Economy and Research Fellow at the Independent Institute.

Morgan Reynolds, PhD – Chief Economist, Department of Labor under George W. Bush 2001-2002. Former Director of the Criminal Justice Center at the National Center for Policy Analysis. Professor Emeritus, Texas A&M University.

Catherine Austin Fitts – Assistant Secretary of Housing under George H.W. Bush. Former Managing Director of Wall Street investment bank, Dillon, Read & Co.

Major Scott Ritter, U.S. Marine Corps – Former Marine Corps Intelligence Officer and Chief Weapons Inspector for the United Nations Special Commission in Iraq 1991-1998.

Paul Hellyer – Former Minister of National Defense of Canada. Former Deputy Prime Minister. Former Member of House of Commons.
Andreas von Buelow, PhD – Former State Secretary of the Federal Ministry of Defense of West Germany. Former Minister of Research and Technology. Member of Bundestag (Parliament) 1969-1994.

Michael Meacher – Former Under Secretary for Industry, Under Secretary for Health and Social Security, Minister of Environment, and Member of the House of Commons (UK).

General Leonid Ivashov – Joint Chief of Staff of Russian Armies on 9/11/2001. Chief of Department for General Affairs in Soviet Union’s Ministry of Defense. Chief of Military Cooperation Department at Russian Federation’s Ministry of Defense. Secretary of Council of Defense Ministers of Community of Independant States (CIS).
Mohamed Hassanein Heikal – Former Foreign Minister of Egypt. Adviser to Egyptian Presidents Nasser and Sadat. Renowned Journalist and Editor.

William Christison – Former National Intelligence Officer and Director of the CIA’s Office of Regional and Political Analysis. 29-year CIA veteran.

Melvin A. Goodman – Senior Analyst, Bureau of Intelligence and Research, State Department, 1974-1976. Former Division Chief and Senior Analyst, Office of Soviet Affairs, CIA,1976 – 1986. Professor of International Security, National War College 1986-2004. Currently Senior Fellow, Center for International Policy and Adjunct Professor of International Relations, Johns Hopkins University. Author or co-author of five books on international relations.

Robert Baer – Former CIA Case Officer, Specialist in Middle East, Directorate of Operations. Awarded Career Intelligence Medal. 21-year CIA veteran. Author of two nonfiction books about CIA operations, See No Evil and Sleeping with the Devil

Edward L. Peck – Deputy Director of the White House Task Force on Terrorism under Ronald Reagan. Former Deputy Coordinator, Covert Intelligence Programs at the State Department. U.S. Ambassador and Chief of Mission to Iraq (1977-80). 32-year veteran of the Foreign Service.

Morton Goulder – Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence and Warning under Presidents Nixon, Ford, and Carter (1973-77). Founder of Sanders Associates.

Fred Burks – Former State Department Interpreter for Presidents George W. Bush and Bill Clinton, Vice Presidents Dick Cheney and Al Gore, Secretaries of State Colin Powell and Madeleine Albright. 18-year State Department career.

Major Douglas Rokke, PhD, U.S. Army (ret) – Former Director U.S. Army Depleted Uranium Project.

Capt. Russ Wittenberg, U.S. Air Force – Former Air Force fighter pilot, over 100 combat missions. Commercial pilot for Pan Am and United Airlines for 35 years. Had previously flown the actual two United airplanes that were hijacked on 9/11.

Barbara Honegger – Senior Military Affairs Journalist at the Naval Postgraduate School (1995 – present). White House Policy Analyst and Special Assistant to the Assistant to President Ronald Reagan (1981-83).

Capt. Gregory M. Zeigler, PhD, U.S. Army – Former U.S. Army Intelligence Officer

Sibel D. Edmonds – Former Language Translation Specialist, FBI. Performed translations for counterterrorism, counterintelligence operations. 9/11 Commission Witness
.
Bogdan Dzakovic – 14-year Counterterrorism expert, Security Division of Federal Aviation Administration (FAA). Team Leader of FAA’s Red (Terrorism) Team. Former Team Leader in Federal Air Marshal program. Former Coast Guard officer. Witness for 9/11 Commission.

from
http://www.WantToKnow.info/officialsquestion911commissionreport

how about

http://www.examiner.com/x-6495-US-Intelligence-Examiner~y2009m9d2-911-Commission-Report-questioned-by-100-professors

not to mention the 800 engineers who are actual engineers (unlike you hehe)

http://www.ae911truth.org/

You are looking at a wheel nut and you think it is everything, you have learned many facts about this wheel nut but this wheel nut is attached to a wheel, and this wheel is the right front wheel of this…

http://www.mrupp.info/Photos/2005-Australia/katherine_roadtrain.jpg

No more trolly treats for you from me my chubby friend.

Oh and Gary, so nice of you to weigh in on the subject, I was starting to think, by your notable absence, that your mail-order Russian child bride had finally arrived in the mail and you were otherwise occupied.

Since your arrogant arrival on the scene, Gary’s shadow, you have tried to manipulate the discussion, bait readers (so that you could call us “liars”), bully anyone presenting factual information, and attempt to set the rules here.

Trolls do not set the rules here… got that bozo.

If you want to go to a site where your propaganda will be welcome: go to Gary’s BS based medicine site, meet your soul mate there and enjoy yourselves ridiculing people who know the truth and are not afraid to speak out using their real names.

You are a complete fraud; just like Gary.

Without a brain cell of independent thought, both of you (just like monkeys in a zoo) simply repeat back to us what we call you.

You two are the clowns here.

And you are in no position to dictate to any of us how we should debate or what sites we can or cannot link to.

Complete frauds like you and Gary do NOT call the shots here.

You two imbeciles are at an alternative website, if you don’t like what you read here then find another site.

I am not letting you dictate to me what sites I can reference; and neither is any other regular reader of this site going to put up with what you are doing here.

Once again, you are a no credibility buffoon pounding your chest, using terms against us that we have already used to describe you; and you are standing there butt naked holding your cheney!

You and Gary are about the most pathetic and laughable two clowns that I have ever seen cluttering a website with the stupidity you two idiots post here.

Neither of you have real names that you can pin to your BS to give it some measure of believability.

Both of you deserve to be laughed off the Internet.

Just because you have ample time to jerk readers around for 10+ hours in a day… doesn’t make you right. It does point to the fact, however, that you are being paid for the time you spend ridiculing everything said at this site exposing the ridiculous 9/11 fabrication spun by the government.

Your smugness + the over abundance of time you have to play your games here adds up to government paid stooge.

And, stooge, you don’t make the rules here.

So if you don’t like the sites we link to; don’t let the door hit you in the ass on your way to a site where your drivel would be accepted as wisdom. And take the resident imposter with you.

Ha ha Philip. Wrong again. 1. I’m not paid to ridicule you, it is just a hobby for me. 2. My name is Gary. You must be even more stupid than I thought if you hadn’t figured that out by now.

Regards
Gary

PS Have a look at this:

“Debunking the 9/11 Myths: Special Report
Popular Mechanics examines the evidence and consults the experts to refute the most persistent conspiracy theories of September 11. ”

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html?page=6

Well said Philip. Couldn’t agree more.

Clare’s stalker sure is a disgusting low grade creep if ever I saw one.

Interesting that the small piece I posted about Silverstein from the debunking of the Popular Mechanics hitpiece brought such a vitriolic attack – must have hit a nerve eh.

You really should keep up troll this was posted yesterday.

Popular Mechanics’ Assault on 9/11 Truth debunked

by Jim Hoffman

http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/gopm/index.html

“1. I’m not paid to ridicule you, it is just a hobby for me”

Boy doesn’t that comment tell you everything you need to know about Gary the troll.

I think you should take Lombeer’s advice and get yourself a Russian bride.

The troll’s authority in a nutshell:

“The Hearst-owned Popular Mechanics magazine takes aim at the 9/11 Truth Movement (without ever acknowledging it by that name) with a cover story in its March 2005 edition. Sandwiched between ads and features for monster trucks, NASCAR paraphernalia, and off-road racing are twelve dense and brilliantly designed pages purporting to debunk the myths of 9/11.”

Yes, Popular Mechanics is an impressive place to find an “in depth study” of 9/11 Truth claims.

Thank you, Lorraine, for the link, and also for the compliment regarding my post.

At another site exposing the Popular Mechanics “hit piece” I found this interesting e-mail correspondence that was included in the article.
___________________________________

In an email message to John Kaminski (cc’d to a mailing list) sent in November 2003 Walter Burien wrote:

John:
I was a tenant at WTC1 in 1979-81.

The only concern anyone had 20 years ago was a hijacked plane being flown into the towers.

Here is the “Key” to unlock the door: The extensive flight logs for 20 years from the 3 military bases in the area and Port Authority responding to air threats is exemplary.

