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Institute of Medicine adverse reactions report admits MMR vaccines cause measles, seizures, anaphylaxis and other health problems

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/033447_Institute_of_Medicine_vaccines.html#ixzz1khAN0bMM

(NaturalNews) The Institute of Medicine, which has long functioned as a front group for the pharmaceutical industry and receives tens of millions of dollars in annual funding from drug companies and global elitists (like Bill Gates, Ted Turner, etc.), has issued a report that declares the MMR vaccine is not linked to autism. This is now being widely reported in the conventional (controlled) media, which isn’t telling you the real story behind this report.

What’s the real story? That this IOM report, even though it goes out of its way to excuse vaccines and dismiss safety concerns, still openly admits that vaccines cause measles, febrile seizures, anaphylactic shock and other potentially fatal side effects. It also admits that other vaccines are linked to a whole host of bizarre side effects, including skin lesions, difficulty breathing and live virus infections (see complete list, below).

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/033447_Institute_of_Medicine_vaccines.html#ixzz1khAc49sm

Bill Gates has been very open about the real agenda vaccines are being used for (population control)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9vZLlJhI7o&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04pJdaFOwgQ&feature=related

Heres a whistle-blower that worked for the Bill & Belinda Gates Foundation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXylqgsdA3w

GARY IS A TROLL

Yes jas, population control by stopping kids from dying from preventable diseases by vaccinating them. When the kids stop dying from lack of vaccination the parents stop having so many kids. This leads to smaller healthier families. Population growth slows. Example, countries with a high vaccination rate.
Promoting anti vaccination like you do leads to more child deaths. Parents try to compensate by having more children so that they have a chance that a few of them will survive to look after the parents in old age. Your anti vaccine nonsense causes many child deaths, much parental grief, years of extra child bearing for women and increased population growth.
How do you sleep at night with this horror on your conscience?

you just played your hand gary. You are a agent.

GARY THE TROLL did you not see my links
What you say about the links i posted TROLL

Garry the TROLL, Hasbera or Pharmageddon, both of these TROLL nests use the same handbook TROLL 101

I notice that Ivor didn’t disagree with my previous post. Didn’t or couldn’t.

TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL
TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL
TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL
TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL
TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL

Ivor, when you are done with your monosyllabic gibbering, please take note of the fact that vaccine manufacturers/promoters do not attempt to conceal the side effects of vaccination. Any medical intervention has a degree of risk associated with it. The key is whether the benefits of a treatment outweigh the risks, or vice versa.

Care to examine the benefits of vaccines?

What benefits ? you tell that to all of the vaccine damaged children and also tell it to those members of the armed forces of the USA,Britain, Israel etc because they know all about vaccines.

Gary .. Neo?? .. ROFLMAO ..muh huh huh huh ,, bit obvious is it not Garry the TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL.

neo you arrived just in time to back up your TROLL friend gary,very clever,how could a thinking man ever compete with such wisdom
All hail the troll with many names

neo perfect timing. Do you agents wear the earpiece bit as well?

“What benefits ? you tell that to all of the vaccine damaged children and also tell it to those members of the armed forces of the USA,Britain, Israel etc because they know all about vaccines.”

Perhaps taking a break from your computer and having a look out there in the community for cases of tetanus, diphtheria, and polio may be helpful in looking for vaccine benefits. Measles is also worth a look, with our own little mini-epidemic affecting unvaccinated people in Auckland.

Your comment about the armed forces is interesting – what vaccines/diseases/vaccine damages are you referring to?

“neo you arrived just in time to back up your TROLL friend gary,very clever,how could a thinking man ever compete with such wisdom
All hail the troll with many names”

WTF? I don’t quite understand what you are getting at here Jas. For the record Gary and I are different people (I have never met him), but you have been calling Gary a troll even BEFORE I started posting on this thread.

Are he (and I) trolls simply because we don’t share your point of view?

A “thinking man” indeed…

“neo perfect timing. Do you agents wear the earpiece bit as well?”

Nah bro – the implanted microchip has made earpieces redundant….!

Agent of what, specifically?
The NWO?
The Illuminati?
David Icke’s Lizard People?
(help me here, my knowledge of conspiracy theories is somewhat limited)

Why is it a standard tactic on this forum to accuse someone of being a part of some shady conspiracy when they express an opinion that differs from yours?

Jas, the fact you can’t comprehend of a world in which more than a couple of people disagree with your own views on vaccines (to pick but one topic), and that you then resort to name-calling more suited to a 4yo (unless you are just a particularly gifted, if somewhat ill-educated 4yo, in which case, my apologies), says a lot for your powers of analysis, debate and civility.

Bilbo, writing over on another vaccine thread the other day, said…

“I think that sharing insights and views is very useful, especially when we remember to leave our egos and personalities out of it (and I get caught there too, I admit). At the end of the day, each will have their own opinions, which may or may not have altered over the course of discussion. I feel the ultimate objective should not be to alter the opinions of others (whether others’ opinions change or not should not matter to anyone)as that is the road to unproductive conflict whether it be at the interpersonal or national level. When we read others’ opinions and feel angry or upset (or superior – guilty as charged!), then it is a sure sign that the fragile ego has taken hold over the intellect”

One of the few bits of common-sense I’ve seen from the anti-vaxxer end of the spectrum, but one which Ivor and Jas don’t seem to have taken much heed of.

the agents are out in force. Those implanted microchips must have been a good investment. Tell me, can they control you with them?

Yep. Everyone’s back from holiday.

neo,gary,blue ring thinking,the same TROLL or different TROLLS but TROLLS INDEED
I have turned many away from vaccination by laying the facts on the table and leaving the decision up to them,they in turn inform there friends and family and the numbers grow by the day
The more TROLLS that visit the more the establishment is panicking
The cloak of deception is lifting away,TROLLS exposing themselves as mindless fools and i am happy
Today is a great day,tomorrow will be even better

Exactly Jas ..
I am sure that all of the TROLLS here remember the insulting and demeaning performance by Comrade Garry in a prior thread.

But that is the name of the game with these people they lie as though their lives depended on it (perhaps they do) When they are shown evidence to the contrary of their assertions they deny deny deny.

When that does not work they resort to the personal insults .. That speaks the language that I understand well, having learnt as a child in the school playground, and I am quite prepared to use the same tactic back.

And once an asshole always an asshole .. these people callously deny any culpability whatsoever .. just look at the disgrace of the Wakefield affair.

The ungodly Godlee failed to inform anyone of the BMJ and its receipt of Pharmageddon money and especially the manufacturers of the vaccine concerned .. when she was bailed up about it said “It did not occur to us” .. yet this nasty piece of work accused Dr Wakefield via Deere of the same conflict of interest .. well those clowns are finished .. as soiled goods she may find out that she and her shitty little rag the BMJ are dropped by Pharmageddon.

The shills for science based medicine have done their cause irreparable harm ..

When these child maimers and killers start to appear in real Courts of Law instead of their shonky medical courts .. I have no doubt that hundreds of thousands of parents will be calling for the death penalty for the ring leaders.

Science is not blameless it is they that have lent themselves to the Mammon worshipers in the mistaken idea that the Church of Scientism will be further advanced.

Its all about money .. and these scammers sure take a lot of money to amuse. When the starvation and homelessness have been abolished then maybe we can all be interested whether there are microbes on Mars.

They have found the God particle with a horrendously expensive toy .. well children the time to stop the ferris wheel is nigh .. get off and walk like all of those people who have slaved a life time to support these one track minded people.

The Universities world wide are amassing patents as a hedge against the coming crunch .. well a lot of Judges will suddenly become aware that they serve the people .. the patents will be worthless ..

Knowledge gained with public money belongs to the people .. so the patents will become worthless.

You have it right Jas they are starting to run scared .. dropping their sense of entitlement behind them as they panic whilst their power base is shrinking.

Health Freedom is the name of the game and those that want to support the dripping needles and lethal pills should be allowed to, which is more than can be said of these monsters when it comes to alternative medicine.

Yes i see it the same way Ivor,very different from 5yrs ago,most people already know there is something very wrong
Whem the masses are awake there is going to be much retribution,payroll accounts will be summoned and even the mindless TROLL will be held to account
History tells us the gallows will be favored over prison time
The future looks fantastic,freedom to all those who want freedom for others

“even the mindless TROLL will be held to account”

Now that I’d like to see.

“Whem the masses are awake there is going to be much retribution,payroll accounts will be summoned and even the mindless TROLL will be held to account. History tells us the gallows will be favored over prison time.”

“Now that I’d like to see.”

You’re advocating (and looking forward to) death by hanging of people who disagree with you? Isn’t that a little extreme, even for you guys?

No you people are the extremists with your insistence that science is always right and the rest of us are mindless cattle who follow superstition. And it is our God given duty to support the religion of scienctism

You need to remember .. the mob took Lavoisier,s head and given what science has done to the world and your continual bleating about scientific and academic freedom to do what you want and everyone else can go to hell .. then tell me Troll .. what do you think the mob should do?

Pat you all on the head .. give you a glass of milk a cookie and then send you off to bed for being naughty boys and girls ?

The nature of the mob can be typified by the French Revolution, the Military and what passed for police stood aside because the mob knew the addresses of their family’s.

Jas was not being extreme she was stating historical facts. You guys are into facts until you change the rules again .. Yes ??

“No you people are the extremists with your insistence that science is always right and the rest of us are mindless cattle who follow superstition.”

So, sugggesting death by hanging for pro-vaccination advocates *isn’t* extreme. Ok.

So, sugggesting death by hanging for pro-vaccination advocates *isn’t* extreme. Ok.

Someone who accepts money to discredit relevant information is a TROLL not a advocate but you already know this blue ring thinking,trying to portray us as extremist is more mindless banter from TROLLEN 101
The parents of a autistic child or the man with cancer injected into him with his flu vaccine are the ones you TROLLS will answer to,not me

agent BS Thinking,
that must be a scary thought for you. Do you think your handlers will save you, or will they give you to the “mob” hoping to save their own tails. Lots of people have died because of your “benefits outway the risks vaccines” and lies and corruption of information. The “mob” can see this now and the “mob” is starting to get angry.

Wow. I don’t normally play the personal card, but you guys are actually starting to sound quite unhinged.

Will all vaccine-advocates be executed by this ‘angry mob’?

Public health officials?
General practitioners?
Plunket nurses?

agent BS thinking you know whats coming. anyway you are sort of obsolete now , it’s to easy to see through you agents now.

“agent BS thinking you know whats coming.”

Mass executions by angry anti-vaccination mobs, is what I’m reading.

“anyway you are sort of obsolete now , it’s to easy to see through you agents now.”

Fair enough then. I’ll leave the plunket nurses to your mercy…

blue ring thinking don’t try and line yourself with plunket nurses and such
You are no uninformed public official,your denial of relevant information has sealed your fate
Records are kept forever now, it will be easy to find you and there will be nowhere to hide
TROLLS will be held to account,so suck it up bigboy

“Records are kept forever now, it will be easy to find you and there will be nowhere to hide
TROLLS will be held to account,so suck it up bigboy”

Jas, are you saying that when the angry anti-vaccination mobs hit the streets, you’re going to find me and hang me for my ‘crimes’?

Im not the angry mob fool, but i will help in the tracking down of paid shills,justice will be dependence by those affected,not me as i have already said

Ah, I see, you’ll only be aiding and abetting the mob’s executions.

Anyway, not actually being a ‘paid shill’, I’ll rest easy.

The evidence is all in the other thread drawn out by Garry Golem, and talking of Golems.

You argue like an Israeli trying to defend what the monsters have done in Gaza and the West Bank .. you know the sort of self serving stuff .. Black is White and untruth is truth. Garry Golem is an expert just like you.

Pharmageddon usually commit the vaccine crimes in Africa, but not so long ago they were caught at it in South America and Pharmageddon killed a minimum of 14 children with an experimental vaccine .. but that ok eh ? .. experiment successful for next years flu vaccine.

But its not just 14 children, there are hundreds of thousands of maimed children and grieving adults .. meantime the church of scientism prevaricates whilst people are continuing to be maimed and killed.

By supporting such procedures one is complicit, and even if one is not hauled before a court, or up a lamp post, you will still have to answer to yourself for the complicity.

Not a paid shill .. oh dear oh dear so you spread your lies as a matter of conviction eh ? Talking of Convictions ROFL.

It is a historical fact that the robber barons just tossed the underlings off the ramparts as a sacrifice to try to placate the besiegers. So its the underlings first ..

I presume the mob will waterboard and rip a few finger nails out .. put electrodes on your tabs and give you a thrill .. this is all quite legal now .. the Yanks, Brits and Israeli,s do it as a matter of course .. if you scream you are guilty .. if you do not scream then you are double guilty.

No one is threatening you .. you are being told what is historical fact .. remember Lavoisier,s head in a basket .. historical fact, but I for one will not shed any tears because justice is done and good riddance to bad rubbish.

The age of accountability is very close .. think about it, and everything is available even IP Numbers.

Ivor – when has anyone ever claimed that science is always right?

To do so would be ridiculous, and as history has shown, patently false.

Each question (e.g the risks versus benefits of vaccination) must be judged on the evidence available.

Where, by the way, are the hundreds of thousands of maimed children?

…and how precisely did we move on from child vaccination to the Middle East, robber barons, water-boarding, and the guillotine?

when has anyone ever claimed that science is always right?

Garry seems to think it is .. however in the first place everybody knows, that science is wrong as many times as it is right, in fact the halls of academia are knee deep in discarded theories. The penny fell as tails instead of heads.

Now let me see .. hmmm if they now admit that they are not now always right, then why should I believe scientific pronouncements ?

More to the point, then obviously vaccination is also a risky proposition.

Do you know how many vaccinated Autistic children there are world wide ? Well science does not want to know .. nothing to do with us they mutter. But at a minimum there are a hundred thousand and many many Parent support groups around the world who have been abandoned by the bastards that did that to them.
==============================

and how precisely did we move on from child vaccination to the Middle East, robber barons, water-boarding, and the guillotine?

Because they are all connected use your nous and see past the similes.

================================

Let me see now, I remember when the Polio Vax was considered to have wiped out polio .. Well it has now emerged in a more virulent form .. Do you recall Pasturds reported dying words ? If not let me remind you .. “Bechamp was right, the microbe is nothing, the terrain is everything” ..

By the way Pasturd is not a spelling mistake because he was a rotten little turd who the Vaxers followed.
==============================

Polio Vaccines Now The #1 Cause of Polio Paralysis
Post date: Tue, January 17th 2012 at 3:0 pm by Sayer Ji

Below is an extract from the report. A Chiropracter commenting on the report said tersely .. “Population control of browner people” !! To which I add “Precisely”.
=================================
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/polio-vaccines-now-1-cause-polio-paralysis

Instead, a large portion of the world’s vaccines are given to the third world as “charity,” when the underlying conditions of economic impoverishment, poor nutrition, chemical exposures, and socio-political unrest are never addressed. You simply can’t vaccinate people out of these conditions, and as India’s new epidemic of vaccine-induced polio cases clearly demonstrates, the “cure” may be far worse than the disease itself.

1 Cono J, Alexander LN (2002). “Chapter 10: Poliomyelitis” (PDF). Vaccine-Preventable Disease Surveillance Manual.

2 http://www.polioeradication.org/Dataandmonitoring/Poliothisweek.aspx

3Strebel PM, Sutter RW, Cochi SL, et al. Epidemiology of poliomyelitis in the United States one decade after the last reported case of indigenous wild virus-associated

“Each question (e.g the risks versus benefits of vaccination) must be judged on the evidence available.”

Yes yes neo, of course. Long time readers will know that if they consider evidence you disapprove of or make a decision at odds with your beliefs then you deem their judgement unacceptable. That is after all why you come here posting your drivel.

Ivor, you quote a chiropractor? Another branch of quackery!
You loser.
I notice that despite your rejection of science you are always quick to quote any science that appears to support your silly delusions.

“…and how precisely did we move on from child vaccination to the Middle East, robber barons, water-boarding, and the guillotine?”

Glad you asked.

The human world is a closed system. Everyone on it affects everyone else.

What we are seeing (and what we have always seen ever since boats) is an ongoing process of extraction.

A process of a group or groups (let’s call them ‘takers’ or ‘robber barons’) moving from one continent onto another

and taking shit off the people who live there

- and forcing these people to become a market for the goods and services of the ‘takers’ or ‘robber barons’.

The pharmaceutical industry is comprised of some of the wealthiest companies in the world.

They didn’t generate those levels of wealth locally.

The same can be said of the oil industry.

Both are two sides of the same meddling intercontinental tentacle.

In trying to access control of these resources and the control of their distribution

‘techniques’ like ‘waterboarding’ among others have often been employed

as a means to that end.

And when people are sick enough of their fear, feelings of helplessness, and sick enough of being viciously exploited by the ‘takers’

- historically,

some have reached for the guillotine

- as a means of solving their problems.

So you see it’s all linked.

Thanks for the replies.

Ivor – if vaccinations cause autism, why do large scale epidemiological studies not show this?

Bringing up polio resurgence does not help your argument. Polio has staged a comeback after Nigerian leaders stated that polio vaccine transmitted AIDS, and vaccination rates dropped, resulting in a huge increas in polio rates and ‘exporting’

In countries like NZ with high vaccination rates polio does not occur.

The article you posted about India is a careful and deliberate misinterpretation of data. Even if India has 180 cases of vaccine induced polio per year and 42 cases of wild polio, this clearly preferable to the historical pre-vaccination polio rate, which was a lot higher. Polio cases per year in India numbered in the thousands prior to 1995 when large scale vaccination was introduced.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00031936.htm

Yes… polio vaccines may be the #1 cause of polio paralysis… BECAUSE WILD POLIO IS ALMOST GONE, thanks to vaccination.

Which is worse – thousands of paralysed kids, or 180 paralysed kids?

Really, this is not rocket science.

Cure worse than disease my ass.

__________

Gerard – of course I’m being judgemental. That is the whole point of threads like this, is it not? To review information and make a judgement?

Or do you post simply because you like the sound of your own e-voice?

If someone posts evidence that supports their argument I read it. If I think it is flawed I say so. I expect the same to be done to information that I post.

“Now let me see .. hmmm if they now admit that they are not now always right, then why should I believe scientific pronouncements ?

More to the point, then obviously vaccination is also a risky proposition.”

Correct.

Vaccination has risks.

Which must be compared against benefits.

You clearly think vaccination is risky.

Do you think vaccination has any benefits?

What benefits ? If you pump filth into a baby before its immune system has grown, what is one to expect ? Immunity ? why is it necessary to keep vaccinating at regular intervals for life ? Perhaps its the money.

One may expect that 20% of NZ children have Asthma .. in the UK it was considered a disease of Industrial areas because that was where it occurred. And certainly not at the rate of NZ .. just look at our kids with their puffers that rot their lungs and kill them.

There is no proof that vaccination prevents anything and no amount of the scientific numerology can disprove that fact.

Also if the proponents reckon it does in fact prevent the disease that it was introduced to the babies bloodstream for, then why do we have all of this hysterical mouth foaming about parents who refuse to have their children polluted with scraps of diseased monkey DNA and RNA ?

Why is it necessary that everyone be vaccinated ? And puleeze none of this malarky about herd immunity. And none of your self serving dismissal of many hundreds of studies that give lie to what you are saying and a total denial of what is really going on .. wake up .. or am I to understand that you have been educated beyond your intelligence ?

The sheer hubris of these people who seem to think that they know better than Nature. Most of the diseases that are being vaccinated for were already in decline before this filthy practice commenced in earnest. Why are Mumps and Measles now considered killer diseases ?

They used to be part of every childhood .. so what has happened to make them lethal.

So tell me oh great one .. exactly what are the benefits of Vaccination ?

I will give you a clue .. Kaaching,Kaaching as the cash register operates and more jobs for the boyz and gals who went through a hideous brainwashing and then told that they are special and the rest of us are dumbo,s.

You just wake up and understand what you are part of. You are very good at posing questions but seem to be very reluctant to accept the matters put before you and find excuses .. well how do you explain the fourteen childrens deaths in SA, the ones that were experimented on by Pharmageddon ? I suppose they were just collateral damage.

You lie through your teeth about Autism, and in case you have not heard, Dr Wakefield has been vindicated and that despicable creature Godlee, and her incubus Deere have to go and defend their fraud in a real court of law and not the usual (ho hum) rigged medical courts, kangaroo,ed by the odious BMA.

THE ODIOUS BMJ TRYING TO COVER ITS ASS ..

http://www.healthjournalism.org/blog/2012/01/bmj-analysis-reveals-widespread-publicationselection-bias-in-research/

BMJ analysis reveals widespread publication/selection bias in research
Jan. 17th, 2012 by Andrew Van Dam
Filed under: Conflicts of interest, Government, Health data

Reporting on a study released by BMJ and characterized as an almost existential threat to the medical research system by Dr. Harlan Krumholz, the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel’s John Fauber writes that “Drug research, even from clinical trials sponsored by the federal government, routinely is suppressed, harming patients and increasing health care costs.” The emphasis is mine, the strong language Fauber’s.

The conclusions are based on a survey of meta-analyses of individual participant data, which the authors broke down by data source characteristics and publication status. The work is heavy on statistical analysis, but even lay readers can understand the broad strokes of what appears to be a widespread issue.

Steve Nissen, the lead author of the analysis, said 35 of the 42 studies he looked at were unpublished and were obtained only because a court case required the drug’s maker, GlaxoSmithKline, to turn over the data.

And it isn’t just pharmaceutical companies’ financial concerns driving the suppression, Nissen and his coauthors found. At that point, it may more of an issue of confirmation bias and other problems which have always lurked within academic research.

A surprising finding in the BMJ analysis was that serious lapses occurred even in clinical trials funded by the National Institutes of Health.

That research showed that less than half of NIH-funded clinical trials were published in a medical journal within 30 months of the completion of the trial and after 51 months, one-third of trials remained unpublished.

Doctor Calls Police, Child Services on Mother Who Refuses to Vaccinate Son
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gl127_3BNKA&feature=player_embedded
This shows the establishment is losing the info war,now they try to criminalize informed parents,wait for it,its coming to a town near you
This will only wake people faster

neo,what a loser you are

Jas,

the coercion shown is just a small part of the bully boy tactics of these monsters but as you say, the establishment are losing the information war .. however these slimy creatures have not yet given up they now propose to muzzle the internet .. it looks as though its another failed attempt as the internet giants line up against these Zionist stooges.

I know that it is off topic but let us remember these stirring words ..

=============================

A DECLARATION OF THE INDEPENDENCE OF CYBERSPACE
John Perry Barlow
(barlow@efforg}

Governments of the Industrial World, you weary giants of flesh and steel, I come from Cyberspace, the new home of Mind.

On behalf of the future, I ask you of the past to leave us alone. You are not welcome among us. You have no sovereignty where we gather.

We have no elected government, nor are we likely to have one, so I address you with no greater authority than that with which liberty’ itself always speaks.

I declare the global social space we are building to be naturally independent of the tyrannies you seek to impose on us.

You have no moral right to rule us nor do you possess any methods of
Enforcement we have true reason to fear. Governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed.

You have neither solicited nor received ours. We did not invite you. You do not know us, nor do you know our world. Cyberspace does not lie within your borders.

Do not think that you can build it, as though it were a public construction project. You cannot. It is an act of nature and it grows itself through our collective actions.

You have not engaged in our great and gathering conversation, nor did you create the wealth of our marketplaces. You do not know our culture, our ethics, or the unwritten codes that already provide our society more order than could be obtained by any of your impositions.

You claim there are problems among us that you need to solve. You use this claim as an excuse to invade our precincts. Many of these problems don’t exist. Where there are real conflicts, where there are wrongs, we will identify them and address them by our means.

We are forming our own Social Contract. This governance will arise according to the conditions of our world, not yours. Our world is different.

Cyberspace consists of transactions, relationships, and thought itself, arrayed like a standing wave in the web of our communications. Ours is a world that is both everywhere and nowhere, but it is not where bodies live.

We are creating a world that all may enter without privilege or prejudice accorded by race, economic power, military force, or station of birth.

We are creating a world where anyone, anywhere may express his or her beliefs, no matter how singular, without fear of being coerced into silence or conformity.

Your legal concepts of property, expression, identity, movement, and context do not apply to us. They are all based on matter, and there is no matter here.

Our identities have no bodies, so, unlike you, we cannot obtain order by physical coercion. We believe that from ethics, enlightened self-interest, and the commonwealth, our governance will emerge.

Our identities may be distributed across many of your jurisdictions. The only law that all our constituent cultures would generally recognize is the Golden Rule. We hope we will be able to build our particular solutions on that basis. But we cannot accept the solutions you are attempting to impose.

In the United States, you have today created a law, the Telecommunications Reform Act, which repudiates your own Constitution and insults the dreams of Jefferson, Washington, Mill, Madison, DeToqueville, and Brandeis. These dreams must now be born anew in us.

You are terrified of your own children, since they are natives in a world where you will always be immigrants. Because you fear them, you entrust your bureaucracies with the parental responsibilities you are too cowardly to confront yourselves.

In our world, all the sentiments and expressions of humanity, from the debasing to the angelic, are parts of a seamless whole, the global conversation of bits. We cannot separate the air that chokes from the air upon which wings beat.

In China, Germany, France, Russia, Singapore, Italy and the United States, you are trying to ward off the virus of liberty by erecting guard posts at the frontiers of Cyberspace. These may keep out the contagion for a small time, but they will not work in a world that will soon be blanketed in bit-bearing media.

Your increasingly obsolete information industries would perpetuate themselves by proposing laws, in America and elsewhere, that claim to own speech itself throughout the world. These laws would declare ideas to be another industrial product, no more noble than pig iron.

In our world, whatever the human mind may create can be reproduced and distributed infinitely at no cost. The global conveyance of thought no longer requires your factories to accomplish.

These increasingly hostile and colonial measures place us in the same position as those previous lovers of freedom and self-determination who had to reject the authorities of distant, uninformed powers. We must declare our virtual selves immune to your sovereignty, even as we continue to consent to your rule over our bodies.

We will spread ourselves across the Planet so that no one can arrest our thoughts.
We will create a civilization of the Mind in Cyberspace. May it be more humane and fair than the world your governments have made before.

Davos, Switzerland. February 8, 1996
http://www.eff.org/~barlow/Declaration-Final.html (last accessed 31 March 2003).

Ivor – I wil respond to your comments in detail later – currently sorting out dinner for my vaccinated non-autistic children

I agree with you that many of these diseases were in decline prior to vaccination (better sanitation etc) but they did not go away. We still have epidemics when vaccination rates are low enough, with those affected being almost exclusively unimmunised (recent Auckland outbreak of measles for example)

Epidemics of measles still carry a death rate of about 1 in 1000 in the first world (e.g NZ in 1991, with 7 children dying out of about 7000 cases). Depends how you define ‘killer disease’ I guess, but personally I don’t think kids dying in NZ from a preventable disease is acceptable.

Another excellent article from The Age of Autism ..

Monitoring | Main
LeRoy New York Girls’ Plight Highlights The Durability of Sheer Medical Nonsense

Nonsense_logo_messyEditor’s Note: It is clear from Tuesday’s Today Show Segment (confirmed on Wednesday) that doctors believe the “tics” afflicting teen girls in LeRoy, New York, are a psychiatric illness — specifically, conversion disorder. (That’s all that’s left when you rule out infectious and environmental factors, at least as I understand those terms.) For that reason, we’re re-running my recent post about this dubious diagnosis and its roots in Freudian nonsense that has still not been acknowledged and discredited.

By Dan Olmsted

Events have conspired this year to bring attention to psychiatry as it relates to autism and other disorders that we believe share environmental roots. The focus is not at all flattering.

There’s the American Psychiatric Association’s re-jiggering of the upcoming DSM-V so that the parameters of autistic disorder will change, fuzzing the real increase and making its environmental nature harder to discern. Then there’s French psychiatrists banning a documentary called The Wall, which portrays them (accurately) as clinging to the discredited parent-blaming paradigm.

There’s the book Anatomy of an Addiction by Howard Markel, which portrays Sigmund Freud as – how shall we put it — coked out of his freaking mind while cooking up some of his big ideas. And there’s a well-received new film, A Dangerous Method, which describes how Freud and Jung dealt – poorly — with a prominent case of “hysteria.”

The miserable performance of psychiatry on these fronts is not news to us. In our book The Age of Autism – Mercury, Medicine, and a Man-made Epidemic, Mark Blaxill and I put forward a new theory about Freud’s first “hysteria” cases in the late 1800s. We argue that many if not most of those dozen or so case studies – which included both men and women – were actually organic illnesses triggered by toxins, and in particular by mercury exposure from medicine and manufacturing.

We won’t recapitulate that theory here (see our chapter, “The Age of Hysteria”) except to say that Freud himself noted that most of the severe patients he saw were tending fathers with long histories of syphilis – treated with mercury – or were otherwise employed in nursing – where mercury dressings and treatments were then standard. Our examination of his key case histories, from “Dora” to “Anna O.,” documented the close connection. In the case of Dora, Freud treated her father for syphilis before seeing her as a patient a few years later – having triggered, we believe, the very mental problems that he then treated as psychiatric! Nice work if you can get it.

The article continues here ..
http://www.ageofautism.com/2012/01/leroy-new-york-girls-plight-highlights-the-durability-of-sheer-medical-nonsense.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ageofautism+%28AGE+OF+AUTISM%29

Medical Zionism.
The Scourge of Nations.
Ivor
=================================================
A radical monopoly feeds upon itself.
Iatrogenic Medicine reinforces a morbid society in which the social control of the population by the medical system turns into a principle economic activity, it serves to legitimize social arrangements into which many people do not fit.

Ivan Illich
‘Medical Nemesis’.
Pantheon 1976
=================================================
Some years ago whilst queuing for the mandated medical inspection at a home for homeless men I had cause to reflect upon the nature of a system of control, to which the poor and downtrodden of every nation are subject. To be poor means to be stripped of any vestige of human dignity and used as a pawn in whatever game the dispensers of charity are playing. Some do it in the name of God and some in the name of Beelzebub or Mammon and Government. I wonder how many of those people reflect, that without those unfortunates, from off whose back they eat their daily bread .. that without the poor they must also join the breadline queue.

I have used the term Zionism because Western Orthodox Medicine closely mirrors the political system of Zionist control of the media and the ruthless control of whole nations. Like the political Zionists, the Mandarins of Medicine mercilessly flog, smear, denigrate then strip the dissenters of their livelihood and with alarming regularity engage in book burning. They control the medical press and ensure conformity.

Weighed, measured and with trousers around my ankles, I stood before her as she bent forward and gingerly lifted my penis with a spatula and examined it for lesions, ulcers, scabs and discharge. And with the same spatula stirred my pubic hair for signs of pediculosis, satisfied, she straightened up and attached me to the manometer and pumped the cuff on my upper arm full of air .. Hmm, she said, “your blood pressure is considerably over what we allow, you will need to be put on medication .. oh, and you can pull up your trousers now”.

What sort of medication do you have in mind, I asked sarcastically .. “oh your blood pressure is too high, we will soon have that under control” .. to which .. I used the term ‘blood pressure’ as an expletive .. Why are you so angry she asked .. I told her why I was so angry .. shortly afterwards I was called to the Superintendents office and told to leave.

As I trudged those cold early morning city streets I had much cause for thought .. the medical rituals such as the taking of blood pressure or checking sugar levels and the figures obtained are not a constant forever etched on the sky. Blood pressure rises and falls throughout a 24 hour period and for a myriad different causes .. the approach of a loved one, or anger .. perhaps I should have just rode the system and tossed the legal killer pills into a fire .. at least I would have had a warm bed and a breakfast .. being smart .. is what we working class call it .. but for the life of me I could not embrace that line of thinking .. Throughout that long night I was the attention of passing patrol cars .. the first time the police stopped, it was a bully boy grilling with the demand for papers .. Thereafter the police just slowed to a crawl and followed me up the street .. in the military, and when subduing the irate peasantry .. we used that type of tactic, we called it ‘putting the frighteners on’ .

-:-$£S-:-
Modern orthodox medicine is a mirror image of the political system from which it feeds, Capitalist or Socialist e.g. the USA and Britain. Both systems tap the same political artery .. it is the people who are subjects of either system who must pay, either directly or indirectly to support the medical system. It does not escape ones attention that the servants of Asklepios in both economic medical systems, agree in principle as to the rules of the game. They live very well from the proceeds once the student loan is paid off. But it is our backs that these people sup from.

Neither system appears to have much of a problem leveraging money from the people via insurance companies or the taxman on the basis of an annual cost of living rise, whilst in the meantime the junior staff from janitor to intern have to strike either for better pay or for a reduction in the relentless hours that are forced upon them by the glass bead abacus that lies at the apex of these little pyramids of power, who also have links to larger pyramids .. even to the kings chambers .. where the abacus beads are of semi precious stones which in their clacking spit out numbers .. numbers that rule us all .. and in the process the orthodox medical consumers are economically recycled via the assembly line medicine.

A system of medicine that has abandoned its ethics .. its very core, any compassion has long since evaporated .. so often the difference between life and death is an economic medical decision .. the grotesque organ transplantation technology has grown into a fully fledged black market for human organs, and I cannot help wondering how many lives are terminated ahead of time so that steaming fresh organs can be harvested either for the trade or as medical trophies in glass jars to be paraded before new intakes of medical students. Just pieces of meat that once were human.

The suicide pills euphemistically called anti-depressants .. the cancer causing birth control pills, the mountains of female cancerous breasts .. the mountains of discarded wombs .. which have long since outstripped the obligatory appendectomies in numbers of excisions performed .. I wonder how do the medical authorities recycle these pieces of meat?

The scourge of meta amphetamine (‘P’), the crack, the cocaine the heroin and all the other drugs of addiction are all medical constructs from this grotesque system, which probes the very fabric of life. We are daily fed a diet of the dubious success stories but nothing is said about the line of hearses at the back door of the hospitals in the small hours of the morning.

Carefully spaced press releases that appear to give a glimmer of hope for the terminally afflicted, are a regular feature in both America and Britain. Daily we are fed juicy tidbits.
The fight against cancer is yielding results; we are now able to offer a 5 year survival rate, a spokesperson said.
Heart and Lung transplant patient passed away, a hospital spokesperson said ‘it was a natural death’.
Young mum from Camberwell gives birth to 5 kids. A hospital spokesperson said that Daisy was sleeping off the effects of the drugs she was given.
Deadly super bug ravaging our hospitals. A Home Office spokesperson said, but added that the public have no cause for alarm. We have the situation under control, the spokesperson said.
The whole seeming normal impression is just a mask that hides another kind of agenda.
The current western orthodox medical system is an assembly line where standard patients are given standard and economically directed treatments which in themselves are a great hazard for the many who have had to cope with the side effects.

Reality is .. that the Cancer Quacks sometimes called Oncologists have the right to take your child off you .. they take you to court and have the court make your child a ward of court .. the Justice system turns the child over to the medical monsters who cut and burn and smash beyond repair the child’s immune system with the toxic chemicals and then send them home to die .. To assault a child’s already compromised immune system with the lethal treatment is a callous insanity, the authorities try hard to suppress such reports, but are always quick to report the survivors as some kind of success story .. many of the monsters who perform these medieval torture routines have stated categorically that they themselves would be unwilling to undergo the treatment .. perhaps they know something that the rest of us are not privy to.

How many people who have tried to pursue a medical malpractice matter, have found that their medical documents have mysteriously disappeared or that there was a fire which destroyed them .. or even hopefully pursued the matter via Government appointed watchdogs like the Ombudsman system .. to find out too late that these organizations are the interior decorators for this murderous cabal and whose major funding comes from some very doubtful quarters. Conflicts of Interest -R- Us.

At regular intervals another scientifically created disease is released in the slums and ghetto’s of the world .. via dripping needles and poison pills as they experiment on a destitute and hapless peoples .. more money to fight this disease, and more money to fight that disease. Cancer societies and the ever burgeoning affliction societies .. people really should examine where much of the funding is coming from .. it does not all come from the relatives of an afflicted person .. the bulk of such funds received go to support the societies and the Pharmageddon propaganda. not to compensating the victims.

Any shortfall in funds after the public begging day ritual has been performed, is provided by a benevolent pharmaceutical company .. not with altruistic motives .. after all, the malady funded, was probably caused by the drugs prescribed or at the very least, by a nice little line of experimental drugs of very doubtful provenance .. the well documented rigged clinical trials and withheld information and horrific side effects and long drawn out legal battles, or out of court settlements only serves to highlight this Criminal activity. In terms of our usury economics system this kind of behavior makes perfect business sense, a captive medical market is very good for the shareholders who have no conscience above their bank balance.

If you happen to be one of the milch humans that frequent the Temples (Pharmacies) of Pharmageddon then I feel truly distraught for your predicament as captives of this monstrous system .. because I know that they rule you by fear and dissonance .. some of the elderly are on 10 different medications in a 12 hour period. What an imposition on a frail body.

The public are expected to believe that the Pharmacist sits down with the drugs and balance half lives and interactions and dose. Only research and hospital pharmacists do that for experimental purposes in the inner sanctum .. those who front the Temple Gate, usually follows the Doctors Rx unless it is so obviously skewed they do not question.

They always have the Doctors standard dosage in stock because they are drug pushers of Pharmageddon, they have a one size fits all system to which the medical establishment is subservient.

We all know who the pharmaceutical companies are, and also their links to the earth poisons and atmosphere poisons .. even into the kings chamber. I think Karen Silkwood died in vain in spite of the screaming questions that emanated from her death. The people chose employment over lethal contamination .. this is understandable for they are probably in debt to the system, with no way out except in.

This is not a choice .. it is a heads I win and tails you lose situation .. coercion that purposely uses cognitive dissonance as a tool. A mind rape!. These are also the tools of Political Zionism. The medical establishment, the pharmacists, doctors, specialists, surgeons and psychiatrists along with medical academia are subservient to the Pharmaceutical Junta. The Merc Manual. Text books on pharmacognosy are crammed full of the weird shaped chemical heads. Strange tails, and misshapen arms of molecules unknown in nature .. a gigantic experiment upon the peoples .. welcome to the world of ‘Synthesis’ .. medical science still has to borrow from nature for the template and in the taking have learnt nothing since Paracelsus and Culpeper.
The death toll of this control system may never be accurately known, however an excellent coverage of the available documents with a good analysis was published ..

DEATH BY MEDICINE
October 2003
Gary Null PhD, Carolyn Dean MD ND,
Martin Feldman MD, Debora Rasio MD,
Dorothy Smith PhD.

If you Google Death by Medicine that will pull up the study for you. Their dedicated work in this area is valuable evidence that all is not as it appears. And the figures revealed are sure to be just the tip of that proverbial iceberg. Because it takes a brave person to jeopardize a career that was so hard won .. “Sir I did not mean to kill them .. it was human error” . The system is always on the prowl for sacrificial lambs .. someone that the mob can stone to relieve the angst .. whilst at the same time the system appears white and clean in their feigned moral outrage at this rank betrayal of a sacred trust .. this is coercion .. by its methods it seeks to conceal the facts by a de-facto blackmail. Blackmail is a criminal offence.

Then we have this pernicious practice of vaccination whereby filth is pumped into a babies body based on Pasteur’s Germ Theory .. A theory which has long since been discredited. The statistics that they publish as their proof of efficacy are nothing more than massaged frauds that may be added to the rest of the fraudulent clinical trials which are being uncovered almost daily and certainly by the week.

The methods of analyzing the data obtained are woefully inadequate, the confidence that is placed in mathematical formulae, that at the best can only handle a mere handful of variables against the complexity of each individual human frame is sadly misplaced .. once again we are being ruled by numbers that have not the slightest relevance, except as tools for the propaganda with which they dazzle blinded eyes.

The calls for justice by the parents of vaccine damaged children are ignored as they routinely follow the prevailing dogma and invariably produce the ultimate whitewash by the use of the sacred mantra .. ‘there is no scientific evidence’ .. Do these people really believe that they sit on the right hand of God?

The evidence is in the afflicted .. the unheard millions who they ignore as though they did not exist, and daily they consign hundreds of thousands of children to a life of ill health by the use of this sacrificial ritual .. I have never understood how one unvaccinated child could jeopardize the lives of hundreds of vaccinated children .. because if this particular piece of junk dissonance is correct then the whole explanation for this nasty practice is collapsed and exposed for what it is.

“As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, and as far as they are certain,
they do not refer to reality”.
Albert Einstein

I thoroughly sympathize with those parents who grapple with the cognitive dissonance and fear for their Childs life .. of what might happen if they don’t .. I have looked at innumerable photographs of children screaming blue murder at this overwhelming assault on an unformed immune system .. and to this unmistakable display of outraged betrayal,. The medical on costs for the vaccinated must be substantial because it is the medically compromised children that are shoveled into the synthetics system broiler house .. rear them like young chicks surround them with the system .. saddle them with health problems or saddle them with debt at the start of their productive lives in order to support a student loan .. people are badly abused even as they support the system that is sucking off them.

There are many who toil as part of this system .. some of whom have blown a whistle and were quickly ruined and disposed of .. they are the example dead bodies thrown onto the floors of academia and medicine .. the horses head of the Mafia and the mark of Zionism.

The survivors of this system need a strong instinct of self preservation to override the initial moral outrage felt, because a large mortgage and perhaps a family are powerful incentives, but some of them planned a withdrawal route out of the system into a more public spirited endeavor with larger horizons. Welcome to the ranks of Health Freedom.

I would also say that there are many orthodox physicians who obey authority and not their patients needs, as they feed the numbers into the system, they are the ones that succumbed to the intense indoctrination process that is given the name of higher education .. whereas the reality is .. that the cramming of the brain and the nervous exhaustion leaves no room for penetrating questions, just obedience in the breathless scramble to catch the hare.

Such crude techniques of indoctrination have been practiced for centuries by every society in the west. That is not education, it is mental rape for the purpose of conformity to a brand of dogma. The cry of Scientific and Academic freedom never speaks of the responsibility such freedom entails .. and hardly ever is that responsibility acknowledged .. and it is far from freedom for the exploited as they are coerced by laws that were enacted for precisely that exploitive purpose.

The square peg of youthful idealism .. find a cure for cancer .. save an African village .. or take the handle off a water pump and bring to the end a scourge of cholera .. well let me tell you, the system soon knocks that type of nonsense out of those youthful heads, because from day one, a relentless stump grinder is set in motion, whilst the lecturers hammer home steel wedges of dogma .. if Daddy is not rich, first comes the borrowing to find the impost. Oh and one must eat and care for oneself .. and of course pay for all of those extra books required, that one was not informed about.

So one hies off to hamburger flipping/serving job or washing dishes .. Work is the answer to the economic squeeze .. whilst others relax, you work in time that should have been devoted to study whilst you still had a freshness .. back to the campus at 10.30 or even later and wearily drag out ones assignment work and finally the grateful blessed sleep taken in the small hours .. and it all happens again and again and again.

This is usually the students first brush with economic matters of such gravity as wondering where was the next meal coming from .. I warrant that necessity will always override a stated curriculum .. The economics of being a doctor 101. For many of these medical students, economics 101 is a plague for them throughout the degree course which they are following, this is hardly conducive to becoming a top flight candidate for the ladder complete with a centuries worth of old boy networks .. because if one does not have a foot on that ladder, then one must be an exceptional person to escape from the mediocrity to which one has been assigned .. when the candidates are streamed.

As any student knows it does not pay to ask smart questions .. like those questions that point out that there is a brick missing from this carefully constructed academic wall of knowledge .. it is instant suicide to question a lecturer whose name is widely known .. beware of the Academic Expert.

The students are under potential lockdown conditions at the hatcheries .. which are swiftly imposed in the event of any protest, which gives lie to what is that these imposters claim, and their methods of enforcement by the use of thuggish mercenaries with short fuses is the evidence .. and neither have we forgotten the massacre at Kent State which was flashed around the world, just another rusty nail in the coffin of freedom and justice.

The graduate Medical Cowards that call themselves Doctors have abandoned any pretence of the Hippocratic Oath .. one of the provisions is the pledge to ‘First Do No Harm’.

It has surely not escaped the attention of these brilliant minds that their Materia Medica is totally flawed, extremely dangerous and compromised with lies and whitewash .. the medical journals are the coffee shops and smart eating places of academic snobbery, which is usually of the ‘We know best genre’ as the moral morons discuss in arcane language the merits of this or that killer pill and whether the risks outweigh the benefits .. how dare they decide for those whose risk or benefit it is.

They know what they are doing, that is why they have come up with the concept of
’Informed Consent’ .. this throws the onus of medical harm onto the long suffering patients and thus escape the consequences of their wrong doing. It should not be necessary for me to point out that these Doctors spent years learning the chemical and medical language and yet expect a patient to be an instant expert, as in ‘informed consent’ .. What despicable people they are .. there is no hypocrite like the Hippocratic hypocrite.

Neither system will give a nod or a wink to dissenters and the underlings always look discretely away as the Junta stones another dissenter .. ruining the victims reputation which effectively leaves them without a livelihood in their chosen field .. this nasty and vicious behavior should be denounced for what it is .. Academic Zionism at work, and it is occurring with increasing regularity whilst the monsters continue to tighten the grip around our collective throats. Zionism in whatever form it appears is a medieval negation of justice and the right .. we do not have to sacrifice more children or shed anymore blood and tears .. all we need to do is to stop giving them our patronage .. there are far superior systems of health care available and at a fraction of the cost.

The Queen of England makes use of Homeopathy. She has no use for the medical smear and propaganda .. she gets the best medical advice that money and privilege can buy. That is why she uses Homoeopathy, which of course is as a system of medicine drawing close in numbers to the so called scientific medicine. That is why we have so much foamy mouthed blathering about the modality.

And so the wider agenda emerges.

Good luck with the revolution, Ivor.

Did the truth hurt Neo ?

What I have described applies to any power structure .. they start off with good intent but they leave the soul (Vitalism) out of the nimerology and the little seed of greed and the little seed of their overweening arrogance grow into mighty tree,s that shade out the sun.

Ivan Illich is a little ahead of his time, in the same way that Orwell was 30 years out. But he was right.

Neo .. arrogance is a form of blindness .. all robber barons suffer from it ..

Pissing on the Taliban eh ! ROFLMAO … A Wildcat by the tail and pretty soon they are gonna have to let go ROFLMAO !

Ivor puts forward the Queen as a reputable judge of matters medical and scientific!
Yeah right.

Go here for the facts about homeopathy…

http://xtaldave.wordpress.com/2011/04/14/100-facts11-about-homeopathy/

BTW Ivor, ageofautism.com is hardly a reputable source. Ha ha ha. Pull the other one.

Put anyone off immunizing their kids today Jas? (which is just polite way of asking if you have contributed to the death of any children today).

Funny you would ask that gary because i believe i have stopped a friend whose girlfriend is 5 months pregnant from vaccine poison,mind you they where in two minds about it anyway so a few truths from real doctors will at least give them the opportunity to make a informed decision

I forget gary, is it the children that have been vaccinated or the children that haven’t been vaccinated that are in danger??

Garry my little pinhead .. the Age of autism is the home of vaccine damaged children and is a premier site which is steadily hammering home the stake into Dracula’s heart.

As an individual here you have no credibility with your propaganda, Troll. The Queen of England is just another parasite .. but the point being that the money and power ensure the best of everything. Including Medical Advisers.

You blather on about Homeopathy and display your magnificent intellect, and yet you have never tried it, Troll .. wow I hope your stupidity is not contagious, Troll.

You talk about contributing to the death of any children today .. Your effrontery is breathtaking .. Everybody will know how many children have been killed and who by, including names and addresses.

I expect a few outraged mums will have your nuts in a steadily tightening vice and your scrotum for a purse. Troll.

I am sure that Medical Zionism gave you plenty to fulminate about but then the truth for your kind is always hard to swallow eh ? Troll.

They know what they are doing, that is why they have come up with the concept of ’Informed Consent’ .. this throws the onus of medical harm onto the long suffering patients and thus escape the consequences of their wrong doing.

It should not be necessary for me to point out that these Doctors spent years learning the chemical and medical language and yet expect a patient to be an instant expert, as in ‘informed consent’ .. What despicable people they are .. there is no hypocrite like the Hippocratic hypocrite.

There is no proof that Vaccination works .. it is impossible to prove ..

oh of course the numerology AKA statistical analysis .. Statistical analysis could make Gary appear intelligent,

but vaccination kills and maims not prevents ..

There is plenty of proof around to present a prima facie case in the highest courts in the land.

The medical fascists think they have been granted immunity from prosecution .. I sure hope that people do not decide to take the law into their own hands .. one could not blame them, I think they are getting tired of being pissed on Garry Boyo .. and sooner or later the bastards have to let go the wildcats tail.

Another babies death .. another vaccine horror story .. See what you support Garry ..

http://vactruth.com/2012/01/19/baby-dies-after-first-shots/

Patrick Willis does Les Visible’s “The Forces of the Last Gasp, on Meat Street.”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cqZffMZ_w8

Enjoy

“There is no proof that Vaccination works .. it is impossible to prove ..

oh of course the numerology AKA statistical analysis .. Statistical analysis could make Gary appear intelligent,

but vaccination kills and maims not prevents ..

There is plenty of proof around to present a prima facie case in the highest courts in the land.”

Riiiiiiiight…..

So the figures which purport to show a benefit for vaccination are “numerology”, and vaccination working is “impossible to prove”…

How exactly are you going to show in court that vaccination maims, if not through the use of “numerology”, as you put it?

“They know what they are doing, that is why they have come up with the concept of ’Informed Consent’ .. this throws the onus of medical harm onto the long suffering patients and thus escape the consequences of their wrong doing.

It should not be necessary for me to point out that these Doctors spent years learning the chemical and medical language and yet expect a patient to be an instant expert, as in ‘informed consent’ .. What despicable people they are .. there is no hypocrite like the Hippocratic hypocrite.”
________________________

You are delusional, Ivor.

Informed consent does not require a patient to be an “expert”. It requires them to understand what the problem is, what options are available, and what the pros and cons of those options are. Do you seriously consider this “expert” level knowledge?

What would you consider to be a viable alternative to “informed consent”?