Thousands of sorties run in response to threats, practice runs, false alarms, done weekly or daily over 20 years. Back in the late seventies the NY Post ran an article about the Port Authority bragging how their manned 24/7 response helicopter would be in the air within 4 minutes of an alert call going out per possible air threat to the WTC towers.

There is [only] one occasion that I am aware of, or in most probabilities that any one else is aware of, in this exemplary record of response to air threats covering a period of over twenty years that the intercepts did not launch and were told to stand down, after going on high alert within a minute or two of the threat, not from just one threat but then two. That date was 9/11/01.

This in itself is the most condemning fact of them all when that 20 year record is brought to light. The motive then becomes crystal clear in review of that exemplary response record to threats from the air against the WTC towers.

No off course or negligent air craft came close. They were always intercepted and told to change their course or they would be blown out of the sky. It was a no fly zone and this happened to many pilots that intentionally or unintentionally flew too close to the WTC towers over those 20 years.

http://tinyurl.com/8tlzs
__________________________________
From your post at 9:30 am, Lorraine:

“Boy doesn’t that comment tell you everything you need to know about Gary the troll.”

Yes, Lorraine, just what we have been saying for months now about his true purpose here.

He is one disturbed puppet.

My true purpose is to waste as much of your time in pointless debate so you spend less time spreading your dangerous anti-vaccination lies. I am doing quite well judging by the screeds of nonsense you post attacking me personally.

Regards
Gary

And your pointless debate amounts to “get vaccinated blah blah blah” X 10000000

Really convincing when you compare it to the evidence. Boy it’s hard to work out who our readers might believe.

Hey Lorraine, you be pleased to know that Richard Gage will be speaking in Wellington in November.
If you don’t already know.

City/State: Wellington, NZ
Date: Sat, Nov 21, 2009
Time: 2:00PM
Topic: 9/11: Blueprint for Truth – The Architecture of Destruction
Speaker: Richard Gage, AIA
Venue: Museum of New Zealand
Location: 55 Cable Street
Wellington, New Zealand
Event:Soundings Theater, Te Papa Tongarewa

=======================

And Gary, you need a new hobby.
when this one leaves you… try
http://www.russianbrides.com
Go for one of the Chernobyl ones who knows what special powers they might have. Plus less likely to leave you. Double bonus!!

Another site for the shadow government minion, Gary the troll.

He better click on the link quick before his mates take the story down.

http://sciencebasedmedicine.info/articles/Trolls-With-Small-Penises-and-Big-Egos-Invade-Patriot-Websites-Deriding-9/11-Truth.pdf

I gave Shadow a simple challenge, but (s)he has not answered it. Would (s)he be exploring the NIST report? If this is her/his first try, this exercise may understandably take some time.

More worrisome is that this discussion’s truth-seekers don’t seem to see where my question was going. May I formulate it to them? Here is goes:
* The U.S. National Institute of Standards and Technology came up with a 10,000 page final report on the collapse of the twin towers.
* How many of these pages are devoted to the actual analysis of the collapse?

Gentle warning: the question has a trick

Shadow has a point: why bother with truth sites when the official investigation report shouts “conspiracy” itself?

Come on, folks; How many pages? If you don’t know, take a guess and I’ll walk you towards the answer.

Love,

Dan, zero pages?

“Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.” Boswell:

Hi Lombeer

Yes I saw that Richard Gage was coming to Wellington. I have seen the presentation before on DVD but I think I might still go.

You should go, Lorraine, it is a good place to meet people who are not afraid to face the truth about what’s happening.

Also, to support someone coming to New Zealand to teach others the truth about September 11th.

Great event to hand out material at. Information exposing the official story; and even some articles detailing the dangers of vaccination can be placed on cars in the area.

Here is a presentation (if you haven’t already seen it) that you will not want to miss. One of those items that I copied and pasted to a special list for future use.

Answers to Objections and Questions – Steven E. Jones – Controlled Demolition 101

http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/Media/Jones_ppt/LAJun24_Jones.pdf

That’s a good idea Philip about handing out brochures at the event on other subjects.

I really do want to network with people down here, so this event as you say could be a great opportunity. It is important that we get in behind people like Richard Gage as I am sure based on my recent experience that he must get intimidated and put himself at risk doing this.

Thank-you for the link I will look forward to watching the presentation.

It is on at 2PM. Will you be able to get time off work Lorraine?

Oh I forgot, no one will employ you. Sorry.

You should make the trip, Gary – and bring your wireless laptop with you so that – no matter where you are – you can still be an online pointless douchebag.

Geeze Gary you really must learn to READ. Richard Gage is speaking on the 21st of November which (if you bothered to check) is a SATURDAY.

Gary Trolly poley pants said
““Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.” Boswell:”
That was Boswell quoting Samuel Johnson Gawee.
Throws your quoting skills into a new light.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Samuel_Johnson#The_Patriot_.281774.29

“Boswell’s full mention of this statement reads:
Patriotism having become one of our topicks, Johnson suddenly uttered, in a strong determined tone, an apophthegm, at which many will start: “Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.” But let it be considered, that he did not mean a real and generous love of our country, but that pretended patriotism which so many, in all ages and countries, have made a cloak of self-interest.”

Yet again another GaweeTroll waste of time.
What else Gawee? what else have you misrepresented?

Scott, I don’t have a laptop.
Lorraine, so you don’t work at MacDonalds on Saturdays?
Lombeer, I am happy to have wasted your time…it’s a major part of my little hobby.

“One tactic used by conspiracy theorists that has frustrated engineers is their use of a straw man argument, which is where you repeat your opponent’s position and carefully reframe it to be weaker and obviously false. Here, the conspiracy theorists have reframed the engineers’ position as stating that the World Trade Center fire melted the steel. This is not true, no such claim has been made, as actual melting was neither necessary for the collapse nor possible with the amount of heat that was available.”

http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4054

Regards
Gary

Speaking of mc donalds Gary, you could take your ‘wife’ Olga there on sunday, as a special treat. You know, let her out of the dungeon for the day, lord knows you need to get out more… you could buy her a happy meal

It’s good to hear that you will be attending the event, Lorraine. Once you are there, and see the truth going out to those who likewise feel they should be there, you will be glad you did. It is so refreshing to meet likeminded people with what the Bible calls “a love for the truth.”

You will find many in attendance to be very open to the truth about other subjects as well. If approached in the right manner, I find many of my fellow Americans willing to discuss serious issues that the Financial Elite’s media twist to fit their agenda. Here we have the advantage of the distrust that so many in this nation already have for the mainstream media: especially since September 11th.

“Networking with people” is exactly what I was getting at, Lorraine. The frustration experienced when dealing with certain braindead “Illuminati puppets” and patsies, can be offset considerably by the joy of meeting people who are hungry for more good information. What you accomplish, is just the opposite of what the globalist’s desire.

One of their goals, as we can all clearly see here: is to divide and conquer the people they desire to rule over.

To reach this goal, they often send in their clowns to sow misinformation on Internet discussion threads such as these at Uncensored. These clowns sent in cannot debate the issues without dismissing our sources of information and constantly shifting reader’s attention away from the many key issues brought up by those who oppose their agenda to tear down sites like this one. When these clowns are thoroughly exposed as the agent provocateurs that most of them are, they either leave the website altogether; retreat back into the shadows for a while; or return with a new phony name, to deceive reader’s that have made a quality decision not to waste any more time with them. I am convinced that “alex search” is an example of someone that returned using a phony name when the game he was playing using his other phony name [squeaky?] was discovered. “Squeaky” wasted reader’s time on a steady basis until I began posting at this site shining a light on these timewasters and what their true purpose is. Cockroaches scatter when the light is turned on where they are operating. It’s just the nature of a cockroach. They, like trolls, are looking for a snack. If crumbs are left on a kitchen counter it can invite any number of insects, almost like a welcome mat. These cockroaches that are trying to destroy this website should have been crushed by the weight of truth presented here by now; but they cunningly do not read most of the articles. In their state of willful ignorance, they strike out at everyone who desires to shine a light on their activity. Leave crumbs for these cockroaches and they will keep coming back. If nobody responds to their adolescent attacks on the truth presented here: they will appear as the timewasting buffoons that they are. Our silence will do more to expose this Neanderthal [troll] than anything we could possibly say.

Several years ago, I learned of a meeting that was going to be held in Falmouth, Maine. It was advertised during a local radio talk show that I used to listen to.

Many well-known individuals were invited to speak at a private home to expose the globalist agenda.

It was during a time in my life when I was taking a rest from this kind of information as far as going to events was concerned. However, I felt strongly convicted that with the views I hold it was essential that I attend the meeting; if, for no other reason than to *support* the gracious lady who opened up her extraordinary home to the public; and also show appreciation towards the many fine speakers that lectured that day. I was not there long when I realized that not going would have been a big mistake.