Going back 100 years to when patients had no input or decision making with regards to treatment options for their conditions?

I’m waiting for your answer with bated breath.

“Did the truth hurt Neo ?”

No, but it reinforced a few judgements I had already made.

“Funny you would ask that gary because i believe i have stopped a friend whose girlfriend is 5 months pregnant from vaccine poison,mind you they where in two minds about it anyway so a few truths from real doctors will at least give them the opportunity to make a informed decision

What do you consider a “real” doctor, Jas?

You are the delusional one Neo Ozzelem..

This is not a University Classroom or Forum .. you or any of the other Ozzelem birds that frequent these forums do not set the rules or parameters for the usual faux medical debates..

The bull about discussing a persons options is all about discussing the medical mans options which are extremely limited as they themselves are in what they are allowed to say .. and you flock of ozzelem birds need to get back to .. ‘first do no harm’ ..

It involves being truthful Neo which you people rarely are .. but then having had your head severely done in with the so called education, what does one expect? Nothing but flocks and flocks of oozelem birds!

Prove in a court of law ? Show the Judge the victims of the murderous practices and quote the number of dead bodies .. And the proven deaths from the experiments, but then you thicko,s refuse to accept responsibility for what you have done .. and there is no proof that demonstrates the efficacy of the dripping needles .. Statistical analysis has been analyzed and shown to be a faulty premise (Plos Medicine).. Gold Standard indeed !

I will post another report of just how delusional these people are .. and what has been said it criminal and its about time theses criminals are dealt to.

It is difficult to imagine a more NAZI mindset .. this is what they breed in the Universities .. they and their ilk need confining in canvas jackets in rubber walled cells and force fed their own recommendations .. The story illustrates what they think of us ========================

AMA journal article suggests mandating participation in experimental vaccine trials ‘for the greater good’

Friday, January 20, 2012 by: Ethan A. Huff, staff writer

(NaturalNews) Some of the most deranged and sociopathic individuals on the planet hold respected positions of authority in medicine and at institutions of higher learning, and a recent journal article in the American Medical Association (AMA)’s Journal of Ethics serves as a reminder of this disturbing reality. In the article, two doctors from Oxford University in the UK advocate forcibly injecting individuals with experimental vaccines “for the greater good of society.”

PrisonPlanet.com reports that Oxford’s Susanne Sheehy, BM BCh, MRCP, DTM&H, and Joel Meyer, BM BCh, MRCP, together authored the paper, entitled Should Participation in Vaccine Clinical Trials be Mandated?. In it, the duo recommends “[c]ompulsory involvement in vaccine studies” in response to a general lack of willing volunteers, many of whom are not exactly comfortable sacrificing their bodies and their health to have a toxic brew of untested chemicals injected into them.

The totalitarian viewpoint of Sheehy and Meyer, both of whom are members of the UK’s Royal College of Physicians, is nothing short of frightening. That any human being is capable of convincing himself that forcibly injecting another human being with chemicals, live viral components, and other toxins is a good idea, is a shocking anomaly in and of itself. But this scenario becomes especially disturbing when those in positions of power adopt this psychopathic viewpoint.

Clearly stated in their paper, Sheehy and Meyer believe mandatory participation in vaccine trials is no different than requiring individuals to serve on jury duty, for instance, or to serve in the military. They also believe that forcing people to take experimental vaccines, even when such vaccines come with obvious “inherent risks,” is an individual’s required duty to give back to society.

Perhaps the most disturbing element of the paper, though, is its suggestion that “increas[ing] the severity” of diseases will help to facilitate “compulsory recruitment” into experimental vaccine trials. Deliberately creating more deadly strains of disease in order to scare people into vaccine programs, in other words, is apparently considered to be a valid approach by Sheehy and Meyer, whose passionate worship of vaccines have led them to such a preposterous notion.

A little bit of history on vaccine trials — it was revealed back in 2008 that at least 14 Argentinian children died as part of an experimental vaccine trial conducted by British pharmaceutical giant GlaxoSmithKline (http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/88922/gsk-lab-fined-$1m-over-tests-that-killed-14–babies). Also in 2008, 21 homeless individuals in Poland died during an avian flu vaccine experiment (http://www.naturalnews.com/023665_vaccine_flu_homeless.html).

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/034706_vaccine_trials_mandatory_gunpoint_medicine.html#ixzz1k1ZfXCYt

Ivor, correlation is causation.

And the fact that the Queen has access to the best medical advice but yet still chooses to use homeopathy doesn’t say much for her judgement in scientific/medical matters.

I hope that she also uses science based medicine too. The science based medicine works and the homeopathy will do her no harm. After all, homeopathic medicine is nothing but water and will have no effect apart from quenching thirst.

neo you TROLL here are a small number of yes REAL Doctors you will ignore
Dr. Leonard Horowitz, Dr. Mohammad Ali-albayati, Dr. Rebecca Carley, Dr. Brad Burke D.C., Dr. James A. Shannon, Dr. Robert Jendelsohn, Dr. Archie Kalokerinos, Dr. Mary N. Megson, Dr. F Yazbak, Dr. William C. Torch, Dr. Richard Moskowitz, Dr. Guylaine Lanctot, Dr. Barthelow Classen, Dr. Hadwen, Dr. Allinson, Dr. Glen Dettman, Dr. J. Anthony Morris, Dr. Paul Frame, Dr. Lendon H. Smith, Dr. Buchwald, Dr. Jerome Murphy, Dr. Kris Gaublomme, Dr. Jay Gordon…and so many more!

gary you twat the royal family is not vaccinated and live longer than most (apart from those heavily affected be inbreeding)

http://sciencebasedpharmacy.wordpress.com/2012/01/11/super-cold-treatment-reference-spectacular/

Some references to homeopathy here. Please comment Ivor, I could do with a laugh.

Yes Ivor, I have not tried homeopathy.
I wonder if falling out of a plane at 30,000 ft without a parachute would be fatal ? Perhaps you would like to try that for me Ivor. I look forward to your report on the experience.

Fool. You don’t need to try everything personally to find out if it works or not.
I have never ring barked a tree but I am pretty confident that if I did, the tree would die.

Your comment that I should try your magic water cure is as ridiculous as homeopathy itself.

Jas, the royal family lives no longer that similarly well off families.

“ As an example, look at the earliest known work on the efficacy of prayer. This was done by Francis Galton in 1872. His hypothesis was that if prayer is effective, we should see definite intercessory prayer results that would show this.

He had good information for a statistical analysis, that of comparing the health and longevity of the general population of England vs. that of the Royal Family. In England at the time (perhaps even now), tens of thousands, probably more, prayed every Sunday for the well being of the British Royal Family.

The English kept good records of health and life spans of the general population along with that of the Royal Family. Comparing the life expectancy of both the Royal Family and the general population should show (if prayer works) that the Royals lived longer life spans than that of the general population.

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The reasoning would be that constant prayer for the Royal Family, if effective, would certainly contribute to that long life span. In addition, the Royal Family then and now would have had absolutely the best in physicians, hospitals and medical care.

The results from statistical tables were that there was no difference at all in the life span of the two groups. And certainly, the prayers of tens of thousands should have accounted for more weight with God than the occasional prayer for those of the general population.
“

Perhaps ten of millions praying for the royals to die a horrible death canceled it out you KNOB

Ivor,

How is it that you regard death rates in relation to vaccine injury as constituting proof in a court of law, and yet you regard death rates in relation to vaccine benefit as bullshit unproven “numerology”?

Is this not utter hypocrisy?

Ivor,

Have you actually READ the article that you cut/pasted the naturalnews article about?

Clearly not.

http://virtualmentor.ama-assn.org/2012/01/pfor1-1201.html

It does NOT recommend compulsory participation in vaccine trials.

It uses the idea of compulsory participation in vaccine trials to discuss various elements of medical ethics.

Perhaps you should do some more research before parroting other people’s opinions?

You talk shit Neo .. and you know it troll .. these nazi bastards in a nest of nazi bastards have no ethics. An honest physician or scientist would use themselves as the guinea pig.

I reproduce the criminal paper so that people can make up their own minds as to what these nazi,s have said ..
==============================
Should Participation in Vaccine Clinical Trials be Mandated?

Susanne Sheehy, BM BCh, MRCP, DTM&H, and Joel Meyer, BM BCh, MRCP

Few would argue with Bill Gates when he describes vaccination as “the most effective and cost effective health tool ever invented” (Gates is a Rothschild Agent .. Genocide)[1]. To date vaccination has saved many lives and has the potential to save millions more, especially if vaccines are developed against the “big three”: malaria, HIV, and TB [2-5]. Vaccine development, however, comes at a price that is not only financial but societal. The lack of animal models that can reliably predict vaccine efficacy means that development still unavoidably relies on testing of novel vaccines in healthy individuals. Given the often unquantifiable risks to the recipients of vaccines in early stages of development, clinical trials have traditionally relied on informed and consenting volunteers who appreciate the potential risks but still choose to participate for altruistic reasons [6, 7]. But relying on altruism alone to facilitate clinical trials is potentially unsustainable and ethically contentious.

In recent decades there has been a distressing decline in the numbers of healthy volunteers who participate in clinical trials [7], a decline that has the potential to become a key rate-limiting factor in vaccine development. Reasons for this decline are unclear but are likely to be multifaceted. One familiar problem is the payment of volunteers [8]. To date, the relatively meagre compensation that participants often receive could be seen to belittle and undervalue the contribution of these individuals to global health. The modest financial remuneration commonly provided often means that students and the unemployed make up the bulk of volunteers [6, 8, 9]. As a result, the risks of developing a health intervention that would benefit the whole population are carried disproportionately by some of society’s most poor and vulnerable. This is a situation few would judge to be fair or ethical. However it is hard to increase volunteer payment without creating financial incentives. “Danger money” is frowned upon as an inducement that inevitably clouds an individual’s appreciation of risk, limiting the likelihood that consent is informed [6, 7]. As a result, consensus has generally dictated that payment for volunteers’ trial involvement be modest and limited to compensation for travel, time, and inconvenience only.

If progression of promising vaccines from the lab to the clinic is to remain unaffected and financial inducement is an ethically unacceptable solution to the recruitment shortage, other strategies need to be considered. Compulsory involvement in vaccine studies is one alternative solution that is not as outlandish as it might seem on first consideration. Many societies already mandate that citizens undertake activities for the good of society; in several European countries registration for organ-donation has switched from “opt-in” (the current U.S. system) to “opt-out” systems (in which those who do not specifically register as nondonors are presumed to consent to donation) [10], and most societies expect citizens to undertake jury service when called upon. In these examples, the risks or inconvenience to an individual are usually limited and minor. Mandatory involvement in vaccine trials is therefore perhaps more akin to military conscription, a policy operating today in 66 countries. In both conscription and obligatory trial participation, individuals have little or no choice regarding involvement and face inherent risks over which they have no control, all for the greater good of society.

As ever, then, the debate boils down to a consideration of the “greater good” or the “lesser evil.” A key consideration is the risk benefit ratio—risk to the individual volunteer balanced against the benefit to society. Society is unlikely to accept compulsory recruitment to a trial for a vaccine against the common cold if the vaccine causes severe complications in vaccinees. Increase the severity of the disease in question, however, and compulsory recruitment becomes a more palatable option.

In 2009, initial speculation regarding the H1N1 “swine flu” pandemic set mortality estimates high. In Mexico where the outbreak started, authorities closed public and private facilities [11], putting the interests of society above those of the individual. Although millions of people were infected worldwide, mortality rates were quickly revised downwards [12], and a successful vaccine mass-produced [13]. But consider if this had not been the case. Consider an infectious disease with a high transmission and mortality rate for which vaccine development were possible but limited by a shortage of volunteers willing to participate in clinical trials. Would mandatory participation in clinical trials then be an acceptable policy?

The fundamental principles of medical ethics—beneficence, nonmaleficence, respect for autonomy, and justice—are, as always, conflicted on this issue. Given the inherent risks and common lack of efficacy in many candidate vaccines in development, the principles of nonmaleficence and beneficence would argue against the involvement of subjects in most clinical trials. Justice would reason for the fair treatment of all, supporting mandatory enrollment to help ensure that the risks of developing an intervention that could benefit all are equally borne by all.

Respect for autonomy, on the other hand, would recognize and maintain the right of individuals to self-determination and their corresponding right to refuse a medical intervention. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights upholds the rights, dignity, and freedom of individuals and the need to protect people from “arbitrary interference” [14]—principles that would inevitably be compromised by mandatory enrollment in vaccine trials. Health services depend absolutely on the public’s confidence and trust—compromising on respect for autonomy would undermine this fundamental premise and launch us on a precarious slippery slope that may be difficult to climb back up.

A more palatable and realistic option is a policy of “mandated choice.” In this case individuals would be required by law to state in advance their willingness to participate in vaccine trials [15]. The advantage of this system is that it could identify a large cohort of willing volunteers from which participants could be recruited rapidly without jeopardizing individual autonomy. It would encourage an open, noncoercive philosophy for tackling societal challenges without compromising individual freedom or public trust in the health care system.

But perhaps most importantly, as a society we need to evaluate our perception of vaccination. Any successful vaccine program by its very nature takes a once-feared illness out of the public eye. This means that the benefits of immunization become forgotten while side effects in small numbers of individuals fill the headlines. It is all too easy for sensationalist and unfounded stories such as that claiming a link between the MMR (measles-mumps-rubella) vaccine and autism [16] to instead take root in society’s collective psyche. Ultimately such a crucial public health intervention as vaccine development may become devalued—and only revalued once a drop in vaccination rates leads to resurgence of severe disease.

Perhaps lessons can also be learned from organ donation, where apathy and ignorance may be as much to blame for low donation rates as conscientious objection. If a concerted effort were made to increase public awareness of the success of vaccination, the potential of novel vaccines to improve global health drastically, and the important contribution that individuals can make by volunteering for studies, perhaps mandatory enrollment would not even need to be considered.

Death rates that are reported require no medical numerology and neither do they require the fraudulent statistical analysis, they stand on their own.

DEATH BY MEDICINE
October 2003
Gary Null PhD, Carolyn Dean MD ND,
Martin Feldman MD, Debora Rasio MD,
Dorothy Smith PhD.

It is a publicly known fact that Hospitals massage their death figures by sending people home to die .. look at the Cancer quacks .. one poor little girl was hounded by the Cancer Quacks to the point where they made her a ward of court .. they then tortured her, poisoned her and then sent her home to die .. the Cancer Quacks then quickly applied to the courts again to have their ward of court order anulled.

These people are unethical bastards of the first water and deserve to be hung there are many of them on record as saying they themselves would not undergo the treatment perhaps they should be tied on a gurney and have it administered before having their necks legally stretched.

Beneath Auckland hospital there are long rows of cells wherein live many insane people .. these people are experimented on, they have no say or no voice .. so the bullshit of informed consent is ignored.

These medical monsters can do what they like with these non people. I do not have to remind people who were alive at the time, but medical monsters were hung by the Nuremberg Tribunal for far less crimes that are performed by medicine today.

“Death rates that are reported require no medical numerology and neither do they require the fraudulent statistical analysis, they stand on their own.”

I see.. so figures that support your world view require less of a standard of proof than figures that don’t. Good, good.

Hypocrite.

“It is a publicly known fact that Hospitals massage their death figures by sending people home to die”

What an idiotic thing to say. In NZ people are NEVER sent to die at home against their will. If people go home to die it is the choice of either them or their family to die in a more comfortable and familiar environment than the hospital can provide. Altering hospital figures has nothing to do with it.

“Beneath Auckland hospital there are long rows of cells wherein live many insane people .. these people are experimented on, they have no say or no voice .. so the bullshit of informed consent is ignored.”

Bullshit. Between training and working I have, over the years, spent over 10 years in Auckland Hospital. There are NO long rows of cells underneath the hospital where insane people live and are experimented on. If you have some evidence to the contrary let’s see it.

It’s called Problem-Reaction-Solution or Problem-Confusion-Solution,1. They make Man-Made diseases which they then inflict on people. 2. Media informs the public of a epidemic with the backing doctor’s who are fund by the “Drug companies” 3. then they vaccinate the public which has the disease in it. why do we need to vaccinate? when our own immune system protects against diseases.

Riiiiight…

So measles, diphtheria, mumps, rubella, polio, haemophilus, pneumococcus, clostridium tetani, and meningococcus (all of which have been around for millenia) are man-made diseases, are they?

My, the ancient Egyptians clearly had advanced bioengineering technology.

….To say nothing of influenza, which in 1918-19 killed more people than died on the battlefields of World War 1.

Neo .. 10 apples are 10 apples .. and if I had to trudge around my platoon and count casualties, then I do not need medical bull shit numerology to tell me how many are dead and how many are injured. Keep on playing semantics silly boy but it cannot change the story.

I really do think you are very naive and if you are a medical man then you will understand what I have to say.

The Military is of the same structure as that of Hospitals complete with the ranks system, and each individual and what they know is imparted on a need to know basis, and if you were of insufficient rank or a different kind of platoon to the top dogs, to be privy to what went on in all departments.

For example we have the saw bones section whose arcane practices and procedures (except in very broad terms) are a mystery to the other rank and file. Just like the Psychiatric ward is an unknown quantity. The lance cpl,s Cpl,s and Sgts are the nursing staff who only know enough to tend the live stock and to recognize when they are sinking. (Live stock is a term that they use)Not in front of the patients of course but the staff rest rooms need recording devices to understand how calloused these people become. This situation does not apply to all but there is a rotten core. Some Pharmacists and some nurses are drug dealers on weekends and right in the Hospital.

The targets for the illicit drugs and the morphine are the terminally ill and those in severe pain, and even the street distributors.

I have seen patients where the flesh on the toes has completely disappeared and the bones of the toes held by wire to keep them straight and in place.

I was personally wheeled on a gurney through the corridor of cells beneath Auckland Hospital .. the cells were built into semi circular cavities in the walls like railway arches with heavy doors and reinforced glass viewing panels .. my immediate out loud reaction was .. what the fucking hell is this ?

I had seen and guarded cells like that before .. but I was trying to elicit a reaction from the two nurses steering the gurney .. Oh one of them said .. “We get all sorts here, you would not believe” but of course I did believe.

It surely would not escape your notice that they closed down Lake Alice and the pervert doctor in charge fled to Australia and has never been charged for his personal horrific sex crimes and Electro Convulsive Therapy against juvenile inmates .. Google Lake Alice but here is a most revealing site of what these medical monsters called treatment.

http://www.lakealicehospital.com/uncovering-the-truth.html

I recall whilst living in Dunedin in the 1990,s how Cherry Farm a psychiatric hospital was closed down and the harmless inmates moved into city boarding houses .. I have personally witnessed one guy go off the deep end .. and a hit squad arrived promptly .. severely assaulted the man .. held him down and jacked him up with a needle in the neck and he started to convulse and then passed out. He was then taken away and was returned circa 4 hours later in a Zombi state.

I wonder where they put the insane who have no relatives or friends to care about them, so in effect they are non people and no body will miss them and nobody to complain to because they may as well be in Gitmo .. these are the people that are medically experimented on .. they have lots and lots of guinea pigs so they do not need more as called for by those two medical nazi,s at Oxford.

You are a liar Neo or a fool or maybe both. Ozzelem Birds always fly in ever decreasing circles until they disappear up their own arse ..

Its dark in there .. just ask Garry and Neo.

neo you TROLL here are a small number of yes REAL Doctors you will ignore
Dr. Leonard Horowitz, Dr. Mohammad Ali-albayati, Dr. Rebecca Carley, Dr. Brad Burke D.C., Dr. James A. Shannon, Dr. Robert Jendelsohn, Dr. Archie Kalokerinos, Dr. Mary N. Megson, Dr. F Yazbak, Dr. William C. Torch, Dr. Richard Moskowitz, Dr. Guylaine Lanctot, Dr. Barthelow Classen, Dr. Hadwen, Dr. Allinson, Dr. Glen Dettman, Dr. J. Anthony Morris, Dr. Paul Frame, Dr. Lendon H. Smith, Dr. Buchwald, Dr. Jerome Murphy, Dr. Kris Gaublomme, Dr. Jay Gordon…and so many more!

SO NEO YOU IGNORE,,,PSYCHIC

experiments
Dr. Jonas Salk, inventor of polio vaccine, exposed as criminal-minded scientist who conducted illicit medical experiments on mental patients

Wednesday, March 02, 2011
by Mike Adams, the Health Ranger
Editor of NaturalNews.com (See all articles…)

(NaturalNews) Dr. Jonas Salk, one of the “gods” in the cult of pharmacology — a man who is credited with inventing the polio vaccine — has now been exposed as a medical criminal who conducted illegal medical experiments on mental patients. This fact has come to light courtesy of the Associated Press, believe it or not, which has been investigating the history of medical experiments as part of a press effort leading up to scheduled bioethics meetings in Washington.

According to the Associated Press, Dr. Jonas Salk co-authored a clinical trial that “injected experimental flu vaccine in male patients at a state insane asylum in Ypsilanti, Mich., then exposed them to flu several months later.” The victims of this medical experiment were described as “senile and debilitated,” meaning that obtaining their rational consent to participate in such experiments would have been impossible. And that means Dr. Jonas Salk — one of the most highly-worshipped figures throughout modern medicine — was conducting this trial in violation of medical ethics and in violation of the law.

Isn’t it interesting how the vaccine industry and its medical journal propaganda mouthpieces always hurl accusations at people like Dr. Andrew Wakefield, claiming he violated medical ethics for taking blood samples with consent, but when one of their own heroes gets caught engaging in criminal medical experiments involving the injection of insane mental patients without consent, they have nothing to say about it?

In the pro-vaccine cult of pharmacology, any researcher who concludes that vaccines are good for you is considered “right” no matter what laws they violate, what victims they kill or what kind of evils they have to commit in order to achieve their fabricated results. The vaccine industry, as we see throughout history, has openly allowed criminal scientists to operate its clinical trials — even when human victims were maimed or killed in the process. (And not much has changed since, it seems…)

The Big Lie about the polio vaccine
This trial involving Dr. Jonas Salk was, not surprisingly, federally funded. And it’s just the beginning of the lies and deceptions about Dr Jonas Salk and the polio vaccine. For starters, the polio vaccine was a failure and didn’t eradicate polio at all, but we’ll save that discussion for another story. Today’s topic is illegal medical experiments conducted by mad scientists working for the vaccine and pharmaceutical industries.

And on that topic, the true history of the criminal medical experiments that have been done in order to boost the profits of Big Pharma will absolutely shock you. As the AP reports:

“The late 1940s and 1950s saw huge growth in the U.S. pharmaceutical and health care industries, accompanied by a boom in prisoner experiments funded by both the government and corporations. By the 1960s, at least half the states allowed prisoners to be used as medical guinea pigs.”

This is the result of Big Pharma leaning on state authorities, of course. Where profits are to be made, human rights have never gotten in the way. In fact, as the historical record clearly shows, the U.S. government has repeatedly conspired with the drug industry to use innocent human beings as unwitting guinea pigs in dangerous, deadly medical experiments.

The history of vaccines, you see, is a history filled with criminal misconduct on the part of medical researchers such as Dr. Jonas Salk (and many others). These were not heroes of science; they were pharma-funded criminal minds who routinely violated the foundations of medical ethics in order to trick prisoners, mental patients and the elderly into serving as their medical guinea pigs.

The criminal history of vaccines
Vaccines are founded on a history of deception and criminality, and now even the Associated Press has realized it, too.

AP reports that in 1963, for example, “Researchers injected cancer cells into 19 old and debilitated patients at a Jewish Chronic Disease Hospital in the New York borough of Brooklyn to see if their bodies would reject them.” This was a pharma-funded experiment, of course, conducted by yet another criminal-minded researcher claiming to be carrying out “science.”

That’s the other angle in all this, of course: All these criminal, inhumane medical experiments were carried out in the name of “science.” Whether they were infecting blacks, injecting prisoners, or hiring prostitutes to spread sexually-transmitted disease (another true experiment funded in part by the NIH), all these criminal activities were carried out under the label of “science.”

The AP goes on to report:

“In widely covered congressional hearings in 1973, pharmaceutical industry officials acknowledged they were using prisoners for testing because they were cheaper than chimpanzees.”

Yes! Cheaper than chimpanzees! Gotta love Big Pharma for their cost-saving efforts, eh? This is yet another example of the mindset of Big Pharma and “scientific” researchers who put humans lower than animals on the value scale.

Now Big Pharma is conducting medical experiments on victims in developing nations
Several of the worst medical experiments yet known are described in great detail by the AP report, including this one:

“Holmesburg Prison in Philadelphia made extensive use of inmates for medical experiments. Some of the victims are still around to talk about it. Edward ‘Yusef’ Anthony, featured in a book about the studies, says he agreed to have a layer of skin peeled off his back, which was coated with searing chemicals to test a drug. He did that for money to buy cigarettes in prison.”

“I said ‘Oh my God, my back is on fire! Take this … off me!’” Anthony said in an interview with The Associated Press, as he recalled the beginning of weeks of intense itching and agonizing pain. (http://www.aolnews.com/2011/02/27/h...)

Of course, as many of these gross criminal activities came to light, the U.S. government was finally forced to put a stop to it due to public outcry. So the drug companies simply moved their criminal operations offshore where they now engage in routine medical experimentation on children in developing nations, usually by paying off top government officials in those countries to look the other way while their scientists and researchers unleash “pharma crimes” upon the people there.

This is how the experiments in Guatemala came about (http://www.naturalnews.com/029924_m...).

The long but true history of Big Pharma’s medical experiments in the name of “science”
NaturalNews, of course, began reporting on these medical experiments in 2006 when we featured a timeline of human medical experimentation in the United States (http://www.naturalnews.com/019189.html).

Here’s part two of that timeline: http://www.naturalnews.com/019187.html

In the last five years, the mainstream media was all but silent on this issue, failing to report much of anything on the pharma / government medical experimentation conspiracy until the Guatemala experiments were thrust onto the national spotlight in 2010. At that time, most people who learned about the criminal medical experiments carried out by the NIH and funded by the U.S. government were absolutely shocked… even stunned by the idea that this could have been done by the pharmaceutical industry or their own government.

And yet the Guatemala incident barely scratches the surface of what has really gone on behind the scenes, under the name of “science” and through the “conspiracy of profit” that has been operated by Big Pharma and the U.S. government for generations.

Dr. Jonas Salk was part of that criminal conspiracy, of course. Not only is he now implicated in these criminal medical experiments, but as you will see here on NaturalNews in upcoming articles, the credit given to Dr. Salk for ending polio is based on a fraudulent misrepresentation of the historical data — something that was intentionally done by the vaccine industry in order to convince people that vaccines ended polio!

The truth is far different. The “success” of the polio vaccine has been a 60-year lie. A the “heroic” stature of Dr. Jonas Salk has been a 70-year lie. This man was a Big Pharma criminal. And the truth about him — and his deadly vaccines — is finally coming out.

Watch for more reporting here on NaturalNews that exposes the 60-year lie about the polio vaccine and the supposed “heroes of medicine” who were actually criminal-minded scientists working for the drug companies and exploiting human lives to test their deadly chemicals and vaccines.

The truth about the history of Big Pharma and vaccines is finally coming out, folks. And they can’t claim it’s just a bunch of “conspiracy theories” anymore: This information is now being published in the mainstream media. And there’s a lot more to come.

Sources for this story include:
http://www.aolnews.com/2011/02/27/h...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ac/20110302...

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/031564_Jonas_Salk_medical_experiments.html#ixzz1k4FLks8R

Was The ‘Spanish Flu’
Epidemic Man-Made?
Sixty Million Dead In 1918-19
By Henry Makow PhD
12-2-6

In 1948 Heinrich Mueller, the former head of the Gestapo, told his CIA interrogator that the most devastating plague in human history was man-made.

He was referring to the influenza pandemic of 1918-1919 that infected 20% of the world’s population and killed between 60 and 100 million people. This is roughly 3 times as many as were killed and wounded in World War One, and is comparable to WWII losses, yet this modern plague has disappeared down the memory hole.
http://www.whale.to/b/makow54.html

Mueller said the flu started as a US army bacteriological warfare weapon that somehow infected US army ranks at Camp Riley KS in March 1918, and spread around the world. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/influenza/peopleevents/pandeAMEX86.html

He says that it “got out of control” but we cannot discount the horrible possibility that the “Spanish Flu” was a deliberate elite depopulation measure, and that it could be used again. Researchers have found connections between it and the current “Bird Flu.” http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4308872.stm%20

There was nothing “Spanish” about this flu. According to Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu%20

“In the U.S., about 28% of the population suffered, and 500,000 to 675,000 died. In Britain 200,000 died; in France more than 400,000. Entire villages perished in Alaska and southern Africa. In Australia an estimated 10,000 people died and in the Fiji Islands, 14% of the population died during only two weeks, and in Western Samoa 22%. An estimated 17 million died in India, about 5% of India’s population at the time. In the Indian Army, almost 22% of troops who caught the disease died of it.”

Yo neo, gary, here’s some more of your crackpot science for you

http://www.activistpost.com/2012/01/scientists-say-delay-breastfeeding-to.html

“Neo .. 10 apples are 10 apples .. and if I had to trudge around my platoon and count casualties, then I do not need medical bull shit numerology to tell me how many are dead and how many are injured. Keep on playing semantics silly boy but it cannot change the story.”

Precisely.

Which is why I apply to same logic to the fact that measles cases are very rare in populations with high levels of vacination, and when an outbreak occurs it is almost exclusively the unvaccinated who catch it.

No statistics required.

Got an explanation for that one?

Ivor – interesting reading about the origin of the 1918 flu epidemic – but it hardly supports Jesus’ contention that the diseases we vaccinate against are man-made and spread in order to make money for Big Pharma, does it? That was the point of my raising it.

What has eliminated polio from the developed world, if not vaccination? Please explain.

“Isn’t it interesting how the vaccine industry and its medical journal propaganda mouthpieces always hurl accusations at people like Dr. Andrew Wakefield, claiming he violated medical ethics for taking blood samples with consent”

Don’t forget the colonoscopies and lumbar punctures he did without ethical approval…

I agree with you that there is a double standard here, but these events are seperated by 60 to 70 years of history. Both in terms of clinical medicine and medical ethics much of what was accepted decades ago is not accepted now.

In the same vein, when were you wheeled through the bowels of Auckland Hospital?

“Yo neo, gary, here’s some more of your crackpot science for you

http://www.activistpost.com/2012/01/scientists-say-delay-breastfeeding-to.html”

Many thanks for raising the issue of rotavirus, Gerard. With rotavirus killing more than half a million kids annualy, the introduction of the vaccine is already having major reductions in hospitalisation rates in developing countries

http://journals.lww.com/pidj/Fulltext/2011/01001/Real_world_Impact_of_Rotavirus_Vaccination.1.aspx

As for the effect of breast milk on the success of the vaccine, further research has suggested that it is not a significant issue

http://www.pediatricsupersite.com/view.aspx?rid=91594

….so how exactly is this “crackpot science”, Gerard?

Research raises an issue which is investigated and information is produced.

Would you rather everyone simply made shit up?

“Would you rather everyone simply made shit up ?”

Is that what you see happening here on this website, neo ?

” simply making shit up” is how homeopathy came into being.

Jesus wrote, “…. why do we need to vaccinate? when our own immune system protects against diseases….”

Once against a vaccine denier demonstrates complete ignorance of how vaccination works.

Learn how vaccination works with the immune system here…

The human immune system is a complex network of cells and organs that evolved to fight off infectious microbes. Much of the immune system’s work is carried out by an army of various specialized cells, each type designed to fight disease in a particular way. The invading microbes first run into the vanguard of this army, which includes white blood cells called macrophages (literally, “big eaters”). The macrophages engulf as many of the microbes as they can.

Antigens Sound the Alarm
How do the macrophages recognize the microbes? All cells and microbes wear a “uniform” made up of molecules that cover their surfaces. Each human cell displays unique marker molecules unique to you. Microbes display different marker molecules unique to them. The macrophages and other cells of your immune system use these markers to distinguish among the cells that are part of your body, harmless bacteria that reside in your body, and harmful invading microbes that need to be destroyed.

The molecules on a microbe that identify it as foreign and stimulate the immune system to attack it are called “antigens.” Every microbe carries its own unique set of antigens, which are central to creating vaccines.

Macrophages digest most parts of the microbes but save the antigens and carry them back to the lymph nodes, bean-sized organs scattered throughout your body where immune system cells congregate. In these nodes, macrophages sound the alarm by “regurgitating” the antigens, displaying them on their surfaces so other cells, such as specialized defensive white blood cells called lymphocytes, can recognize them.

Lymphocytes Take Over
There are two major kinds of lymphocytes, T cells and B cells, and they do their own jobs in fighting off infection. T cells function either offensively or defensively. The offensive T cells don’t attack the microbe directly, but they use chemical weapons to eliminate the human cells that have already been infected. Because they have been “programmed” by their exposure to the microbe’s antigen, these cytotoxic T cells, also called killer T cells, can “sense” diseased cells that are harboring the microbe. The killer T cells latch onto these cells and release chemicals that destroy the infected cells and the microbes inside.

The defensive T cells, also called helper T cells, defend the body by secreting chemical signals that direct the activity of other immune system cells. Helper T cells assist in activating killer T cells, and helper T cells also stimulate and work closely with B cells. The work done by T cells is called the cellular or cell-mediated immune response.

B cells make and secrete extremely important molecular weapons called antibodies. Antibodies usually work by first grabbing onto the microbe’s antigen, and then sticking to and coating the microbe. Antibodies and antigens fit together like pieces of a jigsaw puzzle—if their shapes are compatible, they bind to each other.

Each antibody can usually fit with only one antigen. The immune system keeps a supply of millions and possibly billions of different antibodies on hand to be prepared for any foreign invader. It does this by constantly creating millions of new B cells. About 50 million B cells circulate in each teaspoonful of human blood, and almost every B cell—through random genetic shuffling—produces a unique antibody that it displays on its surface.

When these B cells come into contact with their matching microbial antigen, they are stimulated to divide into many larger cells, called plasma cells, which secrete mass quantities of antibodies to bind to the microbe.

Antibodies in Action
The antibodies secreted by B cells circulate throughout the human body and attack the microbes that have not yet infected any cells but are lurking in the blood or the spaces between cells. When antibodies gather on the surface of a microbe, it becomes unable to function. Antibodies signal macrophages and other defensive cells to come eat the microbe. Antibodies also work with other defensive molecules that circulate in the blood, called complement proteins, to destroy microbes.

The work of B cells is called the humoral immune response, or simply the antibody response. The goal of most vaccines is to stimulate this response. In fact, many infectious microbes can be defeated by antibodies alone, without any help from killer T cells.

Clearing the Infection: Memory Cells and Natural Immunity
When T cells and antibodies begin to eliminate the microbe faster than it can reproduce, the immune system finally has the upper hand. Gradually, the virus disappears from the body.

After the body eliminates the disease, some microbe-fighting B cells and T cells are converted into memory cells. Memory B cells can quickly divide into plasma cells and make more antibody if needed. Memory T cells can divide and grow into a microbe-fighting army. If re-exposure to the infectious microbe occurs, the immune system will quickly recognize how to stop the infection.

How Vaccines Mimic Infection
Vaccines teach the immune system by mimicking a natural infection. For example, the yellow fever vaccine, first widely used in 1938, contains a weakened form of the virus that doesn’t cause disease or reproduce very well. Human macrophages can’t tell that the vaccine viruses are weakened, so they engulf the viruses as if they were dangerous. In the lymph nodes, the macrophages present yellow fever antigen to T cells and B cells.

A response from yellow-fever-specific T cells is activated. B cells secrete yellow fever antibodies. The weakened viruses in the vaccine are quicky eliminated. The mock infection is cleared, and humans are left with a supply of memory T and B cells for future protection against yellow fever.

When a vaccinated human is infected with yellow fever the supply of memory T and B cells is immediately ready to fight the infection. There is no delay and the infection is destroyed before any symptoms can develop. The person probably does not even know he has been infected and he doesn’t become infectious.

Sorry Jebus, Ivor and Jas if all that is a bit to complicated for you. Science is hard which is probably why you have chosen to support simple witchcraft like homeopathy instead.

Vaccine Benefits
Once your immune system is trained to resist a disease, you are said to be immune to it. Before vaccines, the only way to become immune to a disease was to actually get it and, with luck, survive it. This is called naturally acquired immunity. With naturally acquired immunity, you suffer the symptoms of the disease and also risk the complications, which can be quite serious or even deadly. In addition, during certain stages of the illness, you may be contagious and pass the disease to family members, friends, or others who come into contact with you.

The Impact of Vaccines in the United States
Disease Baseline 20th Century Pre-Vaccine Annual Cases 2008 Cases* Percent Decrease
Measles 503,282 55 99.9%
Diphtheria 175,885 0 100%
Mumps 152,209 454 95.7%
Pertussis 147,271 10,735 92.7%
Smallpox 48,164 0 100%
Rubella 47,745 11 99.9%
Haemophilus influenzae type b, invasive 20,000 30 99.9%
Polio 16,316 0 100%
Tetanus 1,314 19 98.6%
*Provisional. Widespread use of vaccines in the United States has eliminated or almost eliminated infectious diseases that were once terrifying household names. Credit: Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, 4/2/99, 12/25/09, 3/12/10

Vaccines, which provide artificially acquired immunity, are an easier and less risky way to become immune. Vaccines can prevent a disease from occurring in the first place, rather than attempt to cure it after the fact.

Benefits for You and Others
It is also much cheaper to prevent a disease than to treat it. In a 2005 study on the economic impact of routine childhood immunization in the United States, researchers estimated that for every dollar spent, the vaccination program saved more than $5 in direct costs and approximately $11 in additional costs to society.

Vaccines protect not only yourself but also others around you. If your vaccine-primed immune system stops an illness before it starts, you will be contagious for a much shorter period of time, or perhaps not at all. Similarly, when other people are vaccinated, they are less likely to give the disease to you. Vaccines protect not only individuals but entire communities. That is why vaccines are vital to the public health goal of preventing diseases.

If a critical number of people within a community are vaccinated against a particular illness, the entire group becomes less likely to get the disease. This protection is called community, or herd, immunity. On the other hand, if too many people in a community do not get vaccinations, diseases can reappear. In 1989, low vaccination rates allowed a measles outbreak to occur in the United States. The outbreak resulted in more than 55,000 cases of measles and 136 measles-associated deaths.

http://www.apenotmonkey.com/2011/04/04/anti-vacc-despair/

Ha ha ha

Vaccination is a filthy habit .. many of the diseases that the Ozzelem birds quote were dying out naturally until being given a new lease of life by the filth spreaders.

Contrary to what these liars are saying any re-occurrence of the disease occurs in those who have been vaccinated, this is well documented. A natural immunity is conferred by nature for life .. if the immunity supposedly comes from the filth pumped into young babies, then the filth shots have to be administered at very regular intervals and the child is guaranteed to become sickly and require attention for its unfortunate lifetime. Kaaching Kaaching .. no conscience just deadening conformity to an evil agenda set by Pharmageddon.

Gary how many times do you have to be told that your degree in Knitting does not count .. I know that injecting scraps of diseased monkey liver also involves needles but surely you are stretching your expertise a bit far ?

Neo thank god you are not my Doctor because you are a demonstrated liar. Disease seems to always spring up in the previously vaccinated .. this has been adequately dealt with in other posts in this thread.

It would also appear that given things like the Lake Alice disgrace and the disgraceful remarks from the Oxford Nazi,s demonstrates clearly that this is endemic in so called medical circles.

The disgusting Godlee and her incubus Deere are going to get theirs, as will a lots of others. There is the little question as to how Deere got supposedly confidential information about the children involved in the trials.

The whole matter is clear evidence of what liars that you all are .. anything for money and decency runs a very ragged last with your kind.

It has not escaped notice how both of the Ozzelem birds never answer any questions or the charges laid against them instead they resort to the the usual Israeli Zionist Hasbarra crap.

This Neo reckons he spent 10 years in Auckland Hospital .. probably mopping the floors, so he was not allowed down in the Hospital Dungeons where they keep the Guinea pigs .. transferred as the old mental hospitals were closed down.

A cultural revolution is coming have no fear that its not .. 10 years digging slit trenches in a swamp .. food, gruel and vegetable scrap soup and a daily bastinado of the soles of your feet before you are double marched to the swamp …

Ah me .. dreams dreams, for what is left of my lifetime .. but it will happen in my children’s lifetime. Justice will not be denied. History demonstrates the reality of Karma.

Here we go again. The mythical non-existent herd immunity. The verified false claim that vaccines impart immunity. Is there no end to your drivel.

Ivor wrote “…. A natural immunity is conferred by nature for life …”.
How many of those only get life long immunity because the illness kills them.

Ivor, even a degree in knitting would get one more knowledge about science and medicine than you have.

why don’t you go outside and ‘play hide and go fuck yourself’ gary?

““Would you rather everyone simply made shit up ?”

Is that what you see happening here on this website, neo ?”

Not necessarily. Much of the stuff on this website is in areas that I don’t know much about, and it is interesting to see how people interpret world events to find meaning. Like any website about current affairs (including ‘mainstream media’) the opinions expressed probably cover the whole spectrum from completely truthful to ‘made up’.

Healthcare, on the other hand, is a topic that I DO know a lot about, having trained and worked in this area daily for 17 years. What I see on this website with regards to healthcare is frequently WORSE that ‘made up’ – skillful distortions and carefully calculated misinterpretations that push false agendas to pull the wool over the eyes of people who are looking for answers.

A blatant lie is probably more easily spotted than something that has a foundation of truth with layers of misinterpretation on top… and therein lies the danger.

Especially, for example, for uncertain parents looking for “the truth” about vaccination.

“Contrary to what these liars are saying any re-occurrence of the disease occurs in those who have been vaccinated, this is well documented.”

“Neo thank god you are not my Doctor because you are a demonstrated liar. Disease seems to always spring up in the previously vaccinated .. this has been adequately dealt with in other posts in this thread.”
_______________

What a load of bullshit.

Here is a small portion of the mountain of data which proves you wrong:

——
Auckland measles outbreak origin:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10733801

24 out of first 26 cases unvaccinated, remaining 2 incompletely vaccinated

——-

http://www.aerzteblatt.de/v4/archiv/pdf.asp?id=80869

13453 kids in germany – observational study looking at rates of Vaccine preventable diseases, infections, and allergy/asthma in vaccinated versus unvaccinated

Unvaccinated kids had three to five times the rates of measles, rubella, pertussis, and mumps as vaccianted kids

———
1) Measles in the US 2001-2008
full reference here http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/202/10/1520.long [jid.oxfordjournals.org]

Of US residents who got measles – 66% unvaccinated, 18% vaccinated, 16% vaccination status unknown

Of foreign visitors who brought or caught measles – 65% unvaccinated, 10% vaccinated, 25% vaccination status unknown

Vaccination rates were very high in the US (coverage in kids between 2001 and 2008 was 91 to 93% – and yet unvaccinated cases outnumbered vaccinated cases in US residents by about 6.5 to 1.. oh dear!
______________________________________
2) Measles outbreak in Germany 2010

full reference here http://www.eurosurveillance.org/ViewArticle.aspx?ArticleId=19605 [eurosurveillance.org]

Between March and May 2010 – 71 cases, mostly from one school
3 kids had had vaccinations
68 had not
________________________________________
3) Oubreak in San Diego, 2008

Measles outbreak in a highly vaccinated population, San Diego, 2008: role of the intentionally undervaccinated
full reference here http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/125/4/747 [pediatrics.aappublications.org]

Intentionally unvaccinated child acquires measles in Switzerland and brings it back to San Diego, where vaccine coverage is 95%

839 people exposed to measles
11 more people get it (confirmed by both clinical features and lab testing)
ALL 11 ARE UNVACCINATED
_______________________________________
4) Outbreak in Canada, 2007, where vaccine coverage is 95%

Full reference here http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/200/10/1602.long [jid.oxfordjournals.org]
94 cases of measles
68 patients were unvaccinated
21 partially or fully vaccinated
5 unknown

Paper’s conslusion:
“Despite high community vaccination coverage, measles outbreaks can occur among clusters of intentionally undervaccinated children, at major cost to public health agencies, medical systems, and families”
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2260220

25 vaccinated kids versus 25 unvaccinated kids in a developing country

2 of the unvaccinated group died of measles, one died of tetanus
No deaths in the vaccinated group
______________________________

Got ANY data to support your claim, Ivor?

And what exactly have I lied about? Please be specific.

Gerard – where exactly is your evidence for your statement about the “verified false claim” that vaccines impart immunity?

(cue: start making shit up)

BTW Ivor, could you please explain the term “Israeli Zionist Hasbarra crap”?

I think you may be getting your conspiracy theories mixed up.

@Gary .. click clack purl one click clack purl two click clack purl 3

@Neo .. you have been shown the figures you have been shown the damage. You claim to have spent 17 years in health care ?. That makes you circa 40 .. well you still have very much to learn young man, the spirited defense of the indefensible has all been in vain.

There are many thousands of web sites around the world all dealing with the same scientific bullshit that is being spoken of here and also many hundreds of thousands of people who have been irreparably damaged by this so called health care .. I suppose they are all ignorant fools.

The figures that you are quoting here are all medical bullshit ..

Try the figures in this one ..
DEATH BY MEDICINE
October 2003
Gary Null PhD, Carolyn Dean MD ND,
Martin Feldman MD, Debora Rasio MD,
Dorothy Smith PhD.

I suppose you even have an excuse for Salk ? Or the Lake Alice monster. Pleomorphic Organisms is a legitimate area of scientific inquiry and of course it gives lie to the vax bullshit .. Pasturd was a lying little creep who repented on his death bed and acknowledged the Bechamp was right.

I honestly feel very sorry for you because you are obviously not very observant. I have spent much less time than you in clinical settings but I could see through the brain washing used.

One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. it is simply too painful to acknowledge — even to ourselves — that we’ve been so credulous. (So the old bamboozles tend to persist as the new bamboozles rise.) [Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection]

The mountains of bodies, the illegal experiments, the mountains of women’s breasts and mountains of wombs give the truth of where you monsters are at.

BTW Ivor, could you please explain the term “Israeli Zionist Hasbarra crap”?

I think you may be getting your conspiracy theories mixed up.
===============================

@Neo .. oh no I have it very right and they are all connected, your camp does not understand who it is at the bottom of your belief system

The Israeli shit is just the door into the real controllers .. like just ask Gary, he knows what I am talking about.

Where one finds money and death as a pair, then there one will find the poisonous tentacles and of course money and death are the trade mark of the Vaxers.

When a system has to rely on coercion then truth is absent and medical coercion is the reason of this thread.

Please tell me how one unvaxed child can endanger the lives of a hundred fully vaxed children ?

“The figures that you are quoting here are all medical bullshit ..”

I think we have a futile argument here Ivor. I regard these figures as speaking for themselves, much like you casualties in a platoon example.
___________

“@Neo .. oh no I have it very right and they are all connected, your camp does not understand who it is at the bottom of your belief system

The Israeli shit is just the door into the real controllers .. like just ask Gary, he knows what I am talking about.

Where one finds money and death as a pair, then there one will find the poisonous tentacles and of course money and death are the trade mark of the Vaxers.”

Well that makes perfect sense. Thanks for the clarification.
____________________

“I suppose you even have an excuse for Salk ? Or the Lake Alice monster”

Nope. I haven’t read the Salk stuff yet, but the Lake Alice business was clearly unacceptable.

I fail to see why the fact that elements of the history of medicine contains stupidity/evil/misguideness (like every other branch of human endeavour, unfortunately) means that all modern medicine is a write-off. to me that’s like throwing out a car because the tyre is flat.
____________

Along this vein..

“There are many thousands of web sites around the world all dealing with the same scientific bullshit that is being spoken of here and also many hundreds of thousands of people who have been irreparably damaged by this so called health care .. I suppose they are all ignorant fools.”

The fact that there are thousands of website doesn’t mean they are all correct! (instead it reflects widespread internet access for everybody with an axe to grind…)

If health care is so terrible, why are lifespans the longest they have ever been? Why are death rates after medical events like heart attacks and strokes falling? Why are vaccine-preventable diseases at extremely low rates in developed countries? etc etc etc etc

And perhaps a more pertinent question… If healthcare is so evil, what the !@#$ were you doing being treated in Auckland Hospital? (or is this an ‘internet only’ crusade that you are on)?

Straight up neo the shit you write is like a spoiled child,ignore what you cant answer and try to spin the rest,its soooo see though,idiot
But keep it up anyone reading this will see what i see,mindless TROLL

By the way the royal family do not vaccinate, please explain this
Whats good for the royals is good for the rest of us

Jas – how do you know the royal family don’t vaccinate? I couldn’t find this information anywhere.

As for me not answering things – what would you like an answer to?

I can’t actually find questions for me in any of the posts you have made in recent days, simply ranting and insults.

If you want an answer, ask a question. Its really not that complicated.

Ivor,

I had a read of the ‘Death By Medicine’ paper you posted – thanks for the link.

Clearly mainstream medicine is not perfect – no-one ever claims this. However a paper looking at the negative aspects of medicine is somewhat meaningless without looking at the positive aspects and benefits as well….

….unless, of course, the detractors of modern medicine have some magical system that will retain the benefits and eliminate the negative aspects.

If this is the case, lets hear your vision for fixing things. Somehow forced labour camps and bastinados to the feet don’t sound like they will improve health outcomes.

The second comment I’ll make is that there is a certain irony in you quoting this paper. In case you hadn’t noticed, it is chock full of medical statistics and data from all the leading medical journals, that in other posts you would be railing against as being corrupt ‘numerology’ from the agents of Pharmageddon, or some such shite.

Why do you regard THIS medical data and statistics as being valid?

Because you like the content.

What a hypocrite.

“When a system has to rely on coercion then truth is absent and medical coercion is the reason of this thread.

Please tell me how one unvaxed child can endanger the lives of a hundred fully vaxed children ?”

1) vaccination is not 100% effective – vaccinated kids can still catch the disease
2) kids can die from dieases like measles, whether they are vaccinated or not
3) data overwhelmingly shows that unvaccinated kids are more likely to pick up a disease and bring it into a population than vaccinated kids, like this for example
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10733801
4) unvaccinated kids can therefore put the lives of vaccinated kids at risk

Happy?