Thanks to the kind invitation of Mary Alice Davis, I was able to spend a morning and afternoon listening to some of the finest speakers anyone could hear giving unforgettable presentations that showed clearly the dangerous direction our country was headed in. These were very professional as well as chilling lectures; not the baby food that so many of our detractors are satisfied with.

End of part 1

You are so paranoid Philip. You think that anyone who takes the time to disagree with your weird notions is ‘part of the conspiracy’. There is no point in arguing with you. There is no point in presenting you with contrary information because you will just dismiss it as ‘part of the conspiracy’.
So I will just have to continue to post links for those open minded people who may wander here by mistake, and continue to ridicule you and your like minded nut jobs.

“Dr. Mercola’s on to us! Maybe he saw the latest batch of H1N1 vaccine delivered in one of our unmarked black helicopters. We should really be more careful.”

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=851

Regards
Gary

Hey, you smirking zombie, nobody is trying to reason with you, you’ve been whacked!

“They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it’s not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.”-Terry Pratchett

“Our silence will do more to expose this Neanderthal [troll] than anything we could possibly say.”

OK Phil, practise what you preach. Shut up.

Now this is starting to be worrisome. How can’t truth-seeker provide an educated guess as to how many of the 10,000 or so pages of the U.S. National Institute of Standards and Technology treat the analysis of the collapse.

And please don’t wait for Gage’s conference to ask him the question. That’s too easy!

Then again, Shadow, who appears to trust the integrity of NIST’s investigation, has been strangely silent on this point. The answer is not hard, though.

Love,

Here is the link to the report Dan is talking about. Lets all read it before shadow returns.

http://wtc.nist.gov/

…and of course so we can answer Dan’s question too.

“we originally had thought there was like an internal detonation explosives because it went in succession, boom, boom, boom, boom, and then the tower came down.”

Ed Cachia — Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Engine 53]
___________________________________

“You see three explosions and then the whole thing coming down.”

Frank Campagna — Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Ladder 11]
___________________________________

Notice:

First they hear / see the explosions, then the tower collapses.

It looks like the lovers of truth have won the whole debate- game, set and match; regardless of the shame that we all expect will continually foam out from the troubled sea of loveless truth-hating creatures ostensibly from the left, right or middle. As it’s written: “Without love I am NOTHING.”
In love, I trust,
Bruce

Just when you conspiracy nuts think you’ve dodged another bullet…those evil disinformation agents reappear.

I see none of you have addressed or tried to explain how any of your theories could have been pulled off without anyone finding out ahead of time.

Just more reiteration of the same theories with no practical explanation of how any of it was actually accomplished.

The best answer I’ve heard so far was from Lorraine that said…The Jews did it…. I mean if that isn’t hard hitting investigative work from this admitted PI…what is??

The Jews did it, is her working theory of HOW it was pulled off.

I wasn’t aware that the word Jew was a verb.

You people care to try your luck again?? Care to explain how explosives were placed on enough columns in all three buildings and yet no one saw any of it?

How about all the plane debris found at both sites yet your claim they found no debris? Not all of those photographs from that many sources could possibly be faked. Sure SOME could theoretically been altered..but not enough to make a difference…the Men in Black simply aren’t THAT powerful…so how do you explain your contention of no airplane wreckage at the crash sites?

How do you explain where all the people on those planes went if there weren’t any planes? Are all of their families part of the conspiracy too? How did the Men in Black fake all those deaths, and hire enough actors to play grieving friends and families of the “victims”…Can you explain at all how that was pulled off??

You people weave a wonderful tapestry, it has pretty colors , and really cool designs and such…but when you start to pull on the threads to test the durability of the fabric…the entire thing begins to fall apart.

None of you can explain the how of your theories…you just have this theory and you believe it to be true because ….you just do..you are operating on what is called faith. I know you don’t see it that way but it is faith you have. For whatever personal reasons you have you make leaps of faith to connect facts. Some of you hate the government so that clouds it, some believe in little green men and that clouds your judgement, some of you have seen way too many movies, you all have your varied reasons for your faith …but that is all it is , faith…nothing more.

Unless you’d care to explain how any aspect of your entire theory could have been pulled off….and “The Jews Did It” is not an acceptable answer.

Carry on

As Richard Dawkins said, “Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence. ”

The ‘truthers’ conspiracy theories have even less evidence behind them than the Christian resurrection theory. Both theories are just faith based.

Shadow is back and demolishing the “the Jews did 9/11″ theory. But we are still waiting for her/him to review NIST’s final report on the collapse of the twin towers with her/his finding of how many of its 10,000 pages explain the actual collapse.

By the way, truth-seekers are not faring any better. They are not waiting for Gage to give them his answer, are they?

Per Shadow’s point, why inform yourselves on 9/11 Truth sites when the official documents shout “conspiracy?”

Love,

Dan, I’ve explained how the towers were taken down, I’ve commented on the NIST report.

The onus is on the conspiracy nuts to explain how their theory could have been accomplished.

It’s easy to say, X did it

But for the theory to hold any weight you have to explain the HOW.

None of them has yet explained how all the explosives needed to pull this off were planted and no one saw.

None of them have explained where all the people on those supposedly nonexistent planes went

The list goes on and on.

I can explain in detail how these towers fell

The best any of them have done to “prove” their theory is to claim “the jews did it”

The “official” documents as you put it are backed up by decades upon decades of scientific principles. The explanations for how they collapsed can be explained with science and the methods repeated in controlled experiments.

The truthers have “the jews did it” as their proof.

Shadow has acknowledged the existence of my question. This is progress. (S)he claims that (s)he does not have to answer it. (S)he reminds us that (s)he has commented on NIST’s report. These are fine points.

But won’t (s)he take the time to review the report one more time and come back with an answer? My question is not difficult, is it? Certainly much easier than fine-tuning the model of an 767’s turbine…

Love,

Dan

I refer you to this thread where I answered your questions.

I’m sorry if you are too stupid to read, that is not my fault.

Try again.

One more thing “Dan”

None of you nutjobs can answer the how of your theory.

None of you have even tried to explain how your theory could have come to pass.

You simply accept that it is true and ignore anything contrary to your faith.

You should really look into religion, at least when you have that faith you get something positive out of it.

Care to explain how they set all those explosives and no one saw them do it?

It’s your theory, not mine.

How about the stated theory on this thread that there were no planes that crashed into the buildings….where did all the people on those planes go Dan?

None of you can even attempt to answer those questions. Instead you want to pick apart the NIST report?? You want to throw up a straw man in a futile attempt to deflect from the fact you can’t support your own theories.

Dan, you’re just making a larger fool of yourself and your cause.

One last thing “Dan”

I’ve explained , in detail, how the towers collapsed.

I don’t need an NIST report to tell me what my experience already knows.

Try to defend your theory by explaining the mechanisms by which it was accomplished….if you can.

“Shadow has a point: why bother with truth sites when the official investigation report shouts “conspiracy” itself?
Come on, folks; How many pages? If you don’t know, take a guess and I’ll walk you towards the answer.
Love,
Posted by Dan Noel | September 16, 2009, 3:51 am

Dan, zero pages?
Posted by lombeer | September 16, 2009, 9:05 am”

Zero was my guess then Dan. I have not read the report, but its a guess, as per the game.
Walk us towards the answer, thats what we are here for, because we don’t believe the official story, like certain members of the actual 911 commission.

Hey ! I’ve just had a great idea! we should have another 911 investigation, a real one, that would be great! but this time we can make Rummy and Dick take lie detector tests and testify under oath. I can’t wait.
I’d love to see the grainy cell phone footage of Rummy and Dick swinging from the gallows, after a fair and transparent trial of course.

Hey lombeer

How about explaining how your theory came to pass.

Explain how they set the explosives in all three buildings and no one saw them do it.

Explain where all the people went if there were no planes that hit the towers or the Pentagon.

Come on lombeer…these questions are going to be asked and will need to be explained in any complete investigation.

So what is your working theory of how the explosive aspect of your theory was pulled off?

Did they mind meld with all the people that worked in the buildings and convinced them all the drywall removed from the columns and the large amounts of explosives that were being strapped to the columns, along with the hundreds of feet of wire and detonation cord were all in their imagination??

Or did they use invisible explosives and wires?

Was everyone in the buildings actually in on the conspiracy and that’s how they were able to attach explosives to dozens of columns in three buildings and across several floors?

Please explain how they were able to pull off this part of your theory lombeer.

THEN you might have a case to reopen the investigation.

What about the planes everyone saw hit the towers? Did we all imagine them? What about the people that were on those planes lombeer? Where did they go? What about their grieving families lombeer? Are they in on it too?

Where are the people on the planes you and others say didn’t exist?

Can you explain ANY aspect of how your theory could have been accomplished without it being noticed lombeer?

“The Jews Did It” is not a working explanation of how it was accomplished….unless you can show me where the word Jew is a verb

“Explain where all the people went if there were no planes that hit the towers or the Pentagon”

Why don’t you explain where all the plane wreckage went. Including Shanksville, 4 crashes no wreckage.

Shads, you are a one trick pony. Same ole’ stuff over and over again… oh no… wait, a new trick now you are playing the old Anti-Semitic card, great move shads, thats bound to shut this thread down, I mean, thats what you are here for, right?
You are here to censor using ridicule and guilt, right?
To shut down freedom of speech, right?

The chance of me being called to testify at the new 911 commission (great idea, btw) is slim.
You on the other hand, what with you being ‘the most qualified man in the world’ you are bound to be called to testify.
It’ll be great, you can pull out your big scrap book and quote from popular mechanics, thats how you “explained” building 7 collapsing, right?
Will they accept submissions written in crayon though, I wonder.

29 Structural & Civil
Engineers Cite Evidence for
Controlled Explosive
Demolition in Collapses of All
3 WTC High-Rises on 9/11

More than 700 architects and engineers have joined call for new investigation, faulting official collapse reports.

The symmetry of collapse struck Paul Mason, a structural engineer in Melbourne, Australia, and
Dennis Kollar, P.E. (licensed Professional Engineer in Wisconsin). Kollar was troubled by the collapses’ “totality and uniformity” and the fact that the mass of debris remained centered on the building core all the way down. The towers should have fallen “with increasing eccentricity as the
collapse progressed,” writes
Howard Pasternack, P.E.

These systematic collapses required that many structural
connections not only fail “nearly simultaneously,” but also “in sequential order,” wrote Frank Cullinan, P.E., who designs bridges in Northern California. That’s “impossible from asymmetrical impact loading and …
small, short-duration fires.”

http://www.ae911truth.org/downloads/29_Structural-Civil_Engineers_2009-06-17.pdf

“It is better to remain silent and have others think you’re a fool, than to argue with one and remove all doubt.”

Trying to reason with the troll’s shadow is a complete waste of time.
He / she should be ignored.

My question is starting to ripple through this discussion.

Lombeer: nice try! Zero out of ten thousand pages in the National Institute of Standards and Technology’s final report on the collapse of the twin towers would be dedicated to the analysis of the collapse. Guess what? The real answer is higher than zero. You are not surprised, are you?

Shadow correctly claims that (s)he is under no obligation to answer my question, but it would boost her/his credibility. (S)he claims that (s)he doesn’t need to read NIST’s report to fully understand how the towers fell, but this is certainly not NIST’s opinion. They picked up the ball of an incomplete analysis by other experts, including the Federal Emergency Management Agency. It took a team of their engineers years of hard work and millions of dollars to get their 10K pages out, complete with complex models, new concepts of structural engineering analysis, lots of fine-tuning, and many assumptions. Since the official experts had to get through all this trouble to find what is clear to Shadow, somebody must have screwed up: either NIST badly wasted their time and money and missed a much simpler explanation, or Shadow’s analysis is mostly hot air, or both.

Love,

Since the Intel operative trotted his / her “The Jews Did It” statement out several times; the following excerpts from journalist Christopher Bollyn should be of interest to readers:

…It was about 3 a.m. on September 11 when we finally found an affordable hotel room just inside the state of Maryland on Interstate 95. The kids woke up and jumped on the beds and then we all fell asleep about a half-hour later.

I woke up about 8:30 a.m. and went down to the lobby for a cup of coffee. The television was on in the breakfast area reporting that a plane had struck the North Tower of the World Trade Center in Manhattan. I grabbed some pastries and coffee and hurried back to the room and turned the television onto the news channel…

Our route from Pennsylvania to Chicago took us near the site in Shanksville where Flight 93 supposedly crashed, but I had no desire to go to the scene of the disaster. We stopped for lunch in a small town. The diner was full of people but nobody was talking. The people sat quietly, as if mesmerized, listening to the news on the radio.

Indications of Israeli Involvement

We listened to the radio as we drove across Pennsylvania. It was a beautiful sunny day with a bright blue sky. About noon I heard a news report that five “Middle Eastern” men had been seen in New Jersey videotaping and celebrating the destruction of the World Trade Center.

“They’re probably Israelis,” I told Helje. For millions of Americans who automatically associate “Middle Eastern” with Arab, this news report planted the idea in their minds that Arabs from the Middle East were behind the terror attacks on New York and Washington.

This line of thinking quickly became the media’s only acceptable version of events and although it has still not been proven, it has become the official version of 9-11.

The first indication that the attack on the World Trade Center was an elaborate “false flag” operation came with the arrest of the five men on the New Jersey side of the Hudson River. These men, described as “Middle Eastern” in the first media reports, were later identified as Israelis. A false flag operation is a crime which is designed and carried out so that another party or nation is blamed.

That the five jubilant Middle Eastern men, who had photographed themselves smiling and celebrating with the burning World Trade Center in the background, were indeed Israelis (namely Sivan and Paul Kurzberg, Oded Ellner, Omer Marmari, and Yaron Schmuel) and that two of them were known to U.S. law enforcement and intelligence agencies as agents of Israeli intelligence, was ignored by the mass media.

The men had been observed taking video or photos of themselves with the World Trade Center burning in the background. Sivan Kurzberg told the police that the men had been driving in their van in the immediate vicinity of the towers that morning. He was photographed flicking a lighter with the burning towers behind him.

A woman who had observed the jubilant Israelis said she was struck by the expressions on the men’s faces. “They were like happy, you know,” she said. “They didn’t look shocked to me. I thought it was very strange.”

When they were arrested, Sivan, the driver of the van, told the police, “We are Israeli. We are not your problem. Your problems are our problems. The Palestinians are the problem.”

The story of the five men celebrating the destruction of the Twin Towers was dropped from the national news when it became known that they were not Arabs or Muslims from the Middle East, but Jews from Israel.

The noteworthy fact that these men, who clearly had prior knowledge of the attacks, were in fact Israelis, and that they had been arrested at gunpoint *with box cutter knives, multiple passports, and thousands of dollars in cash in a van that tested positive for explosives* was only reported by Paolo Lima in a local New Jersey newspaper, the Bergen Record, the following day.

This important and timely information, however, was completely ignored by The New York Times and the other national mass media outlets based across the river in New York City.

I discussed the pertinent details with Lima by phone, and this important and suppressed story became the subject of my first article about 9-11. I realized then, during the first week after 9-11, that the mainstream news media was ignoring and covering up important information and evidence about the terrorist attacks.

There would be, for example, no reporting in the mainstream media of Israeli involvement or prior knowledge of the attacks. And this was just the beginning of the censorship the controlled media was to impose on the events of 9-11.

The possibility that these men could be Israeli intelligence agents involved in a spectacular “false flag” terror attack was discussed in my article that went to print in the American Free Press on September 20, 2001. It was the only newspaper in the United States where such thoughts could openly be expressed.

Months later, Forward, a well known New York-based Jewish newspaper, confirmed that Urban Moving Systems, the Weehawken, New Jersey-based “moving” company that the men worked for, was actually an Israeli intelligence front operation and that at least two of the men, evidently the Kurzberg brothers, were known agents of Mossad, Israel’s military intelligence agency.

Dominic Suter, the Israeli “owner” of the company and a prime suspect, was somehow allowed to flee to Israel after the Federal Bureau of Investigation had initially interviewed him, but before they could interrogate him a second time. He has not been extradited to the United States since.

After being held for 10 weeks, the five Israelis were sent back to Israel on visa violations. Ellner, Marmari, and Schmuel appeared on an Israeli television show, without the Kurzberg brothers, in November 2001.

The three sheepish and suspiciously guilty looking young men admitted on Israeli television that they had prior knowledge of the terror attacks that changed America – and the world. “The fact of the matter is that we come from a country that experiences terror daily,” Oded Ellner (center) said. “Our purpose was to document the event.” The obvious question, “And who gave you that task?” was not asked, at least not openly.

One would think that such a revealing public admission by a suspect, claiming prior knowledge of the terror attack and saying that his purpose “was to document the event” would be extremely newsworthy information in the United States.

Sadly, this was not the case…

http://www.bollyn.com/index.php?id=11261&print=1

The idea of Israeli involvement in September 11th didn’t just fall out of the sky and into the laps of people who are “anti-semitic.” The facts (mostly ignored by the major media) speak for themselves.