“Straight up neo the shit you write is like a spoiled child,ignore what you cant answer and try to spin the rest,its soooo see though,idiot
But keep it up anyone reading this will see what i see,mindless TROLL”

Thanks for your erudite contribution to this argument.

How old are you? 12?

As for the Royal Family – what did Prince Phillip do when he had chest pain recently?

He checked himself into a cardiology unit and had an angioplasty.

Not a homeopath in sight.

What’s good for the Royals is good for the rest of us indeed!

Auckland Hospital .. serious road accident .. I am not complaining about the emergency care .. but its amazing the things one hears when the minders think one is comatose.

Well of course you are going to believe the bull spin put out by the vaxers .. money, money,money ! The last thread as well as this one contained more than sufficient evidence of grievous harm and death from the practice.

That old saw about living long due to medical care is another piece of medical spin .. tell that to the people of Africa .. I cannot believe that you seriously believe what you are saying .. heart attacks and strokes are falling ??

How many of the wonder drugs have now been instrumental in the problems that they were supposed to solve ?? its been spread across the internet by all those people with axes to grind .. Are you so full of Academic snobbery that you cannot understand why the axes are being ground .. and your Academic trite dismissal of the thousands of websites because they have axes to grind .. I wonder why they all seem to be picking on Medicine ??

So Lake Alice is unacceptable ? .. well if it is unacceptable then what about all the other things that people here have been throwing at you .. If you have not understood why people are not more forthcoming its because its because of the Trolls whose paid job it is to patrol forums like this and they have a particular pattern .. like grammar and punctuation .. and ridicule. They usually provoke what these forums degenerate into.

What do you have to say about pleomorphic organisms and Pasteur’s acceptance that Bechamp was right .. The Microbe is nothing, the terrain is everything .. The pH of the soil determines what will grow in it and exactly the same analogy applies to blood. Typhoid will not grow in a healthy body and I recall one Medical man drinking a glass full of gunge in front of his students to illustrate that very point.

Pasteur upon who,s teachings the vaxers founded their brand of dangerous nonsense was wrong and once one has understood why he was wrong then the rest is easy.

Your excuse for the two nazi,s at Oxford with more coercion was mind boggling .. Ethics you say ?? you are not fucking serious are you young man ??

There is nothing like some soap and water and some decent tucker to solve many problems that you and medical science tries to claim the credit for.

Finally .. the Conspiracy theories .. I bet you have never looked down the rabbit hole eh Neo .. but then, on the money that you people earn, I suppose life is too comfortable, to wonder who it is that is fucking up your life, and then find out that there are no laws to prevent some very Satanic behavior on part of some of these people, who specialize in control to satisfy some weird part of them.

The whole world sits on the abyss because some shitty little ILLEGAL nuclear power in the Eastern Med who stole another peoples country and who commit genocide daily the American and British monkeys dance to the Israeli monkey grinders organ. Israel is all about the Rothschilds and the International Bankers .. its not about Jews calling the tune ..

I personally think that you are seriously misinformed as to what is really going on .. And I am obviously very foolish to think that I could debrief a brain washed mind.

Neo re the remarks about Parasite Two .. Surgery is not Medicine is it?

Once again you are being dishonest .. but you are probably feeling a bit rattled .. perhaps its the chains and the clanging of your cage that is upsetting for you ..

So neo you ignore my question again(imagine my surprise)i like the way you switch my vaccine question for an angioplasty answer,very clever for a child but yet again very see through,so i ask again and please try harder to keep to the question asked

The royal family do not vaccinate, please explain this???

Neo .. No shit man .. are you serious ?
============================
Please tell me how one unvaxed child can endanger the lives of a hundred fully vaxed children ?”

1) vaccination is not 100% effective – vaccinated kids can still catch the disease
2) kids can die from dieases like measles, whether they are vaccinated or not
3) data overwhelmingly shows that unvaccinated kids are more likely to pick up a disease and bring it into a population than vaccinated kids, like this for example
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10733801
4) unvaccinated kids can therefore put the lives of vaccinated kids at risk

Happy?
=============================

Wow Neo .. you are surely not serious? .. I mean well why bother to vaccinate at all because from what you have just said. it would be fair ti infer that 100 vaxed kids are a disease reservoir that threatens the rest of us.

Plus how did measles turn into a killer disease ??

The mums in our street used to run measles and mumps parties so that all the kids who hadn’t got them had the chance to be exposed and at no time were they considered to be life threatening .. but just a normal childhood thing.

No point in trying to reason with these morons Neo. They can’t reason … they never learned how.
Just carry on presenting the facts and I will continue to mock their stupidiity.

Ivor, you mentioned earlier that I understand your Zion rumblings. I do not … your posts are the delusional ramblings of an unstable mind.
Homeopathy, creationism, acupuncture, chiropractic. !!! Is there any quackery you don’t believe in?

Gary ……

clik clak perl one clik clak perl two clik clak perl three no repeat after me Garry is a paid Zionist Troll

clik clak perl one clik clak perl two clik clak perl three no repeat after me Garry is a paid Zionist Troll

clik clak perl one clik clak perl two clik clak perl three no repeat after me Garry is a paid Zionist Troll

Garry warry dont worry about Randi Pandi and his G string, leave the clik claks for the moment .. I also believe in pleomorphic organisms and that John Key is a twat.

neo answer:vaccines don’t work for everyone that’s why we must vaccinate everyone

lol well done neo,no wonder you don’t answer questions

ROFLMAO .. heh heh heh Good one Jas, I missed that one heh heh .. Medical science at its best again

gary the king of stupid has found a friend with the same logic
gary neo,neo gary
If you join forces your combined IQ will almost hit double digits

Ivor –

The data put out about the Auckland measles outbreak comes from the Auckland Regional Public Health Service, which is government funded – NOT vaccine comapany funded. Dismissing it as vaccine company spin is foolish.

As for previous threads showing grevious harm and death – no-one hase ever claimed that vaccines are 100% safe. However the data simply does not support the rates of harm that you guys insist (without evidence) are occuring, and must be considered in the context of vaccine benefits, which you guys consistently ignore. Until you see both sides of an issue like this you are limited to ineffectual whining.

In case you haven’t noticed, the people of Africa do NOT have access to a first world health system! Slagging off first world medicine by looking at lifespans in Africa is a bit stupid, is it not?

Pasteur? Beauchamp? Can I suggest that you move forward into the twenty first century?

As for measles being a killer disease – in modern outbreaks it kills one in 1000 kids. whether you consider this a killer disease or not is up to you.

You comments about vaxed versus unvaxed kids and disease reservoirs are a bit confusing. the simple fact is UNVACCINATED KIDS ARE A HELL OF A LOT MORE LIKELY TO CONTRACT MEASLES THAN VACCINATED KIDS. Personally I think the media overcooks the ‘risk to vaccinated kids’ issue. My kids are as protected as they can be, if you choose not to vaccine and therfore expose your kids to a risk of encephalitis, brain damage, and death it’s no skin off my nose.

Yes, measles and mumps parties etc used to occur.. but a small minority of kids died still from these conditions. Some of the older nurses I worked with used to tell me about wards that were full of kids hospitalised for long periods of time with brain damage from measles (approx 3 in 1000 risk)

“Neo re the remarks about Parasite Two .. Surgery is not Medicine is it?

Once again you are being dishonest .. but you are probably feeling a bit rattled .. perhaps its the chains and the clanging of your cage that is upsetting for you ..”

I have no idea what you’re talking about. Please explain.

Jas – learn how to read, brother.

Where is your evidence that the Royal Family don’t vaccinate?

(surprisingly I’m unwilling to take your word for it)

Me commenting on the Royal Family’s vaccination decisions when you havent; actually shown that they don’t vaccinate is a bit pointless.

“neo answer:vaccines don’t work for everyone that’s why we must vaccinate everyone

lol well done neo,no wonder you don’t answer questions”

When exactly did I say this Jas?

Making shit up as usual.

BTW I’m still trying to figure out how those damn Zionists managed to give measles to all the unvaccinated kids in West Auckland.

Those Mossad people are remarkably clever.

neo loser
1) vaccination is not 100% effective – vaccinated kids can still catch the disease
you want to vaccinate everyone
learn to read what you cut and paste neo TROLL

Neo Parasite two is Phillip and angioplasty is not medicine it is surgery ..
=================================
As for the Royal Family – what did Prince Phillip do when he had chest pain recently?

He checked himself into a cardiology unit and had an angioplasty.

Not a homeopath in sight.

What’s good for the Royals is good for the rest of us indeed!

Posted by neo | January 22, 2012, 7:32 pm

Neo you seem to have very naive beliefs when it comes to authority, well good luck with that one. I also know for certain that when certain drugs have been banned for the extreme harm they have done in the USA they are still being used in NZ.

I also note and I am sure many will remember when NZ purchased with Tax Payers money large quantities of a useless swine flu vaccine .. the vaccine was found to be useless in Europe plus the swine flu epidemic never occurred so we all had to stand the loss whilst pharmageddon were tittering all the way to the bank.

Ah Mossad in West Auckland eh ROFL

Something that you seem to have forgotten were the two Mossad men caught red handed stealing NZ passports from deceased infants.

Poor old Helen .. it took over 6 months to get an apology from the Israhell Government, with Helen whining about the special understanding between NZ and Israhell and that she expected better than that ROFLMAO

Just get used to the idea that the NZ Govt is an Usrael puppet who does as its told .. or else, an neither of those puppet masters gives a damn about us except as we can be useful.

So before you resort to the unmistakeable academic snide get better informed as to what is really going.

Neo ..Pasteur? Beauchamp? Can I suggest that you move forward into the twenty first century?
==============================

Oh do you mean Koch ? Rofl another dork.

Neo if one pulls out the foundation stone of Pasturd the whole medical fiction surrounding vaccination collapses. That is why it remains in place .. and that is why Pleomorphic Organisms presents such a threat to the vaxers but that is just another case where scientific displines rely on false premises and do not fit together.

Neo .. I have three children 2 girls and 1 boy the eldest 30 and the youngest 25 .. all three were GP deliveries in which I assisted.

There is not a vaccination between them nor any illness .. the only time I had any hassle from the authorities was here in NZ when the notorious National Women’s was still applying outmoded practices.

My wife had given the authorities a conception date 3 weeks ahead of the actual conception .. so we were able to go to the Drs surgery when the labour pains were 2 a minute, so there was no option to bring in the helicopter ..

The Doc had no option but to carry out those things that he had been trained for i.e he oversaw me because he had not done it before .. my wife always did it cold turkey .. no drugs or epidurals .. all was well but for the usual bully boy tactics from the district nurse re vaccination which we refused as is our right.

The nurses boss flew from Auckland in a Sea Plane .. hired a 4 wheel drive to get to us .. and then started to lay the standard fear trip that you have already used a little earlier in the thread .. you know the stuff .. your son will be liable catch any of these diseases etc etc how would that make you feel when your son gets such and such ..

I replied that my son was perfectly healthy and would remain so, but if he caught some fell medical induced disease then the person who used the needle had better move themselves and their family to a secret location.

There was nothing she could do because she had used threats against me and my family .. her face and that of her underling were a sight to behold lol lol .. the underling gathered up all the propaganda material put it back into the bosses brief case gave to her and they both flounced out in high dudgeon.

Vaccination and the lethal pills have totally smashed the specie barrier .. they have nurtured and manufactured deadly strains of various bacteria from pigs and chickens .. they have a real lulu with MRSA .. staph aureus was a relatively benign bug until the overuse of antibiotics caused a deadly drug resistant bug. Many who enter hospital leave with it.

The manufacturing and recipes for some of these vaccine drugs are really vomit inducing .. well thanks to forums like Uncensored the word is spreading ..

I will make a prediction .. those whose dietary and multivits,are up to scratch and unvaccinated will survive when pharmageddon releases the big one .. however around 50% of the population have had their immune systems compromised and they will be the first to fall.

Hopefully this time the shonky medical courts will be sidelined and we can get it all examined in a proper court of law.

The troll would hunt people down and force vaccinate them:

a more brain-dead idiot may be hard to find on the internet.

Igor wrote… “Neo .. I have three children 2 girls and 1 boy the eldest 30 and the youngest 25 .. all three were GP deliveries in which I assisted. There is not a vaccination between them nor any illness”

I also have three children, 2 girls and a boy. Ages range from 19 to 24. They all completely up to date with all the free vaccinations plus the flu shots. No illness. They are all healthy and highly intelligent.

So much for your anecdotal evidence Igor – proves nothing.

By the way, no one was vaccinated against the 1918 flu. How did that go? Many people die?

Flushed out of his crevice in such a short space of time!

and cranky as ever… must be the spam in his diet

Jas – I have not said that “I want to vaccinate everyone”. Like all other health decisions it should be an individual choice.

“Neo Parasite two is Phillip and angioplasty is not medicine it is surgery ..”

This is an artificial distinction.

I assume you are writing this because you feel surgeons are different to Big Pharma puppet physicians?

Angioplasty is a procedure done by physicians (cardiologists) who spend a lot more time writing prescriptions for Big Pharma products than they do performing procedural work.

Good luck leaving a cardiologist’s office without a script for a statin, aspirin, a beta blocker, and an ACE inhibitor…

Still waiting for that info about the Royal Family, Jas…

“staph aureus was a relatively benign bug until the overuse of antibiotics caused a deadly drug resistant bug.”

Utter bullshit.

Staph aureus (garden variety, NOT MRSA) has always been and remains a major cause of death and morbidity due to sepsis.

Relatively benign bug my ass.

“Neo you seem to have very naive beliefs when it comes to authority, well good luck with that one. I also know for certain that when certain drugs have been banned for the extreme harm they have done in the USA they are still being used in NZ.”

Such as?

“plus the swine flu epidemic never occurred”

Really? Funny, during the time this epidemic didn’t occur I was working in the ED and the ICU. I can recall seeing a hell of a lot of people with Swine Flu, including pregnant women getting critically ill and losing their babies, healthy young people dying from Swine Flu, and ICUs being loaded to capacity with people on ECMO due to complete respiratory failure.

Did I perhaps hallucinate this? Mossad putting something in the hospital water supply perhaps?

“The troll would hunt people down and force vaccinate them:”

More paranoid bullshit.

Garry,

you usually post bullshit but this one take the compost heap ..

By the way, no one was vaccinated against the 1918 flu. How did that go? Many people die?

What a dork you are .. I bet even neo is embarrassed.

Neo .. in the USA which means NZ tomorrow .. vaccinations are mandated in some States, people are not allowed to send their child to kindergarten or school unless they are able to show the card they are given certifying the full schedule of shots of the noxins ..

From your explanation of why everyone must be vaccinated, it is quite obvious that none of you know what you are talking about.

Pleomorphic Organisms make a nonsense of Koch and Co. You know that and that is why you ignore it.

Would you like to comment on Gardasil whilst you are at it and explain to us why all girls must have it ..

So it is quite on the cards especially in a tiny nation like NZ that the Trolls will hunt us down like dogs and like the Cancer Quacks (Oncologists) take your children off you .. experiment on them and then send them back to you to die.

Now these medical monsters have already had their trial runs to make sure that the legal doors are open that allow the monsters to do that. They also do things that were done in Lake Alice where the monster was buggering the young boys and giving them ECT and without any drugs to render it painless.

This monster has never been held to account. He is running free in Australia. One would think that the Govt after paying out hundreds of thousands of dollars in compensation would want his head on a plate as an example to the other Mengele mind sets out there.

Perhaps they knew that they would bring most of the rotten medical system down if the man blew the whistle on the rest of the monsters.

Neo .. Surgeons plus the Angioplasty people are rushed off their feet with huge queues of patients and inserting stents is not a routine matter because everyone and their arteries have very differing sizes and conditions .. The drug dealing is done by the pharmacists because the surgeons already have a known list of drugs to fit their one size fits all philosophy. So why are you telling lies again ?

Angioplasty is performed on an already diseased body and as a surgical procedure it has nothing to do with Homeopathy which is a very successful system of medicine.

What happens when the money starts to run out Neo ? Can you see the top dogs taking pay cuts so that the patients do not suffer .. I hardly think so .. what they will do is cut the pay of the cleaning and kitchen staff .. then come the nurses and then juniors like you.

Where its at, was well illustrated by the Dialysis controversy .. if you can pay, then no problem one may receive dialysis. I recall a high profile case in Northland where the decision was made on economic grounds to refuse the Maori man dialysis .. that is a death sentence.

I have a little article which I will post here Called ‘Medicine 50 Years On’. I was alive when it was first published and I have to say it is spot on .. the medical monsters have been with us for a long time.

Harry was spot on, I wonder what he would say about 60 or 70 years on.

The World Fifty Years Hence Harry Benjamin N.D.
First published 1936.

So Medical Science continues to look for the cure of disease along the lines it persists in believing to be the right ones and, despite all that can be shown to the contrary, it will accept nothing which comes from sources outside its own closed circle. The spectacle thus opened up of a world still dominated by orthodox medical rule in, say, fifty years time, is, to say the least, far from comforting. Imagine what a world it will be!

Every child will have its tonsils and appendix removed at birth, no doubt, to prevent these unnecessary organs becoming the centres of possible future infection! Each and every unfortunate infant will have doubtless not less than thirty or forty different vaccines and sera injected into it, to prevent it contracting any of the “usual” complaints of infancy or early childhood!

Everyone who has the slightest suspicion of visual deficiency (from age two and upwards) will be immediately forced to wear glasses for the remainder of his or her unfortunate existence much to the benefit of the optician and oculist of the day, who will no doubt wax fat and endow hospitals and clinics for the immediate fitting of all infants as soon as born with suitable spectacles to prevent future eye trouble!

New and ever more complicated diseases will be springing up to baffle the already overworked minds of the medical practitioners of the day and no wonder! The “common” ailments, such as colds, catarrh, indigestion, constipation, etc., will be taken as a matter of course, everyone will have them! Cancer, Rheumatism, Bright’s disease, Diabetes, heart disease, etc., will have been creeping up year by year to at length have reached colossal figures!

The yearly consumption of worthless medicinal drugs and patent medicines will have likewise reached figures of due proportion! Surgical operations will have attained such a pitch of perfection and such a vogue that it will be hard to meet anyone who has not left some part of his anatomy behind on some hospital operating table or other only to discover after it was too late that his general health is, after all, worse, not better, as he had been led to believe it would be by his medical adviser!

The general style of living and eating of today, not having been censured in any way, will have grown worse and steadily worse, so that people with good teeth or healthy bodies will have grown so scarce as to be almost impossible to find! . . . And so on, and so on, to an infinity of pathological horrors.

What a world it will be! And how are we going to escape from it, or give our children the opportunity to escape from it? There is only one way. Each and every intelligent individual must accept and put into practice in his own life, and in the lives of those dependent upon him, the laws and principles of common sense healing and healthy living set forth under the heading of “Nature Cure” in the present book. THERE IS NO OTHER ALTERNATIVE! If the world as a whole, either through ignorance or indolence refuses to rescue itself from the disease increasing despotism of orthodox medication, then each and every individual possessed of enough initial understanding, courage, and determination, and assured of the proper guidance, must do so for himself.

It is expressly for this one purpose to enable each individual so inclined to rescue himself from the fate that besets all the members of the human family who pay homage to medical suzerainty and authority that this present volume is intended.

Will it accomplish its purpose? That is for every reader to decide in his or her own individual case!

===============================
Harry was a British Naturopath with a huge following and has many thousands of successful healings in his case book.

Re the Staph Aureus .. every kid in inner city schools in the Uk got the staph .. cuts and grazes from rough tarmac play grounds and lots and lots of WW2 bombed buildings to scramble through .. the cuts and grazes inevitably produced pus and the kids would squeeze the pus bubble and even let the dog lick it.

The Aureus nowadays has increased in virulence .. Why is it now immune to most antibiotics? What happens when all the antibiotics are useless?

It appears to me that you are much younger than I thought because you have some extremely strange ideas and so far up yourself ..

The majority of the people who have taken the time to comment on this thread have by and large thrown a rotten egg at you .. have you not understood something ??

Well Igor, your mate Harry has well and truely been proved wrong with there being many more happy, healthy, long lived people on the planet today than there was when he was scamming people with his naturopathy bull shit.

How well did your stupid homeopathy deal with the 1918 flu? Not too well by all accounts you silly old fool.

Why don’t you just piss off back to the disunited kingdom and spread your poisonous notions there. That is not a question, it is a suggestion. This country doesn’t need ignorant uneducated fools like yourself polluting our gene pool.

” When I first became interested in skepticism and medical pseudoscience and quackery, I couldn’t envision how anyone could deny the germ theory of disease. It just didn’t compute to me, given how copious the evidence in favor of this particular theory is. It turns out that I was wrong about that, too.”

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/germ-theory-denialism-a-major-strain-in-alt-med-thought/

Read and enjoy, nut jobs.

Dear neo. I know from experience that some things are difficult for you to grasp. I’ll type slowly for you. If a vaccine makes a person immune then they won’t catch what they have been vaccinated for will they. Now use your scroll bar and go back through your posts and pay special attention to the ones that include information about vaccinated people catching what they were supposedly immune to.

G e r a r d, go back through the postings and pay special attention to posts stating that vaccination is not 100% effective. Fool.

The whole point of vaccines is, of course, to depopulate the planet through infertility side effects or direct mortality of those receiving the vaccines. This has been openly and unambiguously admitted by the No. 1 financial contributor to vaccine research around the world — Mr. Bill Gates. In an open, public speech recorded on video, Mr. Gates explains that vaccines can help reduce world population.

Specifically, his exact quote is:

“The world today has 6.8 billion people… that’s headed up to about 9 billion. Now if we do a really great job on new vaccines, health care, reproductive health services, we could lower that by perhaps 10 or 15 percent.” (http://www.naturalnews.com/029911_vaccines_Bill_Gates.html)

Watch the video yourself at NaturalNews.TV:
http://www.naturalnews.tv/v.asp?v=A155D113455FAC882A3290536575C723

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/034734_vaccines_McDonalds_infants.html#ixzz1kGl6gAy6

http://www.naturalnews.com/034734_vaccines_McDonalds_infants.html

“It makes me wonder, how would a germ denier explain mosquito-borne diseases that are controlled when mosquito populations are controlled, or only extend as far as the range of a particular mosquito species?”

Ivor, you dumb shit. Answer that.

Garry Warry how is the great Randi Pandy ? Have you finished knitting his G string yet ?

Clik Clak Clik Clak perl one Clik Clak Clik Clak perl two Clik Clak perl three

This is where Garry Warry starts again he can only count up to three.

Clik Clak Clik Clak perl one Clik Clak Clik Clak perl two Clik Clak perl three

Sigh! Garry Warry ..

G e r a r d, go back through the postings and pay special attention to posts stating that vaccination is not 100% effective. Fool.

Posted by Gary | January 23, 2012, 9:50 pm
===============================
Let me do this the easy way for you Garry ..

Ok vax is not 100% effective.

Let us assume a 100% vax rate.

Now that begs a couple of questions .. what percentage is none effective ?

And what do we do about those people who the vaccine failed .. do we shoot them .. do we quarantine them, do we do a Typhoid Mary on them because by the answers we have had so far the unvaxed present a threat to the vaxed and so this bullshit goes on.

Bull shit is your specialty eh Garry Warry ?

Igor, still waiting for an answer you ignorant old crackpot, “, how would a germ denier explain mosquito-borne diseases that are controlled when mosquito populations are controlled, or only extend as far as the range of a particular mosquito species?”

BTW it must be nice for you to have your knitting to help pass the time while you wait …..

Sigh! Garry Warry .. And yes we all await your answer with bated breath.

G e r a r d, go back through the postings and pay special attention to posts stating that vaccination is not 100% effective. Fool.

Posted by Gary | January 23, 2012, 9:50 pm
===============================
Let me do this the easy way for you Garry ..

Ok vax is not 100% effective.

Let us assume a 100% vax rate.

Now that begs a couple of questions .. what percentage is none effective ?

And what do we do about those people who the vaccine failed .. do we shoot them .. do we quarantine them, do we do a Typhoid Mary on them because by the answers we have had so far the unvaxed present a threat to the vaxed and so this bullshit goes on.

Bull shit is your specialty eh Garry Warry ?

“Dear neo. I know from experience that some things are difficult for you to grasp. I’ll type slowly for you. If a vaccine makes a person immune then they won’t catch what they have been vaccinated for will they. Now use your scroll bar and go back through your posts and pay special attention to the ones that include information about vaccinated people catching what they were supposedly immune to.”

Gerard, your phrase ‘verified false claim that vaccines impart immunity’ clearly implies that vaccination NEVER imparts immunity for anyone.

This is very different to a vaccine which fails to protect a small number of people – the “vaccinated people catching what they were supposedly immune to’.

Can you not see the difference here?

How effective is immunisation?

It is important to recognise that the body’s immune response is genetically determined. No matter how healthy a person is, they may respond very well to some vaccines but not to others. For example, one person may be fully immunised against measles after receiving the measles vaccine, but will not be fully immunised against mumps after receiving the mumps vaccine. Thus, in a given population, no vaccine will be 100 per cent effective: if a disease is prevalent in a community, some people who have been vaccinated will probably contract it.

In Australia, the polio, measles and Haemophilus influenza type b vaccines protect about 95 per cent of those vaccinated; the diphtheria and whooping cough vaccines about 85 per cent; and the influenza virus vaccine about 70 per cent. The new acellular whooping cough vaccine may be slightly less effective than the traditional vaccine made from a killed, whole microorganism, but it gives fewer side-effects.

A comprehensive vaccination program will limit the spread of a disease among a population, reducing the risk that non-immune people (ie, those people who have not been vaccinated and those who were vaccinated but whose immune systems did not respond to the vaccine) will become infected. This is known as ‘herd immunity’; eventually, when the number of non-immune people drops to a certain level, the disease will disappear from the population. For a highly infectious virus such as measles, about 95 per cent of people need to be immunised; for smallpox, which was less infectious, the figure was closer to 80 per cent.

Disease eradication

A global vaccination program can result in the eradication of a disease that only affects humans. This is how smallpox was beaten. It was declared eradicated from the world in 1980 by the World Health Organization (Box 2).

Following intensive immunisation programs, indigenous poliomyelitis was eliminated from the whole of the Americas in 1994, and the last case occurred in China in 1995. Indigenous measles has recently been eliminated from Finland and the Caribbean Islands, and in the Americas the only confirmed cases in 2003 were people who had contracted the disease elsewhere (Box 4: WHO’s Global Programme for Vaccines and Immunization).

What are the risks?

Like many other voluntary activities, such as driving cars or motor cycles, vaccination is not completely risk-free. The oral polio vaccine may cause poliomyelitis in about 1 in every million vaccinees; this is a tiny fraction of the number of healthy children who suffered (with many deaths) from this disease before vaccination was introduced.

The traditional whooping cough vaccine causes some side-effects, most of which are minor. It has been accused of causing brain damage in about 1 in every 200,000 vaccinees but the causal relationship claimed was not accepted in a recent UK law case.

In the UK in the late 1970s, the level of vaccination dropped from more than 80 per cent to 30 per cent following a media program about adverse reactions associated with this vaccine. Over the next 10 years there were two epidemics of whooping cough, each with some deaths and over 50,000 cases of the disease. By the early 1990s an intense vaccination campaign resulted in an immunisation rate of more than 90 per cent and there were very few cases of the disease reported.

The use of the traditional whooping cough vaccine was suspended in Sweden in 1979 because of safety concerns. Many trials of different acellular vaccines were then carried out in Sweden in the ensuing years because of the resulting increased incidence of whooping cough. Now, many developed countries, including Sweden, the USA and Australia, have introduced acellular whooping cough vaccines to replace the traditional vaccine.

Related site: Diphtheria in the former Soviet Union: Reemergence of a pandemic disease
A detailed account of the re-emergence of diphtheria in the former Soviet Union.
(Centers for Disease Control, USA) The massive outbreaks of diphtheria in the former Soviet Union and poliomyelitis outbreaks in Albania during the 1990′s also demonstrate the dangers of allowing vaccination programs to run down.

Vaccine safety has been examined in great detail in recent years by expert committees such as those convened by the US Institute of Medicine. Their findings show that the risks of side-effects are generally extraordinarily low.

Ivor, YOU are the one who has come up with the statement that the unvaxed represent a threat to the vaxed. Please continue the argument with yourself.

“The whole point of vaccines is, of course, to depopulate the planet through infertility side effects or direct mortality of those receiving the vaccines.”

Why then , o oracle of paranoia, are New Zealand children not dying in their hundreds of thousands after being vaccinated for measles, mumps, rubella, diptheria, polio, pertussis, tetanus, Hep B, and pneumoccus?

If this is a global depopulation strategy its a bit fucking useless really, isn’t it? The damn kids continue to LIVE!

“Neo .. Surgeons plus the Angioplasty people are rushed off their feet with huge queues of patients and inserting stents is not a routine matter because everyone and their arteries have very differing sizes and conditions .. The drug dealing is done by the pharmacists because the surgeons already have a known list of drugs to fit their one size fits all philosophy. So why are you telling lies again ?”

Ivor, I don’t understand what you are trying to say here.

Inserting stents is a completely routine matter. The Auckland region for example has at least 5 angio suites which would each stent at lest 8-10 patients per day. Sounds pretty routine to me.

“Angioplasty is performed on an already diseased body and as a surgical procedure it has nothing to do with Homeopathy which is a very successful system of medicine.”

I agree angioplasty and homeopathy are completely different. Whoopty-shit.

As it happens I also agree with your concerns about what happens when the ‘money runs out’. The NZ health system cannot afford to keep going the way it is, and in the future NZ society may have to make some tough decisions about what will and won’t be funded.

Your comments about Staph aureus are deluded. Staph aureus has always been a virulent organism, and was a leading killer during WW2 – not the benigh bug that you make out. The introduction of antibiotics reduced the death rate by 80%.

Contrary to what you say most S. aureus is NOT now “resistant to most antibiotics”. A minority of S aureus isolates are resistant to common penicillin based antibiotics, but are generally still susceptible to agents like ciprofloxacin, clindamycin, cotrimoxazole, or vancomycin.

“What they will do is cut the pay of the cleaning and kitchen staff .. then come the nurses and then juniors like you.”

I’m not a junior Ivor, I’m a Consultant in Emergency Medicine. Thanks for the plug for the Emergency Department BTW, “no complaints” is no doubt high praise coming from you.

What is your background?

I am amongst many things a retired expert bullshit detector and my expertise extends to many other areas apart from medicine ..

MRSA is now a threat to people in hospital. Multiple Resistant staph aureus is so dangerous now because it is a mutated organism and it mutated because a few smarty pants have messed with it ..

The mutations happen very quickly now .. misuse of antibiotics is probably the cause. As children we would just pop the pus out.

I have not a clue as to what a consultant in emergency medicine does .. but I will guarantee that when the crunch comes a lot of medical people will find themselves unemployed, and if you think that the Medical services are going to sentence thousands of people to death without a very severe fight then the Govt and the Medics had better think again.

What is coming is Homeopathy because that is the only system of medicine that can economically repair the damage inflicted by the poison pills and dripping needles.

The vaccines are used just to create more business for Pharmageddon .. Bill Gates is on the record as saying that vaccination can be used for population control .. I believe he donated a considerable amount of money to vaccination.

Aids was a deliberate release to a certain group of people in New York and of course it was created in an American Lab .. then just as mysteriously it suddenly appeared in Africa shortly after the New York experiment .. it devastated Africa.

Many of the people are totally impoverished and they cannot feed themselves but they can grow food for the rich mans table in Western nations .. Some western medical dick heads are over there with their dripping needles and experimental drugs killing even more Africans .. the medical profession is really macabre ..

organ transplants .. wow how very Frankenstein .. but it is good business hey. I hear Lomu was hoping for a second transplant but cant find the part needed ..

I suppose it is like the cancer scam .. we can offer a 5 year survival rate now but of course they omit to tell people that only a few last that long ..

Talking of cancer I have a nice little story of a NZ women Dr who had cancer of the face .. she tried what was on offer and it was just getting worse, so she hied off to the Gerson Clinic in the USA and came back cured. She made no bones about telling her patients, and treated and cured many of her patients .. so the NZ Docs trade union charged her and found her guilty of various medical crimes .. she took the bastards to court and won. I will dig the story out .. it is quite interesting.

Oh by the way Harry Benjamin was a prophet eh ?? But hey its good business.

Igor wrote, ” I do not have a clue….”. This is the most truthful thing you have written so far.

I don’t believe you retired from bullshit detection Igor … It is obvious from your posts on homeopathy, vaccination and evolution that you were sacked for gross incompetence.

I suspect that you have been on some sort of mental health disability benefit for years. Time to go home and bludgeon off your fellow Poms now.

“I am amongst many things a retired expert bullshit detector and my expertise extends to many other areas apart from medicine .. ”

Yep. Had figured that one out.

“As children we would just pop the pus out”

Also yep. The best treatment for an abscess or a boil is to get the pus out, and antibiotics are not usually used in this setting. The spectrum of the infection that you clearly have no knowledge of is the the sicker end, when the Staph is in the blood – 80% mortality untreated, and this has NOT changed since the days when you had dogs licking up your pus, MRSA or not…

“Bill Gates is on the record as saying that vaccination can be used for population control”

Yep – by IMPROVING child mortality statistics, so families have less children. After all, you haven’t actually got ANY evidence, despite billions of kids vaccinated, that vaccines are killing large numbers of people, do you?

“Aids was a deliberate release to a certain group of people in New York and of course it was created in an American Lab .. then just as mysteriously it suddenly appeared in Africa shortly after the New York experiment”

Evidence please? Or paranoid delusions?

“organ transplants .. wow how very Frankenstein”

Correct, in a technical sense, but saves lives, improves survival, and means that people don’t have to spend 20 hours a week plugged into a dialysis machine. Also NOT part of the private system in NZ, so NOT a business enterprise. You do live in New Zealand, don’t you? Or are you so wrapped up in your global internet paranoia that your country of origin has become irrelevant?

Looking forward to your info about the doctor with facial cancer – please don’t “forget” to post this…

On rare occasions when the troll tells the truth, he admits he is here to waste his opponent’s time.

Remaining exceedingly ignorant is easy for him,
because he doesn’t read most of the articles here or watch the videos that could pluck his head out into the daylight.

He is, perhaps, dumber than he was three years ago,
and too proud to ever admit he was wrong about vaccine safety:
which he knows next to nothing about.

His arrogance will catch up with him, that you can be assured of.

He would “force vaccinate” people, he has already stated as much, neo just doesn’t know his playmate very well.

Trolls are getting whacked daily on YouTube!

Their arrogance and stupidity knows no bounds.

That shrieking sound was gary running into the woods in his masonic underwear to pray to his owl god.

“Trolls are getting whacked daily on YouTube!”

If it’s on youtube, it MUST be true…

wait till there whacking on your door TROLL neo,gary,blue ring thinking
you have lost the info war,soon payday

—A Transcript of a talk given by Kihura Nkuba (Nov 2002)

“When I looked at the contra-indications it stated that inactivated polio vaccine and not oral polio vaccine should be used in situations where families had HIV – where there was a history of HIV in the family. And when I got this information I was really shocked because since 1984 Uganda has had a very difficult HIV and AIDS problem. In fact it says that if a child is inadvertently given the oral polio vaccine, that that child should be quarantined for four to seven weeks because oral polio vaccine is “live” and they keep shedding it between that period, and they could contaminate other people……..It (CDC) says that persons who have congenitally acquired immune deficiency disease -e.g. combined immune deficiency, blah, blah – should not be given oral polio vaccine because of their substantially increased risk for vaccine associated disease. Now, they continue: they say “inactivated polio vaccine and not oral polio vaccine should be used to vaccinate immunodeficient persons and their household contacts.” …..I rang the Centers for Disease Control and they have a line of experts that you can ask different questions. And I said ‘I am living in America and I want to go to Uganda, and my children have not received oral polio vaccination. And they said ‘No, they can’t receive oral polio vaccination in this country.’ I said ‘Why not ?’ and they said ‘Well, you can get polio from oral polio vaccination.’ ……So I said ‘What if I have a history of HIV and I receive oral polio ?’ They said ‘That would be really pretty dangerous. It could be a death sentence.’ Kihura Nkuba (Nov 2002)

“I was told by this preacher that when the government introduced the National Immunization Days in 1997, most of the children after vaccination started dying. The preacher told me that they had so much death that his cassock, that he wears to go and conduct the burial ceremony, got old. He said “I buried the children and my cassock got old.” In the same room there was one mother who had four children, and she hid one and took three other children for vaccination, and three children died and that one survived. Now when I went to do my presentation and I asked most of the people who were there – about two, three thousand people – each person had the same story. ………At the main hospital in Mbarara during that month of 1977 more than 600 children had died following polio vaccination. 600 children ! So even some of the timid medical practitioners who were initially afraid to come out, started coming out giving information and saying ‘Oh, we knew this oral polio vaccine was trouble because as soon as the child receives it, they get a temper-ature and their health goes downhill and there is nothing that you could do.’ “—-Kihura Nkuba (Nov 2002)

In Africa polio does not kill anybody and they say it’s very rare to catch. It’s really very rare to get paralytic polio. They say it’s in very rare circumstances, so what is it that is killing people in Africa ? Malaria. Every five seconds a child is dying of malaria in Africa. Now to get the dose of life-saving anti-malaria is about $5 but there is no government to give anti-malaria. When somebody gets malaria, if they have no money they even die. So the question I was asking and many people were asking was ‘If you really want to help children, why begin with a disease that they don’t have ? (applause) Why not look for something that is killing them and save them from what is killing them ?’ And then (inaudible) …………. ‘you know what, I like you very much. I save your children from this killer disease. Now there are no other diseases apart from this rare polio, so let’s go and fight that as well.’ But you don’t begin with the rarest disease and spend all the government’s meagre resources fighting polio, which is not a threat to most people, and then ignore something that is killing them in large numbers like malaria, like AIDS, like cholera, issues to do with sanitation, stunted growth – all the main things that matter to people the government was not fighting. Ugandan Kids Die By 1,000s —A Transcript of a talk given by Kihura Nkuba (Nov 2002) [emphasis added]

The rest of the story here ..

http://www.whale.to/a/nkuba_h.html

“If it’s on youtube, it MUST be true…”

If it’s on youtube, it doesn’t mean it’s FALSE.

Ivor, what a pity homeopathy doesn’t work against malaria , or anything else. It is cheap enough, being only water.

Which reminds me Igor, i am still waiting for an answer, you ignorant old crackpot, “, how would a germ denier explain mosquito-borne diseases that are controlled when mosquito populations are controlled, or only extend as far as the range of a particular mosquito species?”

JAS wrote “wait till there whacking on your door TROLL neo,gary,blue ring thinking”
Jas, you silly old woman, ‘there’ is not a contraction of ‘they are’. The word you should use is ‘they’re ‘ . Even the paranoid, deluded old Igor knows that. If you can’t work out something that simple it is no wonder you don’t understand how vaccination works with the immune system.

““If it’s on youtube, it MUST be true…”

If it’s on youtube, it doesn’t mean it’s FALSE.”

Yes Scotty , like this….
http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=NZ#/watch?v=ap_0uQDbZl4

And this….
http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=NZ#/watch?v=D_LODZ-cDv0

Or this …
http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=NZ#/watch?v=kqcYnOoAQjE

AND especially the last 75 seconds of this …
http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=NZ#/watch?v=kqcYnOoAQjE

Enjoy

@ Neo … here is what I have on Dr Eva Hill .. a most remarkable lady and one of the first female Doctors in NZ … Now her account is a perfect example of medicine trying to eat its own, because she went and based on personal experience against the dogma. as Harry Benjamin said they will accept nothing unless it comes from within their own closed circle ..
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Cancer and Hoxsey
Dr Eva Hill, a New Zealand general practitioner, went to Dallas, Texas, in April 1956 to be treated for a malignant cancer on her face by a herbal remedy. Her own guineapig, she had been asked by intrigued New Zealanders to study and report on the Hoxsey Clinic and its controversial therapies. She was 57, a widowed grandmother.
She was duly cured, saw hundreds of other victims cured by Hoxsey’s therapy and testified on oath to its efficacy at the Pittsburgh Cancer Trial in the late autumn of that year. At the trial’s conclusion Hoxsey’s therapy was legally denounced and banned in the United States.
Dr Hill returned to her New Zealand home in late November. In good faith and certainty she prescribed the therapy she’d learnt to New Zealand and Australian cancer victims with astonishing success. Asked to report publicly on her experience and cure, she did. For this she was summoned and convicted by a magistrate for breaching Health Department rules. A year later the conviction, on appeal, was quashed.
Almost twenty years have passed. Dr Hill, now in her mid-seventies but still alert and vigorous as many women half her age, is still a practising physician with a home in Hamilton.
Patients call on her, or are referred to her by specialists, or telephone, or write, from many countries of the Western World. For those who will accept it she prescribes a therapy which to a layman seems to incorporate a discipline of life. This she has evolved not only from what she learned in the United States, but from fifty years of medical experience as a GP.
‘Disease is no mystery,’ she cheerfully remarks. And, of the so-called ‘degenerative’ ills that increasingly seem to plague civlised mankind: ‘You are only what you eat and drink and otherwise absorb.’
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She firmly insists that cancer is but one of the degenerative ills afflicting those who eat and drink ‘unnatural’ foods doused with pesticides and reared on or cultivated in depleted soils. ‘I’ve been a member of the British Soil Association since it was founded. I also studied what they were up to in this all-important field in the United States in 1956.’
A vegetarian for the past several years, Dr Hill does not deter those who insist on eating meat, bur urges moderation and disapproves of salt. ‘Sodium chloride is a poison,’ she declares as she has publicly declared of sodium fluoride as an additive to civic reservoirs. ‘Rat poison. It may harden tooth enamel but it softens brains.’ Tested on many hundreds of her patients who have responded with a new lease on life, and her own best testimonial, she expresses her philosophy — or therapeutic disciplines – with the assurance of success.
As for the cancer treatment she observed and studied in America, she exclaims ‘There have been in modern times enlightened practitioners, and even cancer specialists, who have treated this disease with medicine. Hoxsey cited some of them, to no avail. I myself have often cited Gerson, a New York specialist, and Forbes Ross, a Scot. He gave his cancer patients in the UK potassium compounds with remarkable success. But why only cancer? In my Dunedin days I had a very wise professor of medicine named Fitchett who often used to say “When in doubt prescribe potassium iodide”.’
Of Hoxsey she declares: ‘He was right, but he’s been out of it for years.’ In fact, it could be that Hoxsey’s name is a clinical embarrassment, for she cites patients who from time to time insist on a ‘Hoxsey treatment’ when they need something else.
‘One man in Australia on my recent visit there showed me “Hoxsey prescriptions’ that were being made up for him by his pharmacist. One smelt like a Hoxsey medicine but the price … $10 a bottle he was being charged. As for the esharotic salve — my word! I would not prescribe it now.’
Offhandedly she cites a recent patient with a cancer of the face to whom she said, ‘Rub some garlic on it…’ It went, apparently.
‘Well,’ she was reminded, ‘before you went to the United States in 1956 you were a regular practitioner within the Medical Establishment, except for the water fluoridation issue on which you quit the BMA. What did you learn there that changed your ideas on therapy?’
‘Observations. What I saw and read. For instance, the diets at the Hoxsey Clinic. Grapes. Raw fruit. Wholemeal bread. Plenty of garlic, especially in cases of leukaemia and melanoma.’