As Christopher Bollyn stated: “One would think that such a revealing public admission by a suspect, claiming prior knowledge of the terror attack and saying that his purpose ‘was to document the event’ would be extremely newsworthy information in the United States.”

It should never be forgotten that the “dancing Israelis” were found with:

“box cutter knives, multiple passports, and thousands of dollars in cash in a van that tested positive for explosives”

The morons who want to scream “anti-semitic” should have the courage to read alternative news sources more often.

9-11 TRUTH-DENIERS ARE CRIMINALLY RESPONSIBLE

“As you know, a storm, of righteous indignation from America’s delusional, traitorous and criminal elite has forced White House Adviser Van Jones to resign.

His crime, signing a petition to investigate government involvement in 9-11. (Otherwise, I have no brief for Jones.)

The self-righteous elites naturally feel threatened. By now, they are accomplices in the cover-up of the murder of about 3000 people. By blocking investigation of 9-11, they are criminally responsible and should be prosecuted along with the real perpetrators. They are “accessories after the fact”: meaning they give shelter, aid and comfort to the perps.

The owner of the World Trade Center, Larry Silverstein has admitted he gave the order to “pull” (demolish) the 47-floor WTC-7 building on Sept. 11. It takes weeks to wire a building for demolition.

No one has explained why this building was set for demolition but the twin towers weren’t. Especially since there were hundreds of witnesses who heard demolition explosives going off in the WTC.

What we are witnessing is mass self-delusion and hallucination, both criminal and treasonous, by the nation’s political and chattering classes… How do Americans expect to solve their problems when they won’t even face the truth? Their political and cultural leaders are liars, traitors and murderers?”

9-11 TRUTH-DENIERS ARE CRIMINALLY RESPONSIBLE ~ By: Henry Makow
http://www.etherzone.com/2009/mako090809.shtml

More inane rantings from people that can’t even explain how their theory was actually pulled off.

The only mass delusion going on here is you truthers and your belief that the Men in Black perpetrated 9/11.

How did they set all the explosives without anyone seeing it done? It’s not the sort of thing you can hide from view. It requires a lot of demolition just to gain access to the number of columns needed to take down a building with explosives. Yet none was viewed at all leading up to 9/11…NONE

Did the MIB beam the explosives in at night when no one was looking? I mean if we are going to believe that invisible explosives were placed on the columns then why not believe in Transporter technology right?

Maybe it was the aliens from Area 51? I’m sure they’re pissed at being locked up since 1947, maybe they used their alien technology to blow up the towers.

You see, your 729 engineers do not compare to the 700,000 engineers that have mountains of repeatable experiments and reams of evidence on their side…yet you’d rather believe delusional people than the hard cold facts of the case.

Can any of you explain how the explosives were attached to enough columns , yet no one saw it happen? That’s just ONE aspect of your inane rantings…can you even attempt to explain how that happened?

What about all the plane debris filmed at the WTC site and the Pentagon? Yet you dimwits claim there were no planes involved. Can any of you adequately explain where all the people on those planes that didn’t exist..ended up. Go ask their families why they are lying about their loved ones disappearances.

You morons can’t explain even one aspect of HOW your theory came to pass, yet claim it is people like me that don’t get it?? LOL

The owner of WTC did not give an order to blow up the building, it was an order to cease trying to save the building from it’s inevitable fate. I’ve seen the interview with the man, he didn’t say what you claim he said. It is yet another urban myth in the entire overall urban myth of government involvement in 9/11

Common Sense, it is morons like you that need to be ignored.

You continue to link to conspiracy sites to prove your conspiracy.

Can you explain how the explosives needed to take down those three buildings were put in place with no one noticing?

Let’s start there skippy.

In your own words , explain your theory of how that part of your claim was pulled off.

It’s easy to make a claim, but it has to be based in reality for people to take you seriously.

So here is your big chance dude, the spotlight is on you.

Explain how all the explosives required to take down the buildings were preplaced and no one saw a thing.

Instruct us with your knowledge of explosive demolition of buildings.

The following post was given the title:

“Meeting with Congressman Himes”

The Honorable James A. Himes
United States Congressman
4th District of Connecticut

Dear Jim:

High praise, diligent, and thoughtful admiration were responses by Richard Gage, Gregg Roberts, Kyle Nash, and me after we reflected upon our meeting Friday in your office. Our gratitude for your indulgence will be expressed to the millions of citizens who read websites and blogs that focus on justice for the domestic terrorists that perpetrated the controlled demolition of the WTC.

We also appreciate the time and effort in our meeting by Rachel Kelly and other staff who coordinated our meeting. Friday July 17, 2009, is a new beginning for the effort we share to seek the truth and justice by revealing the domestic terrorists who planned and executed the controlled demolition before the infamous 9/11 attack. The official act by the 9/11 Commission is an attempt to obstruct justice. Our mission will confront the entire 9/11 Commission staff who purposely omitted the testimony by witnesses who corroborated controlled demolition.

Many volunteers throughout America had requested a Congressional audience for an opportunity to introduce Richard Gage. Uniquely, you were the only US Congressman who personally met Richard Gage on this matter of supreme importance to make clear what really happened on 9/11.

The admiration by Richard Gage and his colleagues of you and your insightful response of the presentation was discussed at length after we left your office.

There will be a never ending attack to brand Richard Gage a “conspiracy nut”. Any person including you who requests a legitimate opportunity to hear Richard Gage testify to an official body will be attacked as a “conspiracy nut”. It is my personal opinion that suspects of the controlled demolition will employ the “conspiracy nut” defense because it has worked to discredit the allegations of controlled demolition.

For five years I accepted the government’s official explanation. Watching the two airplanes hit the North and South Towers is extremely convincing. I jumped to the conclusion that any time spent to consider a sinister plot by American officials of the 9/11 attack would be a waste of time.

What made me curious were the reporters and firefighters at the WTC on 9/11 who spontaneously mentioned hearing explosions, but then there were no follow-up reports by the entire media on 9/12 and beyond about the explosions they had heard on 9/11. To have an entire body of witnesses to a criminal act in synch to coincidentally dummy up to explain their own personal statements must certainly be the work of a conspiracy. The entire corporate media replays silly stories day and night for weeks. A few recent examples are the stories about Michael Phelps smoking a bong, Governor Sanford’s false claim that he hiked the Appalachian Trail instead of his journey to Argentina, and Sarah Palin’s decision to quit.

In lieu of my personal experience with other people, I am elated at the integrity you exhibited by inviting Richard Gage at my request to your office, and at the intellectually, honest comments and questions you posed during our meeting.

Regards,
Steve Miller

http://911controlleddemolition.wordpress.com/2009/07/23/congressman-meets-with-richard-gage-others-expose-911-controlled-demolition/

http://overthecoals.blogspot.com/2009/07/meeting-with-congressman-himes.html

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8472

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/category.asp?ID=46

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xca6o38ZNY

When your opinions represent .001% of established knowledge, and can be demonstrably proven to be false…..yet you continue to hold to those opinions and beliefs…….

You qualify as a nut, if your beliefs involve a current “conspiracy theory” you then qualify as a Conspiracy Nut by definition.

Gage is such a man.

Can any of you explain how the explosives were set , yet no one saw any of it happen?

Gage, and his beliefs and comments have been proven false time and time again and yet you cling to his words as gospel. In the face of 700,000 engineers and scientists , JUST IN THE UNITED STATES ALONE, that can show he is full of shit. All of them can’t possibly be involved in “the cover up”

Yet that doesn’t phase you nimrods one bit. You soldier on, facts be damned, you “just know” there are those evil Men in Black out there with their invisible helicopters and memory erasers, and invisible explosives etc etc…but if that doesn’t work for you, your fallback position is to claim….”The Jews Did It”

Good grief, THIS is the best you can do to prove your theory?? Claim the Jews did it?? Did you see all the Jewish surnames on the casualty lists morons?? Or is reading not your strong suit?

How did the Men in Black set all the explosives prior to the attack and NO ONE SAW THEM DO IT??

HOW DID IT HAPPEN??

For your theory to even begin to hold water you have to be able to explain HOW IT WAS DONE. You can’t just say..They were there….You have to explain HOW it was pulled off without anyone noticing.

Clare and all of you people ARE delusional if you believe someone other than the people that admitted pulling this off did it.

Can anyone of you explain how they got the explosives attached to enough columns in all three of the buildings, connected all of them with hundreds of feet of wires and detonation cord without ANYONE seeing them do it?

Anyone??

“Trained professionals who were eyewitnesses at Ground Zero have described the series of explosions in the method typical of planned demolition. Note that they took place long after the planes had impacted the towers, so what they are describing are a series of sequential boom-type sounds accompanied by bright flashes, both standard trademarks of professional demolition:

F.D.N.Y. ASST. COMMISSIONER STEPHEN GREGORY:

“I thought that when I looked in the direction of the Trade Center before it came down, before Number Two came down, that I saw low-level flashes. In my conversation with Lieutenant Evangelista, never mentioning this to him, he questioned me and asked me if I saw low-level flashes in front of the building, and I agreed with him…I saw a flash-flash-flash, and then it looked like the building came down.”

QUESTION TO COMMISSIONER GREGORY:

Was that on the lower level of the building or up where the fire was?

COMMISSIONER GREGORY:

“No, the lower level of the building. You know like when they demolish a building, how when they blow up a building, when it falls down? That’s what I thought I saw. And I didn’t broach the topic to him, but he asked me. He said I don’t know if I’m crazy, but I just wanted to ask you because you were standing right next to me. He said did you see anything by the building? And I said what do you mean by see anything? He said did you see any flashes? I said, yes, well, I thought it was just me. He said no, I saw them too…I’m not going to say it was on the first floor or the second floor, but somewhere in that area I saw to me what appeared to be flashes. “

PARAMEDIC DANIEL RIVERA:

“At first I thought it was – do you ever see professional demolition where they set the charges on certain floors and then you hear ‘Pop-pop-pop-pop-pop’? That’s exactly what – because I thought it was that. When I heard that frigging noise, that’s when I saw the building coming down.”

F.D.N.Y. CAPTAIN KARIN DESHORE:

“Somewhere around the middle of the World Trade Center there was this orange and red flash coming out. Initially it was just one flash. Then this flash just kept popping, all the way around the building, and that building had started to explode. The popping sound. And with each popping sound, it was initially an orange, and then a red flash came out of the building, and then it would just go all around the building, on both sides as far as I could see. These popping sounds, and the explosions were getting bigger, going both up and down, and then all around the building.”

- Excerpts from firefighters-for-9-11-truth-summary-of-evidence-of-controlled-demolition-at-the-world-trade-center/

http://911research.wtc7.net/materials/posters/volcano.pdf

September 11th Revisited: Were explosives used?

“September 11th Revisited is perhaps the most riveting film ever made about the destruction of the World Trade Center.

This is a powerful documentary, which features eyewitness accounts and archived news footage that was shot on September 11, 2001 but never replayed on television.

Featuring interviews with eyewitnesses & firefighters, along with expert analysis by Professor Steven E. Jones, Professor David Ray Griffin, MIT Engineer Jeffrey King, and Professor James H. Fetzer. This film provides stunning evidence that explosives were used in the complete demolition of the WTC Twin Towers and WTC Building 7.”

Visit http://www.911revisited.com to get the DVD of this movie.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8172271955308136871#docid=4194796183168750014

http://tinyurl.com/ycefmo8

Did the World Trade Center towers undergo a deliberate “power-down” on the weekend prior to the 9-11 terrorist attacks? According to Scott Forbes, a senior database administrator for Fiduciary Trust, Inc. – a high-net investment bank which was later acquired by Franklin Templeton – this is precisely what took place. Forbes, who was hired by Fiduciary in 1999 and is now stationed at a U.K. branch office, was working on the weekend of September 8-9, 2001, and said that his company was given three weeks advance notice that New York’s Port Authority would take out power in the South Tower from the 48th floor up. The reason: the Port Authority was performing a cabling upgrade to increase the WTC’s computer bandwidth.

Forbes stated that Fiduciary Trust was one of the WTC’s first occupants after it was erected, and that a “power-down” had never been initiated prior to this occasion. He also stated that his company put forth a huge investment in time and resources to take down their computer systems due to the deliberate power outage. This process, Forbes recalled, began early Saturday morning (September 8th) and continued until mid-Sunday afternoon (September 9th) – approximately 30 hours. As a result of having its electricity cut, the WTC’s security cameras were rendered inoperative, as were its I.D. systems, and elevators to the upper floors.

Forbes did stress, though, that there was power to the WTC’s lower floors, and that there were plenty of engineers going in-and-out of the WTC who had free access throughout the building due to its security system being knocked out. In an e-mail to journalist John Kaminski, author of The Day America Died (Sisyphus Press) and America’s Autopsy Report (Dandelion Books), Forbes wrote: “Without power there were no security cameras, no security locks on doors, and many, many ‘engineers’ coming in and out of the tower.”

Forbes didn’t think much of these occurrences at the time, and said that he worked until Monday morning (September 10th) to get all the computer systems back online. Due to his IT-related duties on Saturday & Sunday, Forbes had Tuesday, September 11th off, and thus watched the World Trade Center towers collapse from his apartment. While doing so, he recalled, “I was convinced immediately that something was happening related to the weekend work.”

In addition, Forbes says there were other peculiarities revolving around this unreported event, including:

1) Fiduciary employees trapped between the 90-97th floors of the South Tower told family members (via cell-phone calls) that they were hearing “bomb-like explosions” throughout the towers.

2) Video cameras positioned atop the World Trade Center which were used to feed daily images to local television stations were inexplicably inoperative that morning.

3) A Fiduciary employee who was on one of the lower floors and escaped immediately after the first (North) tower was struck, reported that he was amazed by the large number of FBI agents that were already on the streets surrounding the WTC complex only minutes after the initial strike.

4) Last but not least, Ann Tatlock, CEO of Fiduciary Trust and now a board member of Franklin Templeton, had just arrived at a conference hosted by Warren Buffet at the Offutt Air Force Base (home of the U.S. Strategic Command Headquarters in Omaha, Nebraska) when the 9-11 attacks took place. Coincidentally, later that day President George W. Bush flew into this very same base on Air Force One for „security reasons.” …

In the end, Forbes says that even though these disclosures could jeopardize his current employment, he has stepped forward because, „I have mailed this information to many people, including the 9/11 Commission, but no one seems to be registering these facts.”

sf.indymedia.org/

911 Mysteries: What really happened?

90 minutes of pure demolition evidence and analysis, laced with staggering witness testimonials.

Moving from “the myth” through “the analysis” and into “the players,” careful deconstruction of the official story set right alongside clean, clear science. The 9/11 picture is not one of politics or nationalism or loyalty, but one of strict and simple physics.

http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=15716

Was 9/11 an inside job?

The use of explosives is abundantly clear in this film.

Only the clueless, or Intel operatives, would waste their time mocking this information.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/yt-PWgSaBT9hNU/9_11_revisited_were_explosives_used/

Do you have any understanding of what is involved in explosively demolishing a building of that size??

It’s very easy to make claims

But you have to be able to explain HOW it was pulled off in order for your claim to have any credibility.

How did they attach all the explosives to enough columns and connect them all with detonation cord and wires without anyone seeing them do it?

Windows blowing out during the collapse is normal and happens when buildings collapse..it is not evidence of explosions.

You are claiming reporters confused reports as proof of explosions?

You have to explain HOW the explosives got in there in the first place. People describe loud noises as explosions…it’s a descriptive word when you don’t know what just happened.

HOW DID THE EXPLOSIVES GET IN?

HOW WERE THEY ATTACHED TO THE COLUMNS WITHOUT ANYONE NOTICING?

Go watch buildings being demolished with explosives. There are a long series of explosions involved when a building is brought down with explosives. Not just AN explosion.

The sounds these people describe as explosions were teh sounds of the building coming down and the force of the air from the collapse of the towers.

You have to be able to explain how the explosives ( TNT etc ) were placed without anyone noticing it in THREE different buildings without anyone noticing.

Like I’ve said already

Go watch other buildings being demolished with explosives.

Look up the procedures for explosively demolishing a building of that size. Observe the massive amount of work that needs to be done to just prep the building for the explosives…not to mention how the explosives have to be attached directly to the columns, many columns have to be precut, then you have to have hundreds of feet of Detonation Cord and wires attached to all the columns and connected to a central location where you can detonate them in a controlled fashion…

YOU CAN’T HIDE THIS SHIT, so how did they do it?

at about 9:30 in this video you see and HEAR one of the towers coming down and NO EXPLOSION sounds can be heard..but you do hear the sound of the tower collapsing.

again at 11:45 you HEAR the tower collapse but no explosion noises.

also at about 15:00 minutes into this tape you HEAR WTC7 collapse and NO explosion sounds, none whatsoever. But you hear plenty of sounds of a building collapsing.

I’ve been near a few controlled demolitions and the explosions are LOUD and unmistakable. Plus there are MANY of them as they explode in predetermined patterns in order to bring down the building in it’s footprint. None of what is presented proves a controlled demolition, in fact it disproves your own theory when you take SOUND into account.

This moron David Ray Griffin claims THOUSANDS of explosives were placed in the towers.

THOUSANDS, fine..prove how it was done…otherwise he is just guessing.