The controversy in Auckland over Dr Milan Brych being drawn to her attention, she said she’d been told of it, hadn’t seen it on TV since she hasn’t got a TV set, but in any case was never satisfied with ‘breakthroughs’ of any sort.
‘There isn’t any “cure” for cancer as Dr Brych was at great pains to emphasise. Laymen are always hailing “breakthroughs”; there’ll be another any time. But what you’ve got to do is to cure the body; then the cancer goes. Don’t keep on harping on cancer, please…’
‘It’s a layman’s nightmare,’ seemed a reasonable retort in the light of scare TV advertisements and documentaries, and the advice by the Medical Establishment to have a periodic check.
This got her back to her own experience, and her manual of health. First published as a pamphlet in 1972, it is a handsome booklet printed by Charles Davy, her Auckland stationer. Entitled ‘A Simple Guide to Better Health’ and addressed to those who accept her discipline of moderation, its introduction asks in its third line: ‘What are these “modern dreaded diseases” (which was the title of a talk she gave in Sydney a few years ago)? Their name is legion. The Killers -particularly heart and vascular disorders and cancer. The Cripplers -arthritis, rheumatism in various forms, muscular and nervous degenerative troubles, and the general recurring incapacitating diseases, asthma, migraine, stomach, bowel and kidney disorders, skin diseases, diabetes, and many others that cause so many lost working hours.
‘My message is as up-to-date as tomorrow and as old as the hills. Over 2000 years ago Hippocrates said: ‘It appears to me necessary to every physician to be skilled in nature and to strive to know, if he would wish to perform his duties, what man is in relation to the articles of food and drink and to his other occupations and what are the effects of each of them on everyone. Whoever does not know what effect these things produce upon a man cannot know the consequences which result from them. Whoever pays not attention to these things or, paying attention, does not comprehend them, how can he understand the diseases which befall a man? For by every one of these things a man is affected and changed this way and that, and the whole of his life is subjected to them – whether in health, convalescence, or disease. Nothing else, then (concluded Hippocrates at this point) can be more important and necessary to know than these things.’
‘It is strange (continues Dr Hill in her introduction to her manual of health) that though these words were written so long ago, it is only comparatively recently that we have begun to pay (scientific) attention to man’s relation to his food and drink, and to learn the effect of these
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things and understand the diseases that befall a man in consequence of them.
‘Indeed, to many medical men this subject is still a closed book and many tend to regard patients who ask for advice about diet as cranks and fanatics.
‘A little over thirty years ago Alexis Carrel, a Nobel Prize winner, author of the world famous classic Man the Unknown and one of the leading brains of the medical profession of this period, wrote: “Unless the doctors of today become the dieticians of tomorrow the dieticians of today will become the doctors of tomorrow.”
‘His prediction is now being proved correct as more and more people are becoming disillusioned by the failure of our medical profession to halt the steady increase in the degenerative diseases of today. The fear of these things hangs over the community like a dark cloud.’
‘You wrote that some years ago,’ she was told in praise of her perspicacity, ‘and now, in the mid 70s there is a great hoo-ha here in New Zealand about precisely this. TV and the daily press are full of “what ought we to eat and not to eat to avoid heart and other degenerative ills”. The Heart Foundation produces a diet book and is promptly challenged by a visiting American nutritionist. People complain: “One specialist tells us one thing, another tells us another, and a third contradicts them both. What are we supposed to do?” ‘
‘There’s no mystery to disease,’ Dr Hill placidly reiterates, adding wryly, ‘Applied common sense and discipline are all we really need. Rare commodities, I fear.’
Reverting to her six months in the United States in the context of her post-US medical philosophy, she cites Dr Gerson. ‘A German. He impressed me. He said these things. A New York cancer specialist, he said in Los Angeles the year when I was there that he’d observed of all degenerative diseases, among which he merely included cancer, that not just the symptoms but the whole body must be treated. “I am convinced,” he said at a conference in Los Angeles, “that cancer does not need specific treatment. It is a degenerative disease and has to be treated so that the whole body is detoxified.” ‘
Dr Gerson achieved that aim, Dr Hill remarked, by dietary means combined with internal medicine in which potassium iodide played an important part. ‘But,’ she scolds, ‘people — apart from those you help – don’t pay the least heed, it seems. That was what struck me most forcibly in the United States,’ she added, ‘the appalling ignorance of nearly everyone.’
And yet she was there at a time of searching self-inquiry among the intellectual elite. For example, Rachel Carson’s articles on pesticides

which were to be collated as a best selling book The Silent Spring were being serialised in the New Yorker, dedicated to Dr Albert Schweitzer for his prophecy, ‘Man has lost the capacity to foresee and to forestall. He will end by destroying the world.’
In 1975 that prophecy was coming true, it was gloomily agreed in the light of Blueprint for Survival and other doomful papers on the scientific facts of life with which ecologists now confront mankind. ‘Of course,’ she exclaimed at once, harking to her Bible, ‘and no one heeds these voices crying in the wilderness.’
Recalling that in 1956 much research in the United States was being done on dietary matters and reverting to her views on degeneration as a modern ill, she said: ‘Only when scientists realise that cancer is not a question of some unknown virus infection and not purely a local cell problem but an accumulation of many factors that have been damaging the body and its metabolism (working) over a long period; only then will it be admitted that its cure is a basic process, embracing all these factors and many more. Our physicians and scientists must learn that as we depend on our internal metabolism, enteral and parenteral digestion, therefore our well-being is also intimately bound up in what might be called our “external metabolism”. That is the soil, the producer of our food. The basis of all sound treatment goes back to that. We are, physically, what we breathe and eat and drink.
‘Yet we are finding it increasingly difficult to obtain fresh air in towns or abundant normal living foods from urban shops. What we eat nowadays is largely poisoned, forced by unnatural methods to grow on depleted soils and further poisoned by insect sprays the traces of which can never be completely removed from the fruit and vegetables we buy, either so-called fresh or prepared or canned, which in most cases means further vitiation of their goodness by devitalising processes.
‘We cannot cure sick people with poison; we cannot detoxify the body while filling it with “modern” foods.’ 23 The Hoxsey trial
The day came, in late September, when Dr Hill felt she should go home, not to overstay her welcome at the clinic. However, just as she was about to tell Harry Hoxsey of her intention he himself approached her to urge her to stay a few weeks more. Haluska, his Pennsylvanian associate, was to be prosecuted by the US Government, he said and he’d be much obliged if she would testify in his defence. The case, being brought by the Federal Food and Drug Administration, charged that circulars published by the clinic were untrue or misleading. If the case were lost he’d have to close the Dallas clinic too, and go out of business throughout the United States.
‘I can buck the American Medical Association,’ he told her wryly. ‘Uncle Sam is something else again.’
She stayed; she really had no option. She went to Pittsburgh and she testified, but she remembers little of the experience.
‘I remember the AMA people huddling in a corner – sidebar they call it – I suppose with the judge, but I don’t recall him either. All I know is that the AMA did their level best to have my testimony stricken from the record.’
They failed; it’s all there in a book published as The Pittsburgh Trial: How the Hoxsey Forces Lost, by Defender Publishers, Wichita, Kansas. Priced at one dollar (12 copies for $10) it is a partisan summation of what transpired, but, fairly, prints the testimony of witnesses verbatim.
The trial began on October 8 1956 in the United States District Court for the Western District of Pennsylvania. Judge John L. Miller presided. It was a jury trial.
It ended on November 15 with a jury verdict for the plaintiff, the Federal Food and Drug Administration, in other words, the US Government.
The claimant (so-called) was the Hoxsey Clinic of Portage Pennsylvania, an offshoot of the home clinic in Dallas, where Dr Hill had observed the treatment and the undoubted cures.
The trial focused on certain pieces of literature dealing with the ‘Hoxsey treatment for cancer’ and, as the court was told, ‘ten cartons more or less, each containing 26,332 black tablets of an article of drug, etcetera.’
During the trial, according to the book, even the US Government thought Hoxsey would prevail. To prevent this, it is alleged, propaganda to persuade the judge, the jury, and the public that Hoxsey was a quack, was concentrated in Pittsburgh during the proceedings by all means open to the AMA. These included newspaper articles and even a television play starring George Sanders called ‘The Charlatan’ about a quack who claimed he cured cancers medicinally but, contracting it himself, submitted to surgery.
The transcript of the trial is worth reading, but since this is about Dr Hill, not US justice in Pittsburgh in 1956, it must be sufficient to affirm that copies of the book exist. Dr Hill, of course, was only one of dozens of witnesses, including American physicians, who testified unarguably (to a layman) for Hoxsey and the efficacy of his treatment.
Here is the transcript (somewhat condensed) of Dr Hill’s evidence, since it can be said she spoke as a New Zealand investigating team.
Dr Eva Esther Hill, called as a witness on behalf of the claimants, having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
Direct evidence
By Mr Casey (for Hoxsey)
Question What is your name, please?
Answer Eva Esther Hill.
Q Where do you live?
(There follows a dialogue spelling our her career and qualifications as they are known to us, to the point where he confirms that she has had 35 years experience.)
Q During that time, have you seen the various and many types of disease?
A Yes, many types. All types of disease and accidents.
Q Have you come in contact with various types of cancers?
A Many different types.
Q And malignant growths? During that time and in your practice, have you become familiar with those various, especially malignant tumours?
A I have attended malignant (malignancies in) patients at all stages of the disease, frequently diagnosing them, sending them to the
94
surgeon, giving the anaesthetic, and seeing them at the operating theatre, and carried on their after care, until death.
Q Do you know of the drug potassium iodide?
A It has been my favourite drug throughout all my years of practice … in many cases.
Q Evidently, then, you have prescribed it many times?
A Many times.
Q With good results?
A With splendid results in many cases.
Q When did you come to this country, Dr Hill?
A Six months ago. The 15th of April, I think, I landed in this country. (It was 1956 as he then made sure.)
Q Why did you come?
A The second day I registered as a patient and went through the usual diagnostic procedures and investigation.
Q And were you given any medication of any kind?
A Yes. It took me two days to complete my investigation and then I was given a supply of various tablets.
Q And did you follow the directions and take those tablets?
A I followed the directions … well I’m still taking them.
Q And what occurred to the cancer on your right cheekbone?
A There was no obvious change. It didn’t advance any more. It remained stationary, as far as I could see.
Q For what period of time?
A Until the date of that photograph. I started the local treatment, which combines with the internal treatment. And from that time my growth was steadily removed.
Q Are you still taking the …
A I am still taking the internal medicine.
Q And do you do that regularly?
A I do that regularly except when I am on a trip.
The Court What was the other treatment the doctor testified she was taking, or following, Mr Casey?
A An external treatment that combines with the internal treatment for skin cases.
Q What kind of a treatment was that?
A That is a local application of different kinds.
Q Is that placed on the affected part?
A Placed right on the growth itself.
Q Evidently the place on your face disappeared?
A Yes. It is better than it has been for many many years.
Q And when did this occur? That it left?
A It took about two months, I think, before it finally healed, after the treatment.
Q For what length of time had you had that condition, Doctor?
A Well, I had had a small growth for a long time. But in 1954 I had a very strenuous period. I neglected my food and became very overtired, and the growth … you could almost see it grow, so that in a matter of six weeks it became as large as a walnut, a large walnut. That is when it became so unsightly that I had to have it removed.
Q That is when you had the operation?
A That is when I had the surgery.
Q Then it came back?
A Yes.
Q Now you say that about … after about two months it
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disappeared. That would be May or June. That would be around in July?
A In July, yes, it was beginning to heal.
Q Then there was no further use for you to take the treatment after that disappeared?
A Well, I intend to continue it just for a little while, to be on the safe side. It is my face.
Q Is there any reason why you remained in Dallas or this country?
A Yes. I was anxious to have my face well dealt with and also I was particularly interested in studying the treatment.
Q And have you made a study of the treatment?
A I have studied the treatment while I was undergoing my own. I had studied it from within and from without, so to speak, and I have learned many valuable things which I…
Q Have you studied it toward the end, as far as treatment and alleviation of cancer, internal cancer in man?
A Yes, I have been particularly interested in that, because I have over 35 years – over 35 years I have seen too many cancer patients die when it seemed to me that something more satisfactory could have been done for them. And particularly in the latter part of my practice, I had, at the time I heard about this treatment, several tragic cases on my hands. And I was determined to find anything I could do to help any such patients in the future.
Q And have you about completed your investigation at Dallas?
A I have been at Dallas now six months and I am returning to New Zealand very shortly.
Q And what do you propose to do?
A When I return to New Zealand, I have learned so much of tremendous value at the Hoxsey Clinic that I propose to set up a clinic for similar treatment in New Zealand.
Q For cancer?
A For cancer.
Q And the related diseases?
A And the related diseases.
(Dr Hill then identified the biopsy report of her tumour made by Dr Fowler in Auckland on February 15 1955.)
Q When you came to America, had there been any involvement as far as your right eye was concerned, as a result of this growth?
A Yes, I had severe pain behind my right eye. That has all disappeared.
Q In the course of your investigation, Dr Hill, you have seen many patients come into the clinic at Dallas and you have had a chance to observe the examination and the treatment there?
A I came primarily to have my face treated.
Q What was wrong with your face?
A It had an extensive basal cell carcinoma on my right cheek.
Q Was that a malignant carcinoma?
A A malignant condition.
Q That was, you say, on your right cheek?
A Yes.
Q Indicating to the right side of your nose. Is that right?
A Yes, sir.
Q Had you had that treated before?
A I had. I had it removed surgically in Auckland, one year and two months previously. It was removed surgically, and biopsy done at that time.
Q The biopsy was positive?
A Basal cell carcinoma.
Q After its removal, what occurred?
A Well, it began almost immediately to grow again, and it recurred to a considerable size and was becoming quite unsightly.
Q You had a surgical application to it on one occasion?
A Yes.
Q And then did you come … you came to Dallas. Where did you go and for what reason?
A I went to the Hoxsey Cancer Clinic to have it removed.
Q I show you what has been marked as Claimant’s Exhibit JJ and ask you what that is?
A That is a photograph of my face, taken the day I started my treatment.
Q When you went to the clinic at Dallas … were you treated there
more space is the laboratory
A I have. I have seen and examined many patients and talked to hundreds of others.
Q Would you say that the facilities and the treatment were adequate?
A The facilities are far from adequate. Much required. But the facility, X Ray apparatus and apparatus is all of good quality and very efficient.
Q How about the staff there?
A The staff are most courteous and painstaking, and I have never seen such gentle-handed nurses in my life.
Q How about the competence of the staff generally?
A Well, I have no fault to find with that.
(Dr Hill then confirmed that no payment from her had been requested; that ‘no charge’ was written on her sheet.)
Cross-examination by the PDA attorney was formal and did not vitiate her testimony.
The case was lost on a technical and legal point. In a pamphlet extolling the Hoxsey treatment an assertion made to a US Congressional inquiry belittling the value of ‘orthodox’ treatment had been printed. This quoted a certain doctor who, called to testify, denied that he had ever said what had been attributed to him. The Hoxsey Clinic had reproduced this in good faith, but it was misleading. The case was lost on that point alone.
‘A gross miscarriage of justice,’ declares Dr Hill.

Home to controversy
Dr Hill flew home as soon as the trial had been concluded, its verdict ringing in her ears. She knew that she was flying to a new controversy, for she had every intention of introducing the therapies she’d learnt, and which had cured herself, to New Zealanders. There would be opposition from the Medical Establishment, no doubt.
She may have flinched, but when she stepped on to the tarmac at Whenuapai all this was put from mind. The family was there to greet her, herded at the compound wire, and waving heartily: Boy, Ruth and Rosemary, turned three, clinging to her mother’s skirt. In Ruth’s arms was her first grandson, Allan Justly. And there was West, of course.
But Boy was pale and wan. ‘No one seems to know what’s wrong,’ Ruth said.
Dr Hill, a quick but thoughtful diagnostician (‘Faces tell,’ she says), soon enough by questioning found what was wrong with Boy. He’d been managing a farm block at Waipu. The owners had ordered spraying with pesticides, new in New Zealand but not new to her after seven months of Rachel Carson and the pesticide controversy in the United States.
‘Those “funny symptoms” the doctors couldn’t recognise are spray poisoning,’ she said. And she was right. It took a long time to get it out of his system.
Cancer and fluoridation vied for her immediate attention. Her backers for the trip had patients waiting for advice and they invited her to Christchurch in the New Year (once again) to speak on her experience and cure.
Meantime the Fluoridation Commission was to hold its Auckland hearings between December 5th and 12th. She attended these and put her documented case, her voice ringing, as it still does, with certainty.
It was at these that they joined in laughing at the slanderous remark

@ Garry ..

Was The ‘Spanish Flu’
Epidemic Man-Made?
Sixty Million Dead In 1918-19
By Henry Makow PhD
12-2-6

In 1948 Heinrich Mueller, the former head of the Gestapo, told his CIA interrogator that the most devastating plague in human history was man-made.

He was referring to the influenza pandemic of 1918-1919 that infected 20% of the world’s population and killed between 60 and 100 million people. This is roughly 3 times as many as were killed and wounded in World War One, and is comparable to WWII losses, yet this modern plague has disappeared down the memory hole.
http://www.whale.to/b/makow54.html

Mueller said the flu started as a US army bacteriological warfare weapon that somehow infected US army ranks at Camp Riley KS in March 1918, and spread around the world. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/influenza/peopleevents/pandeAMEX86.html

He says that it “got out of control” but we cannot discount the horrible possibility that the “Spanish Flu” was a deliberate elite depopulation measure, and that it could be used again. Researchers have found connections between it and the current “Bird Flu.” http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4308872.stm%20

There was nothing “Spanish” about this flu. According to Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu%20

“In the U.S., about 28% of the population suffered, and 500,000 to 675,000 died. In Britain 200,000 died; in France more than 400,000. Entire villages perished in Alaska and southern Africa. In Australia an estimated 10,000 people died and in the Fiji Islands, 14% of the population died during only two weeks, and in Western Samoa 22%. An estimated 17 million died in India, about 5% of India’s population at the time. In the Indian Army, almost 22% of troops who caught the disease died of it.”

The 1918–1919 pandemic of H1N1 virus influenza was the greatest acute plague of the 20th century. Incurring over 20 million human fatalities, however, was not a good strategy for sustaining the evolutionary fitness of the virus, because it is no longer extant; whereas, say, measles and chickenpox remain with us with no evidence of remarkable genetic change, although this may become more evident if they were to face total or near eradication through vaccination programs. The folly of flu virulence remains our chagrin, because the threat always looms over us that this family of viruses, endemic in birds, again may generate human-lethal gene reassortments.

http://www.pnas.org/content/98/5/2115.short?rss=1&ssource=mfc

Both contemporary epidemiological studies and lay histories of the pandemic have identified the first known outbreak of epidemic influenza as occurring at Camp Funston, now Ft. Riley, in Kansas. But there was one place where a previously unknown – and remarkable – epidemic of influenza occurred.

http://www.translational-medicine.com/content/2/1/3#B6

Australian Nobel laureate MacFarlane Burnet spent most of his scientific career working on influenza and studied the pandemic closely. He too concluded that the evidence was “strongly suggestive” that the disease started in the United States and spread with “the arrival of American troops in France [6].”

Burnet FM, Clark E:

Influenza: a survey of the last fifty years Melbourne.: Macmillan Co 1942.

http://www.translational-medicine.com/content/2/1/3#B6

John Oxford, Professor of virology at St Bartholomew’s and the Royal London School of Medicine, and his colleagues believe the Etaples camp became the birthplace of an influenza strain two years before it spread across the world with devastating effects.

The researchers found a censored scientific paper published in The Lancet in 1917, which described a large number of soldiers in a camp somewhere in France in 1916 suffering from, among other symptoms, an acute respiratory infection, high temperature and cough.

One of the co-authors of the report was a military doctor called Shore who was seconded to Etaples and was almost certainly describing the huge camp that became the focal point for troops moving in and out of France on their journey to and from the Western Front.

Professor Oxford said: “At any one time there was 100,000 men minimum there and well over a million troops went through the camp. It turns out to be one of the biggest military bases ever built. It had 22 hospitals of every nationality.”

The descriptions of the patients’ symptoms given in The Lancet paper closely match the classic signs of the 1918 influenza outbreak, Professor Oxford said. “Having focused on Etaples, it does look like the perfect breeding-ground for influenza viruses, because so many young men of different nationalities were mixing under fairly strenuous circumstances.”

The study, published in Nature Medicine , revealed that another outbreak of respiratory disease with similar symptoms occurred at Aldershot barracks, Hampshire, in March 1917. Professor Oxford believes this was due to troops returning home with the virus via the Etaples camp.

With the end of the war a year later, the mass movement of people – soldiers and refugees – caused the virus to spread well beyond Europe and to burst out as a global pandemic. “It looks as if it appeared a couple of years beforehand and smouldered for a while. Then suddenly something in 1918 turned the smouldering into a huge bonfire,” Professor Oxford said.

“It could have been everyone going home after the war. It would tell us that it is not just the genetic structure of the virus, but the genetic structure plus something else and that could give us useful information for the epidemic to come.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/flu-epidemic-traced-to-great-war-transit-camp-728112.html

The Man-Made Origin of AIDS:
Are Human and Viral Experiments Responsible
For Unleashing The HIV Holocaust??
By Alan Cantwell, Jr, MD
c. 2003 All Rights Reserved
11-21-3

AIDS in America rarely makes headlines anymore. In the mind of the public the disease is still believed to be a sexually-transmitted disease mostly affecting male homosexuals, drug addicts, prostitutes and promiscuous people. Starting officially in June 1981 as a “gay disease” affecting only a few dozen men, there are now 800,000 reported U.S. AIDS cases and 460,000 deaths, mostly young men. The prediction of a “major threat” to the “general” heterosexual population never happened.

Every December 1, we commemorate World AIDS Day. This year (2003) there are 36 million people worldwide estimated to be living with AIDS/HIV. Twenty-two million people have died of the disease.

This year, AIDS will get more attention than usual. On November 16, 2003, CBS was supposed to have to aired “The Reagans” – an unflattering portrait of President Ronald Reagan who presided over the first years of the AIDS epidemic. The miniseries was cancelled due to a flood of protests, particularly over a line in the script where Reagan says, “They that live in sin shall die in sin.” There is no historical evidence that the president ever uttered such a line; and Reagan admirers fumed over the attempt by CBS to “rewrite history.” However, it is a fact that the political infighting between the various federal health agencies, and the shameful refusal of the Reagan administration to fund AIDS research and education, all combined to provide a serious indictment against the government’s handling of AIDS in the early years of the American epidemic. Most disconcerting is the fact that Reagan never once uttered the word “AIDS” in public until March 1987, when 16,000 Americans (mostly gay men) had already died of AIDS.

The rest of this article here ..
http://www.rense.com/general45/cant.htm

Garry Warry put down the great Randi Pandy,s G string and try reading what has been posted instead of making a fool of yourself ..

Or perhaps it the monotonous clik clak clik clak that has softened your pons ..

Igor wrote, “……evidence of remarkable genetic change, although this may become more evident if they were to face total or near eradication through vaccination programs. ”

At last! An admission from Igor that vaccination works!

Now perhaps the retired bullshit detector can explain mosquito-borne diseases that are controlled when mosquito populations are controlled, or only extend as far as the range of a particular mosquito species?”

2. Contaminated meds suspected in deaths
By George Miller Comment | Forward | Twitter | Facebook | LinkedIn

Suspected heavy-metal contamination in cardiac drugs thought to have killed dozens of Pakistanis has led officials to seal a Punjab pharma plant. Authorities have arrested the owners of three drug companies named as the “main suppliers” to the Punjab Institute of Cardiology, which administered the drugs, according to the Daily Times.

The government has convened a panel to investigate, RTTNews reported Monday.

Since yesterday, the death toll appears to be rising. The initial figure of 27 has been revised upward to 53 by the Daily Times. NewsPakistan cites 72 deaths, with an additional 2,000 at risk. The drugs include Cardiovestin (simvastatin), Alfagril (clopidogrel), Concort (amlodipine) and Soloprin (aspirin), reports NewsPakistan.

Javed Akram, who heads the government panel, speculated in the RTT report that the heavy metal may penetrate bone marrow, reducing or ending the body’s ability to resist the contaminant. Investigators are checking the white blood cell count and platelets of victims, in addition to bone marrow.

The report said Lahore hospitals have set up wards to treat those affected.

Investigators will also conduct animal trials.

- here’s the Daily Times article
- see the RTTNews story
- here’s more from News Pakistan

Related Articles:
Contamination concern rises about CMOs
UPDATED: FDA visits Indian plant after meningitis outbreak

Hey Clik Clak your pons is dribbling down your receding chin.

Igor wrote, “……evidence of remarkable genetic change, although this may become more evident if they were to face total or near eradication through vaccination programs. ”

At last! An admission from Igor that vaccination works!
About time.

Now perhaps the retired bullshit detector can explain mosquito-borne diseases that are controlled when mosquito populations are controlled, or only extend as far as the range of a particular mosquito species?”

Or are you just sulk behind your conspiracy cut n pastes?

Hope you enjoyed the youtube videos

The pons first evolved as an offshoot of the medullary reticular formation. Since lampreys possess a pons, it has been argued that it must have evolved as a region distinct from the medulla by the time the first agnathans appeared, 505 million years ago.

Just thought you might like to know that.

Another piece of medical blindness .. its built in depression where all the run off from the surrounding farmland accumulates and what a nasty life threatening soup that must be. This is another of the usual all in the head medical diagnosis with a prognosis of kaaching .. kaaching $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ for the authorities again.
============================================
Tics and Toxins: Leroy School Site has History of Health, Water, Building Woes

Sick-building By Dan Olmsted

The school where 12 girls developed tics attributed to “conversion disorder” has a history of water and structural problems, and an outbreak of rashes and sores occurred among students playing sports on land where the school is now sitting, according to a student who went there.

“When we first started we couldn’t go to gym class because the floor kept sinking and cracking,” said the student, who attended the new LeRoy Junior/Senior High School in 2005, its first year of operation. She was one of several people who described the site as a “swamp.”

One year, students had to start a week late because of flooding inside the building, she said.

Before the current school — which goes from eighth to twelfth grades — was built, the site was used for student playing fields; the school itself was at another location. The new building sits directly atop those playing fields.

In the 1970s, students using those fields suffered from open sores that would not heal and rashes, said the former student, whose mother also went there and recalled the incident. The soil was tested, the cause was found, the students were treated and recovered. She did not know what the tests had shown.

This student expressed surprise that two consultant reports commissioned by the district, which found no problems with indoor air quality or toxins in the school building, stated: “No history of building water damage or site contamination was found.”

She is not alone. On a Facebook site set up to support the students, one commenter wrote: “I read the environmental report and it seems like the testing wasn’t very thorough. … Correct me if I am wrong but wasn’t the school partially underwater when it was first built? And how about soil testing. It seems like that would be included in thorough environmental testing? These girls deserve some answers. Praying for all of them and hoping we all get some answers soon.”

Last week, I reported that except for checking a log of pesticide spraying, there is no evidence the consultants considered toxins in the schoolyard or on playing fields. Yet the symptoms occurred during mild weather when students would have been outside, and the school grounds are surrounded by intensively farmed land from which chemicals could conceivably have seeped or drifted.

The school is required to keep annual pesticide logs that were reviewed by the consulting firm, and therefore pesticides were ruled out. As best I could determine, that’s as far as it went.

The former student told me that some outside areas are used exclusively by girls, including a softball diamond. .. Article continues here ..

http://www.ageofautism.com/2012/01/tics-and-toxins-leroy-school-site-has-history-of-health-water-building-woes.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ageofautism+%28AGE+OF+AUTISM%29

““If it’s on youtube, it MUST be true…”

If it’s on youtube, it doesn’t mean it’s FALSE.”

Agreed.

Ivor,

Thanks for the links – interesting reading, especially about Eva Hill.

“Curing” a basal cell carinoma is not a major achievement however – it is an extremely common and slow growing skin cancer that rarely spreads or kills. Local excision and topical treatments are currently the mainstay of therapy for BCCs, and it looks like this is what Eva Hill had.

“wait till there whacking on your door TROLL neo,gary,blue ring thinking
you have lost the info war,soon payday”

Jas, who exactly is “they”?

The Mossad?
The NWO?
The anti-vaxxers?
The evil warlord Xenu and his band of Scientologists?

Who?

Yeah come on jas, names and addresses please.

Ivor, are you still sulking cause I caught you out?

Neo .. who is it ? well it starts with people like you and clik clak pons ..the unwitting dupes.

If you started to look into the rabbit hole I bet you both would shit your nappies. And promptly go back to sleep.

The corruption is everywhere and certainly in politics the police and the military. I will deal with some corruption personally witnessed not to mention the drug dealing out of a hospital by staff and of course the police know because they take a cut.

Re Dr Eva Hill .. I do like your instant assessment .. so that is what Consultant ER,s do ..

Dr Hill also reported a pain behind her right eye and of course that type of cancer is malignant and of course cancers have roots.

The good doctor had 35 years experience at the time of her attendance at the American clinic

The time period that we are speaking of was 1954 when the tumour was operated on and removed but it appears that roots were left there because it started to grow again .. at that point she decided to go elsewhere for treatment. As a back blocks GP I would feel that her 35 years experience far outstrips yours.

Orthodxy does not cure anything, it just sets the clock for further problems down the track.

All cancers have a average 5 year survival rate after treatment by the oncologists .. the % figures shown in the following relate to the 5 year survival rate.

For women, the highest five-year survival rate, at 90%, was for malignant melanoma. Around 4,800 men and more than 5,600 women were diagnosed with malignant melanoma in 2006. Melanoma has the largest survival difference between men and women, at more than 10%.

In the mid 1950,s orthodoxy was relatively crude and the antibiotics were relatively new, however we may see how they have come back to bite us very severely.

After her Herbal Treatment the cancer disappeared and never came back .. so much for orthodoxy’s 5 year survival rate.

Have a peer into this rabbit hole ..

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/

Yeah, yeah, Ivor, more scare stories. Will you never learn that stories (anecdotal evidence) is the same as no evidence at all. By repeating these stories as if they prove something you are merely demonstrating your complete lack of understanding of how rational people learn how the world actually works.

I support fracking in the context of your fracking off back to that messed up little island you came from.

BTW, still waiting for your feeble attempt to explain why you have changed your stance on the efficacy of vaccination – you now say that it can lead to the eradication of disease when before you were saying it doesn’t work. Have you read some of my links and finally seen the light? If so, congratulations. Now we must try and work on your conspiracy delusions….

In the 1950,s I was assigned as a signaler to a company in Aden. At the time those damned a-rabs were agitating for their independence from the occupiers.

We all embarked on 3 ton vehicles circa 4am and arrived at the ambush site in Aden City before dawn and set up the barbed wire across a main thoroughfare and ubfurled our riot banners in English and Arabic ,, Disperse or we fire.

A platoon was detached behind the wire .. the forward section kneeling and a further section standing behind them and the other section were to act as a snatch squad .. the order was given to load rifles with safety catches on,

Behind them stood the Company Commander with me next to him to verbally relay instructions from Battalion HQ and Brigade HQ. At about 5.30am the police chief with a magistrate in tow joined us ..and so we waited.

Circa 8am we were alerted by radio that the locals had started to march to the Civic Centre ..

Much to my utter amazement the police chief said to the company commander .. “The Police have lost control of the streets and there is a rioting mob on the rampage.

The magistrate then stepped forward with a document which the Company Commander signed and it was counter signed by the Police Chief and witnessed by the magistrate .. that was the order that killing may be done legally.

Of course they killed and made a right mess of a peaceful march .. I have seen more disorder on Queen Street marches.

I was at the hub of the action .. both the Cop and the beak lied to a prearranged plan and people died for peacefully trying to assert their rights.

That made all of the troops including me .. complicit in an illegal murder .. but all of us, including the cop and the beak .. were just following orders.

That order came as a matter of policy from some faceless bastard in Whitehall .. start of the rabbit hole and the filth and the slime that makes a sewer in an epidemic look wholesome ..

==================================

“Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience. Our problem is that numbers of people all over the world have obeyed the dictates of the leaders of their government and have gone to war, and millions have been killed because of this obedience. Our problem is that people are obedient all over the world in the face of poverty and starvation and stupidity, and war, and cruelty. Our problem is that people are obedient while the jails are full of petty thieves, and all the while the grand thieves are running and robbing the country. That’s our problem.”:

Howard Zinn, from ‘Failure to Quit’

That is what we are all part of, and the lies and the manipulations are brushed off .. the mortgage comes first.

And Neo I do not believe that you are so naive at all .. I just think you turn your head the other way .. I mean just take a look at your running mate clik clak pons he sounds like one of those deranged Israeli,s .. same foul mouth .. piss on your bones etc etc Gee I am thankful I am not an Arab ..

Its all connected Neo .. the surgeons with the stolen body parts and pharmageddon pushing poison pills and toxic needles. just look at your excuse for informed consent .. Bahh!!

What part of my comments about informed consent do you take issue with?

And more importantly, what is your alternative to informed consent?

A video clip for the troll and his consultant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edikv0zbAlU

““Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience. Our problem is that numbers of people all over the world have obeyed the dictates of the leaders of their government and have gone to war, and millions have been killed because of this obedience”

Czechoslovakia
Velvet Revolution
1989

Egypt
2011

…….. etc etc

@Neo ..

wonder if you recall those Kiwi,s in London who turned out like elephant men after trialling experimental drugs .. I am sure they must have got the informed consent treatment.

As one of them said .. my life is finished and I am going to get cancer and if I had realised etc etc .. well that for example does not sound like informed consent.

I have spoken to many Hospital discharge patients where they were most adamant that the hospital had written their own script that had nothing to with what actually went on.

You laid out in this thread the textbook of what should happen, its all part of the bedside manner whether in office or at bedside.

But of course it very rarely if ever happens that way. They are so so busy .. there are waiting lists for nearly every medical procedure, there are waiting lists for prosthetic limbs wheel chairs and sticking plasters .. we all can find out what the rule book says and realise that it just does not happen that way.

What should happen is the type of Doctoring that Eva Hill supplied, however its no time for nothing, and how can a doctor get informed consent when he has no personal experience of the procedures that he is foisting on an equally clueless patient .. how can a doctor be an expert on the wide variety of drugs that he/she pushes everyday .. Gardasil anyone?

There was a time when the Doctor doing his rounds was family friend and knew everyone in the neighborhood .. then of course arrived the antibiotics and the magic bullet for everyone and we may see the nightmare that has evolved from that scenario ..

We have the lot as Harry Benjamin said plus all of the emerging disease and daily new types of conditions are invented .. such as ‘Doesnt believe us syndrome’ or ‘Will not do as he is told syndrome’ .. or even more stupid conversion disorder ..

That conversion disorder has provided a lot of money for consultants .. and degrading insults for the girls ..

It is all a money making game, a great inhuman freezing works complete with killing chain, people are shunted through and out the other end as quick as possible .. next please Kaaching .. next please Kaaching!

It seems to me that medicine now has more clients than it can handle and the kaaching kaaching is reaching deafening levels.

I went to see a young Dutch Author who was in the psychiatric wing of a North Island Hospitals .. he had been diagnosed as Bipolar and on the lithium trip .. one day I went and he was writhing in pain and crying .. they had changed his medication two days before and his spine was cramping badly .. they kept him on that New Medication for a week and then gave him tranquilizers and placed him back on lithium.

On the wall of that chemical prison was some garbage and garbage it was because it was just there for show and the benefit of the visitors ..

You know the medical shit .. you are entitled to respect .. blah blah blah puke. They were taking his blood pressure and temperature every two hours .. he tried to conceal the medication under his tongue and he was told take it or we force you.

The obvious dictum that the Medics should follow is ….

FIRST DO NO HARM

Why is that now obselete?

Gary, go troll another thread website, one where the users don’t have at least two firing neurons.

Nobody here buys the crap you’re pandering.

Posted by Femacamper | April 2009

“Gary, go troll another thread website, one where the users don’t have at least two firing neurones.”

Ah, so now we know the minimum requirement for posting on this blog. Congratulation on your 3 working neurones Femacamper.

Igor, Homeopathy has to be the ultimate money making scheme … the ‘medicine’ is just plain tap water!

AofA Science Summary: Mechanisms of aluminum adjuvant toxicity and autoimmunity in pediatric populations

Science post imageMechanisms of aluminum adjuvant toxicity and autoimmunity in pediatric populations

Mechanisms of aluminum adjuvant toxicity and autoimmunity
in pediatric populations (HERE)

L Tomljenovic1 and CA Shaw2

1Neural Dynamics Research Group, Department of Ophthalmology and Visual Sciences, University of British Columbia, Vancouver, BC,

Canada and 2Departments of Ophthalmology and Visual Sciences and Experimental Medicine and the Graduate Program in Neuroscience,

University of British Columbia, Vancouver, BC, Canada

Immune challenges during early development, including those vaccine-induced, can lead to
permanent detrimental alterations of the brain and immune function. Experimental evidence
also shows that simultaneous administration of as little as two to three immune adjuvants can
overcome genetic resistance to autoimmunity. In some developed countries, by the time children
are 4 to 6 years old, they will have received a total of 126 antigenic compounds along with
high amounts of aluminum (Al) adjuvants through routine vaccinations. According to the US
Food and Drug Administration, safety assessments for vaccines have often not included
appropriate toxicity studies because vaccines have not been viewed as inherently toxic.

Taken together, these observations raise plausible concerns about the overall safety of current
childhood vaccination programs. When assessing adjuvant toxicity in children, several key
points ought to be considered: (i) infants and children should not be viewed as ‘‘small adults’’
with regard to toxicological risk as their unique physiology makes them much more vulnerable
to toxic insults; (ii) in adult humans Al vaccine adjuvants have been linked to a variety of
serious autoimmune and inflammatory conditions (i.e., ‘‘ASIA’’), yet children are regularly
exposed to much higher amounts of Al from vaccines than adults; (iii) it is often assumed that
peripheral immune responses do not affect brain function. However, it is now clearly established
that there is a bidirectional neuro-immune cross-talk that plays crucial roles in immunoregulation
as well as brain function. In turn, perturbations of the neuro-immune axis have
been demonstrated in many autoimmune diseases encompassed in ‘‘ASIA’’ and are thought to
be driven by a hyperactive immune response; and (iv) the same components of the neuroimmune
axis that play key roles in brain development and immune function are heavily targeted
by Al adjuvants.

In summary, research evidence shows that increasing concerns about
current vaccination practices may indeed be warranted. Because children may be most at risk
of vaccine-induced complications, a rigorous evaluation of the vaccine-related adverse health
impacts in the pediatric population is urgently needed. Lupus (2012) 21, 223–230.

Posted by Age of Autism at January 25, 2012 at 5:44 AM in Vaccine Safety |

http://www.ageofautism.com/2012/01/aofa-science-summary-mechanisms-of-aluminum-adjuvant-toxicity-and-autoimmunity-in-pediatric-populati.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ageofautism+%28AGE+OF+AUTISM%29

Ivor, you can safely ignore anything on the AOA site. If it is reliable information you want, rather than stuff to back up your own delusions, try http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/

Here is a sample of the delights awaiting you there….” One of the themes of science-based medicine is to be suspicious of any form of medicine that is not science-based. In other words, beware of dodgy qualifiers placed before “medicine,” such as: “alternative”, “integrative”, or “complementary” – those that imply that something other than science or evidence is being used to determine which treatments are safe and effective. I would also include “traditional Chinese” medicine in the dodgy category.  A recent article defending Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) provides, ironically, an excellent argument for the rejection of TCM as a valid form of medicine. The authors, Jingqing Hua and Baoyan Liub, engage in a number of logical fallacies that are worth exploring.”

Read, learn.

Dear Gary. You really need to get together with neo more often to compare notes.

neo posted and I quote
“Vaccines, which provide artificially acquired immunity, are an easier and less risky way to become immune”

You are the fool Gary.

WTF are you on about Gerard? I agree with the statement
“Vaccines, which provide artificially acquired immunity, are an easier and less risky way to become immune”

Stop wasting bandwidth with your foolishness young man.

And Gerry, it would be difficult getting together with Neo since I don’t know who Neo is. I do know that he or she is in Auckland and as I am in Christchurch … well do you need me to spell it out?
However if Neo was ever to wander into Pomeroy’s on a Sunday afternoon I would be sure to shout him/her a pint.

PLoS Medicine article advocates using legal system to stem ghostwriting
Jan. 25th, 2012 by Pia Christensen
Filed under: Conflicts of interest, Studies

An essay published by PLoS Medicine makes the case that the “guest” authors of ghostwritten articles – typically academic researchers who provide little or no input – in medical journals should be held legally liable for damages or deaths caused by the drug or device that is the subject of articles they sign their names to.

The article points out that ghostwriting “openly infringes academic standards and … contributes to fraud” but that journal editors have been ineffective at putting a stop to it.

We argue that when an injured patient’s physician directly or indirectly relied upon a journal article containing false/manipulated safety and efficacy data, then pursuant to the legal authority outlined above, the authors of that article, including guest authors, are legally liable for patient injuries and could be named as defendants.

Xavier Bosch, Bijan Esfandiari and Leemon McHenry, authors of the PLoS Medicine piece, even endorse the theory that the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO) could be used, something that was mentioned in an article last year. Other recourses the authors recommend include the False Claims Act and the Anti-Kickback Statute.

http://www.healthjournalism.org/blog/2012/01/plos-medicine-article-advocates-using-legal-system-to-stem-ghostwriting/

Igor wrote, “……evidence of remarkable genetic change, although this may become more evident if they were to face total or near eradication through vaccination programs. ”

At last! An admission from Igor that vaccination works!
About time.

Now perhaps the retired bullshit detector can explain mosquito-borne diseases that are controlled when mosquito populations are controlled, or only extend as far as the range of a particular mosquito species?”

You really have no answer do you? You idiot immigrant.

Why would anyone want to have a pint with an arrogant, sneering, know-it-all prick ?

( I know I wouldn’t )

“It is all a money making game, a great inhuman freezing works complete with killing chain, people are shunted through and out the other end as quick as possible .. next please Kaaching .. next please Kaaching!”

Righto.

Let’s hear your solution then.

If you could change the health system, what would you do?

(this is a serious question btw!)

“a great inhuman freezing works complete with killing chain”

Who is being killed?

Explanation and evidence please.

“However if Neo was ever to wander into Pomeroy’s on a Sunday afternoon I would be sure to shout him/her a pint.”

Nah, I’ve gone off the NWO lager they serve in the pubs these days. With all the nanochips it just doesn’t taste the same, and that live strain of GatesBush virus does funny things to my bowels.

I suggest we communicate via our secret NWO neural implants. Contact me on channel 911, encryption key PARANOIA, confirmation phrase ‘Everyone is out to get me, especially the Jews’.

ROFLMAO .. the jews are out to get you? .. Well ya never know eh Neo ? ..

Thank your lucky stars that you are not a Palestinian .. my advice to you is steer clear of Gaza .. they are gonna send in the tanks again and rain DU, White Phosphorous and cluster bombs in the near future.

When they have done that they are gonna send in the fighter bombers to try to kill 2000 civilians this time .. They were a few hundred short last time.

Re your serious question ..

Every Individual in the Nation should be allowed to spend their health dollars as they please and not be subjected to a monopoly .. those that wish to avail themselves of what Allopathy has to offer then best of luck to them.

HEALTH FREEDOM is the name of what we struggle and die for.

Just get used to the idea Neo, and understand that the fat living is coming to an end .. the Govt has to seek cheaper alternatives to what is currently on offer.

Currently it is the patient services get the chop .. patients subjected to waiting lists anywhere from 6 to 12 months but I notice that non of the fat cats take a pay and perks cut to help cut the backlog.

“I suggest we communicate via our secret NWO neural implants. Contact me on channel 911, encryption key PARANOIA, confirmation phrase ‘Everyone is out to get me, especially the Jews’.”

… and speaking of arrogant, sneering, know-it-all pricks …

neo and gary sit at their keyboards snidely deriding any evidence, research, or information

that might deviate from the stories that are told to them in the mainstream commercially focused media.

Prefering instead to just lump anything and everything that doesn’t fit their own personal worldviews

into a big dumb ‘conspiracy theory’ labeled box

while ignoring or deriding any contention that might arise over issues

where there might exist a lack of substantiated evidence one way or the other.

It’s as if they both already know everything there is to know about everything.

What a pompous pair of wankers you both are.

Who is being killed?

Explanation and evidence please.
===============================

The Man-Made Origin of AIDS:
Are Human and Viral Experiments Responsible
For Unleashing The HIV Holocaust??
By Alan Cantwell, Jr, MD
c. 2003 All Rights Reserved

The African Holocaust given to the Africans with dripping needles.

DEATH BY MEDICINE
October 2003
Gary Null PhD, Carolyn Dean MD ND,
Martin Feldman MD, Debora Rasio MD,
Dorothy Smith PhD.

This article more than speaks for itself ..

“…Why would anyone want to have a pint with an arrogant, sneering, know-it-all prick ?

( I know I wouldn’t )

Posted by ewingsc | January 27, 2012, 12:29 am…”

It might just be preferable to having a pint with an arrogant, sneering, know-nothing prick like you Scotty.

Still sulking Ivor?
Still upset about being caught out supporting vaccine efficacy? Still trying to find an explanation for the mosquito – malaria link that doesn’t involve germs?

Looks like your snuggling up to Scott to fill his head with horseshit at Pomeroy’s days are over and the real asshole is in full view.

Scott didn’t take the bait and you revert back to being what you were from the beginning: a smug brainwashed corporate tool.

“What a pompous pair of wankers you both are” says it all.

You and your consultant should take each other on a pharma paid cruise to Aruba and stay awhile.

Jackie Fletcher of UK Vaccine Safety Group JABS Writes to BMJ About Wakefield Libel Suit

Jabs Yesterday BMJ posted some of a letter that Jackie wrote to the journal but we thought AoA readers might like the opportunity to read the whole thing. We mark in bold the passages left out in BMJ on-line

RE: Wakefield sues BMJ over MMR articles

Starting in February there will be an appeal against the GMC ruling by Professor John Walker Smith at the High Court in London and then a US Court appearance for Mr Deer, BMJ Editor Dr Godlee and the BMJ representatives to defend a libel action brought by Dr Wakefield sometime later this year (or maybe next). I trust that all claims/counter claims can be thoroughly tested with all the appropriate evidence being heard and supported by witnesses. I hope that these legal proceedings will help to expose those responsible at the highest level for one of the biggest medical scandals in history and those fighting the rearguard action to defend the MMR vaccine will be found out. The hounding of the co-authors of The Lancet paper has been a very disturbing but clever diversion which, in my opinion, was designed to distract attention from the main issue, the MMR disaster.

I just wish Mr Deer had used his considerable talents to hound the committee responsible for introducing a vaccine, brands of which had already been withdrawn in other countries for causing neurological problems. I wish Mr Deer had used his time and energy to expose the people responsible for allowing the continued use of MMR vaccines when children were reported to have suffered problems in the opening weeks of the MMR campaign back in 1988. I wish he had used his efforts to expose the inadequacies of the Government’s yellow card scheme which has been ineffective since it began. Mr Deer was informed of this and much more but for some reason chose to investigate the one team of doctors who had raised a flag over the MMR and possible side effects.

I would like to remind/inform your readers that the problems with MMR were known about by the UK Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation at least eight months before they sanctioned its use in the UK. (1) This was way back in 1988, ten years before The Lancet case series early report was published.

From the minutes of the JCVI Working Party On The Introduction of Measles, Mumps and Rubella Vaccine (11 February 1988):

‘…5. MMR Vaccination In Canada

Members read a report of cases of mumps encephalitis which had been associated with MMR vaccine containing the URABE strain of the mumps virus. The Canadian authorities has suspended the licences of MMR vaccines containing the URABE strain but Dr Salisbury considered that the data on which the decision had been based was slender. It was agreed that North Hertfordshire would use the Jeryl-Lyn vaccine, if it was available from MSD, to obtain comparative data. A statement would be prepared in anticipation of any adverse publicity which might arise.’

The Government clearly was aware of the risks involved with the URABE containing vaccines (Pluserix and Immravax) before they were introduced and had the audacity to prepare an adverse publicity statement in readiness for what was potentially to come.

Problems with MMR vaccine began in the opening weeks/months of the new campaign starting in October 1988 as subsequently reported in the UK Daily Mail: ‘MMR killed my daughter’ 18th May 2004 (2) and the Sunday Express: ‘Were all of these children killed by the triple MMR jab? by Lucy Johnston 13/1/02 (3)

In October 1997, four months before The Lancet publication, a meeting was held with the Health Minister and the Chief Medical Officer, Principal Medical Officer and other senior officers. The Health Minister was presented with details of some 1200 children and asked to instigate a clinical investigation into their ill health or death following MMR or MR vaccinations. This was never done. Most of the children had started with symptoms within the incubation period of the vaccines; symptoms that were recognised by the vaccine manufacturers and then they developed long term problems also recognised by the vaccine manufacturers within their product information sheets. The parents had reported to JABS that no treating physician had been able to determine any alternative medical explanation for the child’s decline. Much money, time and effort has been spent on not studying these children. I think that those accusing Dr Wakefield should look long and hard at their own role in protecting government officials who indemnified vaccine manufacturers against any action for serious damage and deaths of children. That is the fraud.

This is not an MMR scare as has been widely claimed, this is, I repeat, an MMR disaster and there should be nowhere to hide for those responsible.

(1) JCVI minutes of meeting February 1988 http://www.dh.gov.uk/prod_consum_dh/groups/dh_digitalassets/@dh/@ab/documents/digitalasset/dh_095328.pdf

(2) http://www.jabs.org.uk/pages/home/home.html

(3) http://www.jabs.org.uk/pages/johnston-mmr.asp

JABS is a UK support group for parents of vaccine damaged children.

Posted by Age of Autism at January 26, 2012 at 12:01 AM in Current Affairs, Dr. Andrew Wakefield | Permalink | Comments (34)

What does this have to do with big pharma and the APA?
Everything. These organizations have fabricated a version of reality that mental health patients and helping professionals alike are required to accept. That reality has less to do what patients actually need or what is really going on in their lives and more to do with how to efficiently get their money while minimizing liability.
===============================

How I got away with stolen cookies and created an alternate reality: a clue to the strategy used by big pharma and the APA

Saturday, January 14, 2012 by: Mike Bundrant

(NaturalNews) In the early days of my training as a psychotherapist, I chose an odd mentor, an old man with white hair and steely blue eyes who fit the classic description of a sage. Every month a small group of us would venture out to his hide away in some obscure village in northern New Mexico and sit at his feet, reveling in the mysteries of the psychotherapeutic process. His name was Zink, and sometimes he gave us very strange assignments.

Once he said, “I want to you steal some cookies from the grocery store. But don’t just sneak in there and put a box under your coat. Do it in a way in which you create a distorted reality and walk out of that store with the manager’s permission to take the cookies.”

“Um. What is this, a school for small-time shoplifters?” I protested. “I am in training to become a counselor, not a thief. Besides, I don’t steal. It’s a little rule of mine.”

“You deal with the moral aspects of the assignment however you want,” said Zink.

“I don’t think the counseling board would approve of this kind of training,” I retorted.

“If you were so concerned about the state’s involvement in your education, you wouldn’t have chosen me as your supervisor,” he replied. With that, Zink dismissed himself with a glimmer is his eye.

Ok, how to create a distorted reality, steal cookies, walk away with the blessing of the store manager and keep my morals intact? It did seem like a challenge. I began to plot.

I took a stroll through the neighborhood market, casing the joint like a cheap crook, waiting for inspiration. Nothing. I left. Forget this! I could see myself trying to explain my way out of a shoplifting charge, embarrassed as can be and now with a criminal record, no longer licensable as a psychotherapist! I left the store empty handed and firm in my resolve to return to Zink and fire him.

Then, it came to me. I knew how to do it! I waltzed into the market during the busiest part of the day and put a few things in my cart, making sure to include some refrigerated items, but no cookies. Then, I proceeded to the register and paid. I accepted my receipt from the cashier and walked off, leaving the bag of groceries at the check out. On the way out, I tossed the receipt into the trash. Several hours later I returned to the store and asked for the manager.

I reasoned with him, saying “I bought a small bag of groceries here a few hours ago and walked off without it. I don’t have the receipt, though. Can you help? It was only $20 or so. I could just buy everything again, but…”

“Oh, no problem, sir. I do remember a bag being left behind, but we already returned the items to the shelves. Why don’t you just go get what you had and then come see me.”

“Wow. Thanks so much!” I was grateful. I dutifully browsed the store, collecting all of my purchased items, plus a small bag of mint cookies. Next, the moment of truth!

“Here you go, and thanks again.” I opened the bag for the manager to inspect. He perused the items and looked me in the eye. I responded with a firm nod. I really appreciate your help sir!

At that, I had secured his blessing and walked out the door, a blatant thief shrouded in an aura of decency. The cookies tasted strangely delicious, I must admit. Not long after, I returned to the market and faced the manager.

“A while ago I stole some cookies from your store and now I would like to make amends,” I offered. At that, I put down $10 on the counter and said, “This should cover it, with interest.”

Distorted realities
Call it youth, or the influence of the culture in Santa Fe, but a small group of us were pushing some limits – without the use of any drugs – trying to discover what constitutes reality and why people do what they do. At one point a colleague of mine and I encouraged an unsuspecting client to drink a bunch of soda and then prevented him from leaving the room when he had to urinate, testing his limits. Would he force his way out of the room or just pee on himself? What lesson would he learn from this regardless of his choice?

We called ourselves the Mental Health Underground, committed to pushing the boundaries of human potential and tolerance, beyond the standard guidelines of conventional mental health education, which we considered nearly worthless. It is one thing, by the way, to think about this stuff and go, “Yeah, I get it.” It’s another thing to experiment in the real world.

Most of what I learned from the Mental Health Underground has come to me slowly but surely over the years as I have matured. The most poignant lesson of all is that reality, and the sanity that comes from knowing it, is a mutually created thing. We create and share it together. If someone doesn’t see reality the way most people do, he is considered crazy, out of touch. Schizophrenics fall into this category. Most people are not hearing voices come out of the walls. When someone does, he gets drugged up until the voices are smothered in a warm, chemical blanket.

Who created the reality you share?
When a person creates a bizarre reality and expects you to share it with them, you may not react well. The contrast between the bizarre reality and the one most people agree upon is too great. What happens, however, when the bizarre reality seems plausible from within the agreed upon one? The bizarre version has great potential to be adopted and shared, especially if the proponent of that reality has power or credibility.

In my case, the store manager accepted the scenario I presented, a bag full of items that I purchased. He had evidence of my credibility, as he knew of the bag I had left behind earlier in the evening. I altered that reality only slightly by including the mint cookies and it still met the manager’s approval. The manager failed to understand the layers of deception, however. He didn’t know that his memory of the forgotten grocery bag was part of my treacherous plot all along. What gave my story credibility was the false scenario that I created from the beginning.

What does this have to do with big pharma and the APA?
Everything. These organizations have fabricated a version of reality that mental health patients and helping professionals alike are required to accept. That reality has less to do what patients actually need or what is really going on in their lives and more to do with how to efficiently get their money while minimizing liability.

The backbone of this distorted reality is the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders
(DSM) – a clinical handbook used to diagnose patients with mental disorders that are codified and numbered, then used for insurance billing purposes. Patients are educated as to which disorder they have, a label they are forced to accept (and carry in their medical records) if they want treatment, which properly consists of a combination of talk therapy and drugs. The drugs are a required recommendation by the way. Counselors can ultimately be sued if they do not recommend them, although patients may refuse.

Counselors, engulfed in this fabricated system, typically and unthinkingly play along. In fact, they usually buy into the system so thoroughly that they consider those of us who don’t diagnose according to the DSM as not credible and unprofessional. There you have it. If you don’t share the reality created by the American Psychiatric Association in cooperation with insurance companies and big pharma, you don’t get treatment as a patient and you don’t practice as a counselor.

And the entire system is made up. They pull it off, year in and year out, because the DSM diagnostic guide seems reasonable, and not far from the reality that many people experience, just like my bag of groceries wasn’t far from the store manager’s perception of reality.

When you drill down just a little, though, the aura of professionalism in the mental health system evaporates. The disorders in the DSM, to any thinking practitioner, are rarely useful in terms of helping people solve real life problems. The therapeutic process, centered around a diagnosis that was intended to codify, not problem solve, usually consists of an evaluation, referral for medication and talk therapy. The talk therapy often focuses on how the patient is managing, given the expected effects and side effects of the medication.