Give yourself at least a small bit of credibility and try to explain HOW they set all of these explosives and no one noticed it.

One more thing on explosive demolitions of buildings.

when you want to bring down a building you use explosives on the LOWER floors and let gravity do your job for you.

These towers clearly collapsed from the top down and the failure point was at the point of impact. This makes perfect logical sense , since this is the exact location with the most stress on it at the time. Couple that with the design flaw in the way loads were carried in the towers and you get a big pile of rubble.

The DVDs mentioned in earlier posts answer the questions regarding the demolitions of September 11th 2001.

They include:

1) IMPROBABLE COLLAPSE – A scientific approach. Starring Physics Prof. Steven Jones, Eyewitness Mark Jacobson, Fire Science Prof. Glenn Corbett, Author D. R. Griffin, Scientists Kevin Ryan and Jim Hoffman, Attorney Wm. Veale.

2)”9/11: Blueprint for Truth – The Architecture of Destruction” from Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth. The factual new DVD that is opening the minds of building professionals and exposing the truth of 9/11 to everyone. 2 hour multi-media presentation demolishes the 9/11 lie.

3) 9/11 Eyewitness. Rick Siegel’s original footage of 9/11/2001 captured all 3 WTC controlled demolitions.

4) 9/11 and the Neo-Con Agenda: LA Scholars Symposium, June 25, 2006 (Alex Jones, Prof. Steven Jones, Bob Bowman, James Fetzer, Webster Tarpley) 1:44:13, plus: Michael Meacher and A. von Buelow on Dutch TV, 16:22. Most popular show in C-Span’s history!

5) And the classic: 9/11 MYSTERIES ~ “The Best Yet” Compelling facts and emotion, professional production, 90 min. PURE SCIENCE, NO CONJECTURE OR THEORIES, OVERWHELMING PROOF. NO ONE CAN WATCH IT WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING THIS WAS DEMOLITION.

These professional quality DVDs are available from Progressive Press in California at very reasonable prices.
http://www.progressivepress.com/dvd.html

The 9/11 MYSTERIES DVD is only $5.95 (clamshell case)

If Clare’s stalker is truly interested in how the Twin Towers and Building 7 collapsed; these are the presentations that answer the pertinent questions. The 9/11 MYSTERIES DVD explains the way the explosives were most likely placed into at least one of the towers. The demolitions of these buildings can be clearly seen in the 9/11 MYSTERIES DVD; as well as the 9/11 Revisited presentation which can be viewed here:

http://www.911revisited.com/video.html

I do not come to sites such as this one to be jerked around by time wasters, trolls, Intel operatives, and those in conspiracy denial. Clare’s stalker clearly has no interest in learning the truth about September 11th. He / she is just here to misdirect reader’s attention away from powerful information… to “debunker” talking points.

I am not “progressive left” in my political views; but I do appreciate the DVDs available at such reasonable prices at:

http://www.progressivepress.com/dvd.html

Anyone who is serious about what really happened on September 11th 2001 should have the DVDs mentioned above in their personal collection. Some of them are only $4 each!

The burden of proof is not on me to “explain” how the explosives were brought into the WTC buildings. They were clearly brought down by controlled demolition.

http://www.ae911truth.org/downloads/29_Structural-Civil_Engineers_2009-06-17.pdf

The 9/11 MYSTERIES DVD presents a strong case regarding how the explosives were placed; including at least one witness testimony (my post at 9:47 am explains the “power down”). Watch a good quality copy of the DVD and the “mystery” will be solved.

I already know how they came down, it’s called gravity and two airplanes.

I’m asking YOU to defend your own theory.

How were the explosives PLACED.

In simple terms even you can understand.

How did the Men in Black get into the towers and plant the quoted in your own video THOUSANDS of explosives….yet no one saw them do it.

Furthermore , anyone can just say..it was explosives. I can claim the sun rises in the west…but I can’t explain how that happens I’m obviously full of shit no aren’t I??

The same thing applies to your continued linkage to conspiracy sites claiming this video or that comment proves there were explosives. Those do not show HOW it was accomplished in secret.

It is clearly people like you that refuse to investigate ALL the facts of the case and ask critical questions..such as HOW.

You just accept on faith that explosives were just “there” as if by magic.

You don’t understand the first thing in what is involved in explosively demolishing a building.

Like I said, go watch videos of building being explosively demolished. LOOK at all the wires and other associated material involved in even a simple demolition, let alone two 110 story buildings and a 46 story one a few hours later.

The sheer magnitude of the job required to pull that off negates any possibility of it being kept a secret.

Yet that glaring FACT doesn’t phase any of you delusional people. You just keep on linking to conspiracy sites quoting confused news reporters and victims in shock ( neither of which are very reliable witnesses in a scientific sense )

You then link to a video WITH sounds that clearly indicate the LACK of explosive noises. What someone hears in the panic and heat of the moment doesn’t sound all that menacing when you have the luxury of listening to it safe and sound in front of your computer.

Can ANY Of you explain HOW the explosives were placed yet no one noticed?

Once again, go look at ANY average building demolition and ask yourself..HOW did the Men in Black HIDE all those wires and detonation cord and safety netting and large bundles of explosives STRAPPED to the columns…oh yeah, not to mention the suddenly missing and or pre cut columns that would have had to have been hidden for X amount of time until the fake planes could be used to “trick us” into believing something as silly as fully fueled jetliners could cause all that damage.

How were all the THOUSANDS ( as per your video ) of explosives put in the proper locations without anyone noticing.

Saying they were just there…is idiotic and childish.

Can you explain HOW it was pulled off in secret??

Good god, you are claiming a 30 hour power down to install fiber optics as “the window” needed to put in place THOUSANDS Of explosives and wire them all together AND hide it all? ( forgetting reality and the simple fact you can’t hide all of the needed material to accomplish the job. Add to that , power was on for floors below the 48th…you know…down at the foundation where you would need to place the explosives to do the job )

So, aside from the fact that the timeframe is nowhere near long enough to do the demolition needed prior to placement of the explosives, place the explosives, wire the explosives together, hide the thousands of feet of detonation cord and wiring , repair all the walls and build new ones around the columns that now had explosives strapped to them, AND keep it all a secret……your “power down” theory is absurd …to be kind.

This furthermore only covers ONE building, it doesn’t address the other tower, OR WTC 7…so, how did they get all the explosives installed in WTC 7 and no one saw them do it?

Just ignore the impossibility of hiding all the wires needed to do the job when you give me your answer.

Can you speak for yourself by any chance? Or do you let conspiracy sites think for you??

Go watch a video of them setting up to demolish a building, it takes days and makes a HUGE mess…it can’t be pulled off in 30 hours over the weekend.

So try again, how did they pull it off.

They used homeopathic wires and explosives.

Oh that’s right Troll…I keep forgetting…that has to be it.

One of these days these people might surprise me and actually try to explain the How behind their theory….

But I’m not going to hold my breath waiting for that day lol

I see none of you “experts” can explain how they got that many explosives into all the buildings and attached to enough columns without anyone noticing.

You prove the paucity of your “evidence” when you run and hide from your own theory.

Sorry, 30 hours of no power in the building is not even close to enough time to set enough explosives and hide the evidence ( not counting the fact that you can’t hide that many explosives)…remember, if the power was out , that means the elevators didn’t work either so they would have to carry all those explosives up and down stairs , along with all associated materials for the explosives and the repairs to the walls.

How were the Men in Black able to suspend the laws of physics long enough to pull this off??

None of you can even come close to explaining HOW just this one small part of your theory could have been pulled off…yet expect all of us to just believe you and your theory because you found .001% of the engineers in the U.S. that agree with you.

You have all of these fancy explanations of types of explosives based on a few samples of dust, plus a few videos showing explosive discharge but not from an incendiary device but rather compressed air, and link to a video with confused report after confused report after confused report as your “PROOF” of explosives.

Yet, when a simple question is asked…that being HOW did they get all of the explosives needed into place and no one saw them….it’s the sound of crickets.

Your theory is a joke, if you honestly believe there were explosives in the towers yet aren’t curious to know HOW it was pulled off…you are delusional. It’s almost textbook delusional behavior.

Come on, one of you has to have a theory as to how they got all the explosives in there , set up and hidden so no one was any wiser..

Anyone??

Was it magic?

Winston claimed some “unknown” technology as the answer…lol yeah, isn’t that convenient.

Lorraine said the how was “The Jews Did It”…Lorraine , that isn’t a how, that’s a who..and no , the Jews didn’t do it.

Nz_truths’ idea of explaining how it was pulled off was to threaten me that he was going to find out where I lived with Google Earth…..just as soon as I told him who I was and where I lived, he would find me….so I’d better watch out.

Can any of you supposed know it alls explain how the explosives were set without anyone noticing??

Retired US Air Force Colonel who specialized in investigating airplane crashes says the government’s official version of 9/11 is impossible. Physics911 Posted 2009 Oct 3

excellent article to read right here:
http://www.physics911.net/georgenelson

Oh that’s hilarious…

This guy’s claims would be spot on….except there was plenty of identifiable wreckage found in and around the WTC site, Pentagon site , and the spot in PA

I’ve shown the pictures on this thread of the wreckage.

If this is your “proof” , you’re on very shaky ground.

The aim of the troll’s shadow is obviously to post his / her repetitive rubbish after every post exposing the lies about September 11th. This is to detract from the truth presented by so many readers on this thread alone.

9/11 Mysteries describes in detail what the troll’s shadow keeps bringing up over and over again. The tool will not go there because he is here only to malign the truth. That’s it folks; no other reason.

The towers were brought down by controlled demolitions ~ witnessed by many people on that day ~ and documented very well on the DVD 9/11 Mysteries.

The troll’s shadow is a liar. That much is very obvious to everyone who understands what happened on September 11th 2001.

The architects of the World Trade Center designed the buildings to absorb the impact of a crashing jetliner because that was an obvious structural design imperative in Manhattan. The designers of the buildings always confidently maintained that they would remain structurally secure from collapse under those circumstances. [Apart from controlled demolitions, they would still be standing]

FRANK A. DeMARTINI, MANAGER, WTC CONSTRUCTION & PROJECT MANAGEMENT has testified to the fact that the buildings at the World Trade Center should have been able to sustain multiple jumbo jet impacts without threatening the structural integrity of the buildings’ steel-reinforced frames:

“I believe that the building probably could sustain multiple impacts of jetliners because this structure is like mosquito-netting on your screen door-this intense grid. And the jet plane is just a pencil puncturing that screen netting. It really does nothing to the screen netting.”

~

See 9/11 – A Closer Look by scientist Kevin Ryan:

Each tower contained:

· Over 90,000 tons of concrete;

· 47 Massive Steel Core Columns and

• 240 Steel Perimeter Columns welded together and connected by hundreds of steel joints, perpendicular cross trusses, thousands of large steel bolts and concrete-filled steel floor decking at each floor level;

· 100,000 Ton Heat Sink to absorb excess heat;

• Updated fireproofing and a fire control system designed to prevent “chimney effect” and suffocate fires by depriving them of oxygen [exactly what 9/11 researchers have seen in the photos of the oxygen-starved fires].

Oxygen Starved Fire in North Tower http://digitaljournalist.org/issue0111/biggart02.htm

Another View of Oxygen Starved Fires http://digitaljournalist.org/issue0111/aris01.htm

To convey the extent of the structural integrity of the World Trade Center, the Engineering News Record reported that:

One “could cut away all the first story columns on one side of the building, and partway from the corners of the perpendicular sides, and the building could still withstand design live loads and a 100 mph wind from any direction.”

2. No large steel-reinforced building anywhere in the world, at any time before or since 9/11, ever experienced full building collapse due to fire:

“Never before in the history of the world has a steel building collapsed due to fire.”

~

An EMT (Emergency Medical Technician) who was present at Ground Zero has revealed that he was warned on-scene that Building 7 of the World Trade Center was being brought down by controlled demolition and that a 20-second demolition countdown was broadcast over radio preceding its collapse.

He also witnessed “multiple underground support columns of the WTC towers that had been severed before those buildings imploded.”

He was present at Ground Zero before, during and after the collapse of the structures and states:

“There were explosions. There were flashes. There was molten metal running down the I-beams of the basement levels like lava flows. I’ve never seen anything like it. Yes, planes hit the buildings… But the explosions – the rapid, symmetrical sequential explosions -they happened.”( from an article by Paul Joseph Watson, 2007)

Spoken by someone who was there: unlike the troll’s shadow that can only deride truthseekers and attempt to distract readers with his canned talking points from the Establishment idiots who are paid to distract ~ distort ~ and malign.

Proof of Underground Explosion Seen As South Tower Collapses http://digitaljournalist.org/issue0111/biggart06.htm

The white smoke is clearly from a separate (underground) explosion taking place toward the end of the demolition of the South Tower. This is just one piece of photographic evidence of the underground explosions that witnesses are convinced they heard that day.

Most of the information presented in this post was from the firefighters for 9/11 truth website and the article “summary-of-evidence-of-controlled-demolition-at-the-world-trade-center.”

The evidence is on the side of 9/11 researchers. The troll’s shadow has been desperately trying to cover up the good information posted on this thread since his first day (September 1st) when he barraged the board with 76 messages, while all the time claiming to be “home sick from work.” Busy energetic fellow for someone who was “sick.” He behaves like an Intel operative, and is obviously a liar.

A close examination of this thread will show the troll’s shadow refusing to address much of the information presented by others, and deliberately avoiding the DVDs that solidly nail down the case for controlled demolitions of both WTC towers and Building 7. The only logical explanation if one’s mind isn’t poisoned by the government’s preposterous conspiracy theory of 19 Arab hijackers being responsible for the devastation on September 11th 2001.

~

“If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.” – U.S. President James Madison

No truth has been presented on your side dude…NONE.

I’ve asked you to explain HOW

HOW the explosives were set and no one saw them do it.

You can’t…or you won’t because you know it would expose your conspiracy as yet another delusional hallucination.

The only one lying here is YOU.

I have seen NO plausible explanation of how the explosives were put in place without anyone noticing.

You can’t just set them in the building on the ground and cover it with a tarp and walk away.

The explosives HAVE TO BE ATTACHED to the columns directly. Many columns have to be precut..this requires torches and smoke and demolition..YOU CAN”T HIDE IT..I build things for a living. I know what is involved in cutting steel…YOU CAN’T HIDE IT

Not to mention the THOUSANDS OF FEET of detonation cord and electrical wires that need to be strung between all the columns that have explosives attached to them.

YOU CAN’T HIDE THIS STUFF…certainly not in a lousy 30 hours.

Can ANY of you dimwits explain the HOW of your theory??

Apparently not, all you can do is point to idiots spewing inanities on a conspiracy site…citing videos of a building collapsing with puffs of dust coming out from air compression as evidence of incendiary explosives. Citing videos of confused people, obviously in shock trying to describe what they just went through as PROOF of explosives..yet when you hear the SOUND of the buildings collapsing…you hear NO EXPLOSIONS

Now, go listen to ANY building being explosively demolished. You clearly hear a series of explosions as the columns are blown up in a specific order. NONE of that is present in the video YOU DIMWITS linked to awhile ago…Did you people turn the sound up by any chance when you watched it??

Yeah, supposedly a 30 hour planned shut down of the electricity on floors above the 48th in ONE building is your explanation. Moron, I saw that video…30 hours is not enough time to do what is needed to set the explosives in their proper locations and wire them all up…AND hide all evidence.

I did watch your stupid and ignorant video..That is why I’m asking YOU to explain in your own words how they did it , because that video is so full of shit it’s hilarious.

Come on genius

Here’s your chance to explain your own theory.

I’ve explained in detail how the towers actually fell and it didn’t require preplaced explosives, or Men in Black.

Let’s see how well you can explain in detail how these explosives were preplaced and no one saw it done.

Tyranny??

Seriously??

Are you this unhinged that you think this is all some overreaching government plot to take over the world?

Well, hey man….you can rest easy..whatever the plan might have been…it’s not working out all that well for those Men in Black…..Or have you not been watching the news in the last year or two?

Still too afraid to explain the HOW of your theory truther??

Poor thing, it must be so lonely living in your world. Where you are scared of your own shadow and think THEY are hiding behind every corner. You most likely consider me one of those paid disinformation agents of the government….your paranoia is that pronounced.

But step back for a minute and THINK , try to think clearly for a minute.

If THEY were really out to get you, they’d have gotten you already. If THEY were really out to take over the world…they’d have done it already and not pulled off this 9/11 thing..since your premise for their reason was a NWO……

sorry dude, but that hasn’t happened…so ummmm, how did they pull it off again?

Since you are obviously too scared to confront the impossibility of explosives being planted in secret in the three towers.

How about addressing your fake planes part of your theory.

What did we see crash into the towers if there were no planes?

Where are all the people that were on these non existent planes?

If there weren’t any people on those planes(since there were no planes)…then why are there so many grieving families of the passengers from these invisible planes?

Can you dimwits explain ANY part of your theory as to HOW it was pulled off??

Or do you just accept it on faith and move on?

Like I said awhile back, if you are just going on faith, that’s fine…but you’d be better served by choosing a religion…at least when you go on faith there, there is a nice payoff at the end.

Yes he is a liar.

When I see his lame drivel, I just scroll, scroll, scroll …