This cycle is nearly useless at best and gravely harmful at worst. In some cases, it robs people of valuable years of their lives. The story of Linda Santini is a perfect example, detailed as the saga of a family in her book The Secrets to Recovery from Mental Illness: A Mother’s Guide. Luckily, Linda found her way out of the system’s distorted reality by way of orthomolecular medicine. Her story is an inspiration to anyone who has been trapped in the vicious cycle of DSM diagnoses that lead to prescription medication and weekly talk therapy. Parents of children diagnosed with ADD or ADHD should definitely read this book.

Share a reality that heals, not one that steals
The hidden blessing of my involvement with the Mental Health Underground is that it gave me a chance to share an incredibly useful experience with a few like-minded people that didn’t buy into the system. Although I admit some of our experiments were foolish, they pale in comparison to the vast experiments being perpetrated on humankind by those in power who will never feel bad enough to make amends for their stolen cookies. They play for keeps and it is your mind at stake.

Rather than buy into the mental health trip laid out in the DSM, opt for learning how your mind and emotions actually function. Learn to master your own state of being. Discover how to communicate well and how to manage conflict. Learn useful tools, not useless diagnoses! This is the path to health and healing.

About the author:
Mike Bundrant is the founder of the iNLP Center, which offers online NLP training to help you multiply your effectiveness in every area of life. To receive a free personal development mini-course, visit iNLP Center.

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/034641_alternate_reality_Big_Pharma_psychiatry.html#ixzz1jWBIfEld

Ivor, you loser,
Still upset about being caught out supporting vaccine efficacy? Still trying to find an explanation for the mosquito – malaria link that doesn’t involve germs?

Ivor,

Thanks for your posts.

I’m keen to explore this comment of yours a bit more:

“Every Individual in the Nation should be allowed to spend their health dollars as they please and not be subjected to a monopoly ”

What exactly do you mean by “their health dollars”?

I assume you mean that you would like to see complementary/alternative medicine funded in the same way that people get treated for free in the public health system?

How exactly do you think this would work financially? The government struggles to pay for the care it provides at the moment, let alone if it introduces complementary/alternative medicine into the mix.

Are you suggesting that conventional medicine be abandoned in favour of CAM? Or if not, how should the decisions be made as to what is funded and what is not?

The Gweat Randi Pandy takes a good hiding from Dr Viera. What is sauce for the gweat handy pandy is sauce for clik clak pons.

http://www.vierascheibner.org/index.php?view=article&catid=43%3Amiscellaneous&id=70%3Asome-notes-on-skepticism&option=com_content&Itemid=59

““I suggest we communicate via our secret NWO neural implants. Contact me on channel 911, encryption key PARANOIA, confirmation phrase ‘Everyone is out to get me, especially the Jews’.”

… and speaking of arrogant, sneering, know-it-all pricks …

neo and gary sit at their keyboards snidely deriding any evidence, research, or information

that might deviate from the stories that are told to them in the mainstream commercially focused media.

Prefering instead to just lump anything and everything that doesn’t fit their own personal worldviews

into a big dumb ‘conspiracy theory’ labeled box

while ignoring or deriding any contention that might arise over issues

where there might exist a lack of substantiated evidence one way or the other.

It’s as if they both already know everything there is to know about everything.

What a pompous pair of wankers you both are.”

____________

@ewingsc –

A lack of substantiated evidence?

in every thread involving vaccines on this forum where I have attempted to argue things based on evidence – the opposition’s comments invariably degrade into nebulous allegations of conspiracies involving ‘them’ being out to get everyone, genocide, global depopulation etc etc…

No-one has been able to produce any evidence that vaccines are as harmful as you guys say they are; all of you dismiss data involving substantiated vaccine benefits as Big Pharma propaganda; everyone conveniently ignores the evidence that has been right in their faces in Auckland recently, namely that unvaccinated kids are the ones getting measles…

…all while uttering the universal cry “troll, troll”..

So forgive me for my satire, I’m simply sick of asking for data to back up ludicrous claims and receiving nothing.

As for ‘ignoring or deriding any contention that might arise over issues where there might exist a lack of substantiated evidence one way or the other’ – even if I am doing that, I suspect it’s preferable to the usual approach of people on this forum which is to blindly believe anything that fits their world view, while failing to see blatant hypocrisy… My favourite example over the last few days has been Ivor dismissing medical data as “numerology” and then posting a paper full of “numerology”…

Neo .. people are not treated for free they are paying through the nose as the top dogs keep getting thousands in cost of living rises. I note that the CHCH CEO turned down $68000 and that is chicken feed compared with what the medical dogs get

When the govt does its sums the pie (Tax Take)is divided up into various slices amongst which is the health sector.

Contrary to your statement about it all being free I hardly think $33 on average for a visit to the Doctors can be considered to be free .. If one is unemployed and not everyone is a bludger as the National party seem to think via their Hatchet Woman. $33 is circa 20% of their income .. if one needs glasses or dentures or hearing aids etc then it quite simply becomes out of reach, or if they get a loan from the SS then it becomes a great burden week by week as the hapless victims stale crust is further docked to pay it back .. we know all about the dole bludgers and living high down the pub spending money on the lotto and on the pokies bull shit.

Then we have the NGO,s with their Govt Grants teaching people how to live. Nothing is free even the dole is taxed at 25%.

What is required is that the current health model be dismantled and most of the fancy specialists that live off the ACC, be fired so that they can leave the country for more profitable climes.

Then the nation could hold a referendum and one where the votes are cast and counted by hand in full public view. Then the results can be looked at for any fraud .. I say that because Pharmageddon would be prowling in force.

The referendum need not be complicated and any modality to be considered needs to provide cures and not just palliative care as it is at present.

There are a lot of cures for cancer out there,plus other cures for vascular disease other than amputation and stenting.

Homeopathy is a good example .. of this as is naturopathy can chiropractic ..

I put that in there for you garry warry it will give you a break from knitting.

I feel quite certain that most people who have contributed to this thread would have a lot of commonsense to add ..

I like to keep an open mind, neo.

I just don’t know why I need to hear from you about it.

Talking of unsubstantiated claims ..

Neo,s claim .. namely that unvaccinated kids are the ones getting measles .. evidence please and if the stats come from that great hall of pharmageddon .. Auckland University .. then pull the other one!

No-one has been able to produce any evidence that vaccines are as harmful as you guys say they are; all of you dismiss data involving substantiated vaccine benefits as Big Pharma propaganda; everyone conveniently ignores the evidence that has been right in their faces in Auckland recently, namely that unvaccinated kids are the ones getting measles… that is complete and utter bullshit the stats have been put up in this thread ..

How quickly you develop amnesia and dont forget the Dr Wakefield and the Autism affair .. if what these criminals have said was correct they would not need to lie and cheat .. Truth stands on its own it is not surrounded by liars and cheats and deluded scientists with a reputation to protect .. read Viera Scheibners article before you reply ..

I had thought that I detected the odd ray of light in your postings but I was obviously mistaken the gweat garry warry must be getting to you.

Bit hard to keep an open mind while at the same time ignoring dissenting opinions though, isn’t it?

So forgive me for my satire, I’m simply sick of asking for data to back up ludicrous claims and receiving nothing .. its all been placed before you and which you duly dismiss with some trite remark .. such as nobody is perfect .. what you need it a cultural revolution to get your privileged ass into the right frame of mind.

I personally am sick and tired of your defense of the indefensible .. roll on a referendum .. as far as I can see, what you represent here has received scant support yet which you dismiss as axes to grind .. has it not occurred to you that people are pissed off with what you lot are delivering???

Righto Ivor

Ask and ye shall recieve..

Origin of the Auckland Measles outbreak:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10733801

http://www.nzdoctor.co.nz/news/2011/august-2011/10/unvaccinated-waikato-teens-hit-by-measles.aspx

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/5338113/Fears-measles-will-spread-during-holidays

This paper is a pearler too:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20308208

[Note: in the USA The Physicians Desk Reference, often found in public libraries, is a good source of information. The vaccines also come with what are called "Package Inserts" which you may ask for from your doctor. Better yet, check our Inserts page for download links to package inserts.]

VACCINE INFORMATION
This information is taken from a book called Everything There is to Know about Vaccination by Joanna Karpasea-Jones (Helios Books, tel. 01892 537254, price £4,50).
[2nd edition published in 2000 - 'Fully revised and updated']
Joanna runs Vaccination Awareness Network UK,
178 Mansfield Road,
Nottingham, NG1 3HW. Tel. 0870 444 0894.
Email: enquiries@van.org.uk — website: http://www.van.org.uk.

This information explains why some children react so badly.

DPT — diptheria bacterium, pertussis organisms, tetanus toxoid, sodium chloride, sodium hydroxide, formaldehyde, hydrochloric acid, aluminium and mercury.

HiB — Hib saccarides cultured on cow’s brains, crm protein, sodium chloride, aluminium hydroxide, mercury.

POLIO — 3 types of live polio virus, magnesium chloride, amino acid, polysorbate 80, purified water, neomycin, sulphate, streptomycin, penicillin and monkey kidney cell cultures.

MENINGITIS C — meningococcal group C oligosaccharide and corynebacterium, diphteriae crm protein (fails to disclose what vaccine is cultured on), aluminium phosphate, sodium chloride and water.

MMR — live measles virus, live mumps virus, live rubella virus, chick embryo, human foetal cells, neomycin, sorbitol, gelatine.

HEPATITIS B — Hepatitis B virus gene, aluminium hydroxide, mercury, formaldehyde. For the genetically engineered vaccine: aluminium hydrochloride, sodium chloride and mercury.

INFLUENZA — Influenza virus, haemaglutinin and neuraminidase antigens A and B strains, gelatine, mercury, formaldehyde, sodium chloride, mashed chick embryos, neomycin.

Vaccine Ingredients and Contact Info
Compiled by Dawn Winkler
Source: 1997 Physicians’ Desk Reference
Toll Free Numbers can be called to obtain product inserts
This is a representative, not a comprehensive, list of the various types of vaccines

Acel-Immune
DTaP
Diphtheria and Tetanus Toxoids and Acellular Pertussis Vaccine Adsorbed
Lederle Laboratories
1-800-934-5556
produced using formaldehyde, thimerosal, aluminum hydroxide, aluminum
phosphate, polysorbate 80, gelatin

Act HIB
Haemophilus Influenzae Type B (Hib) Tetanus Toxoid Conjugate
Connaught Laboratories
1-800-822-2463
produced using ammonium sulfate, formalin, sucrose, thimerosal
medium: semi-synthetic

Attenuvax
Measles Virus Vaccine Live
Merck & Co, Inc.
1-800-672-6372
produced using neomycin, sorbitol, hydrolized gelatin
medium: chick embryo

DPT
Diphtheria and Tetanus Toxoids and Pertussis Vaccine Adsorbed
SmithKline Beecham Pharmaceuticals
1-800-366-8900 ext. 5231
produced using aluminum phosphate, formaldehyde, ammonium sulfate,
washed sheep red blood cells, glycerol, sodium chloride, thimerosal
medium: porcine (pig) pancreatic hydrolysate of casein

Energix-B
Hepatitis B
SmithKline Beecham Pharmaceuticals
1-800-633-8900 ext. 5231
produced using aluminum hydroxide, thimerosal
medium: yeast (possibly 5% residual)

Havrix
Hepatitis A
SmithKline Beecham Pharmaceuticals
1-800-633-8900 ext. 5231
produced using formalin, aluminum hydroxide, phenoxyethanol (antifreeze),

polysorbate 20, residual MRC5 proteins (from medium)
medium: human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal tissue)

Biavax
Rubella and Mumps Virus Vaccine Live
Merck & Co, Inc.
1-800-672-6372
produced using neomycin, sorbitol, hydrolized gelatin
medium: human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal tissue)

HibTiter
Haemophilus Influenzae Type B (Hib)
Lederle Laboratories
1-800-934-5556
produced using polyribosylribitol, ammonium sulfate, thimerosal
medium: chemically defined, yeast based

Fluvirin
Influenza Virus Vaccine
Medeva Pharmaceuticals
1-888-MEDEVA
(716)274-5300
produced using embryonic fluid (chicken egg), neomycin, polymyxin,
thimerosal, betapropiolactone
medium: embryonic fluid (chicken egg)

FluShield
Influenza Virus Vaccine, Trivalent, Types A&B
Wyeth-Ayerst
1-800-934-5556
produced using gentamicin sulfate, formaldehyde, polysorbate 80,
tri(n)butylphosphate, thimerosal
medium: chick embryos

IPOL
Inactivated Polio Vaccine
Connaught Laboratories
1-800-822-2463
produced using 3 types of polio virus, formaldehyde, phenoxyethanol
(antifreeze), neomycin, streptomycin, polymyxin B
medium: VERO cells, a continuous line of monkey kidney cells

MMR
Measles Mumps Rubella Live Virus Vaccine
Merck & Co., Inc.
1-800-672-6372
produced using sorbitol, neomycin, hydrolyzed gelatin
mediums: M&M – chick embryo
Rubella – human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal tissue)

M-R-Vax
Measles and Rubella Virus Vaccine Live
Merck & Co., Inc.
1-800-672-6372
produced using neomycin, sorbitol, hydrolyzed gelatin
mediums: Measles – chick embryo
Rubella – human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal tissue)

Menomune
Meningococcal Polysaccharide Vaccine
Connaught Laboratories
1-800-822-2463
produced using thimerosal, lactose
medium: freeze dried polysaccharride antigens from Neisseria Meningitidis

Meruvax II
Rubella Virus Vaccine Live
Merck & Co., Inc.
1-800-672-6372
produced using neomycin, sorbitol, hydrolyzed gelatin
medium: human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal tissue)

Mumpsvax
Mumps Virus Vaccine Live
Merck & Co., Inc.
1-800-672-6372
produced using neomycin, sorbitol, hydrolyzed gelatin
medium: human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal tissue)

Orimune
Poliovirus Vaccine Live Oral Trivalent
Lederle Laboratories
1-800-934-5556
produced using 3 types of attenuated polioviruses, streptomycin,
neomycin, calf serum, sorbitol
medium: monkey kidney cell culture

Pneumovax
Pneumococcal Vaccine Polyvalent
Merck & Co., Inc.
1-800-672-6372
produced using phenol and capsular polysaccharides from the 23 most prevalent pneumococcal types

Imovax
Rabies Vaccine Adsorbed
Connaught Laboratories
1-800-822-2463
produced using human albumin, neomycin sulfate, phenol red indicator
medium: human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal tissue)

Rabies Vaccine Adsorbed
SmithKline Beecham Pharmaceuticals
1-800-366-8900 ext. 5231
produced using betapropiolactone, aluminum phosphate, sodium
ethylmercurithiosalicylate (thimerosal), phenol red
medium: fetal rhesus monkey lung cells

Recombivax
Hepatitis B Vaccine Recombinant
Merck & Co., Inc.
1-800-672-6372
produced using thimerosal, aluminum hydroxide
medium: yeast (residual < 1% yeast protein)

RotaShield
Rotavirus Vaccine, Live, Oral, Tetravalent
Wyeth-Ayerst Laboratories
1-800-934-5556
produced using 1 rhesus monkey rotavirus, 3 rhesus-human reassortant
viruses, sucrose, monosodium glutamate (MSG), potassium monophosphate,
potassium diphosphate, fetal bovine serum, neomycin sulfate, amphotericin B
medium: fetal rhesus diploid cell line

Varivax
Varicella Virus Vaccine Live
Merck & Co., Inc.
1-800-672-6372
produced using sucrose, phosphate, glutamate, processed gelatin
medium: human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal tissue)

Chemical Profiles and Definitions, visit http://www.scorecard.org to investigate chemical profiles
Sources: EDF (Environmental Defense Fund) & MME (Mosby's Medical Encyclopdia)

Ammonium Sulfate: EDF Suspected – gastrointestinal or liver toxicant
neurotoxicant
respiratory toxicant

Amphotericin B: MME definintion – "a drug used to treat fungus
infections. Known allergy to this drug prohibits use. Side effects
include blood clots, blood defects, kidney problems, nausea and
fever. When used on the skin, allergic reactions can occur."

Aluminum: EDF Suspected – cardiovascular or blood toxicant
neurotoxicant
respiratory toxicant
More hazardous than most chemicals in 2 out of 6 ranking systems
On at least 2 federal regulatory lists

Beta-Propiolactone: EDF Recognized – carcinogen
EDF Suspected – gastrointestinal or liver toxicant
respiratory toxicant
skin or sense organ toxicant
More hazardous than most chemicals in 3 out of 3 ranking systems
On at least 5 federal regulatory lists

Ranked as one of the most hazardous compounds (worst 10%) to humans

Formaldehyde: EDF Recognized – carcinogen
Suspected – gastrointestinal or liver toxicant
immunotoxicant
neurotoxicant
reproductive toxicant
respiratory toxicant
skin or sense organ toxicant
More hazardous than most chemicals in 5 out of 12 ranking systems
On at least 8 federal regulatory lists
Ranked as one of the most hazardous compounds (worst 10%) to ecosystems and human health

Gentamicin Sulfate: an antibiotic

Hydrolyzed Gelatin: obtained from selected pieces of calf and cattle
skins, de-mineralized cattle bones (ossein) and porkskin

Neomycin: an antibiotic

Phenol: aka Carbolic Acid
EDF Suspected – cardiovascular or blood toxicant
developmental toxicant
gastrointestinal or liver toxicant
kidney toxicant
neurotoxicant
respiratory toxicant
skin or sense organ toxicant
More hazardous than most chemicals in 3 out of 10 ranking systems
On at least 8 federal regulatory lists

Phenoxyethanol: aka Antifreeze
EDF Suspected – developmental toxicant
reproductive toxicant
Less hazardous than most chemicals in 3 ranking systems

Polyribosylribitol: a component of the Hib bacterium

Polymyxin: an antibiotic

Polysorbate: EDF Suspected – skin or sense organ toxicant

Sorbitol: EDF Suspected – gastrointestinal or liver toxicant
Less hazardous than most chemicals in 1 ranking system

Streptomycin: an antibiotic

Sucrose: refined sugar

Thimerosal: ethyl mercury
EDF Recognized – development toxicant
Suspected – skin or sense organ toxicant

Tri(n)butylphosphate: EDF Suspected – kidney toxicant

neurotoxicant
More hazardous than most chemicals in 2 out of 3 ranking systems
On at least 1 federal regulatory list

Ivor… lets dissect your comments above a bit more:

“I hardly think $33 on average for a visit to the Doctors can be considered to be free”

I agree. You have to pay to see your GP – with the exceptions of certain subsidies you generally have to pay something for primary care. Fortunately no-one forces you to see your GP, you could just as easily take your cash to an iridologist or colour therapist… so the “monopoly” you have alleged does not exist in this example you have provided.

“The referendum need not be complicated and any modality to be considered needs to provide cures and not just palliative care as it is at present”

So what did your FREE visit to the emergency department after your accident consist of? Palliative care? I think not.

“What is required is that the current health model be dismantled and most of the fancy specialists that live off the ACC, be fired so that they can leave the country for more profitable climes.”

This simply shows your lack of understanding of the health system as it stands. Most NZ specialists do NOT do ACC work, and the majority of those that do provide care/surgery after accidents provide that care in the public system.

“any modality to be considered needs to provide cures”

Righto – you clearly fee that any treatment funded needs EVIDENCE that it is useful. However you are freely willing to dismiss any medical statistical analysis or risk/benefit as “numerology”. Good luck resolving that one Ivor… actually, I know how you will resolve that one – as you have illustrated in this thread, you will believe “numerology” when it supports your side of the argument.

“There are a lot of cures for cancer out there,plus other cures for vascular disease other than amputation and stenting.”

Ok, so if you are proposing that these treatments be funded and must require evidence – let’s see the evidence…. please!

Congratulations Ivor – got cut/paste figured out, have we?

Fear-mongering like that is irrelevant.

“as far as I can see, what you represent here has received scant support yet which you dismiss as axes to grind .. has it not occurred to you that people are pissed off with what you lot are delivering”

No shit Sherlock – if I make pro vaccine posts on an anti-vax website I can expect to receive little support!

Are you unaware that (fortunately) the majority of people in NZ society don’t believe that vaccines are part of a global depopulation strategy, Bill Gates is the Antichrist, Big Pharma is run by the Mossad etc etc (correct me if I’ve mixed up my conspiracy theories)

@ Neo .. I cannot take that cash because it has already been taken by the monopoly. And even that $33 plus 25% tax and GST at 15% is a burden on a lot of people .. have you overlooked that fact ?

I know of one spine specialist who specialized in sending patients to Auckland for what was then a new procedure .. MRI .. it cost a $1000 a pop plus the lady got $60 traveling expenses .. the $1000 was covered by ACC which has a different budget to the 9.7% of GDP that funds the medical system.
ACC has to be paid for as a further impost on top of the taxation. The lady was offered a vertebrae fusion and morphine.

Disgusted she went to the local chiropractor and had everything sorted in two treatments .. no vertebrae fusion and no morphine. I know which procedure provided the least drain on the public purse and saved the lady an awful lot of trouble down the track.

Don’t try to confuse the issue because if one is run down by a bus then obviously emergency treatment is needed if it is available .. further if the damage is such that it cannot be completely fixed then palliative care is essential .. usually pain killers. But don’t try to confuse matters with standard medical practice. Quite obviously Emergency treatment of some kind is an essential .. not so sure about consultants though.

Re the numerology .. its a very different kind of numerology like 1 + 1 = 2 .. but then there is the other kind .. the words of a Mathematician should cover it ,,

The first mathematicians were the priestly calendar makers who calculated the onset of the seasons. The Egyptian temples were equipped with nilometers with which the priests made painstaking records of the rising and falling of the sacred river. With these they could predict the flooding of the Nile with great accuracy. Their papyri show that they possessed a language of measurement very different from the pretentious phraseology with which they fobbed off their prophecies on the laity. The masses could not see the connection between prophecy and reality, because the nilometers communicated with the river by underground channels, skilfully concealed from the eye of the people. The priests of Egypt used one language when they wrote in the proceedings of a learned society and another language when they gave an interview to the “sob sisters” of the Sunday press.
In the ancient world writing and reading were still a mystery and a craft. The plain man could not decipher the Rhind papyrus in which the scribe Ahmes wrote down the laws of measuring things. Civilized societies in the twentieth century have democratized the reading and writing of sort language. Consequently the plain man can understand scientific discoveries if they do not involve complicated measurements. He knows something about evolution. The priestly accounts of the creation have fallen into discredit. So mysticism has to take refuge in the atom. The atom is a safe place not because it is small, but because you have to do complicated measurements and use underground channels to find your way there. These underground channels are concealed from the eye of the people because the plain man has not been taught to read and write size language. Scientific numerology Neo.

All the evidence that one needs is there in plain sight .. I listen to what people say and I do not disdainfully discount it as anecdotal .. that is what you people do unless it comes from one of your closed circle. Has it not occurred to you that allopathic medicine only tracks its own .. except when it comes the liars and cheats at the BMJ then it is ignored as though it never happened.

You are a fraud .. does it not occur to you that the mainstream media and TV hardly ever report natural cures except to take the piss or dismiss it as a fluke or spontaneous remission .. (thats a good one snigger snigger)

You are a fraud because you try to hold what you cant explain to the same levels as pharmageddon who reckon that the development costs millions .. the false studies flutter down like falling snow .. how many of these so called miracle drugs been withdrawn after the evidence that they are killing lots and lots of people, many thousands .. VIOX anyone?

Now if I told you that I cured my self from diagnosed lung cancer, then what sort of proof is required .. full blown medical tests .. xrays by the dozen .. consultations with oncologists ? is that what is needed ? Bahh!!

So if what is to be funded requires proof .. will you accept the evidence which medial science has tried to lie and cheat about and tried to expunge from its own history ??

I will post some for you .. next post and that is why Homeopathy is going to be the next medical paradigm.

And Neo nobody has called Gates the Anti-Christ but I did post the evidence of his depopulation agenda. So just quit the shit Sherlock and get yourself informed ..

This one is for the Gwreat Garry Warry .. dont swallow the great wandy pandys G string.

Some history of the treatment of epidemics with Homeopathy

by Julian Winston

From its earliest days, homeopathy has been able to treat epidemic
diseases with a substantial rate of success, when compared to
conventional treatments. It was these successes that placed the
practice of homeopathy so firmly in the consciousness of people
world-wide.

There is a story told about Joseph Pulte, one of the earliest homeopaths
in Cincinnati. When he began his practice, many people were so angered
by a homeopath being in town that they pelted the house with eggs. He
was becoming discouraged enough to think of leaving. His wife said,
“Joseph, do you believe in the truth of homeopathy?” He replied in the
affirmative. “Then,” she said, “you will stay in Cincinnati.”

Shortly after, when the Cholera epidemic swept through, Pulte was able
to boast of not having lost a single patient– and he was accepted into
the community. In the Epidemic of 1849, people crowded to his door and
stood in the street because the waiting room was full.

In 1900, Thomas Lindsley Bradford, MD, wrote a book called “The Logic of
Figures” in which he collected the statistics he could find that would
compare the conventional therapeutics with homeopathic ones.
Many of the figures cited below are derived from Bradford’s work.

One of the earliest tests of the homeopathic system was in the treatment
of Typhus Fever (spread by lice) in an 1813 epidemic which followed the
devastation of Napoleon’s army marching through Germany to attack
Russia, followed by their retreat. When the epidemic came through
Leipzig as the army pulled back from the east, Samuel Hahnemann, the
founder of homeopathy, was able to treat 180 cases of Typhus– losing
but two. This, at a time when the conventional treatments were having a
mortality rate of over 30%.

In 1830 as the cholera epidemic was reported coming from the east,
Hahnemann was able to identify the stages of the illness, and predict
what remedies would be needed for which stages.

When Cholera finally struck Europe in 1831 the mortality rate (under
conventional treatment) was between 40% (Imperial Council of Russia)
to 80% (Osler’s Practice of Medicine). Out of five people who
contracted Cholera, two to four of them died under regular treatment.
Dr. Quin, in London, reported the mortality in the ten homeopathic
hospitals in 1831-32 as 9%; Dr. Roth, physician to the king of Bavaria,
reported that under homeopathic care the mortality was 7%; Admiral
Mordoinow of the Imperial Russian Council reported 10% mortality under
homeopathy; and Dr. Wild, Allopathic editor of Dublin Quarterly
Journal, reported in Austria, the Allopathic mortality was 66% and the
homeopathic mortality was 33% “and on account of this extraordinary
result, the law interdicting the practice of Homeopathy in Austria was
repealed.”

Homeopathy continued to be effective in the treatment of Epidemic
Cholera. In 1854 a Cholera Epidemic struck London. This was a
historically important epidemic in that it was the first time the
medical community was able to trace the outbreak to a source (a public
water pump), and when the pump was closed, the epidemic soon ceased.
The House of Commons asked for a report about the various methods of
treating the epidemic. When the report was issued, the homeopathic
figures were not included. The House of Lords asked for an explanation,
and it was admitted that if the homeopathic figures were to be included
in the report, it would “skew the results.” The suppressed report
revealed that under allopathic care the mortality was 59.2% while under
homeopathic care the mortality was only 9%.

It is hard today to comprehend what kind of scourge such an epidemic
was. As was seen in the later Flu Epidemic of 1918, one could be
healthy in the morning and be dead by evening– it moved that rapidly.
Many books were written about the Homeopathic treatment of Cholera
during these times, among them: Cholera and its Homeopathic treatment,
F. Humphreys (1849); Homeopathic Treatment of Cholera, B.F. Joslin
(1854); Homeopathic Domestic Treatment of Cholera, Biegler (1858);
Epidemic Cholera, B. F. Joslin (1885); Asiatic Cholera, Jabez Dake
(1886).

The success of homeopathic treatment continued with the later cholera
epidemics. In the Hamburg epidemic of 1892, allopathic mortality was
42%, homeopathic mortality was 15.5% During the 1850s, there were
several epidemics of Yellow Fever in the southern states. This disease
was eventually found to be transmitted by mosquito. Osler, says that
the allopathic mortality from Yellow Fever is between 15-85%. Holcome,
a homeopath, reported in 1853 a mortality of 6.43% in Natchez, and Dr.
Davis, another homeopath in Natchez, reported 5.73%. In 1878 the
mortality in New Orleans was 50% under allopathic care, and 5.6% (in
1,945 cases in the same epidemic) with homeopathic care.

The two best books on this topic were: Yellow Fever and its Homeopathic
Treatment, Holcome, (1856) and The Efficacy of Crotalus Horridus in
Yellow Fever, C. Neidhard, (1860).

Another epidemic disease which was treatable with homeopathy was
Diphtheria. Since the advent of widespread vaccination, it is a disease
not often seen in our modern world. Diphtheria appeared periodically,
and rarely had the same presentation. It was, therefore, very important
for the practitioner to individualize the treatment in each specific
case or generalized epidemic. A remedy which had been effective in
treating it one year might not be the same remedy needed the next year.

In the records of three years of Diphtheria in Broome County, NY from
1862 to 1864, there was a report of an 83.6% mortality rate among the
allopaths and a 16.4% mortality rate among the Homeopaths. (Bradford)

Perhaps the most recent use of homeopathy in a major epidemic was during
the Influenza Pandemic of 1918. The Journal of the American Institute
for Homeopathy, May, 1921, had a long article about the use of
homeopathy in the flu epidemic. Dr. T A McCann, from Dayton, Ohio
reported that 24,000 cases of flu treated allopathically had a mortality
rate of 28.2% while 26,000 cases of flu treated homeopathically had a
mortality rate of 1.05%. This last figure was supported by Dean W.A.
Pearson of Philadelphia (Hahnemann College) who collected 26,795 cases
of flu treated with homeopathy with the above result.

The most common remedy used was Gelsemium, with occasional cases needing
Bryonia and Eupatorium reported. Dr. Herbert A. Roberts from Derby,
CT, said that 30 physicians in Connecticut responded to his request for
data. They reported 6,602 cases with 55 deaths, which is less than 1%.
Dr. Roberts was working as a physician on a troop ship during WWI. He
had 81 cases of flu on the way over to Europe. He reported, “All
recovered and were landed. Every man received homeopathic treatment. One
ship lost 31 on the way.”

Closer to our present time, there were the Polio epidemics in the
mid-1950s. Dr. Alonzo Shadman, a homeopath in the Boston area,
emphasized that until *actual paralysis* was observed, it was hard to
distinguish the prodromal symptoms of Polio from those of the common
cold– and he treated many “summer colds” during the time. Were they
incipient polio? No one can tell.

Dr. Francisco Eizayaga or Argentina, tells of a polio epidemic in
Buenos Aires in 1957, where the symptoms of the epidemic resembled those
of the remedy Lathyrus sativa. The homeopathic doctors and pharmacies
prescribed Lathyrus 30c as a prophylactic, and “thousands of doses” were
distributed. “Nobody registered a case of contagion.”
Eizayaga points out that in other epidemics of polio, Gelsemium was the
indicated remedy– emphasizing, again, the need for individualization.

Homeopathy has been very effective in treating many of the epidemics
during the 19th and early 20th centuries. Why the successes are not
better known is a subject for conjecture. It could be that, like the
physician quoted below, most would rather not see the ineffectiveness of
the conventional therapeutics nor accept the efficacy of homeopathy.
From “Homeopathy In Influenza-A Chorus Of Fifty In Harmony” by W. A.
Dewey, MD (Journal of the American Institute of Homeopathy, May 1921):

One physician in a Pittsburgh hospital asked a nurse if she knew
anything better than what he was doing, because he was losing many
cases. “Yes, Doctor, stop aspirin and go down to a homeopathic
pharmacy, and get homeopathic remedies.” The Doctor replied: “But that
is homeopathy.” “I know it, but the homeopathic doctors for whom I have
nursed have not lost a single case.”–W. F. Edmundson, MD, Pittsburgh.

Homeopathy continued to be effective in the treatment of Epidemic
Cholera. In 1854 a Cholera Epidemic struck London. This was a
historically important epidemic in that it was the first time the
medical community was able to trace the outbreak to a source (a public
water pump), and when the pump was closed, the epidemic soon ceased.
The House of Commons asked for a report about the various methods of
treating the epidemic. When the report was issued, the homeopathic
figures were not included. The House of Lords asked for an explanation,
and it was admitted that if the homeopathic figures were to be included
in the report, it would “skew the results.” The suppressed report
revealed that under allopathic care the mortality was 59.2% while under
homeopathic care the mortality was only 9%.

“You are a fraud .. does it not occur to you that the mainstream media and TV hardly ever report natural cures except to take the piss or dismiss it as a fluke or spontaneous remission .. (thats a good one snigger snigger)”

Bollocks.

60 Minutes and IV Vitamin C ring any bells?

“@ Neo .. I cannot take that cash because it has already been taken by the monopoly. And even that $33 plus 25% tax and GST at 15% is a burden on a lot of people .. have you overlooked that fact ?”

Not at all. But are you advocating that people get all their primary care for free? From ANY treatment provider, mainstream or otherwise? Where is the money for that going to come from?

“So if what is to be funded requires proof .. will you accept the evidence which medial science has tried to lie and cheat about and tried to expunge from its own history ??”

Of course. If the evidence for a treatment has been fabricated it should be abandoned.

“All the evidence that one needs is there in plain sight .. I listen to what people say and I do not disdainfully discount it as anecdotal .. that is what you people do unless it comes from one of your closed circle. Has it not occurred to you that allopathic medicine only tracks its own .. except when it comes the liars and cheats at the BMJ then it is ignored as though it never happened.”

If you were in the situation of deciding whether to fund a particular treatment for thousands of people, spending money that means that other treatments can’t be offered, would you seriously rely on anecdotal evidence? Please answer this one…

Cholera. Good, good. The last outbreak in NZ was probably over a century ago.

How about something more relevant for your redirection of the health dollar?

You mentioned cancer and vascular surgery, please elaborate…

“Consequently the plain man can understand scientific discoveries if they do not involve complicated measurements.”

Agreed. Like 24 out of the first 26 measles cases in Auckland this year being unvaccinated, and the other two being incompletely vaccinated.

Just like your platoon casualties example – no numerology required!

Neo .. Allopathy has been caught lying and cheating on numerous occasions .. why do they do that ?? .. and its not individual Docs but the lies and the cheating usually come from organizations such as the BMA and the BMJ .. this of course is something that has been going on for well over a 100 years ..

The Cholera epidemic .. (now that was a good one snigger snigger) .. we did not include the homeopathic results in the report because it would skew the figures (snigger snigger)

Neo .. your comment .. Not at all. But are you advocating that people get all their primary care for free? From ANY treatment provider, mainstream or otherwise? Where is the money for that going to come from?

The medical slice of the pie was 9.7% of the gross national product .. that is taxpayers money and what I am advocating is that alternative treatments be given the same kind of funding .. it could work like the MMP voting system in terms of $$$kaaching allocated to the modality chosen.

We do not have a say in such matters .. why not?

Cancer and Vascular problems just like certain types of Diabetes can be cured by diet .. but that is too simple eh .. no money in that eh .. cant patent that eh ??

It is all so often that the natural modalities get the allopaths throw outs like the ones they send home to die when the promise of a 5 year survival rate failed to turn up.

I am extremely tired and need to get some sleep .. But tomorrow I will tell you the story of my diagnosed lung cancer .. 22 years ago and it was that experience that made me understand what a bunch of snobbish bastards and liars your lot are and that they had been handling me like a piece of guinea pig meat.

I can tell you that it was not my welfare those poxy doctors had in mind ..

Oh dear, we are in for another twisted story from Ivor. I bet he doesn’t get the doctors who were involved in his cancer scare to present their version of the ‘story’.

While we are on the subject of anecdotes….Ivor has yet to answer Neo’s question “If you were in the situation of deciding whether to fund a particular treatment for thousands of people, spending money that means that other treatments can’t be offered, would you seriously rely on anecdotal evidence? Please answer this one…”

Here is a link for those wanting a laugh. At the stupidity that is homeopathy… http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2012/01/the_homeopathic_treatment_of_burns_the_u.php

Enjoy

Fuck off and die,

you snide old -prick-

Breaking News:

Troll’s Head Plucked Out Into the Daylight – Vitamin D Level Increasing!

Ha ha, that got Ivor’s dogs barking.

The last post disappeared down a black hole this is a test test test .. down Garry .. Down boy .. keep chewing on Randy Pandy,s G string.

To keep it short .. I had been coughing fresh blood .. went through the usual tests .. got sent for by the head cancer honcho .. a Canadian who promptly informed me that he had diagnosed me with Cancer of the lung, and that he needed to take a sample of the tumour in my lung for Biopsy to determine if it was malignant or not ..

He then went on to explain what was on offer .. we use a small circular saw to cut up through the sternum and then we lay the ribs back to expose the pleural cavity and cut out the lung .. if it is not malignant then you can exist for a few years with one lung.

If it is malignant then you will only have a matter of weeks to live. Report to my nurse when you leave and she will arrange an appointment for a Broncoscopy to confirm my diagnosis. The nurse booked me an appointment for 6 weeks hence (note the urgency for a cancer diagnosis)

This Canadian Cancer Specialist was extremely rude and totally lacking in empathy and I almost felt guilty for taking the eminent mans time when he obviously had more important things to do.

Please understand that when the Witch Doctor Points the bone then you are fucked .. Two days later when I had it sorted out in my head, I went onto a raw food diet .. had my own organic garden .. two milking goats and a beehive.

For the first three weeks I smelt so bad .. body odor and poop and pee, it really was awful but I stayed with it .. then came the morning when I awoke .. I had never felt so good in my life .. and whatever it was that had ailed me .. then I had beaten it.

To be continued

The initial x-rays showed a tumor .. star shaped .. approximately 8cm x 8cm in the lower rear of my left lung .. it was outside the bronchial tree and on the inner lining of the lung sac.

If I had imagined that this Canadian would have been pleased that I had overcome a death sentence, and that he would have been full of scientific zeal to find out how it was done .. then my naivety was a great learning and turning point in my life .. it was then that I knew the truth about these people.

To be continued.

I reported for the Broncoscopy .. first another X-ray .. I was wheeled into a theater which was crowded with what appeared to be nurses .. this was a teaching hospital .. I was told that these people had never seen this procedure before .. how could I refuse (lol)

I lay on a gurney and to my right was his Lordship himself, and behind him was a large TV screen so that the juniors could see what was happening when he shoved the doings down my throat, to the side of that was a light screen to hold the X-ray plates .. and it went like this ..

The Master addressed his students .. one may see from the original x-ray the original cancerous tumor taken some 6 weeks ago and here is the latest x-ray .. (this twerp was not looking at the light screen because he had obviously done this before) “and one may see the obvious advancement of the tumor” .. From the audience came the sound of suppressed sniggers .. the Expert stopped and looked at the light screen.

To be continued ..

The cancerous tumor had shrunk to the size of a small persons little finger nail .. please try to understand what was going down here, because there was absolutely no doubt in my mind .. remember these are the people that we entrust our lives to on their say so ..

The expert had lost the plot .. He rounded on me and accused me of tampering with the x-ray and that I had to go and take another x-ray .. with that I was bundled from the gurney and into a wheel chair and was sent down for another x-ray.

Got down to the Radiographer and she had another go at me for messing with the x-ray plates, so we went through the same procedure and I was warned about tampering with the plates which were in a large sealed manilla envelope and back up to the theater again ..

to be continued ..

I was wheeled back into the theater and I handed over the sealed x-ray envelope .. and without it being looked at, I was promptly prepared for the procedure. A lure was inserted into a wrist vein through which the dope would be administered.

The instrument was a flexible tube that contained a movie camera, a light and a pair of nippers that would take and remove the biopsy sample.

When all was ready and everyone masked up, the x-ray was removed from the envelope and placed on the light box and there it sat next to the original x-ray which was nearly 7 weeks old.

No change .. the tumor had shrunk from 8cm x 8cm to a little finger nail size .. two things I understood the speed at which the tumor had shrunk .. it was obviously not cancer and it was obviously non malignant.

The dope was released into the lure and direct to my blood stream, The doings had to be pushed the length of my lung and through capillaries that were obviously to small and which were destroyed in the process and a sample taken from the inner lining of the lung.

I emerged from the drug induced haze in a recovery room and attended by a male nurse .. how are you he said .. I am still spaced .. I am not surprised he said .. we were all wincing at your coughing and they had to keep administering more dope.

probably about 30 minutes later the wall phone rang .. yes he said and listened .. he put the phone back on the hook and said .. really good news .. its non malignant .. three hours later I was released with some antibiotics and told that the hospital would be in touch.

Three months went by before these nasty people contacted me again and during that wait I contracted two separate bouts of pneumonia on top of the medically caused damage .. this is par for the course .. a lot of pneumonia arises from the magic pills and the tampering with the lungs.

I was shown to a room which contained a table .. two chairs and a guy in a white coat .. I inquired where the Canadian was ?

Oh he has left us and gone back to Canada, the white coat said .. I have some good news the tumor was non malignant .. I did not say that I already knew.

What was the tumor about I asked .. we are not sure the white coat said but we think it may be some kind of poultry strain that caused it .. sorry that we cannot be more specific but all of your documents have been lost and we cannot locate them .. have you looked in Canada I asked ?

This white coat was lying .. he knew a lot more than he was coming forth with .. I left the hospital feeling extremely angry.

I was angry because I was being lied to as a cover up of the hospital liability for what they had done .. I asked my GP for my medical records .. there was a gap for the hospital fiasco but I note that from a follow up x-ray and the report .. Intensive scarring .. typical of pneumonia.

Diagnosis is a very inexact science .. I read an article a few years back which was published in the New England Journal of Medicine which bragged that one hospital had a 51% success rate in diagnosis which was confirmed by Autopsy .. note the ominous word autopsy .. 51% ? geewhiz Doc .. that is not much better than a toss of a coin.

To be continued ..

I had been diagnosed with Cancer, which was their justification for doing what they did to me .. smashed up my left lung .. and when that despicable little Canadian saw the x-ray of the shrunken tumor .. it must have been quite obvious that his diagnosis was wrong, and that any justification for doing what he did to me was non existent ..

All of the other doctors in the Cancer Chambers would have known that .. yet those slime balls covered up .. never mind the patient .. the good name of the Horse Piddle shall not carry a shit stain on its escutcheon.

We have all read Neo,s defence of vaccination and the incubus garry warry .. I have heard some real shocking stories over the years garnished with my own experience.

These bastards operate on fear and when one is relatively young, the fear of death and the promise of deliverance are very potent weapons which are freely used by these bush poops and they always deliver far less than their bragging claims.

For the both of you .. the chamber of horrors is going to be closed if only on economic lines because the majority of the cutting, burning and drugging is unnecessary and health problems can be dealt with in more humane and affordable ways.

Let us hope that we will get an emergency medicine and surgery of great finesse as the corruption is sliced away and disposed of in a manner that should be decided by the people themselves.

And hopefully the Judges will get behind the people and ensure that justice is done .. there are going to be a lot of swinging changes in the law and the corporations and corrupt politicians will be dealt with.

So basically you had a shadow on your x ray that was shown, by a biopsy, to be benign. Lucky you.
Then you got pneumonia , not so lucky. Perhaps your immune system was under par because of your raw food diet.

As stories go, not particularly interesting but it reminded me of a doctor I knew many years ago who, when diagnosed with cancer, went onto a raw food diet too. He was dead within 6 months.

Hard to see the connection between your cancer scare and the efficacy and safety of vaccines.

Hope you are off the raw food diet now … cantankerous AND smelly! Too much!

Clik Clak .. if I had to mark your paper for comprehension .. 0/10 .. in fact go to your favorite corner .. you know what to do with the pointed dunces hat .. no no you fool don,t sit on it! .. I don,t care if it gives you a thrill, do not sit on it! ..

Ivor, how come my doctor died after going on a raw food diet and you only got pneumonia?

Or are you going to tell me that correlation is not causation?

Breaking news ..

Extra Vit D failed Troll with foot in his mouth .. He succumbed to malnutrition and the dreaded blue ring syndrome.

Frankenstein and Freud baffled.

This article may be reprinted free of charge provided 1) that there is clear attribution to the Orthomolecular Medicine News Service, and 2) that both the OMNS free subscription link http://orthomolecular.org/subscribe.html and also the OMNS archive link http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/index.shtml are included.

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Orthomolecular Medicine News Service, January 30, 2012
Confessions of a Frustrated Pharmacist

by Stuart Lindsey, PharmD.

(OMNS, Jan 30, 2012) When an insider breaks ranks with pharmaceutical orthodoxy, it is time to take notice. “Whistleblower” may be an overused term, but the article that follows might be well worth readers’ consideration before standing in line for their next prescription refill. – Andrew W. Saul, OMNS Editor

I’m a registered pharmacist. I am having a difficult time with my job. I sell people drugs that are supposed to correct their various health complaints. Some medicines work like they’re supposed to, but many don’t. Some categories of drugs work better than others. My concern is that the outcomes of treatment I observe are so unpredictable that I would often call the entire treatment a failure in too many situations.
How It Started

In 1993, I graduated with a BS in Pharmaceutical Sciences from University of New Mexico. I became pharmacy manager for a small independent neighborhood drug store. Starting in the year 2000, nutrition became an integral part of our business. The anecdotal feedback from the customers who started vitamin regimens was phenomenal. That same year, my PharmD clinical rotations began with my propensity for nutritional alternatives firmly in place in my mind. On the second day of my adult medicine rotation, my preceptor at a nearby hospital informed me that he had every intention of beating this vitamin stuff out of me. I informed him that probably wouldn’t happen. Three weeks later I was terminated from my rotations. The preceptor told my supervisor at UNM that there were acute intellectual differences that couldn’t be accommodated in their program. What had I done? I was pressuring my preceptor to read an article written by an MD at a hospital in Washington state that showed if a person comes into the emergency room with a yet to be diagnosed problem and is given a 3,000-4,000 mg bolus of vitamin C, that person’s chance of dying over the next ten days in ICU dropped by 57%! [1]

One would think that someone who is an active part of the emergency room staff might find that an interesting statistic. His solution to my attempting to force him to read that article was having me removed from the program.
Pecking Order

The traditional role of the pharmacist in mainstream medicine is subordinate to the doctor. The doctor is responsible for most of the information that is received from and given to the patient. The pharmacist’s responsibility is to reinforce the doctor’s directions. The doctor and the pharmacist both want to have a positive treatment outcome, but there is a legally defined ‘standard of care’ looking over their shoulder.

The training that I received to become a PharmD motivated me to become more interested in these treatment outcomes. After refilling a patient’s prescriptions a few times, it becomes obvious that the expected positive outcomes often simply don’t happen. It’s easy to take the low road and blame it on “poor compliance by the patient.” I’m sure this can explain some treatment failure outcomes, but not all. Many (indeed most) drugs such as blood pressure regulators can require several adjustments of dose or combination with alternative medicines before a positive outcome is obtained.
Wrong Drug; Wrong Disease

One drug misadventure is turning drugs that were originally designed for a rare (0.3% of the population) condition called Zollinger-Ellison syndrome into big pharma’s treatment for occasional indigestion. These drugs are called proton-pump inhibitors (PPI). [2] After prolonged exposure to PPIs, the body’s true issues of achlorhydria start to surface. [3]

These drugs are likely to cause magnesium deficiency, among other problems. Even the FDA thinks their long-term use is unwise. [4]

The original instructions for these drugs were for a maximum use of six weeks . . . until somebody in marketing figured out people could be on the drugs for years. Drug usage gets even more complicated when you understand excessive use of antibiotics could be the cause of the initial indigestion complaints. What you get from inserting proton pump inhibitors into this situation is a gastrointestinal nightmare. A better course of medicine in this type of case might well be a bottle of probiotic supplements (or yogurt) and a few quarts of aloe-vera juice.

Many doctors are recognizing there are problems with overusing PPI’s, but many still don’t get it. An example of this is my school in NM had a lot of students going onto a nearby-impoverished area for rotations. They have blue laws in this area with no alcohol sales on Sunday. The students saw the pattern of the patients going into the clinics on Monday after abusing solvents, even gasoline vapors, and having the doctors put them on omeprazole (eg. Prilosec), long term, because their stomachs are upset. This is medicine in the real world.
Reliability or Bias?

Mainstream medicine and pharmacy instill into their practitioners from the beginning to be careful about where you get your information. Medical journals boast of their peer review process. When you discuss with other health professionals, invariably they will ask from which medical journal did you get your information. I actually took an elective course in pharmacy on how to evaluate a particular article for its truthfulness. The class was structured on a backbone of caution about making sure, as one read an article, that we understand that real truthfulness only comes from a few approved sources.

I was never comfortable with this concept. Once you realized that many of these “truthfulness bastions” actually have a hidden agenda, the whole premise of this course became suspect. One of my preceptors for my doctoral program insisted that I become familiar with a particular medical journal. If I did, she said, I would be on my way to understanding the “big picture.” When I expressed being a little skeptical of this journal, the teacher told me I could trust it as the journal was non-profit, and there were no editorial strings attached.

Weirdly enough, what had started our exchange over credibility was a warm can of a diet soft drink on the teacher’s desk. She drank the stuff all day. I was kidding around with her, and asked her if she had seen some controversial articles about the dangers of consuming quantities of aspartame. She scoffed at my conspiracy-theory laden point of view and I thought the subject was closed. The beginning of the next day, the teacher gave me an assignment: to hustle over to the medical library and make sure I read a paper she assured me would set me straight about my aspartame suspicions, while simultaneously demonstrating the value of getting my information from a nonprofit medical journal. It turned out that the article she wanted me to read, in the “nonprofit medical journal,” was funded in its entirety by the Drug Manufacturers Association.
Flashy Pharma Ads

As I read the literature, I discovered that there is very decided barrier between two blocks of information: substances that can be patented vs. those substances that can’t be. The can-be-patented group gets a professional discussion in eye-pleasing, four-color-print, art-like magazines. This attention to aesthetics tricks some people into interpreting, from the flashy presentation method, that the information is intrinsically truthful.

The world’s drug manufacturers do an incredibly good job using all kinds of media penetration to get the word out about their products. The drug industry’s audience used to be confined to readers of medical journals and trade publications. Then, in 1997, direct-to-consumer marketing was made legal. [5]

Personally, I don’t think this kind of presentation should be allowed. I have doctor friends that say they frequently have patients that self-diagnose from TV commercials and demand the doctor write them a prescription for the advertised product. The patients then threaten the doctor, if s/he refuses their request, that they will change doctors to get the medication. One of my doctor friends says he feels like a trained seal.
Negative Reporting on Vitamins

A vitamin article usually doesn’t get the same glossy presentation. Frequently, questionable vitamin research will be published and get blown out of proportion. A prime example of this was the clamor in the press in 2008 that vitamin E somehow caused lung cancer. [6]

I studied this 2008 experiment [7] and found glaring errors in its execution. These errors were so obvious that the experiment shouldn’t have gotten any attention, yet this article ended up virtually everywhere. Anti-vitamin spin requires this kind of research to be widely disseminated to show how “ineffectual” and even “dangerous” vitamins are. I tracked down one of the article’s original authors and questioned him about the failure to define what kind of vitamin E had been studied. A simple literature hunt shows considerable difference between natural and synthetic vitamin E. This is an important distinction because most of the negative articles and subsequent treatment failures have used the synthetic form for the experiment, often because it is cheap. Natural vitamin E with mixed tocopherols and tocotrienols costs two or three times more than the synthetic form.

Before I even got the question out of my mouth, the researcher started up, “I know, I know what you’re going to say.” He ended up admitting that they hadn’t even considered the vitamin E type when they did the experiment. This failure to define the vitamin E type made it impossible to draw a meaningful conclusion. I asked the researcher if he realized how much damage this highly quoted article had done to vitamin credibility. If there has been anything like a retraction, I have yet to see it.
Illness is Not Caused by Drug Deficiency

If you’ve made it this far in reading this article you have discerned that I’m sympathetic to vitamin arguments. I think most diseases are some form of malnutrition. Taking the position that nutrition is the foundation to disease doesn’t make medicine any simpler. You still have to figure out who has what and why. There are many disease states that are difficult to pin down using the “pharmaceutical solution to disease.” A drug solution is a nice idea, in theory. It makes the assumption that the cause of a disease is so well understood that a man-made chemical commonly called ‘medicine’ is administered, very efficiently solving the health problem. The reality though, is medicine doesn’t understand most health problems very well. A person with a heart rhythm disturbance is not low on digoxin. A child who is diagnosed with ADHD does not act that way because the child is low on Ritalin. By the same logic, a person with type II diabetes doesn’t have a deficit of metformin. The flaw of medicine is the concept of managing (but not curing) a particular disease state. I’m hard pressed to name any disease state that mainstream medicine is in control of.

Voltaire allegedly said, “Doctors are men who pour drugs of which they know little, to cure diseases of which they know less, into human beings of whom they know nothing.” Maybe he overstated the problem. Maybe he didn’t.

References:

1. Free full text paper at: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1422648/pdf/20021200s00014p814.pdf

Also: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1422648/?tool=pubmed

2. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2777040 and http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1697548

3. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21509344 and http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21731913

4. http://www.fda.gov/Safety/MedWatch/SafetyInformation/
SafetyAlertsforHumanMedicalProducts/ucm245275.htm

5. http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsa070502#t=articleResults

6. Media example:
http://seniorjournal.com/NEWS/Nutrition-Vitamins/2008/8-02-29-VitaminEMay.htm .

OMNS’ discussion at: http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v04n18.shtml

7. Original article at:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2258445/?tool=pubmed or http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2258445/pdf/AJRCCM1775524.pdf

Nutritional Medicine is Orthomolecular Medicine

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The Situation Room: Autism, Vaccines, and Agent Orange

Dan Burns and BenManaging Editor’s Note: We’re proud to welcome Dan Burns as our newest Age of Autism Contributing Editor. Dan has an adult son with autism named Ben, and his perspective and writing style are a great addition to our content. Welcome, Dan.

By Dan E. Burns

Project Draft 13

I will show you fear in a handful of dust

(T.S. Eliot, The Waste Land).

We stared at it, my Public Relations colleagues and I, perhaps a little too long. Projected on the wall of the Situation Room stood the Agent Orange distillation column, a 50-foot tall steel vessel reigning over a graveyard of oil drums labeled “Diamond Shamrock Corporation” and “Hazardous Waste.”

Agent Orange is not an ingredient in vaccines. But what happened – or didn’t happen – in the Situation Room has a lesson for us, the parents of vaccine-injured children.

In 1983, Vietnam vets from Operation Ranch Hand were suffering from neural and blood disorders, miscarriages, leukemia, and cancers of the prostate, lung, and liver. They were marching, waving signs, and pointing fingers. At us. Allegedly, the damage came not from Agent Orange per se, but from 2,3,7,8-tetrachlorodibenzodioxin, a contaminant produced during the “cooking” or fractionation process when the temperature in the tower rose a little too high for a little too long. As it did in the Diamond Shamrock Ironbound plant. If the EPA is right – the claim is disputed HERE – dioxin is one of the most potent carcinogens known to human kind.

Diamond Shamrock mounted a vigorous defense. “We can’t cure anyone’s cancer,” said the General Counsel. “What’s done is done. If we move one shovelful of dirt more than required, we open ourselves up to additional liability. That would just spread the mess.”

My colleagues in the Situation Room were decent, caring people. “Chipper,” to my right, recruited and went to bat for minorities. “Lou,” to my left, our one-man brain trust, played the blues guitar and wrote protest songs light with whimsy and humor. I was Executive Speechwriter, raising two college-bound children. After an underpaid career in academia, I needed this job.

Lou had researched the issue for years. “In jungle warfare,” he said, “G.I.s were exposed to a host of tropical pathogens, fungi, protozoa, unknown viruses, and biological agents coming at them through novel vectors on all sides. We don’t know what caused their chronic fatigue, birth defects, and cancers. Diamond Shamrock operated under mandate from the government, and our actions were safe, proper, and legal.”

‘That’s right,” chimed in the General Counsel. “We have a fiduciary responsibility to our shareholders. That’s why we’re here today.”

Chipper opened her briefcase. “Here’s how Monsanto handled it,” she said. She passed out a press release, which read, “We are sympathetic with people who believe they have been injured and understand their concern to find the cause, but reliable scientific evidence indicates that Agent Orange is not the cause of serious long-term health effects.”

Of course Agent Orange wasn’t the cause. The issue was the contaminant. Management had acknowledged that the fractionation tower on the wall in front of us had been defective. But Monsanto, through verbal sleight-of-hand, had made the dioxin issue disappear. Though the discussion went around the table, our strategy was a foregone conclusion: the PR team recommended that Diamond Shamrock simply second the Monsanto press release.

Can there be any doubt that recent similar conversations occurred in the Situation Rooms of Merck and GlaxoSmithKline? Not in my mind. As an experiment, substitute “vaccines” for Agent Orange. There you have Pharma’s denial in a nutshell: “Reliable scientific evidence indicates that vaccines are not the cause of autism.”

The lesson is this. We should not expect our colleagues in pharmaceuticals, media, and government to repent or fall on their swords. Some believe their denials. Others silently doubt. In the case of Agent Orange, I wasn’t buying their denials. To my eyes, the defective tower in front of us radiated death. Why didn’t I raise my hand? Group think. Fear of losing the esteem of my colleagues, risking my job.

Late last year, in Dallas, Texas, a vet named Jim rolled up his sleeve. I traced, with the tip of my finger, the tattooed outline of his dead 6-year-old son’s face. Brain cancer. Jim didn’t hold Agent Orange responsible. But my mind flashed back three decades to the tower. And I thought, as it was for the Operation Ranch Hand vets, so for parent of vaccine-injured children: the evidence of harm is in plain sight, tattooed on our children’s anguished faces and on our hearts.

It’s time to end the silence. Children’s lives will continue to be blighted by industrial and biological toxins, including an inadequately tested, unsafe, government-mandated vaccine schedule, until we raise our hands. As father of a 24-year-old son with ASD, I have my truth to tell. So, perhaps, do you. I’m raising my hand today, for Jim’s son and for mine.

Dan E. Burns, Ph.D., is the father of a 24-year-old son on the autism spectrum and the author of Saving Ben: A Father’s Story of Autism. Dr. Burns is Adult Issues Liaison for AutismOne and is a Contributing Editor to Age of Autism. He chairs The Autism Trust USA, (www.theautismtrustusa.org), a 501(c)3 charity focused on empowering parents to organize communities where their ASD children and others can live and work, enjoy life, continue to heal, and give back to society.

Ivor – thanks for sharing that story – interesting reading.

Your specialist sounds like a right twat. Unfortunately medicine, like any profession, is not immune to assholes.

Having been involved in the care of a lot of patients with lung cancer though, I do have to disagree with this statement:

” had been diagnosed with Cancer, which was their justification for doing what they did to me .. smashed up my left lung .. and when that despicable little Canadian saw the x-ray of the shrunken tumor .. it must have been quite obvious that his diagnosis was wrong, and that any justification for doing what he did to me was non existent ..”

Lung cancer is a horrid, horrid illness. Outcomes are poor, survival rates are low, and the best opportunity for cure lies in early detection and treatment. With this in mind unexplained mass lesions in the lungs are typically investigated aggressively. Bronchoscopy is still widely used, but we now have CT scans (and CT guided biopsies, which are less invasive in the arsenal). I assume your illness was in the days prior to the widespread introduction of CT scanners in NZ?

Even with your xray improving it was clearly an unusual and concerning illness you had, and it is not uncommon to develop pneumonia aroud the site of a tumour…. so my two cents worth is that investigating your further with the bronchoscopy was the right thing to do, and with a negative biopsy spared you a pneumonectomy, which is very major surgery.

It’s alll very well saying after a negative biopsy result that the investigation was not justified… but that just highlights the fact that the most powerful too in medicine is, unfortunately, the retrospectoscope…!

Your comparison between Agent Orange and vaccines is not a helpful one. Beyond the “corporations have been wrong before so they can be wrong again” argument, the comparison is useless at a population level.

Far more people have had vaccines than were exposed to Agent Orange. Large scale population studies do NOT support a connection between MMR and autism… and in Japan, where MMR was withdrawn, autism rates continued to rise.

I don’t disagree with the idea that there may be an environmental trigger for autism, but the data (at this point) simply doesn’t support vaccines as a cause. Focusing on vaccines may distract attention away from identifying other potentially treatable causes, and in the meantime results in kids acquiring/dying of preventable diseases.

Neo .. thank you for a civilized reply. The situation that I described happened in 1988. However I must differ with your explanation.

The manner in which that Oncologist dealt with me was quite unbelievable,extremely rude and very frightening.

The x-rays were quite straight forward, the earlier ones showed the very large tumor 8 x 8cm and which that man had expected to be much larger 6 weeks on from his original diagnosis that is why the hospital students laughed at him .. he went puce and turned on me. He had made a fool of himself and could not handle it.

The x-rays taken just prior to his aggressive investigation, showed that the tumor was approx 1cm x 1cm a reduction of great magnitude in a matter of 6 weeks.

That reduction alone should have raised a very large question mark, I consider that his aggressive investigation of my lung was unwarranted.

To that there was also the suspicious disappearance of all the documentation relating to the matter and the 3 month wait to be officially informed that the tumor was non malignant was nasty.

I am well aware that lung cancer is a death sentence and that is what spurred me to undertake a raw food diet to shrink the cancer. The white coat stated that they did not know what it was and that its disappearance was Spontaneous Remission .. Bah !

The pneumonia .. the GP told me that the hospital had ordered further x-rays .. I do not believe that they lost the documentation and were seeking to cover their liability for what this Canadian specialist had done as their employee.

Neo .. I believe that not everyone who had the MMR shot got Autism and the reason is that everyone is different, and the one size fits all of Pharmageddon is not true.

For example Lead is another cause of neurological impairment. During the 1970,s in Birmingham a large UK city there was a large notorious motorway junction called spaghetti junction .. lots of working class houses under the motor way and surrounding it .. lots and lots of neurological damage to some of the children who lived there .. not every child suffered lead poisoning .. if the one size fits all scenario were correct all the kids should have gone doo laddle but they did not.

There is sufficient evidence re the MMR vaccine to exonerate Dr Wakefield.

These Japanese figures appear to be inexplicable until one also remembers the Docs cop out re smoking .. Lung Cancer .. the numbers of smokers in first world countries had dropped considerably .. however the rates of lung cancer are still increasing.

MMR is irrevocably involved with Autism but it may not be the sole culprit.

More garytroll double standards

“the government is not your mommy”. More anecdotes from a relative of a friend?
Anecdotal evidence is not evidence at all.
Anecdotal evidence is not evidence at all.
Anecdotal evidence is not evidence at all.
Anecdotal evidence is not evidence at all.
Anecdotal evidence is not evidence at all.

Oh and in case you have forgotten …
Correlation is not causation.

Posted by Gary | January 29, 2012, 9:31 am”

But then he wrote…

“As stories go, not particularly interesting but it reminded me of a doctor I knew many years ago who, when diagnosed with cancer, went onto a raw food diet too. He was dead within 6 months.”

Posted by Gary | January 30, 2012, 5:59 pm

Anecdotal evidence is not evidence at all.

eh, thats the rules you made for this blog, eh troll.

“The x-rays were quite straight forward, the earlier ones showed the very large tumor 8 x 8cm and which that man had expected to be much larger 6 weeks on from his original diagnosis that is why the hospital students laughed at him .. he went puce and turned on me. He had made a fool of himself and could not handle it.”

Agreed.

“The x-rays taken just prior to his aggressive investigation, showed that the tumor was approx 1cm x 1cm a reduction of great magnitude in a matter of 6 weeks.

That reduction alone should have raised a very large question mark, I consider that his aggressive investigation of my lung was unwarranted.”

Fair enough – that’s your decision. If I were in your shoes, having seen what I’ve seen in regards to lung cancer, I would have proceeded with the investigation, and I’m not surprised your doctor did. If he elected NOT to and it turned out to be cancerous his position would have been utterly indefensible.

“To that there was also the suspicious disappearance of all the documentation relating to the matter and the 3 month wait to be officially informed that the tumor was non malignant was nasty”

Also agreed. Waiting that long for a biopsy result is utterly unacceptable.

How long ago did this happen? While the current system is far from perfect I would hope that situations like yours are far less common now.

As another question, given the views that you have expressed on this website, why did you agree to go aheead with the investigation? The decision to proceed is ultimately yours, not the specialist’s… have your views changed between then and now?

“Anecdotal evidence is not evidence at all.

eh, thats the rules you made for this blog, eh troll.”

Ah, the bitter irony…

I thnik you missed the point, namely for every anecdote, an anecdote showing a different outcome can be found…

hence we cannot rely on anecdata.

Anecdotal evidence

Definition:

non-scientific observations or studies,

which do not provide proof

but may assist research efforts.

Source

“I thnik you missed the point,”

no, not really.

The x-rays were quite straight forward, the earlier ones showed the very large tumor 8 x 8cm and which that man had expected to be much larger 6 weeks on from his original diagnosis that is why the hospital students laughed at him .. he went puce and turned on me. He had made a fool of himself and could not handle it.”

Agreed.
Well I hardly expect a servant of Aesculapius to behave in such a manner .. I will teach these backward Kiwi,s a thing or two, the man held a senior position in the hierarchy .. very poor calibre.

“The x-rays taken just prior to his aggressive investigation, showed that the tumor was approx 1cm x 1cm a reduction of great magnitude in a matter of 6 weeks.

That reduction alone should have raised a very large question mark, I consider that his aggressive investigation of my lung was unwarranted.”

Fair enough – that’s your decision. If I were in your shoes, having seen what I’ve seen in regards to lung cancer, I would have proceeded with the investigation, and I’m not surprised your doctor did. If he elected NOT to and it turned out to be cancerous his position would have been utterly indefensible.
I do believe that what he saw he had absolutely no knowledge of. Cancers generally grow not shrink. Are you saying that if he had not subjected me to a primitive experiment to confirm or deny his diagnosis then he could have been fired ? I was the one with the tumor and I was the one that had to cope with it I knew more about it than anyone alive. My common sense told me that it was cured. The bleeding and the cough left and once those raw vegetables and salads had cleaned me out I stopped smelling and I have never ever felt so good in my life.

“To that there was also the suspicious disappearance of all the documentation relating to the matter and the 3 month wait to be officially informed that the tumor was non malignant was nasty”

Also agreed. Waiting that long for a biopsy result is utterly unacceptable.
Not to mention the strange disappearance of my medical records for that period. When I was finally summoned to appear at the hospital. The man concerned had returned to Canada and my papers missing .. may I venture ..
COVER UP.

How long ago did this happen? While the current system is far from perfect I would hope that situations like yours are far less common now.
Very occasionally and usually a brief notice that so and so was appearing in some medical court .. what goes on is usually hidden from sight. This happened in 1988 .. these courts are kangaroo courts .. the ombudsman system here is a real crock of .. all of those offices are supported and paid for by the very group that the little man is in conflict with .. a good example of that is the Banking Ombudsman’s Office relatively simple matters based on gross errors committed by a Bank are dragged out for 2 or 3 years. Neo, corruption is not removed by moving on .. so things have not got better they are getting worse the abacus sits at the end of the table.
As another question, given the views that you have expressed on this website, why did you agree to go aheead with the investigation? The decision to proceed is ultimately yours, not the specialist’s… have your views changed between then and now?
Good question .. One that I had asked of myself .. because in a way I asked for what I was given and the price that I paid was worth the knowledge gained .. the bed rock .. the truth and not the front job.

A simile will help explain .. when the officer shouts charge! then we charge even though we may be killed. Not exactly a decision, for that is what we had been drilled to do .. there is something about small crowds .. I could almost taste everyone’s expectancy, as though we were all part of a scene .. like a twig floating down river it was like some kind of hypnosis where the expectations manifested the desired scene. Yes its ultimately my decision .. come on Neo what a cop out lol .. Gee doc give me a break .. Are you familiar with Stanley Milgrams book ‘Obedience to Authority. .. What was recorded, was a scientific experiment .. very interesting.

To behave in such a savage manner by destroying my lung was not excused by telling me that it is ultimately my decision, and thus absolving himself for what he has done. No Neo there is something very wrong here because if that man was acting under medical restraint .. such as .. do it! or else lose your job .. A mortgage, a wife and a couple of children needs be fought for .. and stuff my lung .. The root of this canker in the medical world has to be cut out. A doctor must learn how to be a real doctor .. The Great Culpeper was such a one .. some of his words of wisdom …

Many a times I find my patients disturbed by trouble of Conscience or Sorrow, and I have to act the Divine before I can be the Physician. In fact our greatest skill lies in the infusion of Hopes, to induce confidence and peace of mind.

His sympathies lay with the common people and they flocked to him .. so things need to change Neo there must be a great opening of hearts and minds .. after all your job depends on afflicted people .. they are the ones that pay the mortgage and feed the kids .. we are not guinea pigs and all of this human experimentation must stop and then maybe we can concentrate on the plight of our farmed animals .. the poor, the hungry, the homeless but that takes empathy and vision something that I felt was totally lacking.

The flowering of human consciousness is very close and we are due to go up a notch or two in our understanding .. The police repression is in progress around the world and the people are getting ever more agitated .. and its always official violence but it just keeps spreading .. so the Govt has to make a deal or test the breaking strain of a rope there is lots of flax to use.

This is the lesson of history .. it always goes the same way .. they strike a deal or end up like Mussolini ..

Posted by neo | January 31, 2012, 5:48 pm

” just obeying orders” eh Ivor?

“Reductio ad Hitlerum, also argumentum ad Hitlerum, (Latin for “reduction to” and “argument to” and dog Latin for “Hitler” respectively) is an ad hominem or ad misericordiam argument whereby an opponent’s view is compared to a view that would be held by Adolf Hitler or the Nazi Party. It is a fallacy of irrelevance, in which a conclusion is suggested based solely on something’s or someone’s origin rather than its current meaning. The suggested logic is one of guilt by association.”

Yes Gary I obey orders just like you do .. such as the common law that holds our society together .. that is general law of the people but each one of those people obeys a higher command that of sits in the heart temple .. and even your cut and pastes are not much good if you cannot emulate them .. I have seen little evidence of higher consciousness from you, are just a little playground bully, who torments just for the fun of it.

Kick the puppy or kitten, yank a few pigtails here .. steal the smaller kids lunch boxes there.

Which has manifest as the snide little brat that we see running round here.

Grow Up!

It’s not about him being fired Ivor, it’s about avoiding killing patients…

Yes, your ‘tumour’ shrinking on the xrays means the diagnosis of an aggressive cancer is less likely – but does it rule it out? Or more realistically, does it reduce the likelihood of cancer to a level where the risk of further investigation outweighs the risk of this being a cancer?

This is exactly the sort of risk/benefit decision that doctors have to weigh up all the time. It is unfortunately not as black and white as we would like, and frequently decisions are made in the “grey area”. These decisions are not always right.

By ‘indefensible’, what I mean is that if he elected not to do the test and you subsequently died of lung cancer as a result, would his decision not to investigate you have been the approrpiate decision to make? If the chance of your condition being a fatal cancer was 1 in 1000 and the chance of killing you by the investigation itself was 1 in 10, his decision not to investigate would be ‘defensible’. If the figures were reversed his decision would be indefensible.

As for “destroying your lung” – I assume you have two working lungs now? Without a negative biopsy result you may have ended up with one, or one and a bit…

It’s not about him being fired Ivor, it’s about avoiding killing patients…
Ans. Yes Neo .. those are hollow words .. Medical Intervention has killed millions of people globally. the figures that I posted previously re the American situation are a real bummer ..

The other side of the story is just things like that of the failures .. like the Allopaths cant cure cancer but they can offer a 5 year survival rate for some cancers and they just go ahead totally ignoring the Physicians Dictum .. “First Do No Harm”.. They investigate agressively when there was no need .. we are treated like Guinea pig meat

Yes, your ‘tumour’ shrinking on the xrays means the diagnosis of an aggressive cancer is less likely – but does it rule it out? Or more realistically, does it reduce the likelihood of cancer to a level where the risk of further investigation outweighs the risk of this being a cancer?

Neo the patient or more correctly the client .. is the one who has got it!!! Ah how can I explain your kind of attitude ?..There was a French King not long before the French revolution ..

He fell ill with some kind of dreaded lurgy or the other .. the Kings Physician had purged him, cupped him and bled him but the king was getting worse so he called in another eminent doctor and they had a further session with the King .. baffled the locum summoned another eminent doctor .. and they all got stuck into the King .. Apparently the King said to them not long before he died ..”Gentlemen I am sorry that I took so long dying.

He had summed up the ‘Attitude’ perfectly ..

This is exactly the sort of risk/benefit decision that doctors have to weigh up all the time. It is unfortunately not as black and white as we would like, and frequently decisions are made in the “grey area”. These decisions are not always right.
Well once again I do not think that it is the docs decision at all. If a person is terminally ill it is not right to continue to experiment with them .. the death bed is a transit point for new instructions .. smooth the pillow, lay the flowers surround them with friends and family. That is the natural way ..

By ‘indefensible’, what I mean is that if he elected not to do the test and you subsequently died of lung cancer as a result, would his decision not to investigate you have been the approrpiate decision to make? If the chance of your condition being a fatal cancer was 1 in 1000 and the chance of killing you by the investigation itself was 1 in 10, his decision not to investigate would be ‘defensible’. If the figures were reversed his decision would be indefensible.

No no Neo .. that is not the dr,s responsibility. Who makes the rules ? the change from Hippocrates to Beezelbub with the morally tortured ethics and philosophy .. I wonder was it a hard decision ? or was it some way of relieving the Burden of Pressure from the responsibility that they assumed themselves ?

Posted by neo | February 1, 2012, 1:11 pm

As for “destroying your lung” – I assume you have two working lungs now? Without a negative biopsy result you may have ended up with one, or one and a bit

I have 2 lungs that are alive the right is functional .. but the left could not blow up a paper bag so I must say that I have 1 and a bit. And scarring is quite visible.

The negative biopsy was as a result of my work and not medical intervention .. I worked extremely hard for 3 weeks to turn the matter around. I did which was to me .. the proof of the power of Nature .. give her the correct tools and she will do the trick.

“If a person is terminally ill it is not right to continue to experiment with them”

I agree entirely. But how does this apply to you? You were clearly not terminally ill, nor did you think you were… ?

“No no Neo .. that is not the dr,s responsibility. ”

I disagree completely.

If a person is terminally ill it is not right to continue to experiment with them”

I agree entirely. But how does this apply to you? You were clearly not terminally ill, nor did you think you were… ?
Oh but I was in a most serious condition in intensive for weeks and sunk enough morphine to make me a very rich man if it were in a bag. Had to return twice for corrective treatment, it left a memory of being woken every two hours during the 24 hour period night, blood pressure and temperature to be taken .. there was very little fancy stuff at the hospital, so most of those routines had to be performed by hand. I used to come away feeling totally whacked and had to give myself the gentle treatment and plenty of catchup sleep for a week or two to feel normal again.

“No no Neo .. that is not the dr,s responsibility. ”

I disagree completely.
I do not see that the medical desire to accept responsibility over rides my natural right to my own body .. my natural right to determine its fate .. my natural right to shoulder the burden and the responsibility for my own life.

Freedom of Informed Choice .. Health Freedom and a truthful account both sides of the story, because the social agreement that we currently have is starting to smell. The sheets need changing .. That means that you have to lay your dead man down and give it a proper public burial .. The market is growing Neo and when the Mafia come stealing, then one knows that its on, everywhere the people are stirring. I am sure that they wish a better division or a rearrangement of the Health Pie. And in keeping with the Corporate Status they shall forfeit that unfair Monopoly. We need a little competition in the matter, to clear the air.

The majority of the flash equipment needs electricity to operate them and electricity prices are going to go through the roof .. maybe it will have to go for essential equipment only, and thereby create more work which cannot be paid for .. the competition is breathing down the proverbial neck .. Naah Neo I think that your lot are going to try to sell us out.

Natural health .. its much cheaper and presents a prettier picture than what your people have on a offer. People respond to natural treatments because they all belong to the land. Nature birthed us in a natural manner without any coercion and women will get more say in such matters .. they do the job and they are the experts.

SaneVax open letter to educators worldwide: Watch for side effects of HPV vaccines

Tuesday, January 31, 2012 by: Rosemary Mathis, Vice President of Victim Support, SANE VAX, INC.

(NaturalNews) No one can disagree with the fact that children are the future of the world. Without children, there would be no future. As educators you are responsible for not only teaching young minds, but also for the children’s physical health and well-being for several hours each day.

The SaneVax team knows you take your position seriously. Since the adverse events to be expected after HPV vaccine administration, (GardasilR, CervarixR, or Silgard) are not widely published, we would like to provide you with a list of potential health problems your students may experience after administration of HPV vaccines.

Although the manufacturers say these adverse events are rare, in one clinical trial 73.3% of the trial participants experienced new medical conditions after vaccination. Many of them were quite serious. Any new medical condition experienced after vaccination should be considered a potential adverse effect until proven otherwise.

These conditions are quite frequently attributed to causes other than vaccination; hence delaying necessary medical care. This is particularly true of HPV vaccinations, because the side effects may not show up for months.

The most common side effects of HPV vaccines are pain, swelling, itching, bruising and redness at the injection site, headache, fever, nausea, dizziness, vomiting and fainting.
The following side effects are less common, but more dangerous:

*Difficulty breathing, shortness of breath or wheezing (bronco spasm)
*Hives and/or rash
*Swollen glands (neck, armpit, or groin)
*Joint, leg, or chest pain
*Unusual tiredness, weakness, lethargy, brain fog, or confusion
*Chills
*Generally feeling unwell
*Aching muscles and/or muscle weakness
*Difficulty keeping food down, vomiting or stomach ache
*Seizures
*Shortness of breath
*Chest pain
*Bad stomach pain
*Skin infection
*Bleeding or bruising more easily than normal

This list is by no means comprehensive; it is taken directly from HPV patient Product Information inserts. Many young girls from around the world have experienced many more severe events after HPV vaccination. For the health and safety of the children in your care, please be alert to any changes in your student’s health and behavior post-vaccination.

Should a student experience any of the less common side effect symptoms even months after vaccination, please alert their parents to the possibility that the student may be exhibiting a vaccine reaction, so they can consult their physician for proper medical care.

The SaneVax team would like to thank you for taking care of and watching out for the health and well-being of the students throughout the world.

Norma Erickson, President of SaneVax Inc.
Rosemary Mathis, Vice President, Victim Support
Freda Birrell, Secretary
Leslie Carol Botha, Vice President of Public Relations
Janny Stokvis, Vice President of Research
Linda Thompson, Treasurer

Please visit our site at http://sanevax.org/

About the author:
THE SANE VAX MISSION is to promote Safe, Affordable, Necessary & Effective vaccines and vaccination practices through education and information. We believe in science-based medicine. Our primary goal is to provide the information necessary for you to make informed decisions regarding your health and well-being. We also provide referrals to helpful resources for those unfortunate enough to have experienced vaccine-related injuries.

Articles on this site are written by Norma Erickson, President and Leslie Carol Botha, women’s health educator, broadcast journalist and Vice-President Public Relations for SANE Vax, Inc. We also allow content from various contributing authors. Other members include Rosemary Mathis, mother of a Gardasil-injured daughter and Vice President Victim Support; Janny Stokvis, Vice-President Research, Freda Birrell, Secretary and HPV vaccine lobbyist United Kingdom /Scotland, and Linda Thompson, Treasurer.

We are demanding the HPV vaccines be taken off the market until an independent study on their safety and efficacy has been conducted. Until then, we are committing our efforts to an educational media campaign to alert the public about the dangers of the HPV vaccines.

SANE Vax, Inc. is involved in the ground-breaking production of the One More Girl Documentary which will premier in 2012. Please join our cause by contributing to this project by contacting Ryan Richardson, Producer at ryan@onemoregirlfilm.com.

For more information, please visit our site at http://sanevax.org/.

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/034818_HPV_vaccines_side_effects_SaneVax.html#ixzz1l7Ij7Abz

tic-Resistant Bacteria Found in 37 U.S. States

U.S.News & World Report By Jason Koebler | U.S.News & World Report LP – 15 hrs ago

Half a world away, doctors in India are fighting outbreaks of bacterial infections that are resistant to more than 15 types of antibiotics. But closer to home, a similarly scary bug is making the rounds in intensive care and other long-term units of American hospitals.

In at least 37 states, Washington, D.C., and Puerto Rico, doctors have identified bacteria, including E. coli, that produce Klebsiella pneumoniae carbapenemase, or KPC–an enzyme that makes bacteria resistant to most known treatments. It’s much more prevalent in America than bacteria that produce NDM-1, the enzyme that has Indian doctors “hell scared,” and, according to Alexander Kallen, a medical officer at the Centers for Disease Control in Atlanta, the final outcome isn’t much different: superbacteria that are hard to kill.

“It’s got a slightly different structure than [NDM-1],” he says of KPC. “But the bottom line is they’re two different ways to produce bacteria that are resistant to a wide range of antibiotics.”

[Hospital Rooms Crawling With Drug-Resistant Germs.]

That’s bad news for infected patients–the mortality rate for patients infected with KPC-producing bacteria has been estimated to be as high as 50 percent. Doctors are advised to do their best to keep the bacteria from spreading, which explains why the problem is most prevalent in hospitals and other close-quarter medical units. Infected patients are often isolated.

KPC has been seen in a wide range of bacteria, including E. coli, Salmonella, and K. pneumonia, which often affects hospitalized patients.

These superbugs are resistant to nearly every weapon doctors can throw at them, including carbapenems, a class of antibiotic that the CDC calls the “last line of defense” against infections that are resistant to other types of antibiotics. There are a couple antibiotics that have been shown to kill these superbugs, but often at great risk to patients. In fact, the FDA has associated the use of these effective antibiotics with an “increased risk of death” in patients with pneumonia.

That leaves many doctors scratching their heads. KPC-bacteria often grow on medical equipment such as catheters and ventilators, so doctors can sometimes remove that equipment or perform surgery to try to eliminate the infection from a patient’s body.

[Are Kids Brown-Bagging Bacteria?]

CDC researchers, including Kallen, say that hospitals who haven’t been vigilant about isolating patients with KPC-producing bacteria may have missed their chance. According to a paper co-authored by Kallen released last year, “failure to recognize CRE infections when they first occur in a facility has resulted in a missed opportunity to intervene before these organisms are transmitted more widely.”

The good news is that, at least for now, KPC-producing bacteria generally only infects people who already have compromised immune systems. “It can move into the wider community,” says Kallen, “but we haven’t seen much of that yet.”

Ivor, how do you know that the raw food diet caused your tumour to shrink? Remembering that correlation is not necessarily causation.

The Raw food diet didn’t save a person I knew who tried it when diagnosed with cancer. The cancer killed him.

So Ivor, just how do you know? How do you know that the tumour wasn’t already shrinking when the first x ray was taken ? It is even possible that the raw food diet slowed the rate of shrinkage. How would you know?

“correlation is not necessarily causation”. To that I would add that “Causation is not necessarily correlation”.

Raw foods killed a friend of yours ? BULLSHIT – TROLL CRAP

As the medics are so fond of stating .. The earlier the cancer is caught the better the chance of being able to do something .. The natural medicines people are well used to getting the orthodox throw outs .. the orthodox go home, curl up and die, we cannot do anything for you .. what a blessed relief for the victim.

Paracelsus .. said that .. “everything within, can be known by what is without”. With a little training everyone can do it.

Because the taste of blood in the mouth and the increasingly bloody sputum and the change in my stools. How I felt and how my body rhythms were messed up sleepless nights and longer days. Those problems resolved themselves in the first 3 weeks .. that is how I know and beyond any smear of Garrys bull shit.

You need to understand that there are many people who cured their own cancer so they know the truth about ONCOLOGY .. and like me they get out there and spread the word.

You are riding an old knackered horse who is heading for dog and kitty tucker .. Bieeeeeee Troll.

It also appears to me that the Canadian Oncologist had already diagnosed me and laid out in bloody detail what he intended to do ..

And what I think about that is, that the nasty little brat in return for making a fool of himself in front of junior staff .. Then in front of junior staff he blamed me and smashed up my lung up with a totally unnecessary procedure. Mengale’s shadow remains, it appears to have a long reach for those that stand in its shade.

Dear NaturalNews readers,

If you ever had any doubts about Bill Gates’ global depopulation agenda, look no further than today’s headlines: The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation has invested big bucks in a new sperm-destroying technology.

Remember, this is the man who openly said to a live audience that vaccines could help “reduce the world population” by 10 to 15 percent. Now he’s funding efforts to induce widespread male infertility. Read more:
http://www.naturalnews.com/034834_Bill_Gates_sperm_infertility.html

You already know the War on Drugs is a total hoax. But did you realize who benefits from that fabricated war? The big money goes to governments and big mega-banks!
http://www.naturalnews.com/034832_drug_war_money_Big_Brother.html

Wow! Just eating grapes can actually help prevent age-related blindness:
http://www.naturalnews.com/034831_grapes_blindness_lutein.html

Beware of cancer-causing acrylamides lurking in French fries and other fried foods:
http://www.naturalnews.com/034833_acrylamide_French_fries_fried_foods.html

Drug fail: Statin drugs found to increase diabetes risk by 70% in women:
http://www.naturalnews.com/034827_statins_diabetes_women.html

…and radiologists have been caught engaging in widespread cheating on their board certification exams. That’s comforting to know the next time you’re getting fried in a CT scanner, huh?
http://www.naturalnews.com/034829_radiology_cheating_board_certification.html

“I do not see that the medical desire to accept responsibility over rides my natural right to my own body .. my natural right to determine its fate .. my natural right to shoulder the burden and the responsibility for my own life.”

Of course not… ultimately it is your choice what treatment path you follow.. the doctor’s responsibility is to provide an accurate analysis of treatment options including risks/benefits.. usually that involves a recommendation of one course of action, but ultimately the decision is the patient’s (unless they are incapable, for example unconscious after a head injury).

“Raw foods killed a friend of yours ? BULLSHIT – TROLL CRAP”

I suspect that what Gary was implying was that raw food treatment is not helpful in treating cancer.

“Freedom of Informed Choice .. Health Freedom and a truthful account both sides of the story, because the social agreement that we currently have is starting to smell. The sheets need changing .. That means that you have to lay your dead man down and give it a proper public burial .. The market is growing Neo and when the Mafia come stealing, then one knows that its on, everywhere the people are stirring. I am sure that they wish a better division or a rearrangement of the Health Pie. And in keeping with the Corporate Status they shall forfeit that unfair Monopoly. We need a little competition in the matter, to clear the air.”

This is high in mixed metaphors but low on practical information.

So far we have established that you want to provide taxpayer funding for alternative therapy, and that therapy provided should be proven to be useful… we haven’t answered the question of whether you would keep funding for mainstream medicine as it is and annex funds from other areas of the government budget (education, police etc) or scrap mainstream medicine entirely. We also haven’t established your standard for proof of usefulness… I asked you before whether you would be willing to fund treatment for thousands (and therefore remove money from somewhere else) on the basis of ANECDOTAL evidence… what are your thoughts on this?

This is high in mixed metaphors but low on practical information. ..

I agree but they help a layman to understand what I try to convey .. and the thrust of what I have to say is not really meant for you personally ..

Please tell me what you do not understand about cutting up the Budget Pie?

I had assumed that you were capable of thinking for yourself and it must be pretty obvious that if the slices of pie are to be changed to accommodate Natural Therapies then your lot gets less.

How the actual arrangements are made obviously has to be done on the basis of public hui,s held around the nation and a public referendum held to reflect the results ..

It does not seem to occur to you that without Natural Therapies the Orthodox system would collapse under the weight of the burden .. this has already happened in the USA .. think Katrina as one incident .. think of Gaza Hospital when the Israeli slag bags have been to war as another.

Tell me Neo .. what do you think of the Oncologists that had a child made a ward of court .. experimented on the child and then sent it home to die and promptly had the ward of court order lifted ??

The Medical budget has got to be to shorn of the more tea and coffee breaks agenda .. those things that the more aggressive treatments cause great queue,s of crippled wounded and assembly lines of wheelchairs and walkers.

Key public services in the hands of private enterprises has always proved to be a disaster for the consumer and a boon for Mammon .. please let me know if you can understand this use of a metaphor.

As I understand it there is a 6 month waiting list for many things including people who are slowly going blind and need some corrective treatment.

Re the raw food diet or raw veg juice diet … If taken in time Nature cures Cancer but she must be given the tools and not a scalpel slapped in the hand .. first step in a natural regime is to clean the body out, and the liver and kidneys put in better health .. the raw foods provide all of the necessary Vitamins, Minerals and Enzymes that she needs to do the job ..

Tell me Neo .. what do you think of the Oncologists that had a child made a ward of court .. experimented on the child and then sent it home to die and promptly had the ward of court order lifted ??

That was a rather low blow I do hope your eggs don’t swell

OMG Neo fired for undermining Oncology ..

Thanks for the reply Ivor.

You make this statement:

“How the actual arrangements are made obviously has to be done on the basis of public hui,s held around the nation and a public referendum held to reflect the results .. ”

and earlier this statement:

“any modality to be considered needs to provide cures”

How exactly are you going to reconcile this? Are the treatments funded in your vision of the health system going to be those that win the popular vote, or those with evidence behind them to show that the ‘provide cures’? And if you are going to cut some of the currently funded health treatments and send the funding towards ‘alternative treatments’, how are you going to choose which services are cut?

The reason I am asking these questions is that I believe you cannot make these decisions without using the type of “numerology” that you rail against. Or is it all going to be on the basis of anecdotal evidence (you haven’t yet answered this one!) Certainly entrusting this sort of decision making to the lay public would result in a large amount of anecdotal decison making…

“It does not seem to occur to you that without Natural Therapies the Orthodox system would collapse under the weight of the burden”

Wrong. People in NZ currently spend a LARGE amount of money on CAM. If CAM didn’t exist in NZ the private capacity would soak this up and provide care. If there were no private system in Nz your point may be valid.

“The Medical budget has got to be to shorn of the more tea and coffee breaks agenda”

You have no idea how hard people work in the public system.

“As I understand it there is a 6 month waiting list for many things including people who are slowly going blind and need some corrective treatment.”

Perhaps… but they don’t pay for this service. There is nothing to stop them seeking treatment for this via hoemopathy, iridology, colour therapy, or whatever the latest CAM scam is.

“Tell me Neo .. what do you think of the Oncologists that had a child made a ward of court .. experimented on the child and then sent it home to die and promptly had the ward of court order lifted ??”

Sounds abhorrent, but depends on the circumstances and what you mean by ‘experiemented on’. More info please?

Thanks for the reply Ivor…

You make this statement:

“How the actual arrangements are made obviously has to be done on the basis of public hui,s held around the nation and a public referendum held to reflect the results .. ”

and earlier this statement:

“any modality to be considered needs to provide cures”

How exactly are you going to reconcile this? Are the treatments funded in your vision of the health system going to be those that win the popular vote, or those with evidence behind them to show that the ‘provide cures’? And if you are going to cut some of the currently funded health treatments and send the funding towards ‘alternative treatments’, how are you going to choose which services are cut?

The reason I am asking these questions is that I believe you cannot make these decisions without using the type of “numerology” that you rail against. Or is it all going to be on the basis of anecdotal evidence (you haven’t yet answered this one!) Certainly entrusting this sort of decision making to the lay public would result in a large amount of anecdotal decison making…

“It does not seem to occur to you that without Natural Therapies the Orthodox system would collapse under the weight of the burden”

Wrong. People in NZ currently spend a LARGE amount of money on CAM. If CAM didn’t exist in NZ the private capacity would soak this up and provide care. If there were no private system in Nz your point may be valid.

“The Medical budget has got to be to shorn of the more tea and coffee breaks agenda”

You have no idea how hard people work in the public system.

“As I understand it there is a 6 month waiting list for many things including people who are slowly going blind and need some corrective treatment.”

Perhaps… but they don’t pay for this service. There is nothing to stop them seeking treatment for this via hoemopathy, iridology, colour therapy, or whatever the latest CAM scam is.

“Tell me Neo .. what do you think of the Oncologists that had a child made a ward of court .. experimented on the child and then sent it home to die and promptly had the ward of court order lifted ??”

Sounds abhorrent, but depends on the circumstances and what you mean by ‘experiemented on’. More info please?

Thanks for the reply Ivor…

You make this statement:

“How the actual arrangements are made obviously has to be done on the basis of public hui,s held around the nation and a public referendum held to reflect the results .. ”

and earlier this statement:

“any modality to be considered needs to provide cures”

Cures and not palliation .. Votes by the people themselves, just need to be counted and the % of the total vote shown.

How exactly are you going to reconcile this? Are the treatments funded in your vision of the health system going to be those that win the popular vote, or those with evidence behind them to show that the ‘provide cures’? And if you are going to cut some of the currently funded health treatments and send the funding towards ‘alternative treatments’, how are you going to choose which services are cut?

The reason I am asking these questions is that I believe you cannot make these decisions without using the type of “numerology” that you rail against. Or is it all going to be on the basis of anecdotal evidence (you haven’t yet answered this one!) Certainly entrusting this sort of decision making to the lay public would result in a large amount of anecdotal decison making…

First let me allow Einstein a say .. As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality.
Albert Einstein ..

Obviously I am speaking of a Cultural Revolution .. where the people themselves are given the facts of the medical matters and not the cozy little biased articles published in the MSM and the Medical Journals and especially not the BMJ, they have very badly soiled their knickers and the poop is leaking top and bottom lol .. just imagine being sent to a dairy farm of 300 cows in the winter for re-education .. oh dear oh dear. Tell me exactly what is your taki with Anecdotal Evidence?

“It does not seem to occur to you that without Natural Therapies the Orthodox system would collapse under the weight of the burden”

Wrong. People in NZ currently spend a LARGE amount of money on CAM. If CAM didn’t exist in NZ the private capacity would soak this up and provide care. If there were no private system in Nz your point may be valid.

You seem to have something very wrong Neo .. I had noticed how private care in public hospitals gets a lot of attention from staff at the expense of other patients.
There is a 6 month waiting list for many of the hospital offerings and one man I spoke to told me that he had to wait for 13 months for a hernia operation .. whereas if he paid for it he would get the operation within a week at the outside. Any Paid care is at the expense of the public system ..

“The Medical budget has got to be to shorn of the more tea and coffee breaks agenda”

You have no idea how hard people work in the public system.

I know how hard they work and some are paid very good money in exchange whilst others are exploited far beyond any kind of decency.. rest home staff are on $13 per hour .. there are a number of things currently on offer which are extremely expensive and totally unnecessary.

An old gentleman that I have recently spoke with .. was diagnosed with peripheral vascular disease .. he used to get cold feet and the occasional tingles, he mentioned this to his Doc who sent him for a Hospital appointment.

11 months after that fateful visit to the Doc he had 3 amputations first the big toe then the foot above the ankle that went bad and they amputated again above the knee. How stupid is this ??

A plumber as a metaphor for a cardio vascular surgeon .. when the sink or pipes are blocked they usually inject some gunk into the system to clear it out.

If that old man had gone first to a natural therapist he would have still had two legs.

When the second foot and leg started to play up .. it was on occasions going a deep purple color .. he attended a homeopath for some advice and was prescribed a $16 dollar bottle of a homeopathic remedy which set the body in motion to dissolve the plaque in arteries and veins that was causing the problem. It did the trick .. He said that he should have got a wider range of opinion in the first place .. but I,ll not go near those butchers again. Anecdotal Evidence eh ?

The evidence is in the legs .. one cut off and the other now in pretty good shape for his age. Neo I have seen hundreds of people with their stories to tell about the system .. The internet is also a very good source for such info.

“As I understand it there is a 6 month waiting list for many things including people who are slowly going blind and need some corrective treatment.”

Perhaps… but they don’t pay for this service. There is nothing to stop them seeking treatment for this via hoemopathy, iridology, colour therapy, or whatever the latest CAM scam is.

CAM scam eh your agenda is hanging out .. put it away quick .. What is wrong with you man ? do you not understand that many people cannot afford anything but the public system .. what is it you are not understanding about ‘Cant Afford It’ .. Obviously you know nothing of what Iridology is about and I would not be asking for a cure .. color therapy is a recognized modality .. And so is Homeopathy .. you may rant all you like but you cannot change the story ..As a medical system it has been shown on comparison to be the better system .. it is the second largest medical system in the world .. I expect when it noses into first place .. the figures will not be presented in case they skew the report

“Tell me Neo .. what do you think of the Oncologists that had a child made a ward of court .. experimented on the child and then sent it home to die and promptly had the ward of court order lifted ??”

Sounds abhorrent, but depends on the circumstances and what you mean by ‘experiemented on’. More info please?

Chemo and Radiation are extremely savage practices and those that survive it are remarkable people.
Any application of these medical practices is a hit and miss affair. in other words they are experimenting .. One look at these people when they are undergoing this so called treatment makes one turn ones eyes away .. the treatment is enough to kill one if not now then later.

Sounds abhorrent, but depends on the circumstances well can you remember young Liam who was on the run with his parents from the cops? Liam was doing really well until the cops arrested his parents and took him to the tender mercies of the Monsters .. he died shortly after the treatment ..

As you said Neo .. its better they die with family .. excuse me whilst I go and puke.

Courts of law must needs evaluate anecdotal evidence .. and yes they do make some mistakes but they tend to be right more often than they are wrong .. have you not understood what I have been hinting at Neo?

Some of the matters being discussed will involve a lot of Criminal Law stuff .. remember that the Nuremberg Tribunal hung Doctors for far less than the Doctors do to people today .. You had better hope that the people do not hold up the teaching of Hippocrates and especially ‘First Do no Harm’

The major problem for society will be cleaning up the people mess that this so called modern medicine has caused and we have now a huge problem of long term care for many of the casualties of the orthodox system.

So let me get this straight – your definition of whether a treatment provides a cure is whether the public votes that it does?

Holy shit.

“Obviously I am speaking of a Cultural Revolution .. where the people themselves are given the facts of the medical matters and not the cozy little biased articles published in the MSM and the Medical Journals and especially not the BMJ”

Who exactly is going to collate the information that will be provided to the public, and more importantly, how will you make sure the information they provide is unbiased? I’m also somewhat puzzled how you will show that one therapy is better than another without using mathematics and ‘numerology’. Thoughts?

“There is a 6 month waiting list for many of the hospital offerings and one man I spoke to told me that he had to wait for 13 months for a hernia operation .. whereas if he paid for it he would get the operation within a week at the outside. Any Paid care is at the expense of the public system”

Completely wrong. The private system actually decompresses the public system – without it waiting times in the public system would be longer.

“Sounds abhorrent, but depends on the circumstances well can you remember young Liam who was on the run with his parents from the cops? Liam was doing really well until the cops arrested his parents and took him to the tender mercies of the Monsters .. he died shortly after the treatment”

I assume you are referring to Liam Williams Holloway, whose parents ignored their doctors’ view that he had a good chance of survival with conventional treatment, and instead took him for bullshit-o-therapy in Mexico, where he died and was rapidly cremated before an autopsy could be performed to show that the bullshit-o-therapy was not working?

“CAM scam eh your agenda is hanging out .. put it away quick .. What is wrong with you man ? do you not understand that many people cannot afford anything but the public system .. what is it you are not understanding about ‘Cant Afford It’ .. Obviously you know nothing of what Iridology is about and I would not be asking for a cure .. color therapy is a recognized modality .. And so is Homeopathy .. you may rant all you like but you cannot change the story ..As a medical system it has been shown on comparison to be the better system .. it is the second largest medical system in the world .. I expect when it noses into first place .. the figures will not be presented in case they skew the report ”

Hmmm.. a few issues here.

First up, the CAM industry turns over 760 million dollars annually in NZ (35 billion in the USA)

How exactly has CAM been shown to be a better system? Evidence please.

As for it being the second largest medical system – thats not a stellar achievement, given that the options are:

conventional medicine
CAM
diddly-squat

” know how hard they work and some are paid very good money in exchange whilst others are exploited far beyond any kind of decency.. rest home staff are on $13 per hour .. there are a number of things currently on offer which are extremely expensive and totally unnecessary.”

Sheesh.

Rest homes are NOT part of taxpayer-funded public health system.

They are private businesses.

“When the second foot and leg started to play up .. it was on occasions going a deep purple color .. he attended a homeopath for some advice and was prescribed a $16 dollar bottle of a homeopathic remedy which set the body in motion to dissolve the plaque in arteries and veins that was causing the problem. It did the trick .. He said that he should have got a wider range of opinion in the first place .. but I,ll not go near those butchers again. Anecdotal Evidence eh ?”

Right, so lets see you put your money where your mouth is. On the basis of this anecdote involving a single patient, would you stop the provision of vascular surgery and angioplasty and replace it with homeopathy, for the THOUSANDS of NZers affected by PVD?

Looking forward to the answer to this question.

Ivor ranted “Raw foods killed a friend of yours ? BULLSHIT – TROLL CRAP”

What I actually wrote was ” The Raw food diet didn’t save a person I knew who tried it when diagnosed with cancer. The cancer killed him.”

I didn’t write that he was ka friend and I clearly stated I that the cancer killed him.

I applaud your valiant efforts Neo and they may well be helpful to rational people lurking here looking for answers, but as soon as Igor wrote ” . color therapy is a recognized modality ..” I knew that he is a lost cause. The only recognition color therapy has is as a scam. And it appears that Ivor will believe anything provided there is no scientific evidence supporting it.

Neo .. Sheesh.

Rest homes are NOT part of taxpayer-funded public health system.

They are private businesses.

I have visited lots of the elderly in their homes, in hospitals and Rest Homes .. Yes they are businesses and it is perhaps as a result of trying to make a profit that there are strong whiffs of elder abuse and it has also been reported where some of those entrusted with their care have actually physically abused them .. Those elders on state pensions cannot afford the costs involved .. I have been told that it costs approx $117 per day .. therefore the govt takes the pension .. and subsidizes the resident and gives them $40 per week back .. that sum has to cover podiatrist, barber and things like soap shampoo, razors as well as those items which are peculiar to the ladies ..

Your lot are already taking nearly 10% of the total tax take .. plus the ACC and plus the Rest Homes .. those combined costs must be in the region of 15 or 16 billion dollars .. all those costs are related because they are part of the medical system .. it would be interesting to know what the private beds cost and how much of a profit do your lot make from that?

I warrant that those faceless people who are saddled cleaning the wards and staff rooms in Hospitals are not paid any more than rest home staff because the medical system is also a business with an abacus sitting at the end of the board room table.

What a bloody rip off those people should go and build their own hospitals and go and have their treatment there instead of sucking off taxpayers resources that have been built with the taxpayers money. But that is how things are eh?? The Taxpayer pays twice. Pharmageddon ensures that the system has plenty of repeat business and cures for anything are in very short supply.

Right, so lets see you put your money where your mouth is. On the basis of this anecdote involving a single patient, would you stop the provision of vascular surgery and angioplasty and replace it with homeopathy, for the THOUSANDS of NZers affected by PVD?

Looking forward to the answer to this question.

My first question relating to THOUSANDS of Kiwi,s with PVD .. where is all this disease coming from .. am I to believe the Doctors cop out .. he/she is a smoker or even better oh this is caused by second hand smoke .. gee those are good ones .. snigger snigger! .. Where does all of this tidal wave of disease come from ?
I have never seen so many sick adults and children in a first world country in my life.

Right, so lets see you put your money where your mouth is. On the basis of this anecdote involving a single patient, would you stop the provision of vascular surgery and angioplasty and replace it with homeopathy.

Does that anecdote not arouse your curiosity ? just imagine if it turned out to be a scientific fact .. sounds to me to be far cheaper and less crippling and invasive than vascular surgery and angioplasty.

I have seen the before and after .. and you have not .. the homeopathic remedy flushed out the plaque and as such it should be investigated .. not have a garry or orthodoxy done on it .. it needs to be investigated.!

However Neo,s reputation in front of his peers and bosses would take a nose dive and there is no way that these people are going to give up a nice profitable little line in surgery .. I wonder how much the Cardio vascular Surgeons make per month and I wonder how much that differs from the hospital cleaners ? who probably save more lives than any surgeon. Do I need to explain that to you?

Now this CAM business .. another piece of Orthodox bullwhatsit .. Complementary and Alternative Medicine eh? Well its not complementary to orthodxy and it is not an alternative .. natural treatments have been around long before any kind of history and until circa 1950 a very large chunk of the Materia Medica was comprised of herbs and their derivatives .. it would also be interesting to compare the death tolls between then and now.

You have a remarkably short memory, or should I say short selective memory your question of whether your lot gets sheared of some funds on the basis of 1 proven case .. you have already had the answer .. earlier in the thread.

I have suggested that we need a change and that change is coming. I hope it is a lawful change and not the kind being fiddled in Libya and Syria, because the mob is like an animal that the police and the army would be unable to control .. I am not au fait with the many skills needed to bring about such a change.

What I have done is to use the power of projection based on my life’s experience .. Its long past the “Let Them Eat Cake” scenario .. The natives are restless and the drums are rolling.

And nowhere to go because the disaffection is underway everywhere. And it was all self inflicted .. Karma .. what you have sown .. so shall you reap!

Oh I forgot you guys don’t believe in things like that .. no vitalism for the creme de la creme of medicine .. constipation can be quickly relieved with an infusion of senna pods .. 1 ounce to the pint or 30 grams to 500ml .. 5 wineglasses daily and store in fridge .. mind I think it may take 10 litre’s to produce any movement

Pharmageddons Daily Monster News.

The truth about Microsoft and the Bill Gates global vaccination agenda just keeps getting more bizarre by the day.

Now we learn that back in 2009, Microsoft purchased a gene-targeting drug and vaccine development company from Merck, then entered into a collaboration agreement with Merck to develop genetically-targeted drug and vaccine technology.

Remember, Bill Gates called GMOs “high tech agriculture.” And he has openly and publicly admitted that he wants to use vaccines to engage in global depopulation.

Skeptical? Read this story yourself, check out the links, watch the video and then see what you think:
http://www.naturalnews.com/034848_Microsoft_Merck_eugenics.html

The former VP of Monsanto (Michael Taylor) is slated to be granted a top position at the FDA. Surprised? Washington D.C. is just a corporate-run corruption operation that routinely betrays the People. Take action now to oppose Michael Taylor’s involvement with the FDA:
http://www.naturalnews.com/034847_Michael_Taylor_Monsanto_FDA.html

Johnson & Johnson has issued yet another health hazard warning, this time about its baby lotion being contaminated with potentially deadly bacteria:
http://www.naturalnews.com/034846_Johnson_&_baby_lotion_bacteria.html

And did you know that crops are sprayed with MSG? Bizarre food fact:
http://www.naturalnews.com/034845_MSG_glutamic_acid_crops.html

Hey, do you think members of Congress should be allowed to engage in insider trading? Currently they do it every day, and they just explain it’s a “benefit” of being in Congress. A new law aims to crack down on this corruption practice in Congress:
http://www.naturalnews.com/034839_STOCK_Act_insider_trading_Congress.html

Must-see video: Check out our video interview with “economic hitman” John Perkins! Fresh interview with Jonathan Landsman and the Health Ranger:
http://tv.naturalnews.com/v.asp?v=111332E809229FA272EBFA532B954772

More Monster News

Thyroid medical scans use radioactive dye, now linked to permanent thyroid damage
(NaturalNews) Cardiac computed tomography (CT) and other medical scans sometimes involve injecting a radioactive iodide dye into the bloodstreams of patients in order to highlight the produced images. But a new study published in the journal Archives…

Bill Gates funds technology to destroy your sperm
(NaturalNews) Mass vaccination is apparently not the only depopulation strategy being employed by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, as new research funded by the organization has developed a way to deliberately destroy sperm using ultrasound technology…

More Monster News

http://euobserver.com/24/26973

EUOBSERVER / BRUSSELS – Adverse reactions to medication is the fifth most common cause of death in hospitals according to the European Commission, but EU agencies and national governments have until now kept secret pharmaceutical companies’ reports on side-effects.

The notes – known in the business as Periodic Safety Update Reports (PSURs) – are submitted regularly to national authorities and the European Medicines Agency in London.

The industry says documents of this type are easily misunderstood and misinterpreted.

The PSURs for example detail how doctors in various countries suspect that teenagers grow suicidal when taking a certain medication against pimples, or that a diet product could lead to a stroke and what industry has to say about the medical fears.

A team of Dutch, Danish and Belgian journalists has now used freedom of information legislation in the Netherlands and Denmark to get partial access to the documents, where patient gender, age and country of origin are blacked out to protect privacy and business interests. A legal decision is pending in Belgium.

The move by Dutch daily newspaper Trouw, Belgian magazine Knack in cooperation with Danish magazine Samvirke to put the documents on the internet comes as the European Commission on Tuesday (22 October) decided to delay the publication of a new package of regulation for drugs producers.

Yet More Monster News .. but wait there is more

Human medical experimentation in the United States: The shocking true history of modern medicine and psychiatry (1833-1965)

Monday, March 06, 2006 by: Dani Veracity

Introduction by the Health Ranger: The United States claims to be the world leader in medicine. But there’s a dark side to western medicine that few want to acknowledge: The horrifying medical experiments performed on impoverished people and their children all in the name of scientific progress. Many of these medical experiments were conducted on people without their knowledge, and most were conducted as part of an effort to seek profits from newly approved drugs or medical technologies.

Today, the medical experiments continue on the U.S. population and its children. From the mass drugging of children diagnosed with fictitious behavioral disorders invented by psychiatry to the FDA’s approval of mass-marketed drugs that have undergone no legitimate clinical trials, our population is right now being subjected to medical experiments on a staggering scale. Today, nearly 50% of Americans are on a least one prescription drug, and nearly 20% of schoolchildren are on mind-altering amphetamines like Ritalin or antidepressants like Prozac. This mass medication of our nation is, in every way, a grand medical experiment taking place right now.

But to truly understand how this mass experimentation on modern Americans came into being, you have to take a close look at the horrifying history of conventional medicine’s exploitation of people for cruel medical experiments.

WARNING: What you are about to read is truly shocking. You have never been told this information by the American Medical Association, nor drug companies, nor the evening news. You were never taught the truth about conventional medicine in public school, or even at any university. This is the dark secret of the U.S. system of medicine, and once you read the true accounts reported here, you may never trust drug companies again. These images are deeply disturbing. We print them here not as a form of entertainment, but as a stern warning against what might happen to us and our children if we do not rein in the horrifying, inhumane actions of Big Pharma and modern-day psychiatry.

Now, I introduce this shocking timeline, researched and authored by Dani Veracity, one of our many talented staff writers here at Truth Publishing.

Read at your own risk. – The Health Ranger

The true U.S. history of human medical experimentation
Human experimentation — that is, subjecting live human beings to science experiments that are sometimes cruel, sometimes painful, sometimes deadly and always a risk — is a major part of U.S. history that you won’t find in most history or science books. The United States is undoubtedly responsible for some of the most amazing scientific breakthroughs. These advancements, especially in the field of medicine, have changed the lives of billions of people around the world — sometimes for the better, as in the case of finding a cure for malaria and other epidemic diseases, and sometimes for the worse (consider modern “psychiatry” and the drugging of schoolchildren).

However, these breakthroughs come with a hefty price tag: The human beings used in the experiments that made these advancements possible. Over the last two centuries, some of these test subjects have been compensated for the damage done to their emotional and physical health, but most have not. Many have lost their lives because of the experiments they often unwillingly and sometimes even unwittingly participated in, and they of course can never be compensated for losing their most precious possession of all: Their health.

As you read through these science experiments, you’ll learn the stories of newborns injected with radioactive substances, mentally ill people placed in giant refrigerators, military personnel exposed to chemical weapons by the very government they served and mentally challenged children being purposely infected with hepatitis. These stories are facts, not fiction: Each account, no matter how horrifying, is backed up with a link or citation to a reputable source.

These stories must be heard because human experimentation is still going on today. The reasons behind the experiments may be different, but the usual human guinea pigs are still the same — members of minority groups, the poor and the disadvantaged. These are the lives that were put on the line in the name of “scientific” medicine.
(1833)
Dr. William Beaumont, an army surgeon physician, pioneers gastric medicine with his study of a patient with a permanently open gunshot wound to the abdomen and writes a human medical experimentation code that asserts the importance of experimental treatments, but also lists requirements stipulating that human subjects must give voluntary, informed consent and be able to end the experiment when they want. Beaumont’s Code lists verbal, rather than just written, consent as permissible (Berdon).
(1845)
(1845 – 1849) J. Marion Sims, later hailed as the “father of gynecology,” performs medical experiments on enslaved African women without anesthesia. These women would usually die of infection soon after surgery. Based on his belief that the movement of newborns’ skull bones during protracted births causes trismus, he also uses a shoemaker’s awl, a pointed tool shoemakers use to make holes in leather, to practice moving the skull bones of babies born to enslaved mothers (Brinker).
(1895)
New York pediatrician Henry Heiman infects a 4-year-old boy whom he calls “an idiot with chronic epilepsy” with gonorrhea as part of a medical experiment (“Human Experimentation: Before the Nazi Era and After”).
(1896)
Dr. Arthur Wentworth turns 29 children at Boston’s Children’s Hospital into human guinea pigs when he performs spinal taps on them, just to test whether the procedure is harmful (Sharav).
(1900)
U.S Army doctors working in the Philippines infect five Filipino prisoners with plague and withhold proper nutrition to create Beriberi in 29 prisoners; four test subjects die (Merritte, et al.; Cockburn and St. Clair, eds.).

Under commission from the U.S. surgeon general, Dr. Walter Reed goes to Cuba and uses 22 Spanish immigrant workers to prove that yellow fever is contracted through mosquito bites. Doing so, he introduces the practice of using healthy test subjects, and also the concept of a written contract to confirm informed consent of these subjects. While doing this study, Dr. Reed clearly tells the subjects that, though he will do everything he can to help them, they may die as a result of the experiment. He pays them $100 in gold for their participation, plus $100 extra if they contract yellow fever (Berdon, Sharav).
(1906)
Harvard professor Dr. Richard Strong infects prisoners in the Philippines with cholera to study the disease; 13 of them die. He compensates survivors with cigars and cigarettes. During the Nuremberg Trials, Nazi doctors cite this study to justify their own medical experiments (Greger, Sharav).
(1911)
Dr. Hideyo Noguchi of the Rockefeller Institute for Medical Research publishes data on injecting an inactive syphilis preparation into the skin of 146 hospital patients and normal children in an attempt to develop a skin test for syphilis. Later, in 1913, several of these children’s parents sue Dr. Noguchi for allegedly infecting their children with syphilis (“Reviews and Notes: History of Medicine: Subjected to Science: Human Experimentation in America before the Second World War”).
(1913)
Medical experimenters “test” 15 children at the children’s home St. Vincent’s House in Philadelphia with tuberculin, resulting in permanent blindness in some of the children. Though the Pennsylvania House of Representatives records the incident, the researchers are not punished for the experiments (“Human Experimentation: Before the Nazi Era and After”).
(1915)
Dr. Joseph Goldberger, under order of the U.S. Public Health Office, produces Pellagra, a debilitating disease that affects the central nervous system, in 12 Mississippi inmates to try to find a cure for the disease. One test subject later says that he had been through “a thousand hells.” In 1935, after millions die from the disease, the director of the U.S Public Health Office would finally admit that officials had known that it was caused by a niacin deficiency for some time, but did nothing about it because it mostly affected poor African-Americans. During the Nuremberg Trials, Nazi doctors used this study to try to justify their medical experiments on concentration camp inmates (Greger; Cockburn and St. Clair, eds.).
(1918)
In response to the Germans’ use of chemical weapons during World War I, President Wilson creates the Chemical Warfare Service (CWS) as a branch of the U.S. Army. Twenty-four years later, in 1942, the CWS would begin performing mustard gas and lewisite experiments on over 4,000 members of the armed forces (Global Security, Goliszek).
(1919)
(1919 – 1922) Researchers perform testicular transplant experiments on inmates at San Quentin State Prison in California, inserting the testicles of recently executed inmates and goats into the abdomens and scrotums of living prisoners (Greger).
(1931)
Cornelius Rhoads, a pathologist from the Rockefeller Institute for Medical Research, purposely infects human test subjects in Puerto Rico with cancer cells; 13 of them die. Though a Puerto Rican doctor later discovers that Rhoads purposely covered up some of details of his experiment and Rhoads himself gives a written testimony stating he believes that all Puerto Ricans should be killed, he later goes on to establish the U.S. Army Biological Warfare facilities in Maryland, Utah and Panama, and is named to the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission, where he begins a series of radiation exposure experiments on American soldiers and civilian hospital patients (Sharav; Cockburn and St. Clair, eds.).

(1931 – 1933) Mental patients at Elgin State Hospital in Illinois are injected with radium-266 as an experimental therapy for mental illness (Goliszek).
(1932)
(1932-1972) The U.S. Public Health Service in Tuskegee, Ala. diagnoses 400 poor, black sharecroppers with syphilis but never tells them of their illness nor treats them; instead researchers use the men as human guinea pigs to follow the symptoms and progression of the disease. They all eventually die from syphilis and their families are never told that they could have been treated (Goliszek, University of Virginia Health System Health Sciences Library).
(1937)
Scientists at Cornell University Medical School publish an angina drug study that uses both placebo and blind assessment techniques on human test subjects. They discover that the subjects given the placebo experienced more of an improvement in symptoms than those who were given the actual drug. This is first account of the placebo effect published in the United States (“Placebo Effect”).
(1939)
In order to test his theory on the roots of stuttering, prominent speech pathologist Dr. Wendell Johnson performs his famous “Monster Experiment” on 22 children at the Iowa Soldiers’ Orphans’ Home in Davenport. Dr. Johnson and his graduate students put the children under intense psychological pressure, causing them to switch from speaking normally to stuttering heavily. At the time, some of the students reportedly warn Dr. Johnson that, “in the aftermath of World War II, observers might draw comparisons to Nazi experiments on human subjects, which could destroy his career” (Alliance for Human Research Protection).
(1941)
Dr. William C. Black infects a 12-month-old baby with herpes as part of a medical experiment. At the time, the editor of the Journal of Experimental Medicine, Francis Payton Rous, calls it “an abuse of power, an infringement of the rights of an individual, and not excusable because the illness which followed had implications for science” (Sharav).

An article in a 1941 issue of Archives of Pediatrics describes medical studies of the severe gum disease Vincent’s angina in which doctors transmit the disease from sick children to healthy children with oral swabs (Goliszek).

Drs. Francis and Salk and other researchers at the University of Michigan spray large amounts of wild influenza virus directly into the nasal passages of “volunteers” from mental institutions in Michigan. The test subjects develop influenza within a very short period of time (Meiklejohn).

Researchers give 800 poverty-stricken pregnant women at a Vanderbilt University prenatal clinic “cocktails” including radioactive iron in order to determine the iron requirements of pregnant women (Pacchioli).
(1942)
The United States creates Fort Detrick, a 92-acre facility, employing nearly 500 scientists working to create biological weapons and develop defensive measures against them. Fort Detrick’s main objectives include investigating whether diseases are transmitted by inhalation, digestion or through skin absorption; of course, these biological warfare experiments heavily relied on the use of human subjects (Goliszek).

U.S. Army and Navy doctors infect 400 prison inmates in Chicago with malaria to study the disease and hopefully develop a treatment for it. The prisoners are told that they are helping the war effort, but not that they are going to be infected with malaria. During Nuremberg Trials, Nazi doctors later cite this American study to defend their own medical experiments in concentration camps like Auschwitz (Cockburn and St. Clair, eds.).

The Chemical Warfare Service begins mustard gas and lewisite experiments on 4,000 members of the U.S. military. Some test subjects don’t realize they are volunteering for chemical exposure experiments, like 17-year-old Nathan Schnurman, who in 1944 thinks he is only volunteering to test “U.S. Navy summer clothes” (Goliszek).

In an experiment sponsored by the U.S. Navy, Harvard biochemist Edward Cohn injects 64 inmates of Massachusetts state prisons with cow’s blood (Sharav).

Merck Pharmaceuticals President George Merck is named director of the War Research Service (WRS), an agency designed to oversee the establishment of a biological warfare program (Goliszek).
(1943)
In order to “study the effect of frigid temperature on mental disorders,” researchers at University of Cincinnati Hospital keep 16 mentally disabled patients in refrigerated cabinets for 120 hours at 30 degrees Fahrenheit (Sharav).
(1944)
As part of the Manhattan Project that would eventually create the atomic bomb, researchers inject 4.7 micrograms of plutonium into soldiers at the Oak Ridge facility, 20 miles west of Knoxville, Tenn. (“Manhattan Project: Oak Ridge”).

Captain A. W. Frisch, an experienced microbiologist, begins experiments on four volunteers from the state prison at Dearborn, Mich., inoculating prisoners with hepatitis-infected specimens obtained in North Africa. One prisoner dies; two others develop hepatitis but live; the fourth develops symptoms but does not actually develop the disease (Meiklejohn).

Laboratory workers at the University of Minnesota and University of Chicago inject human test subjects with phosphorus-32 to learn the metabolism of hemoglobin (Goliszek).

(1944 – 1946) In order to quickly develop a cure for malaria — a disease hindering Allied success in World War II — University of Chicago Medical School professor Dr. Alf Alving infects psychotic patients at Illinois State Hospital with the disease through blood transfusions and then experiments malaria cures on them (Sharav).

A captain in the medical corps addresses an April 1944 memo to Col. Stanford Warren, head of the Manhattan Project’s Medical Section, expressing his concerns about atom bomb component fluoride’s central nervous system (CNS) effects and asking for animal research to be done to determine the extent of these effects: “Clinical evidence suggests that uranium hexafluoride may have a rather marked central nervous system effect … It seems most likely that the F [code for fluoride] component rather than the T [code for uranium] is the causative factor ... Since work with these compounds is essential, it will be necessary to know in advance what mental effects may occur after exposure." The following year, the Manhattan Project would begin human-based studies on fluoride's effects (Griffiths and Bryson).

The Manhattan Project medical team, led by the now infamous University of Rochester radiologist Col. Safford Warren, injects plutonium into patients at the University's teaching hospital, Strong Memorial (Burton Report).
(1945)
Continuing the Manhattan Project, researchers inject plutonium into three patients at the University of Chicago's Billings Hospital (Sharav).

The U.S. State Department, Army intelligence and the CIA begin Operation Paperclip, offering Nazi scientists immunity and secret identities in exchange for work on top-secret government projects on aerodynamics and chemical warfare medicine in the United States ("Project Paperclip").

Researchers infect 800 prisoners in Atlanta with malaria to study the disease (Sharav).

(1945 - 1955) In Newburgh, N.Y., researchers linked to the Manhattan Project begin the most extensive American study ever done on the health effects of fluoridating public drinking water (Griffiths and Bryson).
(1946)
Gen. Douglas MacArthur strikes a secret deal with Japanese physician Dr. Shiro Ishii to turn over 10,000 pages of information gathered from human experimentation in exchange for granting Ishii immunity from prosecution for the horrific experiments he performed on Chinese, Russian and American war prisoners, including performing vivisections on live human beings (Goliszek, Sharav).

Male and female test subjects at Chicago's Argonne National Laboratories are given intravenous injections of arsenic-76 so that researchers can study how the human body absorbs, distributes and excretes arsenic (Goliszek).

Continuing the Newburg study of 1945, the Manhattan Project commissions the University of Rochester to study fluoride's effects on animals and humans in a project codenamed "Program F." With the help of the New York State Health Department, Program F researchers secretly collect and analyze blood and tissue samples from Newburg residents. The studies are sponsored by the Atomic Energy Commission and take place at the University of Rochester Medical Center's Strong Memorial Hospital (Griffiths and Bryson).

(1946 - 1947) University of Rochester researchers inject four male and two female human test subjects with uranium-234 and uranium-235 in dosages ranging from 6.4 to 70.7 micrograms per one kilogram of body weight in order to study how much uranium they could tolerate before their kidneys become damaged (Goliszek).

Six male employees of a Chicago metallurgical laboratory are given water contaminated with plutonium-239 to drink so that researchers can learn how plutonium is absorbed into the digestive tract (Goliszek).

Researchers begin using patients in VA hospitals as test subjects for human medical experiments, cleverly worded as "investigations" or "observations" in medical study reports to avoid negative connotations and bad publicity (Sharav).

The American public finally learns of the biowarfare experiments being done at Fort Detrick from a report released by the War Department (Goliszek).

(1946 - 1953) The U.S. Atomic Energy Commission sponsors studies in which researchers from Harvard Medical School, Massachusetts General Hospital and the Boston University School of Medicine feed mentally disabled students at Fernald State School Quaker Oats breakfast cereal spiked with radioactive tracers every morning so that nutritionists can study how preservatives move through the human body and if they block the absorption of vitamins and minerals. Later, MIT researchers conduct the same study at Wrentham State School (Sharav, Goliszek).

Human test subjects are given one to four injections of arsenic-76 at the University of Chicago Department of Medicine. Researchers take tissue biopsies from the subjects before and after the injections (Goliszek).
(1947)
Col. E.E. Kirkpatrick of the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission (AEC) issues a top-secret document (707075) dated Jan. 8. In it, he writes that "certain radioactive substances are being prepared for intravenous administration to human subjects as a part of the work of the contract" (Goliszek).

A secret AEC document dated April 17 reads, "It is desired that no document be released which refers to experiments with humans that might have an adverse reaction on public opinion or result in legal suits," revealing that the U.S. government was aware of the health risks its nuclear tests posed to military personnel conducting the tests or nearby civilians (Goliszek).

The CIA begins studying LSD's potential as a weapon by using military and civilian test subjects for experiments without their consent or even knowledge. Eventually, these LSD studies will evolve into the MKULTRA program in 1953 (Sharav).

(1947 - 1953) The U.S. Navy begins Project Chatter to identify and test so-called "truth serums," such as those used by the Soviet Union to interrogate spies. Mescaline and the central nervous system depressant scopolamine are among the many drugs tested on human subjects (Goliszek).
(1948)
Based on the secret studies performed on Newburgh, N.Y. residents beginning in 1945, Project F researchers publish a report in the August 1948 edition of the Journal of the American Dental Association, detailing fluoride's health dangers. The U.S. Atomic Energy Commission (AEC) quickly censors it for "national security" reasons (Griffiths and Bryson).
(1950)
(1950 - 1953) The CIA and later the Office of Scientific Intelligence begin Project Bluebird (renamed Project Artichoke in 1951) in order to find ways to "extract" information from CIA agents, control individuals "through special interrogation techniques," "enhance memory" and use "unconventional techniques, including hypnosis and drugs" for offensive measures (Goliszek).

(1950 - 1953) The U.S. Army releases chemical clouds over six American and Canadian cities. Residents in Winnipeg, Canada, where a highly toxic chemical called cadmium is dropped, subsequently experience high rates of respiratory illnesses (Cockburn and St. Clair, eds.).

In order to determine how susceptible an American city could be to biological attack, the U.S. Navy sprays a cloud of Bacillus globigii bacteria from ships over the San Francisco shoreline. According to monitoring devices situated throughout the city to test the extent of infection, the eight thousand residents of San Francisco inhale five thousand or more bacteria particles, many becoming sick with pneumonia-like symptoms (Goliszek).

Dr. Joseph Strokes of the University of Pennsylvania infects 200 female prisoners with viral hepatitis to study the disease (Sharav).

Doctors at the Cleveland City Hospital study changes in cerebral blood flow by injecting test subjects with spinal anesthesia, inserting needles in their jugular veins and brachial arteries, tilting their heads down and, after massive blood loss causes paralysis and fainting, measuring their blood pressure. They often perform this experiment multiple times on the same subject (Goliszek).

Dr. D. Ewen Cameron, later of MKULTRA infamy due to his 1957 to1964 experiments on Canadians, publishes an article in the British Journal of Physical Medicine, in which he describes experiments that entail forcing schizophrenic patients at Manitoba's Brandon Mental Hospital to lie naked under 15- to 200-watt red lamps for up to eight hours per day. His other experiments include placing mental patients in an electric cage that overheats their internal body temperatures to 103 degrees Fahrenheit, and inducing comas by giving patients large injections of insulin (Goliszek).
(1951)
The U.S. Navy's Project Bluebird is renamed Project Artichoke and begins human medical experiments that test the effectiveness of LSD, sodium pentothal and hypnosis for the interrogative purposes described in Project Bluebird's objectives (1950) (Goliszek).

The U.S. Army secretly contaminates the Norfolk Naval Supply Center in Virginia and Washington, D.C.'s National Airport with a strain of bacteria chosen because African-Americans were believed to be more susceptible to it than Caucasians. The experiment causes food poisoning, respiratory problems and blood poisoning (Cockburn and St. Clair, eds.).

(1951 - 1952) Researchers withhold insulin from diabetic patients for up to two days in order to observe the effects of diabetes; some test subjects go into diabetic comas (Goliszek).

(1951 - 1956) Under contract with the Air Force's School of Aviation Medicine (SAM), the University of Texas M.D. Anderson Cancer Center in Houston begins studying the effects of radiation on cancer patients -- many of them members of minority groups or indigents, according to sources -- in order to determine both radiation's ability to treat cancer and the possible long-term radiation effects of pilots flying nuclear-powered planes. The study lasts until 1956, involving 263 cancer patients. Beginning in 1953, the subjects are required to sign a waiver form, but it still does not meet the informed consent guidelines established by the Wilson memo released that year. The TBI studies themselves would continue at four different institutions -- Baylor University College of Medicine, Memorial Sloan-Kettering Institute for Cancer Research, the U.S. Naval Hospital in Bethesda and the University of Cincinnati College of Medicine -- until 1971 (U.S. Department of Energy, Goliszek).

American, Canadian and British military and intelligence officials gather a small group of eminent psychologists to a secret meeting at the Ritz-Carlton Hotel in Montreal about Communist "thought-control techniques." They proposed a top-secret research program on behavior modification -- involving testing drugs, hypnosis, electroshock and lobotomies on humans (Barker).
(1952)
Military scientists use the Dugway Proving Ground -- which is located 87 miles southwest of Salt Lake City, Utah -- in a series of experiments to determine how Brucella suis and Brucella melitensis spread in human populations. Today, over a half-century later, some experts claim that we are all infected with these agents as a result of these experiments (Goliszek).

In a U.S. Department of Denfense-sponsored experiment, Henry Blauer dies after he is injected with mescaline at Columbia University's New York State Psychiatric Institute (Sharav).

At the famous Sloan-Kettering Institute, Chester M. Southam injects live cancer cells into prisoners at the Ohio State Prison to study the progression of the disease. Half of the prisoners in this National Institutes of Health-sponsored (NIH) study are black, awakening racial suspicions stemming from Tuskegee, which was also an NIH-sponsored study (Merritte, et al.).
(1953)
(1953 - 1970) The CIA begins project MKNAOMI to "stockpile incapacitating and lethal materials, to develop gadgetry for the disseminations of these materials, and to test the effects of certain drugs on animals and humans." As part of MKNAOMI, the CIA and the Special Operations Division of the Army Biological Laboratory at Fort Detrick try to develop two suicide pill alternatives to the standard cyanide suicide pill given to CIA agents and U-2 pilots. CIA agents and U-2 pilots are meant to take these pills when they find themselves in situations in which they (and all the information they hold in their brains) are in enemy hands. They also develop a "microbioinoculator" -- a device that agents can use to fire small darts coated with biological agents that can remain potent for weeks or even months. These darts can be fired through clothing and, most significantly, are undetectable during autopsy. Eventually, by the late 1960s, MKNAOMI enables the CIA to have a stockpile of biological toxins -- infectious viruses, paralytic shellfish toxin, lethal botulism toxin, snake venom and the severe skin disease-producing agent Mircosporum gypseum. Of course, the development of all of this "gadgetry" requires human experimentation (Goliszek).

(1953 - 1974) CIA Director Allen Dulles authorizes the MKULTRA program to produce and test drugs and biological agents that the CIA could use for mind control and behavior modification. MKULTRA later becomes well known for its pioneering studies on LSD, which are often performed on prisoners or patrons of brothels set up and run by the CIA. The brothel experiments, known as "Operation Midnight Climax," feature two-way mirrors set up in the brothels so that CIA agents can observe LSD's effects on sexual behavior. Ironically, governmental figures sometimes slip LSD into each other's drinks as part of the program, resulting in the LSD psychosis-induced suicide of Dr. Frank Olson indirectly at the hands of MKULTRA's infamous key player Dr. Sidney Gottlieb. Of all the hundreds of human test subjects used during MKULTRA, only 14 are ever notified of the involvement and only one is ever compensated ($15,000). Most of the MKULTRA files are eventually destroyed in 1973 (Elliston; Merritte, et al.; Barker).

The U.S. Atomic Energy Commission (AEC) sponsors iodine studies at the University of Iowa. In the first study, researchers give pregnant women 100 to 200 microcuries of iodine-131 and then study the women's aborted embryos in order to learn at what stage and to what extent radioactive iodine crosses the placental barrier. In the second study, researchers give 12 male and 13 female newborns under 36 hours old and weighing between 5.5 and 8.5 pounds iodine-131 either orally or via intramuscular injection, later measuring the concentration of iodine in the newborns' thyroid glands (Goliszek).

Secretary of Defense Charles Wilson issues the Wilson memo, a top-secret document establishing the Nuremberg Code as Department of Defense policy on human experimentation. The Wilson memo requires voluntary, written consent from a human medical research subject after he or she has been informed of "the nature, duration, and purpose of the experiment; the method and means by which it is to be conducted; all inconveniences and hazards reasonably to be expected; and effects upon his health or person which may possibly come from his participation in the experiment." It also insists that doctors only use experimental treatments when other methods have failed (Berdon).

As part of an AEC study, researchers feed 28 healthy infants at the University of Nebraska College of Medicine iodine-131 through a gastric tube and then test concentration of iodine in the infants' thyroid glands 24 hours later (Goliszek).

(1953 - 1957) Eleven patients at Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston are injected with uranium as part of the Manhattan Project (Sharav).

In an AEC-sponsored study at the University of Tennessee, researchers inject healthy two- to three-day-old newborns with approximately 60 rads of iodine-131 (Goliszek).

Newborn Daniel Burton becomes blind when physicians at Brooklyn Doctors Hospital perform an experimental high oxygen treatment for Retrolental Fibroplasia, a retinal disorder affecting premature infants, on him and other premature babies. The physicians perform the experimental treatment despite earlier studies showing that high oxygen levels cause blindness. Testimony in Burton v. Brooklyn Doctors Hospital (452 N.Y.S.2d875) later reveals that researchers continued to give Burton and other infants excess oxygen even after their eyes had swelled to dangerous levels (Goliszek, Sharav).

The CIA begins Project MKDELTA to study the use of biochemicals "for harassment, discrediting and disabling purposes" (Goliszek).

A 1953 article in Clinical Science describes a medical experiment in which researchers purposely blister the abdomens of 41 children, ranging in age from eight to 14, with cantharide in order to study how severely the substance irritates the skin (Goliszek).

The AEC performs a series of field tests known as "Green Run," dropping radiodine 131 and xenon 133 over the Hanford, Wash. site -- 500,000 acres encompassing three small towns (Hanford, White Bluffs and Richland) along the Columbia River (Sharav).

In an AEC-sponsored study to learn whether radioactive iodine affects premature babies differently from full-term babies, researchers at Harper Hospital in Detroit give oral doses of iodine-131 to 65 premature and full-term infants weighing between 2.1 and 5.5 pounds (Goliszek).
(1954)
The CIA begins Project QKHILLTOP to study Chinese Communist Party brainwashing techniques and use them to further the CIA's own interrogative methods. Most experts speculate that the Cornell University Medical School Human Ecology Studies Program conducted Project QKHILLTOP's early experiments (Goliszek).

(1954 - 1975) U.S. Air Force medical officers assigned to Fort Detrick's Chemical Corps Biological Laboratory begin Operation Whitecoat -- experiments involving exposing human test subjects to hepatitis A, plague, yellow fever, Venezuelan equine encephalitis, Rift Valley fever, rickettsia and intestinal microbes. These test subjects include 2,300 Seventh Day Adventist military personnel, who choose to become human guinea pigs rather than potentially kill others in combat. Only two of the 2,300 claim long-term medical complications from participating in the study ("Operation Whitecoat".)

In a general memo to university researchers under contract with the military, the Surgeon General of the U.S. Army asserts the human experimentation guidelines -- including informed, written consent -- established in the classified Wilson memo (Goliszek).
(1955)
In U.S. Army-sponsored experiments performed at Tulane University, mental patients are given LSD and other drugs and then have electrodes implanted in their brain to measure the levels (Barker, "The Cold War Experiments").

(1955 - 1957) In order to learn how cold weather affects human physiology, researchers give a total of 200 doses of iodine-131, a radioactive tracer that concentrates almost immediately in the thyroid gland, to 85 healthy Eskimos and 17 Athapascan Indians living in Alaska. They study the tracer within the body by blood, thyroid tissue, urine and saliva samples from the test subjects. Due to the language barrier, no one tells the test subjects what is being done to them, so there is no informed consent (Goliszek).

(1955 - 1965) As a result of their work with the CIA's mind control experiments in Project QKHILLTOP, Cornell neurologists Harold Wolff and Lawrence Hinkle begin the Society for the Investigation of Human Ecology (later renamed the Human Ecology Fund) to study "man's relation to his social environment as perceived by him" (Goliszek).
(1956)
(1956 - 1957) U.S. Army covert biological weapons researchers release mosquitoes infected with yellow fever and dengue fever over Savannah, Ga., and Avon Park, Fla., to test the insects' ability to carry disease. After each test, Army agents pose as public health officials to test victims for effects and take pictures of the unwitting test subjects. These experiments result in a high incidence of fevers, respiratory distress, stillbirths, encephalitis and typhoid among the two cities' residents, as well as several deaths (Cockburn and St. Clair, eds.).
(1957)
The U.S. military conducts Operation Plumbbob at the Nevada Test Site, 65 miles northwest of Las Vegas. Operation Pumbbob consists of 29 nuclear detonations, eventually creating radiation expected to result in a total 32,000 cases of thyroid cancer among civilians in the area. Around 18,000 members of the U.S. military participate in Operation Pumbbob's Desert Rock VII and VIII, which are designed to see how the average foot soldier physiologically and mentally responds to a nuclear battlefield ("Operation Plumbbob", Goliszek).

(1957 - 1964) As part of MKULTRA, the CIA pays McGill University Department of Psychiatry founder Dr. D. Ewen Cameron $69,000 to perform LSD studies and potentially lethal experiments on Canadians being treated for minor disorders like post-partum depression and anxiety at the Allan Memorial Institute, which houses the Psychiatry Department of the Royal Victoria Hospital in Montreal. The CIA encourages Dr. Cameron to fully explore his "psychic driving" concept of correcting madness through completely erasing one's memory and rewriting the psyche. These "driving" experiments involve putting human test subjects into drug-, electroshock- and sensory deprivation-induced vegetative states for up to three months, and then playing tape loops of noise or simple repetitive statements for weeks or months in order to "rewrite" the "erased" psyche. Dr. Cameron also gives human test subjects paralytic drugs and electroconvulsive therapy 30 to 40 times, as part of his experiments. Most of Dr. Cameron's test subjects suffer permanent damage as a result of his work (Goliszek, "Donald Ewan Cameron").

In order to study how blood flows through children's brains, researchers at Children's Hospital in Philadelphia perform the following experiment on healthy children, ranging in age from three to 11: They insert needles into each child's femoral artery (thigh) and jugular vein (neck), bringing the blood down from the brain. Then, they force each child to inhale a special gas through a facemask. In their subsequent Journal of Clinical Investigation article on this study, the researchers note that, in order to perform the experiment, they had to restrain some of the child test subjects by bandaging them to boards (Goliszek).
(1958)
Approximately 300 members of the U.S. Navy are exposed to radiation when the Navy destroyer Mansfield detonates 30 nuclear bombs off the coasts of Pacific Islands during Operation Hardtack (Goliszek).

The U.S. Atomic Energy Commission (AEC) drops radioactive materials over Point Hope, Alaska, home to the Inupiats, in a field test known under the codename "Project Chariot" (Sharav).
(1961)
In response to the Nuremberg Trials, Yale psychologist Stanley Milgram begins his famous Obedience to Authority Study in order to answer his question "Could it be that (Adolf) Eichmann and his million accomplices in the Holocaust were just following orders? Could we call them all accomplices?" Male test subjects, ranging in age from 20 to 40 and coming from all education backgrounds, are told to give "learners" electric shocks for every wrong answer the learners give in response to word pair questions. In reality, the learners are actors and are not receiving electric shocks, but what matters is that the test subjects do not know that. Astoundingly, they keep on following orders and continue to administer increasingly high levels of "shocks," even after the actor learners show obvious physical pain ("Milgram Experiment").
(1962)
Researchers at the Laurel Children's Center in Maryland test experimental acne antibiotics on children and continue their tests even after half of the young test subjects develop severe liver damage because of the experimental medication (Goliszek). The U.S. Army's Deseret Test Center begins Project 112. This includes SHAD (Shipboard Hazard and Defense), which exposes U.S. Navy and Army personnel to live toxins and chemical poisons in order to determine naval ships' vulnerability to chemical and biological weapons. Military personnel are not test subjects; conducting the tests exposes them. Many of these participants complain of negative health effects at the time and, decades later, suffer from severe medical problems as a result of their exposure (Goliszek, Veterans Health Administration).

The FDA begins requiring that a new pharmaceutical undergo three human clinical trials before it will approve it. From 1962 to 1980, pharmaceutical companies satisfy this requirement by running Phase I trials, which determine a drug's toxicity, on prison inmates, giving them small amounts of cash for compensation (Sharav).
(1963)
Chester M. Southam, who injected Ohio State Prison inmates with live cancer cells in 1952, performs the same procedure on 22 senile, African-American female patients at the Brooklyn Jewish Chronic Disease Hospital in order to watch their immunological response. Southam tells the patients that they are receiving "some cells," but leaves out the fact that they are cancer cells. He claims he doesn't obtain informed consent from the patients because he does not want to frighten them by telling them what he is doing, but he nevertheless temporarily loses his medical license because of it. Ironically, he eventually becomes president of the American Cancer Society (Greger, Merritte, et al.).

Researchers at the University of Washington directly irradiate the testes of 232 prison inmates in order to determine radiation's effects on testicular function. When these inmates later leave prison and have children, at least four have babies born with birth defects. The exact number is unknown because researchers never follow up on the men to see the long-term effects of their experiment (Goliszek).

In a National Institutes of Health-sponsored (NIH) study, a researcher transplants a chimpanzee's kidney into a human. The experiment fails (Sharav).

(1963 - 1966) New York University researcher Saul Krugman promises parents with mentally disabled children definite enrollment into the Willowbrook State School in Staten Island, N.Y., a resident mental institution for mentally retarded children, in exchange for their signatures on a consent form for procedures presented as "vaccinations." In reality, the procedures involve deliberately infecting children with viral hepatitis by feeding them an extract made from the feces of infected patients, so that Krugman can study the course of viral hepatitis as well the effectiveness of a hepatitis vaccine (Hammer Breslow).

(1963 - 1971) Leading endocrinologist Dr. Carl Heller gives 67 prison inmates at Oregon State Prison in Salem $5 per month and $25 per testicular tissue biopsy in compensation for allowing him to perform irradiation experiments on their testes. If they receive vasectomies at the end of the study, the prisoners are given an extra $100 (Sharav, Goliszek).

Researchers inject a genetic compound called radioactive thymidine into the testicles of more than 100 Oregon State Penitentiary inmates to learn whether sperm production is affected by exposure to steroid hormones (Greger).

In a study published in Pediatrics, researchers at the University of California's Department of Pediatrics use 113 newborns ranging in age from one hour to three days old in a series of experiments used to study changes in blood pressure and blood flow. In one study, doctors insert a catheter through the newborns' umbilical arteries and into their aortas and then immerse the newborns' feet in ice water while recording aortic pressure. In another experiment, doctors strap 50 newborns to a circumcision board, tilt the table so that all the blood rushes to their heads and then measure their blood pressure (Goliszek).
(1964)
(1964 - 1968) The U.S. Army pays $386,486 (the largest sum ever paid for human experimentation) to University of Pennsylvania Professors Albert Kligman and Herbert W. Copelan to run medical experiments on 320 inmates of Holmesburg Prison to determine the effectiveness of seven mind-altering drugs. The researchers' objective is to determine the minimum effective dose of each drug needed to disable 50 percent of any given population (MED-50). Though Professors Kligman and Copelan claim that they are unaware of any long-term effects the mind-altering agents might have on prisoners, documents revealed later would prove otherwise (Kaye).

(1964 - 1967) The Dow Chemical Company pays Professor Kligman $10,000 to learn how dioxin -- a highly toxic, carcinogenic component of Agent Orange -- and other herbicides affect human skin because workers at the chemical plant have been developing an acne-like condition called Chloracne and the company would like to know whether the chemicals they are handling are to blame. As part of the study, Professor Kligman applies roughly the amount of dioxin Dow employees are exposed to on the skin 60 prisoners, and is disappointed when the prisoners show no symptoms of Chloracne. In 1980 and 1981, the human guinea pigs used in this study would begin suing Professor Kligman for complications including lupus and psychological damage (Kaye).
(1965)
The Department of Defense uses human test subjects wearing rubber clothing and M9A1 masks to conduct 35 trials near Fort Greely, Ala., as part of the Elk Hunt tests, which are designed to measure the amount of VX nerve agent put on the clothing of people moving through VX-contaminated areas or touching contaminated vehicles, and the amount of VX vapor rising from these areas. After the tests, the subjects are decontaminated using wet steam and high-pressure cold water (Goliszek).

As part of a test codenamed "Big Tom," the Department of Defense sprays Oahu, Hawaii's most heavily populated island, with Bacillus globigii in order to simulate an attack on an island complex. Bacillus globigii causes infections in people with weakened immune systems, but this was not known to scientists at the time (Goliszek, Martin).

(1966)
The CIA continues a limited number of MKULTRA plans by beginning Project MKSEARCH to develop and test ways of using biological, chemical and radioactive materials in intelligence operations, and also to develop and test drugs that are able to produce predictable changes in human behavior and physiology (Goliszek).

Dr. Henry Beecher writes, "The well-being, the health, even the actual or potential life of all human beings, born or unborn, depend upon the continuing experimentation in man. Proceed it must; proceed it will. 'The proper study of mankind is man,'" in his "exposé" on human medical experimentation Research and the Individual ("Human Experimentation: Before the Nazi Era and After").

U.S. Army scientists drop light bulbs filled with Bacillus subtilis through ventilation gates and into the New York City subway system, exposing more than one million civilians to the bacteria (Goliszek).

The National Commission for the Protection of Research Subjects issues its Policies for the Protection of Human Subjects, which eventually creates what we now know as institutional review boards (IRBs) (Sharav).
(1967)
Continuing on his Dow Chemical Company-sponsored dioxin study without the company's knowledge or consent, University of Pennsylvania Professor Albert Kligman increases the dosage of dioxin he applies to 10 prisoners' skin to 7,500 micrograms, 468 times the dosage Dow official Gerald K. Rowe had authorized him to administer. As a result, the prisoners experience acne lesions that develop into inflammatory pustules and papules (Kaye).

The CIA places a chemical in the drinking water supply of the FDA headquarters in Washington, D.C. to see whether it is possible to spike drinking water with LSD and other substances (Cockburn and St. Clair, eds.).

In a study published in the Journal of Clinical Investigation, researchers inject pregnant women with radioactive cortisol to see if the radioactive material will cross the placentas and affect the fetuses (Goliszek).

The U.S. Army pays Professor Kligman to apply skin-blistering chemicals to Holmesburg Prison inmates' faces and backs, so as to, in Professor Kligman's words, "learn how the skin protects itself against chronic assault from toxic chemicals, the so-called hardening process," information which would have both offensive and defensive applications for the U.S. military (Kaye).

The CIA and Edgewood Arsenal Research Laboratories begin an extensive program for developing drugs that can influence human behavior. This program includes Project OFTEN -- which studies the toxicology, transmission and behavioral effects of drugs in animal and human subjects -- and Project CHICKWIT, which gathers European and Asian drug development information (Goliszek).

Professor Kligman develops Retin-A as an acne cream (and eventually a wrinkle cream), turning him into a multi-millionaire (Kaye).

Researchers paralyze 64 prison inmates in California with a neuromuscular compound called succinylcholine, which produces suppressed breathing that feels similar to drowning. When five prisoners refuse to participate in the medical experiment, the prison's special treatment board gives researchers permission to inject the prisoners with the drug against their will (Greger).
(1968)
Planned Parenthood of San Antonio and South Central Texas and the Southwest Foundation for Research and Education begin an oral contraceptive study on 70 poverty-stricken Mexican-American women, giving only half the oral contraceptives they think they are receiving and the other half a placebo. When the results of this study are released a few years later, it stirs tremendous controversy among Mexican-Americans (Sharav, Sauter).
(1969)
President Nixon ends the United States' offensive biowarfare program, including human experimentation done at Fort Detrick. By this time, tens of thousands of civilians and members of the U.S. armed forces have wittingly and unwittingly acted as participants in experiments involving exposure to dangerous biological agents (Goliszek).

The U.S. military conducts DTC Test 69-12, which is an open-air test of VX and sarin nerve agents at the Army's Edgewood Arsenal in Maryland, likely exposing military personnel (Goliszek, Martin).

Experimental drugs are tested on mentally disabled children in Milledgeville, Ga., without any institutional approval whatsoever (Sharav).

Dr. Donald MacArthur, the U.S. Department of Defense's Deputy Director for Research and Technology, requests $10 million from Congress to develop a synthetic biological agent that would be resistant "to the immunological and therapeutic processes upon which we depend to maintain our relative freedom from infectious disease" (Cockburn and St. Clair, eds.).

Judge Sam Steinfield's dissent in Strunk v. Strunk, 445 S.W.2d 145 marks the first time a judge has ever suggested that the Nuremberg Code be applied in American court cases (Sharav).
(1970)
A year after his request, under H.R. 15090, Dr. MacArthur receives funding to begin CIA-supervised mycoplasma research with Fort Detrick's Special Operations Division and hopefully create a synthetic immunosuppressive agent. Some experts believe that this research may have inadvertently created HIV, the virus that causes AIDS (Goliszek).

Under order from the National Institutes of Health (NIH), which also sponsored the Tuskegee Experiment, the free childcare program at Johns Hopkins University collects blood samples from 7,000 African-American youth, telling their parents that they are checking for anemia but actually checking for an extra Y chromosome (XYY), believed to be a biological predisposition to crime. The program director, Digamber Borganokar, does this experiment without Johns Hopkins University's permission (Greger, Merritte, et al.).
(1971)
President Nixon converts Fort Detrick from an offensive biowarfare lab to the Frederick Cancer Research and Development Center, now known as the National Cancer Institute at Frederick. In addition to cancer research, scientists study virology, immunology and retrovirology (including HIV) there. Additionally, the site is home to the U.S. Army Medical Research Institute, which researches drugs, vaccines and countermeasures for biological warfare, so the former Fort Detrick does not move far away from its biowarfare past (Goliszek).

Stanford University conducts the Stanford Prison Experiment on a group of college students in order to learn the psychology of prison life. Some students are given the role as prison guards, while the others are given the role of prisoners. After only six days, the proposed two-week study has to end because of its psychological effects on the participants. The "guards" had begun to act sadistic, while the "prisoners" started to show signs of depression and severe psychological stress (University of New Hampshire).

An article entitled "Viral Infections in Man Associated with Acquired Immunological Deficiency States" appears in Federation Proceedings. Dr. MacArthur and Fort Detrick's Special Operations Division have, at this point, been conducting mycoplasma research to create a synthetic immunosuppressive agent for about one year, again suggesting that this research may have produced HIV (Goliszek).
(1972)
In studies sponsored by the U.S. Air Force, Dr. Amedeo Marrazzi gives LSD to mental patients at the University of Missouri Institute of Psychiatry and the University of Minnesota Hospital to study "ego strength" (Barker).
(1973)
An Ad Hoc Advisory Panel issues its Final Report on the Tuskegee Syphilis Study, writing, "Society can no longer afford to leave the balancing of individual rights against scientific progress to the scientific community" (Sharav).
(1974)
Congress enacts the National Research Act, creating the National Commission for the Protection of Human Subjects of Biomedical and Behavioral Research and finally setting standards for human experimentation on children (Breslow).
(1975)
The Department of Health, Education and Welfare gives the National Institutes of Health's Policies for the Protection of Human Subjects (1966) regulatory status. Title 45, known as "The Common Rule," officially creates institutional review boards (IRBs) (Sharav).
(1977)
The Kennedy Hearing initiates the process toward Executive Order 12333, prohibiting intelligence agencies from experimenting on humans without informed consent (Merritte, et al.).

The U.S. government issues an official apology and $400,000 to Jeanne Connell, the sole survivor from Col. Warren's now-infamous plutonium injections at Strong Memorial Hospital, and the families of the other human test subjects (Burton Report).

The National Urban League holds its National Conference on Human Experimentation, stating, "We don't want to kill science but we don't want science to kill, mangle and abuse us" (Sharav).
(1978)
The CDC begins experimental hepatitis B vaccine trials in New York. Its ads for research subjects specifically ask for promiscuous homosexual men. Professor Wolf Szmuness of the Columbia University School of Public Health had made the vaccine's infective serum from the pooled blood serum of hepatitis-infected homosexuals and then developed it in chimpanzees, the only animal susceptible to hepatitis B, leading to the theory that HIV originated in chimpanzees before being transferred over to humans via this vaccine. A few months after 1,083 homosexual men receive the vaccine, New York physicians begin noticing cases of Kaposi's sarcoma, Mycoplasma penetrans and a new strain of herpes virus among New York's homosexual community -- diseases not usually seen among young, American men, but that would later be known as common opportunistic diseases associated with AIDS (Goliszek).
(1979)
The National Commission for the Protection of Human Subjects of Biomedical and Behavioral Research releases the Belmont Report, which establishes the foundations for research experimentation on humans. The Belmont Report mandates that researchers follow three basic principles: 1. Respect the subjects as autonomous persons and protect those with limited ability for independence (such as children), 2. Do no harm, 3. Choose test subjects justly -- being sure not to target certain groups because of they are easily accessible or easily manipulated, rather than for reasons directly related to the tests (Berdon).
(1980)
A study reveals a high incidence of leukemia among the 18,000 military personnel who participated in 1957's Operation Plumbbob (a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Plumbbob">"Operation Plumbob").

According to blood samples tested years later for HIV, 20 percent of all New York homosexual men who participated in the 1978 hepatitis B vaccine experiment are HIV-positive by this point (Goliszek).

American doctors give experimental hormone shots to hundreds of Haitian men confined to detention camps in Miami and Puerto Rico, causing the men to develop a condition known as gynecomastia, in which men develop full-sized breasts (Cockburn and St. Clair, eds.).

The CDC continues its 1978 hepatitis B vaccine experiment in Los Angeles, San Francisco, Chicago, St. Louis and Denver, recruiting over 7,000 homosexual men in San Francisco alone (Goliszek).

The FDA prohibits the use of prison inmates in pharmaceutical drug trials, leading to the advent of the experimental drug testing centers industry (Sharav).

The first AIDS case appears in San Francisco (Goliszek).
(1981)
(1981 - 1993) The Seattle-based Genetic Systems Corporation begins an ongoing medical experiment called Protocol No. 126, in which cancer patients at the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center in Seattle are given bone marrow transplants that contain eight experimental proteins made by Genetic Systems, rather than standard bone marrow transplants; 19 human subjects die from complications directly related to the experimental treatment (Goliszek).

A deep diving experiment at Duke University causes test subject Leonard Whitlock to suffer permanent brain damage (Sharav).

The CDC acknowledges that a disease known as AIDS exists and confirms 26 cases of the disease -- all in previously healthy homosexuals living in New York, San Francisco and Los Angeles -- again supporting the speculation that AIDS originated from the hepatitis B experiments from 1978 and 1980 (Goliszek).
(1982)
Thirty percent of the test subjects used in the CDC's hepatitis B vaccine experiment are HIV-positive by this point (Goliszek).
(1984)
SFBC Phase I research clinic founded in Miami, Fla. By 2005, it would become the largest experimental drug testing center in North America with centers in Miami and Montreal, running Phase I to Phase IV clinical trials (Drug Development-Technology.com).
(1985)
A former U.S. Army sergeant tries to sue the Army for using drugs on him in without his consent or even his knowledge in United States v. Stanley, 483 U.S. 669. Justice Antonin Scalia writes the decision, clearing the U.S. military from any liability in past, present or future medical experiments without informed consent (Merritte, et al..
(1987)
Philadelphia resident Doris Jackson discovers that researchers have removed her son's brain post mortem for medical study. She later learns that the state of Pennsylvania has a doctrine of "implied consent," meaning that unless a patient signs a document stating otherwise, consent for organ removal is automatically implied (Merritte, et al.).
(1988)
The U.S. Justice Department pays nine Canadian survivors of the CIA and Dr. Cameron's "psychic driving" experiments (1957 - 1964) $750,000 in out-of-court settlements, to avoid any further investigations into MKULTRA (Goliszek).

(1988 - 2001) The New York City Administration for Children's Services begins allowing foster care children living in about two dozen children's homes to be used in National Institutes of Health-sponsored (NIH) experimental AIDS drug trials. These children -- totaling 465 by the program's end -- experience serious side effects, including inability to walk, diarrhea, vomiting, swollen joints and cramps. Children's home employees are unaware that they are giving the HIV-infected children experimental drugs, rather than standard AIDS treatments (New York City ACS, Doran).
(1990)
The United States sends 1.7 million members of the armed forces, 22 percent of whom are African-American, to the Persian Gulf for the Gulf War ("Desert Storm"). More than 400,000 of these soldiers are ordered to take an experimental nerve agent medication called pyridostigmine, which is later believed to be the cause of Gulf War Syndrome -- symptoms ranging from skin disorders, neurological disorders, incontinence, uncontrollable drooling and vision problems -- affecting Gulf War veterans (Goliszek; Merritte, et al.).

The CDC and Kaiser Pharmaceuticals of Southern California inject 1,500 six-month-old black and Hispanic babies in Los Angeles with an "experimental" measles vaccine that had never been licensed for use in the United States. Adding to the risk, children less than a year old may not have an adequate amount of myelin around their nerves, possibly resulting in impaired neural development because of the vaccine. The CDC later admits that parents were never informed that the vaccine being injected into their children was experimental (Goliszek).

The FDA allows the U.S. Department of Defense to waive the Nuremberg Code and use unapproved drugs and vaccines in Operation Desert Shield (Sharav).
(1991)
In the May 27 issue of the Los Angeles Times, former U.S. Navy radio operator Richard Jenkins writes that he suffers from leukemia, chronic fatigue and kidney and liver disease as a result of the radiation exposure he received in 1958's Operation Hardtack (Goliszek).

While participating in a UCLA study that withdraws schizophrenics off of their medications, Tony LaMadrid commits suicide (Sharav).
(1992)
Columbia University's New York State Psychiatric Institute and the Mount Sinai School of Medicine give 100 males -- mostly African-American and Hispanic, all between the ages of six and 10 and all the younger brothers of juvenile delinquents -- 10 milligrams of fenfluramine (fen-fen) per kilogram of body weight in order to test the theory that low serotonin levels are linked to violent or aggressive behavior. Parents of the participants received $125 each, including a $25 Toys 'R' Us gift certificate (Goliszek).
(1993)
Researchers at the West Haven VA in Connecticut give 27 schizophrenics -- 12 inpatients and 15 functioning volunteers -- a chemical called MCPP that significantly increases their psychotic symptoms and, as researchers note, negatively affects the test subjects on a long-term basis ("Testimony of Adil E. Shamoo, Ph.D.").
(1994)
In a double-blind experiment at New York VA Hospital, researchers take 23 schizophrenic inpatients off of their medications for a median of 30 days. They then give 17 of them 0.5 mg/kg amphetamine and six a placebo as a control, following up with PET scans at Brookhaven Laboratories. According to the researchers, the purpose of the experiment was "to specifically evaluate metabolic effects in subjects with varying degrees of amphetamine-induced psychotic exacerbation" ("Testimony of Adil E. Shamoo, Ph.D.").

Albuquerque Tribune reporter Eileen Welsome receives a Pulitzer Prize for her investigative reporting into Col. Warren's plutonium experiments on patients at Strong Memorial Hospital in 1945 (Burton Report).

In a federally funded experiment at New York VA Medical Center, researchers give schizophrenic veterans amphetamine, even though central nervous system stimulants worsen psychotic symptoms in 40 percent of schizophrenics ("Testimony of Adil E. Shamoo, Ph.D.").

Researchers at Bronx VA Medical Center recruit 28 schizophrenic veterans who are functioning in society and give them L-dopa in order to deliberately induce psychotic relapse ("Testimony of Adil E. Shamoo, Ph.D.").

President Clinton appoints the Advisory Commission on Human Radiation Experiments (ACHRE), which finally reveals the horrific experiments conducted during the Cold War era in its ACHRE Report.
(1995)
A 19-year-old University of Rochester student named Nicole Wan dies from participating in an MIT-sponsored experiment that tests airborne pollutant chemicals on humans. The experiment pays $150 to human test subjects (Sharav).

In the Mar. 15 President's Advisory Committee on Human Radiation Experiments (ACHRE), former human subjects, including those who were used in experiments as children, give sworn testimonies stating that they were subjected to radiation experiments and/or brainwashed, hypnotized, drugged, psychologically tortured, threatened and even raped during CIA experiments. These sworn statements include:

Christina DeNicola's statement that, in Tucson, Ariz., from 1966 to 1976, "Dr. B" performed mind control experiments using drugs, post-hypnotic injection and drama, and irradiation experiments on her neck, throat, chest and uterus. She was only four years old when the experiments started.
Claudia Mullen's testimony that Dr. Sidney Gottlieb (of MKULTRA fame) used chemicals, radiation, hypnosis, drugs, isolation in tubs of water, sleep deprivation, electric shock, brainwashing and emotional, sexual and verbal abuse as part of mind control experiments that had the ultimate objective of turning her, who was only a child at the time, into the "perfect spy." She tells the advisory committee that researchers justified this abuse by telling her that she was serving her country "in their bold effort to fight Communism."
Suzanne Starr's statement that "a physician, who was retired from the military, got children from the mountains

Ivor, you are evading the questions I am asking with smokescreens.

As I understand it:

-You want CAM to get a cut of the 10% or so of GDP that goes towards publicly funded health care

-Only treatments that are proven to be effective will be funded

-Which treatments are deemed effective will be on the basis of public vote, with the public being given unbiased information

-This information cannot include medical ‘numerology’

A few keys points that you haven’t addressed:

-Who will provide the public with unbiased information? (asked by me, not answered)

-How exactly are you going to prove effectiveness without using mathematics? (asked by me, not answered)

-These decisions will affect hundreds of thousands. Will you rely on anecdotal evidence? (asked by me, not answered)

I think your idea is utterly unworkable. You clearly have a talent for finding the negatives in minute detail in the current health system, whether real or imagined, but you fail to see that many of the elements you rail against (bias, lack of evidence, statistics) would be an inescapable part of your system.

Good luck with your armchair health reform Ivor.

Neo .. I do not believe that one needs scientific numerology to determine the effectiveness of a modality or substance .. and as has been pointed out in Plos medicine, the pitifully small amount of variables that medical science includes in its mumbo jumbo is totally incapable of producing unbiased results ..this surely must be obvious to you .. just look at all the fake trials and determinations of efficacy that subsequently turned out to be false but in the meantime Kaaching Kaaching until the lies just like the bodies can no longer be covered up and the poisons are removed from the market.

Courts of law with unbiased judges would sort out the true from the false and even on anecdotal evidence which is one of their specialties. And of course they do make mistakes but not as many as your people make and when medicine or surgery make them, they usually end up with a maiming or death .. or even smashed up lungs.

I do believe all of those questions that you have asked have been answered previously but you chose to ignore them .. Judges will sort out the true from the false.

These decisions will affect hundreds of thousands. At last some truth instead of lame excuses from you.

Your stuff .. How exactly are you going to prove effectiveness without using mathematics? .. by past and present results .. it quite simple .. like did it work for you ..

You really a a smart snide .. I lay out what I think is going to happen and you want me to be an expert in all of those disciplines that it will take to bring the matter to a successful conclusion.

Nahh you are just a fraud because you have no experience of the modalities that you and garry deride and seek to make me look a fool over. Whereas your real agenda slipped out even though you were trying to be careful not to let it show ..

Your statement .. “These decisions will affect hundreds of thousands”.

Of course it will and to sort out the mess that your lot have made will involve a lot of work to ease these people through what has been done to them .. the politicians will be anxious to ensure that none of the odoriferous stuff sticks to them .. sacrificial chickens and lamb chops will be the order of the day, and just like tobacco science down the tubes you go ..

Many people are now aware that much of the pestilence afflicting the human race is man made .. and comes out of a lab .. just like Aids and Ebola, Morgellens plus the various chicken and pork flu,s
Your lot have even been playing around with the first world war Spanish flu.. not to mention that great big list of known medical human experiments that I posted.

It not my health reform Neo .. it many many hundreds of thousands who are crying out for it .. I am just a town cryer and my job as I understand it is to spread the word. I quite accept that I will probably be dead before it gets seriously underway .. but I am satisfied that then ground is being prepared.

I too wish you luck in your chosen profession .. a bit of advice .. get the student loan paid off .. pay the credit card off and pay the mortgage off .. you may then feel that gripping and ripping feeling around your scrotum eases somewhat.

But sooner or later Medical Science will have to face up to what it has done .. and done in a very cold blooded manner .. its a pathology of some kind .. there is no room left under the carpet for any more bodies .. so I guess that means ‘Accountability’.

“Nahh you are just a fraud because you have no experience of the modalities that you and garry deride and seek to make me look a fool ”
i do not have to be bitten by a dog to know it will hurt.
I do not have to cut the head off an Emu to know it will die.
I don’t have to put a diagonal brace on a gate to know it will make it stronger.
I do not have to try your magic water ( homeopathy) to know it is a crock of shit.

I do not seek to make Ivor look a fool. His own posts do a perfectly adequate job of that.

Now tell us Ivor, how is it that your raw food anecdote has more validity than my raw food anecdote. Please show all your working. We will be giving you a grade on your answer.

“Your stuff .. How exactly are you going to prove effectiveness without using mathematics? .. by past and present results .. it quite simple .. like did it work for you ..”
Looks like this method is not going to work very well regarding raw food v cancer judging by our two conflicting anecdotes. There is also the vast majority of healthy vaccinated people whose pro vaccine anecdotes will ensure that your method will decide in favor of vaccination – is that what you really want?

BTW, Ivor mentioned razors in an earlier post. I wonder if he shaves his face regularly? Interesting to learn if and why he performs this unhealthy practises.

Judges are to decide?
They have already decided that vacination does not cause autism and discredited your guru Wakefield so you maight have something there.
Ha ha ha
As Jeremy Clarkson says, ” Loser!”

Garry what a super dooper nitwit you are .. and if you are the product of NZ Science teaching then the pedagogues have failed. Dr Wakefield will be shearing Godlee and Deere in a real court in the not too distant future, nobody but nobody expect anything from medical kangaroo courts except a whitewash.

Here stupid have a glass of water.

Water is means, medium, and message
Dr. Mae-Wan Ho

Quantum jazz is possible because organisms are liquid crystalline; the 70 percent by weight of water making up the tissues and cells are an integral, necessary part of the liquid crystalline matrix that enables rapid intercommunication to take place, whereby the organism can function as a coordinated whole.

New research described in the latest edition of my book [14] and [19] ( Water Electric and other articles in the series, SiS 43) show how this special biological water in tissues and cells provide the means, medium and message for intercommunication.

The liquid crystalline water is the ultimate source of protons (H + ) and electrons (e – ), positive and negative charges that zap through cellular compartments, between cells and tissues and the most distant parts of the body, energizing the organism, instantaneously coordinating its metabolism, growth, and other vital functions.

The liquid crystalline water matrix pervades the entire organism from the extracellular connective tissues to the interior of every single cell. Special membrane proteins have water-filled channels that cross the cell membrane, acting as ‘proton wires’ to transport protons in and out of the cell [20] ( Positive Electricity Zaps Through Water Chains , SiS 28).. This same matrix transmits the heart’s large pulsating electromagnetic field throughout the body, including the brain, which paces and intercommunicates with the myriad local rhythms [18]. Within the cell, it transmits the much higher frequency electromagnetic waves emitted by molecules that depend on specific frequencies to recognize one another and coordinate their actions even at a distance [21] ( The Real Bioinformatics Revolution , SiS 33).

The liquid crystalline matrix converts pressure and heat into electricity (and vice versa ), thereby coordinating the perfect movements of both voluntary and involuntary muscles that enable some people to be concert pianists, Olympic athletes, or Kung Fu masters. The thermoelectric and piezoelectric effects, typical of liquid crystals, may underlie the therapeutic effects of massage and other ‘subtle energy medicine’ [22] possibly by restoring coherence to the body, as well as a balance of positive and negative charges.

Special water channels in confined spaces aligned by collagen fibres have the potential to serve as superconducting proton cables, being really many proton wires wound together [23] ( Collagen Water Structure Revealed , SiS 32), and may well correspond to the acupuncture meridians of traditional Chinese medicine, as David Knight and I suggested in 1998 [24] ( Liquid Crystalline Meridians ). The anatomical correlates of acupuncture meridians remain unknown to this day [25] ( Acupuncture, Coherent Energy and Liquid Crystalline Meridians , ISIS lecture).

Intriguingly, water next to charged hydrophilic surfaces, which are everywhere within the organism, not only forms ordered liquid crystalline layers, but can also be charged up by light, infrared light at 3 100 nm being the most effective in expanding the ordered layers that become charged up like a battery [19]. This finding reinforces the emerging picture that water is the lead player in bioenergetics [26] ( Water and Fire series, SiS 43). As Nobel Laureate Albert Szent-Gyorgyi remarked, water is “the mother of all life” [27].

The rest of this Essay here .. http://www.i-sis.org.uk/Medicine_in_a_New_Key.php

Neo …

ISIS Press Release 08/07/09
Medicine in a New Key
Conventional medicine is dying ultimately because it is based on an obsolete dominant mechanistic model that does not recognize the coherence of the organism
Dr. Mae-Wan Ho explores how a science of the organism could underpin a new organic medicine that would best serve the nation.

A fully referenced version of this article is posted on ISIS members’ website. Details here

An electronic version of the full report can be downloaded from the ISIS online store. Download Now

Please circulate widely and repost, but you must give the URL of the original and preserve all the links back to articles on our website
The Rainbow And The Worm. The Physics of Organisms. By Dr. Mae-Wan Ho

Death of medicine
Dr. Mae-Wan Ho
Demand for healthcare has put national health services under increasingly severe strain as the rise in cost of medicine is escalating. The situation is worst in countries without national health that depend on health insurance. In the United States , employer-sponsored health insurance premiums more than doubled between 1996 and 2006, 4 times the increase in wage [1]; and more and more people find themselves uninsured.

The US spent $2.2 trillion on healthcare in 2007; averaging $7 421 per person, 16.2 percent of GDP, and nearly twice the average of other developed nations. Yet this most advanced and costly medical system in the world is the leading cause of death and injury to its citizens. Each year, some 2.2 million suffer from adverse drug reaction, 7.5 million undergo unnecessary medical and surgical procedures, and 8.9 million are unnecessarily hospitalised. In 2001, the medical system killed 783 936, when 699 697 died from heart disease and 553 251 from cancer [2].

The healthcare system is failing the world over [3, 4] ( The Depressing Side of Medical Science , Why the Planet is Sick , SiS 39).

Health journalist and author Nick Regush summed it up starkly [5]: “Medicine as we know it, is dying…The disease is caused by conflict of interest, tainted research, greed for big bucks, pretentious doctors and scientists, lying, cheating, invasion by the morally bankrupt marketing automatons of the drug industry, derelict politicians and federal and state regulators….As a journalist, it has become very plain to see how little anything the medical Establishment does these days can be trusted or taken at face value. Press conferences, journal articles, symposia – all are geared to spike and obfuscate the truth, to hide red flags from the public and to bulk up the shares of investors in the companies that are promoting the science and the researchers.”

http://www.i-sis.org.uk/Medicine_in_a_New_Key.php

Ivor wants medical matters decided by popular opinion mediated by judges.

Ivor, why restrict this brilliant system to medical matters? Why not use it to decide such things as the validity of evolution for example?
Slight problem here though … Do we go with the decisions of judges in Sweden or Norway or Iceland or Botswana or Cuba or New Zealand or Japan or Texas? Or will the truth emerge from averaging across all societies ?

Perhaps popular opinion and judges could also be used to decide the great question facing astrophysics today? What is the true explanation for the measured gravitational effects currently explained by dark matter? And while they are about it perhaps Ivor’s learned gentlemen can decide why the Universe appears to be expanding at an increased rate.

Jeez, Ivor! Even an uneducated slum rat must be able to see the problems in such a system.

Oh now I see why you do not want me to contaminate your Gene pool .. Slum Rat eh?

Well I could not care how its going to get sorted out and given the evidence of the lies, the cheating and even outright murder maybe judges rather than the mob is the best way to go .. Here is another one for you pinhead.

The US Health Care Industry Racket
By Ralph Nader

February 02, 2012 “Information Clearing House” — Looking at millions of individual bills that makeup the 2.7 trillion dollars of annual health care costs opens a gigantic window on the massive waste, redundancy, profiteering, fraud and sometimes criminal over-billing.

Here is a partial example of what I mean, in the words of Philip M. Boffey, the estimable science writer for the New York Times:

“Why does an appendectomy in Germany cost roughly a quarter what it costs in the United States? ($3,285 compared to $13,123). Or an MRI scan cost less than a third as much, on average, in Canada? ($304 compared to $1,009).”

“Americans continue to spend more on health care than patients anywhere else. In 2009, we spent $7,960 per person, twice as much as France, which is known for providing very good health services. And for all that spending, we get very mixed results–some superb, some average, some inferior–compared with other advanced nations.”

Moreover, France and Germany, Italy, England, Canada, Belgium, Sweden and all other western countries plus Japan and Taiwan cover almost all their citizens, unlike the U.S. where 50,000,000 people are uninsured.

Boffey, who wrote a book on the National Academy of Sciences, (The Brain Bank of America: An Inquiry into the Politics of Science), under our sponsorship in 1975 goes on to cite the comparative price report of the International Federation of Health Plans in 2010. They are stunning! For Britain, Canada, France, Germany and the U.S. respectively, the average cost in dollars for bypass surgery is $13,998, $22,212, $16,325, $27,237 and in the U.S. $59,770. For cataract surgery the bill is $1,299, $927, $3,352, N.A. and in the U.S. $14,764.

Boffey adds other explanatory factors. These include higher administrative costs to deal with insurance paperwork, higher insurance company profits and executive compensation and less developed electronic health records leading to costly errors.

Except for Germany there are somewhat longer waiting times for some patients to see a specialist in these countries. But in the U.S. seeing specialists is often prohibitively expensive, and if you cannot afford such services, that is the longest waiting time of all.

A recent commentary in the Mayo Clinic Proceedings last August by Charles. W. Slack and Warner V. Slack, MD suggests another compelling comparison–between outcomes in different states in the U.S. They ask “why, for example, do Mississippi, Louisiana, and Georgia have such a high rate of mortality amenable to health care when compared with Idaho, Oregon and Washington.” Wide differences between states and counties have been documented regarding the cost of identical operations, frequency of operations such as cesarean sections or hysterectomies and other surgical disparities studied under controlled variables.

Health care bills come with hefty levels of fraud. From the historic study twenty years ago by the then General Accounting Office of the Congress to the present estimates by the nation’s leading expert in this field, Professor Malcolm Sparrow at Harvard University, fully ten percent of all health care expenditures are the result of computerized billing fraud and abuse. That will be $270 billion this year.

Dr. Sparrow, an applied mathematician, says it could be higher if the federal government would simply do a more detailed study. He adds that the enforcement budget should be one percent of the estimable volume of fraud. In actual practice, the enforcement budget is less than one/tenth of one percent, even though every dollar of enforcement brings in at least seventeen dollars back. (See Dr. Sparrow’s website: http://www.hks.harvard.edu/fs/msparrow/ )

Obviously the corporate fraud lobby is stronger than the taxpayer/consumer lobby in Washington, D.C. But why the health insurance companies, a formidable force in their own right when it comes to protecting its turf against single payer or full Medicare insurance (see singlepayeraction.org) do not do more to stop fraudulent billing practices, is a puzzle.

All in all, the health care industry is replete with rackets that neither honest practitioners or regulators find worrisome enough to effectively challenge. The perverse economic incentives in this industry range from third party payments to third party procedures. Add paid-off members of Congress who starve enforcement budgets and the enormous profits that come from that tired triad “waste, fraud and abuse” and you have a massive problem needing a massive solution.

So, voters, why not start challenging all candidates for elective office to make this vast daily heist a front burner campaign issue.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article30423.htm

Autism is irrevocably linked to the MMR vaccine .. basically vaccination is the biggest fraud of all of the other medical frauds.

Talking of more medical frauds howz about this one ..

Early use of antibiotics in the 1960s may have given birth to one of the most common strains of MRSA, a study has found.
Richard Alleyne

By Richard Alleyne, Science Correspondent

7:30AM GMT 22 Jan 2010

A new genetic method of tracking infection suggests that the superbug emerged five decades ago in Europe, just as antibiotics were being widely introduced for the first time.

Scientists used DNA-mapping technology to compare the genetic relatedness of bugs isolated from individual patients.

By identifying letter changes springing up in the bacteria’s genetic code, they were able to track MRSA transmission between continents and from patient-to-patient within a single hospital.

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Anorexic doctor weighed less than 4 stone when she died
Dr Melanie Spooner weighed less than four stone when she died from crippling anorexia which ‘dominated her life’, an inquest heard.
Melanie Spooner, who was awarded a first from Cambridge University,
Melanie Spooner, who was awarded a first from Cambridge University,

3:30PM GMT 30 Jan 2012

The 30 year-old had to be put on long-term sick leave after fellow medics became alarmed at her dangerously low weight.

The paediatrician, a graduate of Cambridge University, had battled the eating disorder since the age of 13 and would rarely eat in public, Southwark Coroner’s Court heard.

She was found dead by her parents in her southeast London flat on the afternoon of September 25 last year, after suffering heart failure brought on by her low weight.

Dr Clare Gerada, who examined Dr Spooner after she was put on sick leave in October 2010, told the inquest her prognosis had been poor.

“She hadn’t had a great deal of psychological input – she didn’t want to be treated like a child,’ she said.

“I didn’t weigh her because she didn’t want to be weighed, and she didn’t want to go into psychological issues in consultation.

“But she was very stable – she reported on the last occasion she had been able to eat in public for the first time in many years, and was enjoying the food.

“The only concern we had was it was difficult for Melanie to come and see us, and part of the agreement of her return to work programme was that she did come to see us.

“She was clearly upset and was concerned about other issues in her life, for example she wasn’t working and had very little money, and that concerned her.”

Dr Spooner, who was born in Reading, had worked at the Evelina Children’s Hospital in Southwark, south London, after transferring from University Hospital, Lewisham.

She had last been heard from on September 23 last year, when her mother sent her a text message to ask how she was coping with a cold, and she replied to say she was “great”.

Her parents drove to her two-bedroom flat in Agyll Road, Woolwich, southeast London, on the afternoon of September 25 when they became worried they were unable to contact her.

After finding the front door locked with a chain, they forced open the door with a screwdriver before discovering her lifeless body slumped on the floor.

In a note found in the kitchen, Dr Spooner expressed messages of love to her family, the court heard.

She was pronounced dead at 3.52pm.

A post-mortem report later found she had weighed just three stone 10lbs, but was unable to find a medical cause for her heart stopping.

“Sudden cardiac deaths are recognised in anorexia, so I thnk that’s the most likely cause of her death,” said pathologist Dr Peter Jerreat.

Giving evidence, her father, Robert Spooner, said Dr Spooner had a very healthy childhood but had struggled with anorexia throughout her teenage years.

“At the age of about 18 she went to university, so there was potential to slip thereafter,” he said.

“She did seek help.”

A report from her GP surgery said she had been prescribed citalopram, an anti-depressant, shortly before her death.

Delivering her verdict, Coroner Adela Williams said Ms Spooner had “no underlying medical, physical problems which we know of”.

She added: “Melanie was troubled ever since early adolescence by a devastating mental health problem, and that caused her to suffer severe weight loss and abnormal eating patterns,” she said.

“My own impression from the evidence I’ve heard is that it dominated her life.

“She was clearly somebody of substantial talent, and I understand she was a talented pediatrician.

“Clearly, in the context of her low weight, her employers became concerned about her.

“Her weight, while very low indeed, did not further decrease, she was hoping to return to work, and had thoughts of going to work in Australia.

“It is clear from the evidence I have heard that she had experienced from lowness in her mood, and her parents became aware of this shortly before she died.

“There was a letter which could be thought of as consistent with her depression, that she had intended not to live.

“In the light of other evidence, I think that can be wholly disregarded, and I do disregard it.

“The post-mortem found no physical evidence to account for her death, and it must be that her death was attributable to a recognised complication of anorexia nervosa, namely a cardiac arrhythmia.”

Verdict: natural causes.

=========================================================

The technique, pioneered by scientists at the Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute in Hinxton, Cambridgeshire, is expected to help improve infection control strategies aimed at keeping superbugs at bay.

The scientists focused on 63 samples of MRSA – methicillin resistant staphylococcus aureus – from a particular lineage of the bacterium called ST239.
Related Articles

Simple blood test ‘could cut the number of antibiotics given in hospitals’
23 Jan 2010

Hospitals told to come clean about their infection rates
02 Oct 2010

Cockroaches could help combat MRSA and E.coli
04 Sep 2010

The strain accounts for a large proportion of MRSA outbreaks in hospitals around the world.

Two thirds of the samples came from hospitals in North and South America, Europe, Australia and Asia collected over a period of more than 20 years between 1982 and 2003.

The remainder came from patients at a single hospital in Thailand over a period of seven months.

Analysis of the samples yielded a “family tree” showing how the strain had spread around the world and branched into clusters of sub-strains.

The European samples were concentrated around the base of the evolutionary tree. Working backwards, the scientists established that the strain probably emerged in Europe in the 1960s.

The finding lends support to the theory that the introduction of widespread antibiotic use in the 1960s may have spawned MRSA.

Natural selection would have favoured resistant strains that could survive the antibiotic onslaught.

Another discovery was that one MRSA outbreak in a London hospital intensive care unit was probably due to a bacterial strain imported from south-east Asia – possibly brought in by a single infected patient.

The research is published in the journal Science.

Dr Stephen Bentley, one of the Sanger Institute scientists, said: “Telling the difference between isolates within one species is fundamentally important in the development of public health strategies. It allows researchers and public health officials to see how infections are spread – from person-to-person, from hospital-to-hospital, from country-to-country.”

The success of the new technique relies on comparing whole genomes – or blueprints of the genetic code – rather than small sections of DNA.

It can equally be applied to other kinds of bacteria that present a public health menace, such as Clostridium difficile.

Dr Sharon Peacock, co-author from Cambridge University, said: “This new method has allowed us to gain insights into fundamental processes of evolution in S. aureus, one of the most important bacterial pathogens in healthcare in the world.

“We are now able to discriminate between one strain and another, even where they are very closely related. Our research should inform global surveillance strategies to track the spread of MRSA.

“The implications for public health are clear: this technology represents the potential to trace transmission pathways of MRSA more definitively so that interventions or treatments can be targeted with precision and according to need.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/7045108/Widespread-antibiotic-use-in-1960s-sparked-MRSA.html

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indigestion drugs taken by millions linked to hip fractures
Common indigestion drugs taken by millions of people may increase the risk of a hip fracture by a third, a study has found.
Indigestion drugs taken by millions linked to hip fractures
The longer the women took the drugs, the higher the risk of a fracture Photo: ALAMY
Rebecca Smith

By Rebecca Smith, Medical Editor

6:50AM GMT 01 Feb 2012

Comments18 Comments

Post-menopausal women who take drugs known as proton pump inhibitors are around 35 per cent per cent more likely to suffer a broken hip, research has suggested.

Millions of people take the drugs for heartburn, acid reflux, or peptic ulcers.

The longer the women took the drugs, the higher the risk of a fracture, as the research shows those taking them for six to eight years were 50 per cent more likely to suffer a broken hip.

The most commonly used were omeprazole, which can be bought over the counter, and lansoprazole.

The study provides ‘compelling evidence’ of a ‘significant association’ between proton pump inhibitors and hip fractures, the researchers said.
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11 May 2010

Careful consideration should be given to prescribing the drugs for long-term use, they said.

The drugs are thought to interfere with the body’s absorption of calcium which is vital for strong bones.

American drugs regulators issued a warning about long-term use of proton pump inhibitors and hip fractures last year but said more data was needed to establish the risk.

Now researchers, studying 80,000 American nurses, found that for every 2,000 post-menopausal women taking the drugs for a year, there would be more than four fractures compared with three in 2,000 women not taking them.

The study, published in the British Medical Journal, showed the risk of hip fracture among women who regularly used PPIs for at least two years was 35 per cent higher.

A longer use of PPIs was linked with an increasing risk.

The finding held true even when factors likely to influence the result, such as how much exercise women did or their calcium intake, were taken into account.

The risk of hip fracture did, however, return to a normal level two years after patients stopped taking PPIs.

Lead author Hamed Khalili clinical and research fellow, from Massachusetts General Hospital, in America wrote: “Our results, considered in the context of a systematic review of prior studies, provide compelling evidence of a significant association between PPI use and fracture.

“Furthermore, in view of the steadily growing prevalence of regular PPI use, our estimates of an absolute increase in risk of five hip fractures per 10 000 person years associated with PPI use suggest the potential for a high burden of fractures attributable to PPIs across the population.

“These findings further support the recent decision of the Food and Drug Administration to revise labelling of PPIs to incorporate concerns about a possible increase in risk of fractures with these drugs.

“Our data suggest the importance of carefully evaluating the need for long term, continuous use of PPIs, particularly among individuals with a history of smoking.”

Indigestion is a common problem and NHS estimates are that up to 41 per cent of the population will experience it at some point.

Last year there were almost 40m prescriptions dispensed in England for proton pump inhibitors.

Although mild side-effects are already known – including headache, nausea, abdominal pain and skin rashes – the new study found “compelling evidence” that women could be put at risk of fractures after the menopause.

Tobie de Villiers, President of the International Menopause Society, said: “Although the relative risk of hip fracture is significantly raised in users of PPI, when compared to non-users, the absolute risk increase is small.

“This is still important in view of the widespread use of PPIs and the significant burden of disease of hip fractures on affected individuals and the health care system.

“It is worrying that even the use of common anti-fracture drugs do not affect this association.

“The conclusion of this study will need to be considered in clinical practice as it is biologically plausible and supported by other studies.”

Dr John C Stevenson, Consultant Physician and Reader, at the Royal Brompton Hospital, said: “It has been suspected for a number of years that a certain type of indigestion pills, proton pump inhibitors, increase the risk of hip fracture.

“This large study confirms that suspicion. However, the absolute risk is small, with the drugs causing an additional five hip fractures per 10,000 women per year.

“Women should not be put off using proton pump inhibitors if they are needed, but these results provide yet another reason not to smoke.”

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Walk the Talk
Ivan Illich

We can only live the changes we wish to see: we cannot think our way to humanity. Every one of us, every group, must become the model of that which we desire to create. We must break the obsolete social and economic systems that divide the world between the over-privileged and the under-privileged. Each of us, whether government leader or protester, business executive or worker, professor or student, share a common guilt. We have failed…through our lack of responsible awareness…and thus added to suffering around the world.

All of us are cripples—some physically, some mentally, some emotionally. We must, therefore, strive cooperatively to create a new world. There is no time left for destruction, for hatred, for anger. We must build, in hope and joy and celebration.

A must watch 5 minute video ..

THE COMING INSURRECTION

http://www.juneterpstra.com/

Ivor, you write ( cut and pasts) about antibiotic resistant bacteria causing illness.

What?

I thought you didn’t believe in germs causing illness ?

Pleas explain this seeming contradiction.

“Oh now I see why you do not want me to contaminate your Gene pool .. Slum Rat eh?”

No. I don’t want you to pass on the genetic information that made you so gullible when it comes to health scams such as homeopathy, acupuncture, colour therapy, reflexology etc.
Hopefully your kids haven’t inherited your ‘sucker’ genes.

Igor we are still waiting for your response to the following;

You write ( cut and pasts) about antibiotic resistant bacteria causing illness.

What?

I thought you didn’t believe in germs causing illness ?

Pleas explain this seeming contradiction.

Come on Ivor, make up your mind.

Bechamp was right .. the microbe is nothing .. the terrain is everything.
Past Turd on his death bed

The terrain or composition of the soil and its pH, determines what will, or will not grow in it. The micro-cozmyia will respond to the pH if it is Acid and will commence to form .. What it becomes .. depends on many variables.

Now Garry when you arrived here you did so under the aegis of Cuthbert Codswallop the prime ministers shit in Chief, this as his understudy ..

When the PM shouts shit!! it is Cuthberts job to fall on the floor heaving and straining until he shits himself .. with your level of comprehension I strongly feel that you do not know what shit is and are therefore likely to piss yourself .. misunderstanding the Pm,s Command.

Your last Comprehension test scored you three .. this test 0/100. Please go and take an overdose of Alexandrian Senna pods ..

Thanks Awfully.
Ivor
Head Tutor Govt Brainwashing Dept.

P.s. ensure your children, boys and girls get their Gardasil Injections.

Reams believed that diet was the cause and cure of all illness. Now, back to those magical numbers he was given in a moment of divine inspiration. The numbers are the same for everybody, but the diet will differ depending on the individual. The numbers will guide you to the right balance of energy and matter, i.e., perfect health. Reams’s divine inspiration told him that the key to understanding what the body needed could be found by measuring the pH of urine and saliva. The urine pH and saliva pH denote the resistance between the anions and cations, the anions and anions, and the cations and cations. This is a key factor in measuring the total amount of energy in our bodies.

Reams apparently grew up on a farm and was quite knowledgeable of agriculture. His inspiration apparently led him to see a direct analogy between the soil and bodily fluids. One admirer wrote:

Dr. Reams realized that the soil was everything, just like Pasteur said on his dead [sic] bed: “The soil is everything, the germ is nothing.”[It is highly unlikely that Pasteur ever said such a thing. See my note below for the Pasteur story as told by germ-theory denialists.] He discovered that all the variables of the human soil can be determined from a person’s urine plus saliva. His test consisted of 7 parameters (optimal values in between the brackets). Sugar brix (1.5); Urine pH (6.4); Saliva pH (6.4); Conductivity (7); Cell Debris (1); Nitrate Nitrogen (3); Ammonia Nitrogen (3)….

All energy in human bodies is created by the RESISTANCE generated when these oppositely charged ions rotating in opposite directions come together. Think of that, you physics majors! In college physics we have been taught, and generally quite true, that RESISTANCE consumes energy. But in the ionization chemistry of the human body, it is the RESISTANCE between the orbiting anions and the orbiting cations that actually creates energy! If there is no resistance, then no energy is created. In chemistry, the measure of this RESISTANCE is known as “pH.” But pH is neither a qualitative or [sic] a quantitative measurement. It is just resistance.

So, now you’ve been instructed in alternative history, biology, physics, and chemistry. Please resist the urge to laugh at least until you’ve heard a few more Reamsisms.

Cancer, said Reams, is nothing more than dead cells that have stayed in the body too long, have lost their reserve energy, and have become disconnected from the nerve.

All disease is caused by a lack of minerals.

The human body can manufacture vitamin C.

Lemons are not acidic because acids are cations and lemon is an anion.

Not all of Reams’s ideas rank high on the crankometer. For example, many of us who favor science-based medicine might find the following Reamism of some value: Hate is the finest cancer seed in the world.

See also alkaline diet, energy healing, detoxification therapies, faith healing, vibrational medicine, placebo effect, Jon Barron, Joel Wallach, , Hulda Clark, Phillip Day, Gerson therapy, Matthias Rath, Robert O. Young, and Cure Cancer the Natural Way?

__________

note on Pasteur’s alleged deathbed recantation of his life’s work:

There are many places on the Internet that you will find the claim that on his deathbed Louis Pasteur (1822-1895) recanted his life’s work on germ theory. There are two versions of this phony recantation story. You will find both abundantly represented on the Internet. One version says that Pascal said Bernard avait raison. Le germe n’est rien, c’est le terrain qui est tout. The other version says that Pascal said Béchamp avait raison. Le germe n’est rien, c’est le terrain qui est tout. Bernard refers to Claude Bernard (1813-1878) and Béchamp refers to Antoine Béchamp (1816-1908). The version that makes the most sense is the one that says that Béchamp was right. To say that Bernard was right seems odd since Bernard’s theory of the milieu intérieur is not essentially in conflict with germ theory. Béchamp, on the other hand, believed that germs were created in the body as a response to, as one admirer puts it, “what you eat, breathe, drink, and bathe in…. ” Pasteur held that germs exist independently of the body and can cause disease when a person is infected. The idea that the body creates germs is attractive to those who want to believe that nutrition and a healthy lifestyle (often described as using “natural” products, eating “organic” foods, and taking various vitamin and mineral supplements) are sufficient to ward off disease. The idea that germs can exist independently of the body, can invade and infect the body no matter how healthy one is or how much care one takes to live a healthy lifestyle, is supported by decades of scientific evidence. The idea that germs are created by the body in response to poor nutrition has no scientific evidence to support it.

It is important to remember that germ theory does not claim that all disease is caused by germs nor that all germs cause disease. It is also important to note that nutrition is an important part of good health. We know, for example, that some diseases are directly caused by lack of certain nutrients. For example, scurvy is due to a lack of vitamin C, not to “insanitary surroundings, overwork, mental depression and exposure to cold and damp” (Bryson 2010) as some germ-theory denialists would have it.

Pasteur’s alleged deathbed recantation seems to have originated in 1939 with Leon Delhoume’s De Claude Bernard a d’Arsonval. What one researcher was able to discover was that in April 1992 an article titled “To Be Or Not To Be? 150 Years of Hidden Knowledge” by Christopher Bird (1928–1996) was published in Nexxus Magazine. Bird claimed that he had met a woman named Marie Nonclercq who had written a doctoral dissertation in praise of Antoine Béchamp that was published in 1992 as Antoine Béchamp, 1816–1908, The Man and The Scientist, the Originality and Productivity of His Work. Bird claimed that Nonclercq told him that she had read of Pasteur’s deathbed recantation in Delhoume’s book. The story of the alleged recantation was repeated in 1956 in Hans Selye’s book The Stress of Life. The story is now all over the Internet and put forth as if it were part of a discovery of a hidden truth that Pasteur’s family and supporters have conspired to keep from public knowledge.

For more on this desecration of Pasteur’s scientific work by the germ-theory denialists see Pasteur’s Last Words by Peter Bowditch and this video:

further reading

books and articles

“Why Bogus Therapies Often Seem to Work” by Barry L. Beyerstein, Ph.D.

Bausell, R. Barker. 2007. Snake Oil Science: The Truth about Complementary and Alternative Medicine. Oxford University Press.

McCoy, Bob. Quack! : Tales of Medical Fraud from the Museum of Questionable Medical Devices (Santa Monica Press, 2000).

Park, Bob. (2001). Voodoo Science: The Road from Foolishness to Fraud. Oxford University Press.

websites

Infectious Diseases – The Mayo Clinic Learn all about germs: bacteria, viruses, fungi, protozoa, and helminths (worms)

Urine/Saliva pH Testing: Another Gimmick to Sell You Something by Stephen Barrett, M.D.

pro Reams websites

Reams Biological theory of Ionization

Biological Ionization as discovered by Dr. Carey Reams (1904-1987) Article Compiled by Darlene Sartore for An Ever Better World Internet Academy

Reams Biological theory of Ionization Chart

Dr. Carey Reams

http://www.skepdic.com/reams.html

On yer bike Ivor.

think I am anwering Martin. I wouldnt judge by our children not having vaccines. Children whose Grand parents & even better Parents fare better than those who have generations who have been vaccinated. These poisons are passed down generations.
My grandaughters were not affected but their history is clean. Many wont live to see the disasterous effects in future generations. It is criminal.

I think I am anwering Martin. I wouldnt judge by our children not having negative vaccines reactions. Children whose Grand parents & even better, Parents, fare better than those who have had generations who have been vaccinated. These poisons are passed down generations.
My grandaughters were not affected but their history is clean. Many wont live to see the disasterous effects in future generations. It is criminal.

Hello Judy,

as you may gather this thread is basically a mess .. nothing gets discussed in a proper manner because we are assailed by the science first people .. I also am a grand parent so I am sure that we have the future in mind.

I would like to thank you for sharing your insight .. though chilling as it may be. When I read your words I understood many things .. one of them given all of this Gene thing that is currently being pushed is that your words have a validity that I normally do not give to science .. I do follow science in all of its manifestations .. but I laugh as many times as I am impressed, there are not many smarties in that camp.

Experience is the thing .. and once again thank you for the insight that you have given.

Garry,

I obviously stung you. Am I to understand that you forced your children to be vaccinated with Gardasil ??

“your words have a validity that I normally do not give to science…”

Translation – I will believe science when it fits my world view.

Oh shit .. Garry lies straining on the ground ..

Neo you never seem to understand that the reverse is also true. When the current religion rings a bell, then I believe .. but most of the time its a big haw haw haw ..

Judy, can you please present some evidence for the generational damage you claim is caused by vaccination.
So far all I have read from you is an unsupported speculation.

I obviously stung you. Am I to understand that you forced your children to be vaccinated with Gardasil ??

Posted by Ivor | February 5, 2012, 10:33 pm

No and no.

And if that is your best response to the criticism of Bechamp’s nonsense…. well I’m not suprised.

BTW did you know that at least one of your children has secretly had your grandchildren vaccinated?

Garry .. its no secret that your parents had you vaccinated .. that’s why you use a straw in the mouth to type .. coupled with your very obvious lack of intelligence.

And garry your extreme curiosity re the generational damage caused by vaccination .. Hemophilia is an example of generational damage ..

Cuthbert cant eat enough to match his daily output and is seriously wasting .. we will put his demise down to anorexia .. stand by for an urgent call to duty .. Its Neo,s shift on admissions .. he he he haw haw haw ..

N.B. To me .. dont chew toast when the clowns appear .. saves wiping the screen down.

Oh geeze I over looked Peter Bowditch .. it was right at the end of garry warryies post .. I had fallen asleep ..

Peter Bowditch uses an Australian ISP to spread his scurrilous nonsense .. I hear that the legal hounds are closing in on the overpaid pharmageddon schill so we may expect his demise very soon .. I understand that un-closeted arse bandits are not very popular.

Make sure you have clean knickers on Garry Warry .. the call to duty comes soon.

“In my first year of homoeopathic training a general discussion led the lecturer to describe a treatment for burns. He explained that he had been dining with a friend who had burnt herself and had immediately, to his horror, held the burnt area of her hand in the heat of a candle for a little while. The friend had then explained to him that the normal treatment of using cold water was ineffective, but that the application of heat to a burn meant that it would not blister, and although it did hurt more on the initial application it healed far more quickly and painlessly thereafter. This she demonstrated a little while later when he saw to his amazement that the burned area was not even red and she was experiencing no pain.”

http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/index.html#17homeo

Still no evidence of generational damage due to vaccination … waiting waiting waiting. Put up or shut up.

Ivor seems fairly upset by homosexuality.
” Methinks he doth protest too much”

“When people thought the earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the earth was spherical, they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together.” -Isaac Aimov

Formerly, when religion was strong and science weak, men mistook magic for medicine; now, when science is strong and religion weak, men mistake medicine for magic.

Thomas Szasz, The Second Sin (1973) “Science and Scientism”